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Potential Men's Basketball Coaching Candidates

March 12, 2023
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With the historically unsuccessful Mark Fox era over at Cal, let's take a look at some potential replacement candidates in this critical juncture of Cal basketball.

But before we begin, the profound level of futility of not just the Mark Fox era but also the preceding two years of comparable lack of success from Wyking Jones needs to be examined to understand just how big a hole AD Jim Knowlton and the athletic department needs to figure out a way to dig itself out of.

Following the relatively successful 3-year tenure of Cuonzo Martin, who went 62-39 overall and

Former Cal HC Cuonzo Martin

29-25 in conference before departing to Missouri with a substantial raise that more than doubled his Cal contract, prior AD Mike WIlliams made a critical error in hiring Martin assistant Wyking Jones, who had no head coaching experience. The results were even worse than the gloomiest of sceptics could have imagined, with a pair of last-place finishes and an overall record of 16-47 overall and just 5-31 in conference.

Veteran coach Mark Fox, who had had a modest level of success took over and fared little better in his 4-year tenure at Cal, going just 38-67 overall and 17-61 in conference.

Fortunately in this day of portal transfers and NIL, if a program like Cal that has something

Former Cal HC Mark Fox

beyond futility to offer under the right leadership and framework, including a robust NIL program, the right coach and a few key transfer additions can dramatically change the fortunes of a program without having to suffer through a painfully slow rebuild project.

There are some non-negotiable traits this go-round that are crucial to picking the right person to lead what is not a particularly easy turnaround of a Cal program that’s been down six years now: A strong recruiter, a dynamic personality, high character, problem solver vs. a complainer, an inclusive approach (former players, donors, press, fans input considered), a proven head coach and teacher, a builder/change agent type and energetic.

With that in mind, here are some candidates that Cal can, will or possibly should consider:

Potential primary candidates:

Joe Pasternak UCSB head coach, age 41

Pasternack currently holds a record of 132–52 (.713) and 70–30 (.700) in Big West conference play in six seasons in Santa Barbara. The Gauchos tied for 1st in conference this season with a 15-5 record and 27-7 overall, also winning the Big West conference tourney. The Gauchos earned a 14th seed in the NCAA tournament, facing No. 3 seed Baylor in the first round of the South Region on Friday He has experience as an assistant at Cal and Arizona, where he was their lead recruiter, which could be viewed as a strong positive with the elite players he helped bring in

UCSB HC Joe Pasternack

or potentially a negative if he was personally involved in any of their recruiting violations when he was on staff under Sean Miller. He also helped engineer a turnaround at his first head coaching job at New Orleans so he also has experience digging out of holes. UCSB had also gone 25-36 in the two seasons prior to Pasternack’s arrival. He has strong west coast ties and is known as a strong recruiter.

Darian DeVries Drake head coach, age 47

DeVries currently holds a record of 122–47 (.722) and 63–29 (.685) in Missouri Valley conference play in 5 seasons at Drake.  Drake is currently 27-7 and finished 2nd in conference with a 15-5 record. Drake earned the No. 12 seed in the Midwest Region and will face No. 5 Miami in Albany, NY. DeVries was twice voted conference Coach of the Year and

Drake HC Darian DeVries

has a 1-1 record in NCAA tourney play. Prior to his arrival, Drake went just 23-40 before he engineered a quick turnaround. Combined with his time as an assistant at Creighton, he has a reputation as a strong recruiter and as a dynamic young coach who comes from a good coaching tree, though he does not appear to have particularly strong west coast ties.

Leon Rice, Boise State head coach, age 59

Rice currently holds a record of 267–153 (.636) and 141–88 (.616) in conference play at BSU. They went 13-5 in Mountain

Boise State HC Leon Rice

West play this season,  and 23-8 overall. Rice was twice named conference Coach of the Year and won two regular season conference and one conference tournament championship in his 14 seasons at BSU. He has significant coaching experience also serving as an assistant at Oregon and Gonzaga, though his age might be a bit less attractive.

