Prevents? No. Reduces? Yes.Cal89 said:
There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread.
I think this will be my last response in this portion of the thread. If the bolded is what you want to prioritize, I'm not sure anything anyone of us says is going to have an impact. I'll just say that no matter what the death certificate says, you only need to look at excess mortality figures for the US to see that the number of deaths during the pandemic are some multiple larger than the 750k that have officially been attributed to COVID. Maybe that's just random bad luck that the pandemic and the excess morality figures would align so neatly. But I definitely believe that the level of death and misery brought on by today's pandemic should have mandated a WWII or bubonic plague level of mobilization and response.Cal89 said:It's quite enlightening to look at such figures for other countries, including those that were more Draconian in their responses, to those that did next to nothing. Very enlightening. The virus, one way or another, is running its course...CalLifer said:I guess this (bolded part) confuses me. As of two days ago, the death toll in the US is 750K (and excess mortality probably means it is more). It is also true that without extreme measures (long but not complete lockdowns, school closures, etc) and the introduction of a vaccine in record time, the death count would have been significantly higher. 2020 was the first year since right after WWII that > 1% of the US population died. I guess this feels like it should be that level of alarm and that level of mobilization.Cal89 said:Agreed, it's somewhat mixed. I can share other studies, believe me. It does seem it might help with the spread, more so in the weeks just after the jab/s. Again, nothing conclusive as of yet, as I stated.CalLifer said:One interesting note. In the study that said vaccines were effective in reducing the spread:Cal89 said:Appreciate the follow-up. But then there is this:CalLifer said:As of more than a couple weeks ago, there is evidence your statement is at least misleading (being vaccinated does make you less likely to spread the virus):Cal89 said:There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread. The vaccines are to protect oneself.bearister said:
"I (vaxed) don't choose to impose upon others, respect unique situations and choices we have with our bodies, as I have consistently."
If a person is not vaxxed and moving amongst the population unmasked, and without social distancing, then it is that person who is doing the "imposing" on both his fellow man and healthcare workers at the hospital.
People are free to make "choices with their own bodies," including pouring gas on themselves and flicking da Bic….so long as they don't put any structures or other people in danger.
The problem is that the type of person who is vax resistant, often does not view it as a civic duty to keep his fellow man safe, and thus they want to hang out with the general population and not deprive themselves. In other words, they want the whole enchilada.
For those parents who don't want their kids vaxxed: that is your absolute right. Home school them and shut the f@uck up. They will learn a lot from you and grow up to be real smart like you are.
The two most careless people I know were the first in line to get vaxed, then vaxed again actually. They were shopping when most of us were were ordering groceries online. They were seen in Christmas photos with neighbors, with no masks, that type nonsense. They both got the virus at some point, not surprisingly... Idiots.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
So the vaccines are both to protect yourself and others.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
The vaccine manufactures and CDC stated the intended purpose of the vaccines, as funnily described above (lollipop), was to prevent getting really sick and dying... Darn good reason!
Protecting others? Again, nothing conclusive, and if so, it would certainly be a very welcome side benefit.
Yet, this misinformation creates more division...In the study that said they weren't:Quote:
British scientists at the University of Oxford examined national records of nearly 150,000 contacts that were traced from roughly 100,000 initial cases. The samples included people who were fully or partially vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or the AstraZeneca vaccines, as well as people who were unvaccinated. The researchers then looked at how the vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection with either the alpha variant or the highly contagious delta variant.
Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated.Further, even the latter study acknowledges that the vaccine was effective at reducing the spread of the alpha variant. So at the time when the vaccines were first made available (when the alpha variant was still mostly dominant here), it was still true they helped others as well.Quote:
Researchers examined 621 symptomatic participants in the United Kingdom over a year.
And even with this, the point is still valid that we could have reached herd immunity if basically everyone who was eligible had gotten the vaccine. Delta is still around because we have enough of the pop that is still unvaccinated, leading to breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.
Being a "My body, my choice" supporter, I remain true to that position here. Again, if this were bubonic plague like, I can see that position taking a backseat in such a dire scenario.
