BearBackerinLA;842828807 said:

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someone in NBA thinks Baker is potential lottery pick ...

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bbla, it should be pointed that nba scouts & their organizations cannot attend any high school basketball games

if coach wyking can somehow flip jemarl back to cal that would be a remarkable (and surprising) feat

Shocky1;842828798 said:

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what up cal geek, i'll break down the major donors concerns (and future private coalition meeting) tomorrow, it's complicated & centers around mike williams

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Looking forward to it, Shocky

Cal Geek;842828814 said:

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Looking forward to it, Shocky

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no worries, bro

Shocky1;842828811 said:

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bbla, it should be pointed that nba scouts & their organizations cannot attend any high school basketball games

if coach wyking can somehow flip jemarl back to cal that would be a remarkable (and surprising) feat

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Yes, it would be nice to have Baker stick to his commitment because he could turn into a nice Pac-12 player, and a 4-year player. But if he is a lottery pick in a year, then what was Crabbe coming out of HS? The #1 overall pick?

socaliganbear;842828810 said:

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Cal could pay what ncsu or lsu paid easily if it wanted to. It won't right now.

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wrong, there was a significant counteroffer to keep the deal maker

CalEnviroLaw;842828816 said:

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Yes, it would be nice to have Baker stick to his commitment because he could turn into a nice Pac-12 player, and a 4-year player. But if he is a lottery pick in a year, then what was Crabbe coming out of HS? The #1 overall pick?

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Baker is already a nice player. What he becomes is not really knowable. I did not see Steph Curry in high school, but if you compare their offers, Baker was clearly a better high school player. I like that he thinks he will be great. Let's see how he works towards that goal.

Sluggo

What are Baker's reservations about sticking with his commitment and coming to Cal? Based on the schools I've heard he could be down to, I'm not seeing why he thinks those situations would be better for him than Cal.

Shocky1;842828817 said:

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wrong, there was a significant counteroffer to keep the deal maker

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So it can and it will. Cool. Even better than I expected.

socaliganbear;842828822 said:

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So it can and it will. Cool. Even better than I expected.

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can't really blame the dealmaker for taking the $21 million & taking care of his family forever

sluggo_Cal;842828820 said:

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Baker is already a nice player. What he becomes is not really knowable. I did not see Steph Curry in high school, but if you compare their offers, Baker was clearly a better high school player. I like that he thinks he will be great. Let's see how he works towards that goal.

Sluggo

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Fair enough, but watching some of his games, it looked like he will need some time to develop. He is also a bit small for the position at 6'1" ( listed at 6'2"). Brown and Rabb, by comparison, looked close to NBA ready in HS.

tsubamoto2001;842828821 said:

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What are Baker's reservations about sticking with his commitment and coming to Cal? Based on the schools I've heard he could be down to, I'm not seeing why he thinks those situations would be better for him than Cal.

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both baker & sarr do not "want to risk their nba development" on an "unproven" head coach, martin & his track record of putting guys in the league was a key factor in their commitments to cal

Shocky1;842828823 said:

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can't really blame the dealmaker for taking the $21 million & taking care of his family forever

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I certainly don't. I'd do the same.


Don't appreciate the roster situation he left.

Shocky1;842828825 said:

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both baker & sarr do not "want to risk their nba development" on an "unproven" head coach, martin & his track record of putting guys in the league was a key factor in their commitments to cal

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Ironic, because, if anything, Martin probably slowed the development of those guys.

Shocky1;842828825 said:

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both baker & sarr do not "want to risk their nba development" on an "unproven" head coach, martin & his track record of putting guys in the league was a key factor in their commitments to cal

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If that's the case, recruiting for 2018 will be a challenge. Wyking is going to have to go up against some heavy hitters for Brown, Taeshon Cherry, etc. without having coached a game.

So, this coming year is going to be... mediocre at best. Hopefully Jones has a good long term strategy for pulling in talent that includes Jordan Brown and other big time 2018 guys. I really hope he pulls it off and we are looking at a strong tournament run in a few years. I'd love to know which players he's been talking to other than our current players. Wonder if we are going to be active in the transfer market. The quiet on the news front is a bit unsettling from outside.

there are still D1 level players with high academics who we can recruit ... Spencer Freedman (Mater Dei), Riley Battin and Wes Slajchert (both from Oak Park HS) just to name a few.

2018 recruiting is still really up for grabs. Are the names you give here top names? I know of Freedman, but the other two? I would wager that the vast majority of contact that Jones has made so far has been with 2018 guys. That's where he will get the biggest bang for his buck.

Jules Bernard (Windward) near St Bernard HS/LMU where Coach Jones started.

BearBackerinLA;842828832 said:

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there are still D1 level players with high academics who we can recruit ... Spencer Freedman (Mater Dei), Riley Battin and Wes Slajchert (both from Oak Park HS) just to name a few.