Brian Dutcher, San Diego State head coach, age 63

Dutcher currently holds a record of 144–46 (.757) overall and 81–25 (.764) in conference play as head coach at SDSU. SDSU

Boise State HC Brian Dutcher

went 15-3 this season, winning the Mountain West conference title and Mountain West conference tourney. SDSU earned a No. 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament, facing 12th-seeded College of Charleston. Dutcher was a longtime assistant head coach for 9 years at Michigan and 18 years at SDSU under highly-successful head coach Brian Fisher. He’s won 3 conference championships and 2 conference championship tournaments in his 5 seasons with the Aztecs. Dutcher has strong west coast ties and a good recruiting reputation though his age may be seen by some as a drawback.

Mark Pope, BYU head coach, age 50

Pope currently holds a record at BYU of  85–40 (.680) overall and 39–21 (.650) in conference in his 4 seasons at BYU. They went 7-9 in conference this season and 17-15 overall, tying for fifth in the West Coast Conference. The Cougars went to the NCAA tourney in 2020-21 after finishing 20-7

BYU HC Mark Pope

and 10-3, 2nd in conference and to the NIT quarterfinals the next season. Dutcher also was an assistant at Wake Forest and Georgia as well as a player for 6 years in the NBA with Denver, Milwaukee and Indiana. He played for Washington and was the captain of Kentucky’s national championship team in 1996.

Next let’s take a look at several potential targets who some might see as a higher risk/higher reward option for various reasons.

Ryan Odom, Utah State head coach, age 48

Odom holds a record at Utah State of 41–23 (.641)overall and 20–15 (.571) in conference play at Utah State in his two seasons there, currently 23-7 and 12-6 in Mountain West Conference play,

Montana State HC Ryan Odom
​​​​​

finishing 2nd behind San Diego State and tied with Boise State. Prior to Utah State, Odom turned around an awful UMBC (University of Maryland, Baltimore County) who had gone 11-51 in the 2 seasons prior to his arrival to a first-season 21-13 record and 97-60 in 5 seasons. He was also an assistant at Virginia Tech, South Florida, Furman, UNC-Ashville and Charlotte.

Danny Sprinkle, Montana State, age 45

Sprinkle holds a record of 81–42 (.659) 49–23 (.681) at Montana State in Big Sky play, going 25–9 overall and 15–3 in conference this season, finishing 2nd in the regular season and earning a second straight NCAA tourney appearance with a Big Sky conference tournament championship this season. The Bobcats will face No. Kansas State on Friday in the opening round of the tournament in Greensboro, North Carolina. Sprinkle was named the Big Sky Coach of the Year this season. He took over a program that went just 28-46 in the two seasons before he arrived so he’s no stranger to big turnarounds. He's recruited on the west coast as an assistant at Cal State Northridge and Fullerton State and played collegiately at Montana State in the 90s.

Todd Simon, Southern Utah head coach, age 42

Simon holds a record at Southern Utah of 117-105  overall and 65-54 in conference play at Southern Utah in his 2 seasons there. They finished 20-11 overall currently and 12-6 in WAC Conference play. His teams have finished 64-27 in the last 3 seasons. Interestingly, Simon was part of the founding staff of Findlay Prep in Las Vegas and coached former Cal star Jorge Gutierrez in high school. He was also an assistant head coach and interim head coach at UNLV.

Stan Johnson, Loyola Marymount head coach, age 43

Johnson holds a record at LMU of 43–39 (.524) overall and 19–24 (.442) in WCC conference play at

LMU HC Stan Johnson

LMU in his 3 seasons there. They finished this season at 19-12 overall and 9-7 in conference play this season, finishing 4th. Before LMU, Johnson was an assistant at Marquette, ASU, Drake and Utah. He took over a Lions program that went 31-33 prior to his arrival.

Shantay Legans, Portland head coach, age 41

Legans holds a record at Portand of 32–33 (.492) overall and 12–18 (.400) in WCC conference play in his 2 seasons there. They finished this season 13-18 overall and 5-11 in conference play, finishing 8th. He took over a program that had gone just 15-38 the 2 seasons before his arrival. Legans went 39-14 in his final two seasons at Eastern

Portland HC Shantay Leggans

Washington before taking the Portland job. Legans played point guard at Cal from 1999 to 2002 before transferring to Fresno State.