I wear a mask when around others, regardless of anyone's vax status because the evidence shows we all can be carriers.
I encourage folks to read-up on the current positions of other countries with respect to vaccines. They are quite enlightening and compelling. I had previously mentioned the Scandinavian nations, as an example.
The vaccine is doing what it was designed to do, and quite well, but only for a few months it seems. I currently have zero interest in a booster, but maybe I will at a later time, for various reasons...
Being someone who was following this virus long before most here even heard of it, I tend to think we lost people long before we were even aware or had the capability to flag them as COVID deaths. I have family and friends in Taiwan, most especially students who I taught English at hospitals decades ago, who still work in healthcare and at at very high levels. They had boots on the ground in China, and they knew something serious was happening, but being suppressed in 2019. Before retirement, one of colleagues was located in Wuhan. What she explained was horrific. Who knows how many died as a result of this virus. We also know that here in the States the opposite was true at times, that people who died in auto accidents and in other such incidents, if they were found to have COVID, it was provided as a reason for death. There were financial incentives for doing so and that impacted the numbers upward, in a multitude of ways. The CDC confirmed such. I have kids to pick-up from school, but such links exist, with CDC personnel quoted... And, not surprisingly, there were political reasons too, and there exists many accounts indicating such.
The vast, vast majority of deaths were those much later in years, and especially those with noteworthy health issues. The nursing home negligence, and that's being generous, certainly comes-to-mind, and was beyond tragic. It's very clear COVID expedited such deaths. Of course there were more deaths last year, and if not mistaken, maybe even more so this year. The virus itself though is nothing remotely Malthusian, bubonic-like.
I have just one friend not vaccinated. He's younger than me at 45, strong and fit with zero health issues. Various metrics and COVID risk calculators have him at like 0.002% and 0.04% risk of death and hospitalization, respectively. I support his decision. I'm similar to him score-wise, but chose to get vaccinated, for personal and family reasons being a deciding factor. I have never been more sick in the last few years as I was after the Moderna jabs. I guess that's a good thing though, who knows... There's the unknown.
If that's indeed correct, yes, reduce, for a period of time. We have seen too much already where what was once believed to be true was later learned or leaked to be otherwise.sycasey said:Prevents? No. Reduces? Yes.Cal89 said:
There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/
I mean, it stands to reason that vaccines that reduce severity of disease would also reduce transmission by at least some amount. I don't think that is really in dispute, and the bulk of the evidence seems to support that idea. The question is how much.Cal89 said:If that's indeed correct, yes, reduce, for a period of time. We have seen too much already where what was once believed to be true was later learned or leaked to be otherwise.sycasey said:Prevents? No. Reduces? Yes.Cal89 said:
There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/
The Director of the CDC stated, not so long ago, I believe Aug or Sep, that the vaccines do very little to nothing with respect to transmission. Given that the vaccines were not created and advertised to us with that in-mind, it's not surprising that such assertions are met with skepticism. We have a media that has been caught flat-out lying, including about this virus, with an ends justify the means mentality.
B.A. Bearacus said:
Love Aaron Rodgers. At the same time I find it embarrassing, shameful, and pitiful that he isn't vaccinated. My fandom took a hit today.
Checked on whether Packers QB Aaron Rodgers was in violation of COVID-19 protocols by talking to the media unmasked. Was referred back to rules that unvaccinated players must be masked at all times inside team facilities—which includes press conferences.
— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) November 3, 2021
So the answer is yes.
And teams have had to work around this. Some hold press availability outside to facilitate it for unvaccinated guys. The Packers have actually put other unvaccinated players on Zoom with the media, to adhere to the rules. Bigger question here is how the league could've missed it.
— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) November 3, 2021
Diminish, no. I said it was tragic, especially where it didn't need to be.CalLifer said:I think this will be my last response in this portion of the thread. If the bolded is what you want to prioritize, I'm not sure anything anyone of us says is going to have an impact. I'll just say that no matter what the death certificate says, you only need to look at excess mortality figures for the US to see that the number of deaths during the pandemic are some multiple larger than the 750k that have officially been attributed to COVID. Maybe that's just random bad luck that the pandemic and the excess morality figures would align so neatly. But I definitely believe that the level of death and misery brought on by today's pandemic should have mandated a WWII or bubonic plague level of mobilization and response.Cal89 said:It's quite enlightening to look at such figures for other countries, including those that were more Draconian in their responses, to those that did next to nothing. Very enlightening. The virus, one way or another, is running its course...CalLifer said:I guess this (bolded part) confuses me. As of two days ago, the death toll in the US is 750K (and excess mortality probably means it is more). It is also true that without extreme measures (long but not complete lockdowns, school closures, etc) and the introduction of a vaccine in record time, the death count would have been significantly higher. 2020 was the first year since right after WWII that > 1% of the US population died. I guess this feels like it should be that level of alarm and that level of mobilization.Cal89 said:Agreed, it's somewhat mixed. I can share other studies, believe me. It does seem it might help with the spread, more so in the weeks just after the jab/s. Again, nothing conclusive as of yet, as I stated.CalLifer said:One interesting note. In the study that said vaccines were effective in reducing the spread:Cal89 said:Appreciate the follow-up. But then there is this:CalLifer said:As of more than a couple weeks ago, there is evidence your statement is at least misleading (being vaccinated does make you less likely to spread the virus):Cal89 said:There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread. The vaccines are to protect oneself.bearister said:
"I (vaxed) don't choose to impose upon others, respect unique situations and choices we have with our bodies, as I have consistently."
If a person is not vaxxed and moving amongst the population unmasked, and without social distancing, then it is that person who is doing the "imposing" on both his fellow man and healthcare workers at the hospital.
People are free to make "choices with their own bodies," including pouring gas on themselves and flicking da Bic….so long as they don't put any structures or other people in danger.
The problem is that the type of person who is vax resistant, often does not view it as a civic duty to keep his fellow man safe, and thus they want to hang out with the general population and not deprive themselves. In other words, they want the whole enchilada.
For those parents who don't want their kids vaxxed: that is your absolute right. Home school them and shut the f@uck up. They will learn a lot from you and grow up to be real smart like you are.
The two most careless people I know were the first in line to get vaxed, then vaxed again actually. They were shopping when most of us were were ordering groceries online. They were seen in Christmas photos with neighbors, with no masks, that type nonsense. They both got the virus at some point, not surprisingly... Idiots.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
So the vaccines are both to protect yourself and others.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study
The vaccine manufactures and CDC stated the intended purpose of the vaccines, as funnily described above (lollipop), was to prevent getting really sick and dying... Darn good reason!
Protecting others? Again, nothing conclusive, and if so, it would certainly be a very welcome side benefit.
Yet, this misinformation creates more division...In the study that said they weren't:Quote:
British scientists at the University of Oxford examined national records of nearly 150,000 contacts that were traced from roughly 100,000 initial cases. The samples included people who were fully or partially vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or the AstraZeneca vaccines, as well as people who were unvaccinated. The researchers then looked at how the vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection with either the alpha variant or the highly contagious delta variant.
Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated.Further, even the latter study acknowledges that the vaccine was effective at reducing the spread of the alpha variant. So at the time when the vaccines were first made available (when the alpha variant was still mostly dominant here), it was still true they helped others as well.Quote:
Researchers examined 621 symptomatic participants in the United Kingdom over a year.
And even with this, the point is still valid that we could have reached herd immunity if basically everyone who was eligible had gotten the vaccine. Delta is still around because we have enough of the pop that is still unvaccinated, leading to breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.
Being a "My body, my choice" supporter, I remain true to that position here. Again, if this were bubonic plague like, I can see that position taking a backseat in such a dire scenario.
I wear a mask when around others, regardless of anyone's vax status because the evidence shows we all can be carriers.
I encourage folks to read-up on the current positions of other countries with respect to vaccines. They are quite enlightening and compelling. I had previously mentioned the Scandinavian nations, as an example.
The vaccine is doing what it was designed to do, and quite well, but only for a few months it seems. I currently have zero interest in a booster, but maybe I will at a later time, for various reasons...