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parentswerebears;842828833 said:

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2018 recruiting is still really up for grabs. Are the names you give here top names? I know of Freedman, but the other two? I would wager that the vast majority of contact that Jones has made so far has been with 2018 guys. That's where he will get the biggest bang for his buck.

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Freedman is a solid prospect, but I'd prefer Elijah Hardy. Not sure on his academics, but I feel he's a better prospect.

All I can say is, I hope Jones has been a very busy man the last few weeks, making calls and sending texts. I think as his recruiting game grows and we have some success, that this will end up being a solid hire.

CalEnviroLaw;842828824 said:

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Fair enough, but watching some of his games, it looked like he will need some time to develop. He is also a bit small for the position at 6'1" ( listed at 6'2"). Brown and Rabb, by comparison, looked close to NBA ready in HS.

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No doubt. He is kind of a tweener and not super athletic. But he can shoot and that goes a long ways these days. Similar comments could have been made about Curry or Nash, and also about thousands of guys who did not succeed like they did. So we will see whether he is right about himself. I thought Brown looked ready for the NBA in HS, but I would not say the same thing about Rabb, who still looks not ready and has the same flaws he did then.

Sluggo

Riley Battin is LA Times 1st team All California, Ventura County MVP and soon career scoring leader. 6-10 230 big man who can score inside and outside. Recruited by Stanford, Utah, Colorado, and Northwestern among others. Here he lost Baker and knocked down shot from 3 pt range ...

parentswerebears;842828833 said:

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2018 recruiting is still really up for grabs. Are the names you give here top names? I know of Freedman, but the other two? I would wager that the vast majority of contact that Jones has made so far has been with 2018 guys. That's where he will get the biggest bang for his buck.

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The Slajchert brothers are well known to local sports writers in LA/Ventura County area ...

BearBackerinLA;842828832 said:

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there are still D1 level players with high academics who we can recruit ... Spencer Freedman (Mater Dei), Riley Battin and Wes Slajchert (both from Oak Park HS) just to name a few.

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j mat's collegiate career if officially over & the dealmaker is living large in missouri, the truth can now be told in another cal's monster class exclusive

jordan was raised in a mentally tough family, his dad phil raised his sons like a drill sergeant with no filter...when mathews was the head coach at usf the dons were warming up for the 1st game & he's yelling at his guys during warm ups, "tony, get your ******* head out of your azz, get moving, what's the **** is wrong with you?"...the prez of usf hurriedly rushed over to phil & asked him to tone it down a bit, that sister yolanda was very concerned re: his language

j mat arrived from santa monica high school with a reputation as a shooter but was only a 3 star ranking according to josh gershon (who is the premiere evaluator of high school basketball talent in the nation, the scout top 100 rankings are legit) because of his lack of explosiveness...mathews & martin were 2 strong egos & they clashed from early on...jordan viewed martin as not showcasing his talents in favor of jaylen & his friend jabari while martin viewed mathews as self entitled

the 1st crack is the relationship occurred when martin decided to pass on sharpshooter 3.5 gpa jonah mathews while he focused his recruiting efforts on a couple of low gpa dumb azzs who never cleared cal admissions...the mathews family thought it was hypocritical that martin constantly preached the family environment of the cal basketball program but then passed on jordan's highly talented little bro jonah who eventually signed with usc...as the director of recruiting, it was clear to me that martin should've extended actionable offers to both true student athletes jonah & jordan ford (3.8 gpa now at st marys), both would've committed on the spot & now the roster is lacking in experienced guards as a result

jordan started talking to his small inner circle (he often called out his teammates while ignoring his own gameday flaws which alienated him from many of his teammates) halfway thru last season re: transferring from cal...the final straw was when webster told j mat that he should take less shots which was an absurd comment at the time since jordan's shooting percentages were significantly higher than both t-wall & jaylen

complicating matters was jordan's godfather danny daniels overtly tampering with him to transfer to cal, mark few & his staff have a well deserved slimly reputation among coaches for soliciting players while they are still enrolled at other colleges...this tampering resulted in the cal vs gonzaga home & away series which would've started this season in being "postponed"...when martin spoke with few on the telephone to confirm a couple of the series details he kept waiting for few to acknowledge that he went after mathews & maybe apologize, when that didn't happen the bears vs zags series was done

there was no chance for any reconciliation when a former cal employee told mathews that martin didn't like him, those type of internal conversations (which are often held after emotional games) should always be fully confidential & never repeated but that didn't happen...that former cal employee got his azz deservedly chewed out by coach wyking on the phone after the incident

so j mat took 18 units to graduate from cal in 3 years while also rehabbing from an injury

i used to be kinda down on j-mat but not any more, in fact i've already asked one of his friends on the team to extend an invitation to jordan to be me & taylor's guest at the cal basketball banquet later this month...jordan graduated from cal in 3 years which is a remarkable accomplishement & he played in the final four, good for him...he doesn't have any nba upside according to multiple sources but he's gonna be paid to get buckets somewhere in the world for a couple of years



time for everybody to move forward (with love in their hearts)#:bravo

parentswerebears;842828836 said:

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All I can say is, I hope Jones has been a very busy man the last few weeks, making calls and sending texts. I think as his recruiting game grows and we have some success, that this will end up being a solid hire.