Tim Miles, San Jose State head coach, age 56

Miles holds a record of 27–35 (.435) overall and 11–25 (.306) at San Jose State in Mountain West play in his 2 seasons there. They finished this season 20-12 overall and 10-8 in MWC play after struggling his first season, taking over a Spartans program that

San Jose State HC Tim Miles

went just 20-93 in the 4 prior seasons. Prior to SJS, Miles went 116–114 (.504) in 7 seasons at Nebraska and 71-88 at Colorado State.

Grant McCasland, North Texas head coach, age 46

MacCasland holds a record of 129–65 (.663) overall at North Texas and 71–36 (.664) in Conference USA play in his 6 seasons with the Mean Green. They finished the regular season 26-7 overall and 16-4 in C-USA, finishing second. He took over a North Texas program that has gone just 20-42 prior to his arrival, engineering a nice turnaround. His coaching experience at Baylor gave him bigger recruiting exposure and MacCasland also played at Baylor in the 90s.

Rodney Terry, Texas interim head coach, age 54

Terry holds a record of 17-7 overall at Texas and 12-6 in Big-12 conference play since taking over as interim coach after previous head coach Chris Beard was suspended then fired by the

Texas interim HC Rodney Terry

Longhorns. After knocking off No. 1 seed Kansas in the conference tourney, the Longhorns earned the No. 2 seed in the Midwest Region against No. 15 seed Colgate in Des Moines, Iowa on Thursday. Terry got his head coaching start at Fresno State in 2011, taking a few years before turning around the program and winning 20+ games his last three seasons with the Bulldogs. He then took over at UTEP, going 37–48 (.435) overall and 19–33 (.365) in C-USA play in three seasons before moving over to Texas.

Mark Madsen, Utah Valley head coach, age 47

Madsen holds a record of 65–49 (.570) overall at Utah Valley and 38–25 (.528) in WAC conference play since taking over 4 years ago. Utah Valley went 23–7 overall and 14–3 in conference play, winning the WAC conference championship.

Utah Valley HC Mark Madsen.

The former Stanford power forward had a 9-year NBA career with the Timberwolves and Lakers and spent the preceding years as an assistant, most recently with the Lakers for 4 seasons before taking over at Utah Valley.

 

Amir Abdur-Rahim, Kennesaw State, age 43

Abdur-Rahim holds a record of 45–73 (.381) overall and 24–41 (.369) in ASUN conference, though after three tough seasons to start his coaching career taking over a program that had gone just 16-46 in the two prior seasons, the younger brother of former Cal star forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim had a breakthrough season this year, going 26–8 overall and 15–3 in conference, winning the conference this season and earning them a No. 14 seed in the Midwest bracket and will take on No. 3 seed Xavier Friday. Prior to his first head coaching job, Abdur-Rahim was an assistant at Georgia, Texas A&M and College of Charleston.

The next category of coaches are likely not available due to various reasons, including jobs that currently could be considered better opportunities, higher salaries that perhaps couldn’t be matched, buyouts that would be impossible to cover and other various factors.

Dennis Gates, Missouri head coach, age 43

Gates holds a record of 24–8 (.750) overall and 11–7 (.611) in SEC play in his first season after taking over for former Cal head coach Cuonzo Martin after the Tigers stagnated in his final

Missouri HC Dennis Gates

seasons there. The Tigers earned a 7th seed in the 2023 NCAA tourney where they’ll face 10th-seeded Utah State in the first round, playing as part of the South regional in Sacramento.  Gates got his start as a head coach at Cleveland State, going 50–40 (.556) overall and 38–21 (.644) in Horizon League play after taking over a program that had gone just 40-89 in the four seasons prior to his arrival. However Gates has a prohibitive buyout that would make it very difficult to afford him even if he wanted to come to Cal. Gates played for the Bears from 1998 to 2002 and was an assistant at Cal when he got his start in coaching as well as at Northern Illinois, Nevada and Florida State before taking over at Cleveland State.