Being someone who was following this virus long before most here even heard of it, I tend to think we lost people long before we were even aware or had the capability to flag them as COVID deaths. I have family and friends in Taiwan, most especially students who I taught English at hospitals decades ago, who still work in healthcare and at at very high levels. They had boots on the ground in China, and they knew something serious was happening, but being suppressed in 2019. Before retirement, one of colleagues was located in Wuhan. What she explained was horrific. Who knows how many died as a result of this virus. We also know that here in the States the opposite was true at times, that people who died in auto accidents and in other such incidents, if they were found to have COVID, it was provided as a reason for death. There were financial incentives for doing so and that impacted the numbers upward, in a multitude of ways. The CDC confirmed such. I have kids to pick-up from school, but such links exist, with CDC personnel quoted... And, not surprisingly, there were political reasons too, and there exists many accounts indicating such.
The vast, vast majority of deaths were those much later in years, and especially those with noteworthy health issues. The nursing home negligence, and that's being generous, certainly comes-to-mind, and was beyond tragic. It's very clear COVID expedited such deaths. Of course there were more deaths last year, and if not mistaken, maybe even more so this year. The virus itself though is nothing remotely Malthusian, bubonic-like.
I have just one friend not vaccinated. He's younger than me at 45, strong and fit with zero health issues. Various metrics and COVID risk calculators have him at like 0.002% and 0.04% risk of death and hospitalization, respectively. I support his decision. I'm similar to him score-wise, but chose to get vaccinated, for personal and family reasons being a deciding factor. I have never been more sick in the last few years as I was after the Moderna jabs. I guess that's a good thing though, who knows... There's the unknown.
I also am not one to diminish the impact of the number of deaths because the vast majority were among the old and/or those with other health conditions. Those all were still someone's mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter who still had months/years to spend with loved ones, or impart wisdom, or just be around but for COVID. I am not heartened or mollified that some large percentage were old or had other health issues.
I love you 71Bear but we are going to have to agree to disagree. You are expressing an opinion "nut case" and not stating a fact. Do you express this same opinion every time you see the drug addicted homeless folks in urban areas of California?71Bear said:To the contrary, he has tested positive. Therefore, he is damn stupid. Just another nut case who thinks he is invincible. I hope he continues to introduce his college as "Butte Community College" before games because he is an embarrassment to the University of California….NVBear78 said:Actually Rodgers is very bright. Sounds like he has had Covid before and studies out of Israel show greater immunity from previous Covid than from vaccines.71Bear said:The 17th game is not a random selection of games. It is a strict scheduling that coincidentally matched GB and KC.okaydo said:
Patrick Mahomes took the league by storm in 2018.
So the NFL couldn't wait until Mahomes and Rodgers faced off, which was supposed to happen in 2019.
But Mahomes was out for that game. And the Packers were not expected to play the Chiefs until 2023.
So the NFL created a 17-game schedule. And they devoted the 17th game to the long-awaited Mahomes-Rodgers matchup.
That game was supposed to be played Sunday.
Anyways, this is something that 2021 Rodgers would do -- not 2016 Rodgers.#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers is unvaccinated, per me and @MikeGarafolo. That’s why he’s out for Sunday vs. the #Chiefs.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021Note that when Aaron Rodgers talked about the vaccine when asked in late August, he said he's been "immunized."https://t.co/W6zm8UdZNC
— RandBall (@RandBall) November 3, 2021#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers was quoted as saying he’s been “immunized.” By the letter of the law in the NFL, that does not equal vaccinated. https://t.co/g5xyjDZ6uL
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021
As for Rodgers, he may be a talented athlete but he is sure is stupid…..
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.sycasey said:I mean, it stands to reason that vaccines that reduce severity of disease would also reduce transmission by at least some amount. I don't think that is really in dispute, and the bulk of the evidence seems to support that idea. The question is how much.Cal89 said:If that's indeed correct, yes, reduce, for a period of time. We have seen too much already where what was once believed to be true was later learned or leaked to be otherwise.sycasey said:Prevents? No. Reduces? Yes.Cal89 said:
There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/
The Director of the CDC stated, not so long ago, I believe Aug or Sep, that the vaccines do very little to nothing with respect to transmission. Given that the vaccines were not created and advertised to us with that in-mind, it's not surprising that such assertions are met with skepticism. We have a media that has been caught flat-out lying, including about this virus, with an ends justify the means mentality.