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coach wyking is hurting the bears chances with several prospects (including duke transfer chase jeter) by not returning texts & phone calls with influential las vegas area coaches who are reading out re: the status of former walk on prospect dominic proctor (heading to miami)

emulating the dysfunctional communication skills of mike williams is not gonna be a very successful strategy


****
update: wyking did reach out to las vegas & communicated cal's position, something got lost in translation between them

forward & onward#

socaliganbear;842828826 said:

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I certainly don't. I'd do the same.

Don't appreciate the roster situation he left.

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agreed

Shocky1;842828845 said:

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j mat's collegiate career if officially over & the dealmaker is living large in missouri, the truth can now be told in another cal's monster class exclusive

jordan was raised in a mentally tough family, his dad phil raised his sons like a drill sergeant with no filter...when mathews was the head coach at usf the dons were warming up for the 1st game & he's yelling at his guys during warm ups, "tony, get your ******* head out of your azz, get moving, what's the **** is wrong with you?"...the prez of usf hurriedly rushed over to phil & asked him to tone it down a bit, that sister yolanda was very concerned re: his language

j mat arrived from santa monica high school with a reputation as a shooter but was only a 3 star ranking according to josh gershon (who is the premiere evaluator of high school basketball talent in the nation, the scout top 100 rankings are legit) because of his lack of explosiveness...mathews & martin were 2 strong egos & they clashed from early on...jordan viewed martin as not showcasing his talents in favor of jaylen & his friend jabari while martin viewed mathews as self entitled

the 1st crack is the relationship occurred when martin decided to pass on sharpshooter 3.5 gpa jonah mathews while he focused his recruiting efforts on a couple of low gpa dumb azzs who never cleared cal admissions...the mathews family thought it was hypocritical that martin constantly preached the family environment of the cal basketball program but then passed on jordan's highly talented little bro jonah who eventually signed with usc...as the director of recruiting, it was clear to me that martin should've extended actionable offers to both true student athletes jonah & jordan ford (3.8 gpa now at st marys), both would've committed on the spot & now the roster is lacking in experienced guards as a result

jordan started talking to his small inner circle (he often called out his teammates while ignoring his own gameday flaws which alienated him from many of his teammates) halfway thru last season re: transferring from cal...the final straw was when webster told j mat that he should take less shots which was an absurd comment at the time since jordan's shooting percentages were significantly higher than both t-wall & jaylen

complicating matters was jordan's godfather danny daniels overtly tampering with him to transfer to cal, mark few & his staff have a well deserved slimly reputation among coaches for soliciting players while they are still enrolled at other colleges...this tampering resulted in the cal vs gonzaga home & away series which would've started this season in being "postponed"...when martin spoke with few on the telephone to confirm a couple of the series details he kept waiting for few to acknowledge that he went after mathews & maybe apologize, when that didn't happen the bears vs zags series was done

there was no chance for any reconciliation when a former cal employee told mathews that martin didn't like him, those type of internal conversations (which are often held after emotional games) should always be fully confidential & never repeated but that didn't happen...that former cal employee got his azz deservedly chewed out by coach wyking on the phone after the incident

so j mat took 18 units to graduate from cal in 3 years while also rehabbing from an injury

i used to be kinda down on j-mat but not any more, in fact i've already asked one of his friends on the team to extend an invitation to jordan to be me & taylor's guest at the cal basketball banquet later this month...jordan graduated from cal in 3 years which is a remarkable accomplishement & he played in the final four, good for him...he doesn't have any nba upside according to multiple sources but he's gonna be paid to get buckets somewhere in the world for a couple of years



time for everybody to move forward (with love in their hearts)#:bravo

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OK. But I hope it was not at all about him not starting, because Brown and Bird needed to be in the starting lineup.

CalEnviroLaw;842828849 said:

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OK. But I hope it was not at all about him not starting, because Brown and Bird needed to be in the starting lineup.

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j mat privately viewed not starting as a slap in the face, he also wanted more designed shooting plays (like that could happen on a martin coached team) & when webster told him he should take less shots that message was (understandably) not well received

Shocky1;842828823 said:

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can't really blame the dealmaker for taking the $21 million & taking care of his family forever

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There is perhaps nothing more emblematic of the massive changes in the world since John Wooden retired than the fact that he worked for a salary in the mid-thirty-thousands per annum basically 'til his retirement.