Jamie Dixon, TCU head coach, age 53

Dixon holds a record of 138–95 (.592) overall and 51–73 (.411) in Big 12 play and 21-12 overall and 9-9 in Big 12 play this season, earning 6th seed in the 2023 NCAA tournament, facing the winner of the First Four matchup between Arizona State and Nevada. The winner of that matchup will be the 11th seed. Dixon guided the Horned Frogs to the NCAA tourney last season as well, reaching the round of 32. Dixon took over a TCU team that had gone 30-36 in the two seasons prior to taking over after posting an impressive 328–123 (.727) overall and 143–81 (.638) ACC record at Pitt before making the move to TCU. Dixon however was extended to 2028, making his buyout prohibitive.

Todd Golden, Florida head coach, age 37

Golden holds a record of 16–16 at Florida overall and 9–9 in SEC play since taking over the Gators program this season. He parlayed a record of 57–36 (.613) overall at USF and 23–22 (.511) in conference play to the Florida job. But with 5 years and a 15 million buyout, Golden is not a likely addition.

Chris Beard, former Texas head coach, age 50

Golden posted a record at his most recent stop at Texas of 29–13 (.690) overall and 10–8 (.556) in Big 12 conference play before being dismissed for accusations of physical violence with his fiancee that were later retracted by her. Prior to his brief stint at Texas, Beard went 112–55 (.671) overall and 49–40 (.551) in Big 12 conference play, going to the NCAA finals, the Great 8 and round of 32 in three of his four seasons there. Talk is heating up about Ole Miss making a strong pitch for him and even though the allegations were withdrawn against him, he could be a tricky hire at Cal.

Related:

Cal Makes Change In Men's Basketball Leadership - Fox Gone

Discussion from...

Potential Men's Basketball Coaching Candidates

74,745 Views | 361 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Pittstop
badger
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In reply to BearGoggles • 6:14p, 3/22/23
That is a fair question. I did not "send" my child to Cal. I was against it. However it is their life, not mine. The choice was theirs.
I am commenting because I would love for Cal to have success on the field. I am simply attempting to present a view about the current student experience that many are not aware of. Cal today is not what Cal was for many of the alumni on this board.
I hear what current students have to say about being a Cal student. Many on this board have made comments about the failed leadership in the AD and the general administration. My comments are meant to emphasize that failed leadership.
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HateRed
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6:41p, 3/22/23
My godson just graduated from CAL. He said he would never turn down that experience. He was accepted to UCLA as well. Turned that down. CAL is what you make it. I know many students at UCLA and their experiences are similar to those of students at CAL. It is what you make it. I hear from my godson and his friends that CAL is very rigorous and they were, at first, not prepared for that rigor.
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ducky23
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In reply to badger • 7:18p, 3/22/23
badger said:
That is a fair question. I did not "send" my child to Cal. I was against it. However it is their life, not mine. The choice was theirs.
I am commenting because I would love for Cal to have success on the field. I am simply attempting to present a view about the current student experience that many are not aware of. Cal today is not what Cal was for many of the alumni on this board.
I hear what current students have to say about being a Cal student. Many on this board have made comments about the failed leadership in the AD and the general administration. My comments are meant to emphasize that failed leadership.


I get it. You prefer a small school experience. Cool! Good for you.

Some want something different. I didn't learn a ******* thing at Cal. But I did learn how to think and I learned a lot about how the actual world works. And I learned even more from the amazing people I was surrounded by. Lessons I found much more valuable than anything I could've learned in a classroom.

And somehow I managed to graduate from a pretty damn good law school.

Everyone is different. Everyone wants different things. Why is this so hard for you to get?
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Big C
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In reply to calumnus • 9:24p, 3/22/23
calumnus said:
stu said:
BearGoggles said:
Of course it was a discussion, but if I pooped on one of the potential schools, that would be a pretty strong influence...
With my daughter, if one of her peers said something negative about a school that was a strong influence. If one of her peers had never heard of a school it was no longer under consideration.


Right? My daughter was offered an unsolicited scholarship to Tufts, but it was not one of the schools her hyper-competitive classmates (Mission San Jose in Fremont) had heard of, and the name "like tufts of hair?" people laughed at. I tried to convince her it was a great school (it would have been a really good fit) and we should at least fly to Boston to look, but the need to have the school approved by her peers was too much.

Cal was her dream school and she loved hanging out in Berkeley with her friends. She ended up getting into UCSD on appeal and as many of her classmates were going there she was happy. Instead of a lifelong love of the Bears (who she grew up rooting for, going to all the games) she has a lifelong love of surfing.


This. For both the academic crowd and the athletic prospects, one of the biggest selection factors is "peer awe" when they tell everybody where they're going to college.
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ducky23
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In reply to Big C • 10:44p, 3/22/23
Big C said:
calumnus said:
stu said:
BearGoggles said:
Of course it was a discussion, but if I pooped on one of the potential schools, that would be a pretty strong influence...
With my daughter, if one of her peers said something negative about a school that was a strong influence. If one of her peers had never heard of a school it was no longer under consideration.


Right? My daughter was offered an unsolicited scholarship to Tufts, but it was not one of the schools her hyper-competitive classmates (Mission San Jose in Fremont) had heard of, and the name "like tufts of hair?" people laughed at. I tried to convince her it was a great school (it would have been a really good fit) and we should at least fly to Boston to look, but the need to have the school approved by her peers was too much.

Cal was her dream school and she loved hanging out in Berkeley with her friends. She ended up getting into UCSD on appeal and as many of her classmates were going there she was happy. Instead of a lifelong love of the Bears (who she grew up rooting for, going to all the games) she has a lifelong love of surfing.


This. For both the academic crowd and the athletic prospects, one of the biggest selection factors is "peer awe" when they tell everybody where they're going to college.


Agreed. I think a huge problem right now is that kids are (whether because of "peer awe" or what have you) are only going to the "highest rated" school rather than the best fit.

Thus you do get a ton of kids (as badger talks about) at Berkeley who probably would've been better off at a smaller/private school.

So it's not really that Berkeley has changed. The type of students at Berkeley has changed.

I wish kids would put a little more thought about whether they should just go to the most prestigious school possible or whether it'd be better for them in the long run to go to a school that's actually a better personal fit. And I wish cal would do a better job admitting kids who actually want to be there. Because I'd wager at least 30% (if not more) of the current student body doesn't like cal. And they are just taking a spot of some kid who would truly appreciate the Berkeley experience.

But with the ultra competitive landscape we're in now, it just is what it is I suppose.
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MoragaBear
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11:21p, 3/22/23
Staff
My boys both ended up at Cal like their mom and me. One just graduated and one's a junior. They weighed their choices and decided Cal was the best option and they've both done well there. Minor complaints here or there but overall it's been a good experience for them both.
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BeachedBear
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In reply to MoragaBear • 5:42a, 3/23/23
MoragaBear said:
My boys both ended up at Cal like their mom and me. One just graduated and one's a junior. They weighed their choices and decided Cal was the best option and they've both done well there. Minor complaints here or there but overall it's been a good experience for them both.
And they also wanted be invited home for Thanksgiving ,right
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MoragaBear
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In reply to BeachedBear • 9:47a, 3/23/23
Staff
BeachedBear said:
MoragaBear said:
My boys both ended up at Cal like their mom and me. One just graduated and one's a junior. They weighed their choices and decided Cal was the best option and they've both done well there. Minor complaints here or there but overall it's been a good experience for them both.
And they also wanted be invited home for Thanksgiving ,right
Of course!
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udaman1
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9:53a, 3/23/23
I've got two boys at Cal right now. They are loving it (more than I did when I was there, honestly). They are having completely different experiences. One is in the band, one skateboards at lower Sproul everyday. I've audited 2 complete lower div science courses (recorded lectures) that they've taken. I don't remember ever having a professor as interesting and engaging as David Presti (Neurobio). His class on drugs and the brain was fascinating. S*** I want a do-over at Cal.
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Cal8285
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In reply to SFCityBear • 10:20a, 3/23/23
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.
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parentswerebears
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In reply to Cal8285 • 11:07a, 3/23/23
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


I agree big time. Worst coach at Cal. Bilked the university out of millions of dollars.
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sonofabear51
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11:28a, 3/23/23
Along with the individual masquerading as an Athletic Director.
Start Slowly and taper off
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Econ141
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In reply to Cal8285 • 11:41a, 3/23/23
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.