There are a lot of provisos to which one can point in that connection, including that he lived in a house in Brentwood that is now probably worth several million dollars.

But, again, keeping in mind that it took him about 16 years of coaching in Westwood to reach the dominant level to which he eventually rose; and that's a lot of growth, learning and development (and, again, persistence).

And I think (especially with Mark Few's example) that is actually possible here. The important thread will be the spirit of the program. Does it look and feel like it is heading in the right direction through each barrier and all the ups and downs?

I think that the kind of equity in the college basketball world that could be achievable by us getting our guys, who are the elite-skill and athletic level guys who value what this University and community has to offer, derives from the explosive growth of the popularity of the sport, which has produced so incredibly much talent heading into college, and so much of it at a very high level, that, even correcting for the likely majority of guys who have no interest in what Cal has to offer as a life experience, there are still a lot of high-basketball guys who do have such interest.

SO, WHAT THE PROGRAM NEEDS NOW, assuming confidence, experience, skill, personal character of the coaching staff (and nobody's ever perfect, and, as Gilda Radner said, "It's always something", real life being what it is) IS CONTINUITY, PERSISTENCE, STABILITY (NOT OF RESULT/LEVEL) BUT OF RISING QUALITIES UP AND DOWN THE LINE. and it's doable.

mikecohen;842828857 said:

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...But, again, keeping in mind that it took {Wooden} about 16 years of coaching in Westwood to reach the dominant level to which he eventually rose; and that's a lot of growth, learning and development (and, again, persistence).

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Well yes, that and Sam Gilbert.

Shocky1;842828847 said:

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coach wyking is hurting the bears chances with several prospects (including duke transfer chase jeter) by not returning texts & phone calls with influential las vegas area coaches who are reading out re: the status of former walk on prospect dominic proctor (heading to miami)

emulating the dysfunctional communication skills of mike williams is not gonna be a very successful strategy

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To me, this is perhaps the most disturbing post of Shocky's that I've ever seen -- not just because the criticism of Wyking is so biting, but because Shocky seems to have no compunction about calling Wyking out on it, which does not seem to me to be the best way of correcting a problem, but, to the contrary, seems like it's main real-world function is to undercut Wyking (to what end I cannot imagine).

It, also disturbingly, seems to express either the lack of possibility, or the lack of effort (or, god forbid, maybe even desire - I don't know which of the three is worse) to get the word to Wyking to help him out.

It looks to me like an early manifestation of the kind of troubles, on a personal level, among all sorts of groups, public and private, the ability to deal with which is the highest skill a coach can have (and which skill Steve Kerr seems to have more than perhaps anybody else in the country).

So, if Wyking can deal with that, it would be a big deal. NB: I recall it was particularly insensitive criticism from alumni and donors which finally drove Wooden out of coaching.

mikecohen;842828860 said:

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To me, this is perhaps the most disturbing post of Shocky's that I've ever seen -- not just because the criticism of Wyking is so biting, but because Shocky seems to have no compunction about calling Wyking out on it, which does not seem to me to be the best way of correcting a problem, but, to the contrary, seems like it's main real-world function is to undercut Wyking (to what end I cannot imagine).

It, also disturbingly, seems to express either the lack of possibility, or the lack of effort (or, god forbid, maybe even desire - I don't know which of the three is worse) to get the word to Wyking to help him out.

It looks to me like an early manifestation of the kind of troubles, on a personal level, among all sorts of groups, public and private, the ability to deal with which is the highest skill a coach can have (and which skill Steve Kerr seems to have more than perhaps anybody else in the country).

So, if Wyking can deal with that, it would be a big deal. NB: I recall it was particularly insensitive criticism from alumni and donors which finally drove Wooden out of coaching.

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MC, I cannot fathom why you would make anything of Shocky's post, other than that it shows our narcissist to be a first class a-hole.

Shocky1;842828847 said:

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coach wyking is hurting the bears chances with several prospects (including duke transfer chase jeter) by not returning texts & phone calls with influential las vegas area coaches who are reading out re: the status of former walk on prospect dominic proctor (heading to miami)

emulating the dysfunctional communication skills of mike williams is not gonna be a very successful strategy

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A damaging post, if recruits and parents read these. Shocky, you don't seem onboard with Jones.

89Bear;842828870 said:

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A damaging post, if recruits and parents read these. Shocky, you don't seem onboard with Jones.

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still a big fan of coach wyking but if he doesn't return texts & phone calls of walk on prospects, recruits & their aau/high school coaches it will eventually be damaging to cal basketball recruiting & limit the upward trajectory of his career

transparency of communication (disregard nobody)#