Knowlton is doing the bilking and wasting of money from the uni.
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Cabin14
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In reply to Econ141 • 11:44a, 3/23/23
Econ141 said:
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.

Knowlton is doing the bilking and wasting of money from the uni.
Knowlton is worse than Bockrath. I'll die on this hill.
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Cal8285
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In reply to Econ141 • 11:51a, 3/23/23
Econ141 said:
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.

Knowlton is doing the bilking and wasting of money from the uni.
Even if it were just incompetence, and he did what he should have done and failed, and doing what any of us would have done, getting the paycheck for the job offered him, he won and we lost. He got the money and we got his incompetence.

But he didn't do all the things the job requires. The failure to do things like even try to build the relationships necessary to be a good recruiter, to even try to support and build up the fan base, in my book, that is bilking the university. And that isn't what any of us would have done, I hope most of us would have actually tried to do all the things that doing a good job requires, even if we failed.

As for Knowlton, I fear he is doing well at the things he was hired to do, and poorly at the things that the fans want him to do.
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BeachedBear
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11:56a, 3/23/23
All of the bilking and hazing of Fox is warranted, but I am so emotionally burnt by the last four years, that I'm going with SFCity on this one and trying to let it go.

I have complained about Fox as much as anyone, but it was purely about his coaching and what he failed to do. I've never met him and bear no ill will to him as a person. It seems best to move on.

Knowlton however, I have some issues with. The fact that he is still around makes him fair game. To recap the last four seasons:

Year 1:
JK: Thanks for inviting me to your tailgate Beached. Aren't you happy we replaced Jones with Fox?
BB: That part is good, but I'm not getting a good vibe about Fox - he has experience, but seems a bit out of touch. I hope you keep him on a short leash.
JK: I think he's a great guy and doing a great jon. Give him time, I'm sure this will work out great.

Year 2:
JK: Hi Beached, this is one of my assistants "Bob", he's much more familiar with basketball and spent lots of time watching practices for both Jones and Fox.
BB: Ooookaaaaay. So Bob what were practices like?
Bob: Jones was a real mess. Fox is better. But not as good as other coaches I've seen.
BB: Jim, that's not good in year 2. Unless Fox makes some significant changes right now, this program is going to tank!

Year 3:
BB: HI Bob, where's Jim
Bob: Mr Knowlton doesn't like discussing basketball with you. He's hiding behind your Cocktail bar.
BB: Well remind him that unless he wakes up and takes action, he's going to lose my support.
Bob: Uh, I think he got that message. But he thinks Fox has some great players and is going to turn it around.

Year 4:
BB: Uh - who are you?
Sam: I'm Sam, Bob's replacement. So, you didn't renew your 30 year chairbacks and donation.
BB: Yup. Jimi should have fired Fox last year. The fact that he's still around is criminal.
Sam: Yeah - a bunch of us were thinking the same thing, but most of us have left Cal. I'm leaving in two weeks - bye.


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calbearinamaze
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In reply to BeachedBear • 12:04p, 3/23/23
BeachedBear said:



Year 3:
BB: HI Bob, where's Jim
Bob: Mr Knowlton doesn't like discussing basketball with you. He's hiding behind your Cocktail bar.
BB: Well remind him that unless he wakes up and takes action, he's going to lose my support.
Bob: Uh, I think he got that message. But he thinks Fox has some great players and is going to turn it around.

Year 4:
BB: Uh - who are you?
Sam: I'm Sam, Bob's replacement. So, you didn't renew your 30 year chairbacks and donation.
BB: Yup. Jimi should have fired Fox last year. The fact that he's still around is criminal.
Sam: Yeah - a bunch of us were thinking the same thing, but most of us have left Cal. I'm leaving in two weeks - bye.


****
Sad but...........FUNNY
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
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tequila4kapp
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12:06p, 3/23/23
Fox refused to do interviews unless questions were submitted in advance.
Knowlton allowed that behavior to persist, as if it was in anyway normal and acceptable.
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bluesaxe
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In reply to Econ141 • 12:06p, 3/23/23
Econ141 said:
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.

Knowlton is doing the bilking and wasting of money from the uni.
I don't know about you but I have a bit more pride in my work than that.
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concernedparent
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In reply to Cal8285 • 12:07p, 3/23/23
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.
I'm sure the same community college comment was made in jest, but this post couldn't be starred enough. He didn't just fail in W and Ls. He abdicated all of his responsibilities as a college basketball coach. Basically zero donor, fan, student engagement. A no-show on the AAU circuit/west coast high school basketball scene, preferring instead to go for lightly recruited and raw international players. Terrible player development. Maybe 1-2 guys on each year's roster made significant improvement from year to year. Atrocious roster management. Fox basically ran off our best players every year.
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parentswerebears
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In reply to bluesaxe • 12:10p, 3/23/23
bluesaxe said:
Econ141 said:
Cal8285 said:
SFCityBear said:
calumnus said:
Cal_79 said:
BearSD said:
socaltownie said:
AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
Where Abdur-Rahim started his college playing career is not scary at all. And must you continue to ridicule Mark Fox, now that he has been fired, to everyone's relief? Kicking a guy when he is down? You've spent at least 4 years trashing this guy on a daily basis. You won. We won. Let him go, please. You are much better than that. You are very good at analyzing styles of play, games, and metrics. . . .
We didn't win. Mark Fox won. He got paid a very nice salary for four years and got a very nice buy out, in exchange for destroying the Cal basketball program.

I would put it down to incompetence, except part of the problem is that he refused to do a lot of the important parts of the job. Those parts of the job don't have to do with x's and o's of coaching, but recruiting is a big part of the job, and he refused to do many of the things necessary to be an effective recruiter in the Pac-12, not to mention doing anything to support and build up the fan base. So it isn't just incompetence, it is something else, whether foolish stubbornness, laziness, arrogance that he doesn't need to do the things that all competent coaches know need to be done as part of the job, I don't know.

But WE LOST. HE WON.

If you read a lot of threads, you'll see trashing of a lot of old Cal figures going on. Argue that Jim Knowlton is the worst thing that has ever happened to Cal athletics and people start raising Bob Bockrath and trashing him. People are still trashing Mike Williams for hiring Wyking Jones, and justifiably so. Hang out on the football boards, and man, we'll trash Keith Gilbertson or Tom Holmoe or Andy Buh, or a lot of others, and Mark Fox deserves trashing WAY more than a lot of these people.

If the Cal basketball program and I both survive another 30 years, I'll be in my 90's and I'm sure I'll trash Mark Fox on occasion. It is my hope that 30 years from now, the only real debate about the worst Cal basketball coaches in history will involve Fox and Jones, and there will not be any serious candidates in the future.

The biggest reason why the Cal basketball program might not survive if the right hire isn't made now is four years of Mark Fox, who got paid handsomely to put the program in the tank and turn off almost all those who, until Mark Fox, supported the program for their entire adult lives. If the Cal basketball program does survive, it is because Mark Fox put the program in such an incredibly horrible place that the few remaining supporters and some old supporters mobilized to help revive the program.

I agree that it is irrelevant that AAR started his college playing career at the same community college as Fox. But I won't stop trashing Fox any more than I'll stop trashing Gilbertson, and I'm sure many others feel the same. And please, don't say we won. If you gave me the choice between being in the shoes of Fox today or in the shoes of the Cal basketball program, it is an easy choice. I'll take Fox's riches and retire happy, as opposed to being in the miserable depths hoping for a miracle revival. He won. We lost, big time.


Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.

Knowlton is doing the bilking and wasting of money from the uni.
I don't know about you but I have a bit more pride in my work than that.


I have to agree.
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stu
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In reply to Econ141 • 12:21p, 3/23/23
Econ141 said:
Remember that Fox did what any of us what have done. Stayed on to get that far paycheck for a job offered to him.
I wouldn't have applied for a job I knew I couldn't or wouldn't do.

If I applied in good faith then discovered I couldn't or wouldn't do the job then I'd negotiate an early exit.

One reason I'm not rich.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to concernedparent • 12:25p, 3/23/23
The only error in your post was the word "basically"
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Cabin14
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 12:35p, 3/23/23
tequila4kapp said:
Fox refused to do interviews unless questions were submitted in advance.
Knowlton allowed that behavior to persist, as if it was in anyway normal and acceptable.
Fox was horrid…his assistants were below average coaches, poor recruiters and did nothing but collect paychecks. Fox should have been fired prior to the '22 season, but, Knowlton…Fox should have been fired in December, but, Knowlton…Fox should have been fired after the blowout loss at home on January 22 to Oregon St…but, Knowlton. In all likelihood, Knowlton was the ONLY P5 AD that would have allowed Fox to finish out the season…anyone else would have appointed Marty Wilson (who had HC experience) as interim HC to see if a change could spark something. It would have allowed Cal to cast a wide net and get feelers out there. In allowing Fox to continue, Knowlton killed the brand a little bit more each day.

Jim Knowlton's reputation is well known in the NCAA community - it is not good…he is unprepared and lacks the necessary experience, which makes sense because this is a second career for him. Plus, working at Army, RPI and Air Force after a military career in NO way prepared him for the challenges he would face at Cal….they are night and day different from anything he has ever had to deal with. There is a ceiling on the Cal revenue sports until he is gone. Our only hope is the McKeever investigation turns something up and it costs him his job…maybe we get lucky and he nails this hire…my fingers are crossed…there are plenty of good choices he could make, and a couple of bad ones…hope he makes a good choice.

*****UPDATE****
Just saw on Twitter that Cal is launching a formal investigation into Jim and Jenny Simon-O'Neill over the McKeever firing….interesting…

Odd time to allow Jim to make this hire….
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stu
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In reply to Cabin14 • 1:18p, 3/23/23
Cabin14 said:
*****UPDATE****
Just saw on Twitter that Cal is launching a formal investigation into Jim and Jenny Simon-O'Neill over the McKeever firing….interesting…
East Bay Times story
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udaman1
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In reply to stu • 1:22p, 3/23/23
Welp, sounds like we have everything we need on JK. Show him the door.
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CalLifer
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In reply to stu • 1:24p, 3/23/23
stu said:
Cabin14 said:
*****UPDATE****
Just saw on Twitter that Cal is launching a formal investigation into Jim and Jenny Simon-O'Neill over the McKeever firing….interesting…
East Bay Times story




I wonder what Christ's response has been?
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socaltownie
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1:32p, 3/23/23
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
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BC Calfan
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In reply to socaltownie • 1:37p, 3/23/23
socaltownie said:
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
....or its a good thing that he might be gone and replaced by a competent AD? It's not like they would want the job because of Knowlton to any degree.
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bluesaxe
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In reply to socaltownie • 1:40p, 3/23/23
socaltownie said:
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
You might not like the pool of coaches who would take it, but no one is bringing Fox back.

Besides, Cal investigations take years and who really knows if their boss will be around next year anyway.
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MoragaBear
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In reply to socaltownie • 1:41p, 3/23/23
Staff
socaltownie said:
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
Highly doubtful that would be the case with almost any of the finalists.
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JimSox
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In reply to MoragaBear • 1:44p, 3/23/23
MoragaBear said:
socaltownie said:
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
Highly doubtful that would be the case with almost any of the finalists.


And they are??
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stu
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In reply to MoragaBear • 1:49p, 3/23/23
MoragaBear said:
Highly doubtful that would be the case with almost any of the finalists.
Can you tell us the number of finalists?
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BearGoggles
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In reply to JimSox • 1:51p, 3/23/23
JimSox said:
MoragaBear said:
socaltownie said:
We are going to be forced to bring fox back.

What a ficking ****show. I mean this is horrible. No one is going to accept the mbb job because you simply do not know who your boss will be.
Highly doubtful that would be the case with almost any of the finalists.


And they are??
Listed and discussed on the insider board. Membership has its privileges..
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Jeff82
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1:56p, 3/23/23
My hope at this point is that it has been communicated to all the candidates that major donors are really driving this process, not Knowlton, and therefore his status is not something they have to worry about. Frankly, the bar that their starting with post-Fox is so low, I doubt that the idea of an AD change affecting what happens with any of the coaches is even an issue.
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