NVBear78 said:
While I am vaccinated I respect others right to their own decision. I am very proud of Aaron Rodgers and his affiliation with the University of California. He is is his own man.........perfect representative of the University of California I know and love though not so much the one size fits all culture warriors of thi8s current era...
Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
All those things you mentioned, stop the virus from spreading. This vax doesn't. Also, if you had polio and recovered, you had immunity from polio. Getting the vaccine could kill you.DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
MinotStateBeav said:All those things you mentioned, stop the virus from spreading. This vax doesn't. Also, if you had polio and recovered, you had immunity from polio. Getting the vaccine could kill you.DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
I am proud that Aaron Rodgers went to Cal and was a football star for us. He is a smart guy. This latest might move the needle, but not much. Nobody's perfect. It is generally accepted that people who get the COVID vaccine get infected and transmit the virus less, especially in the first six months. 
The U.S. is still losing more than 1.000 people a day from COVID because of our low vaccination rates. Very unfortunate. So much misinformation in just a few sentences. I will just address the bolded part. Almost everything we do could kill us. Oxygen can be deadly but we need it to survive, as can water and food. Thousands of Americans die each year from choking on food. I don't recommend people stop eating.MinotStateBeav said:All those things you mentioned, stop the virus from spreading. This vax doesn't. Also, if you had polio and recovered, you had immunity from polio. Getting the vaccine could kill you.DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
Judging from his press appearances, Aaron has the aptitude to sit in an MCB class and get it. If I could do it, he certainly could lol. Perhaps if he had heard about mRNA vaccines in 2005 he wouldn't be so hesitant, if that's what his issue is. Of course he found more productive things to do with his talents but he's plenty capable. The bigger question is who he's associating himself with and taking advise from. On that front, he seems to have some questionable habits.bluengoldmilk said:CaliforniaEternal said:
What a total idiot. If only Aaron had taken the MCB 150 Immunology course with me he would have learned what being immunized actually means and not get suckered into all that quackery. We were at Cal at the same time. Too bad he took off a year early, that extra education would have come in handy.
As a MCB major and physician, I doubt that Aaron "street smart" Rodgers could have handled a real science course, even in MCB (*nods to chem/physics/math/engineering majors*). Maybe IB, if that's still a thing.
DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
Nope, nada.DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
We also don't know how long it lasts, or to what degree. There is evidence that the mRNA vaccines "train" your system to more easily produce antibodies upon reinfection, even if the initial antibodies created by vaccination will wane.Cal89 said:I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.sycasey said:I mean, it stands to reason that vaccines that reduce severity of disease would also reduce transmission by at least some amount. I don't think that is really in dispute, and the bulk of the evidence seems to support that idea. The question is how much.Cal89 said:If that's indeed correct, yes, reduce, for a period of time. We have seen too much already where what was once believed to be true was later learned or leaked to be otherwise.sycasey said:Prevents? No. Reduces? Yes.Cal89 said:
There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/
The Director of the CDC stated, not so long ago, I believe Aug or Sep, that the vaccines do very little to nothing with respect to transmission. Given that the vaccines were not created and advertised to us with that in-mind, it's not surprising that such assertions are met with skepticism. We have a media that has been caught flat-out lying, including about this virus, with an ends justify the means mentality.
So we'll see how much that affects transmission over time. Again, if the disease remains less severe, most likely transmission is too.Quote:
"Waning immunity happens to some extent with all vaccines, but that does not mean that the vaccines stop working completely," David Hirschwerk, MD, an infectious disease specialist with Northwell Health in Manhasset, New York, told Healthline.
"But their effectiveness often reduces as times moves along," he continued.
He emphasized that COVID-19 vaccines remain "very effective" at preventing severe illness well beyond 6 months.
"But they become steadily less effective at preventing any degree of infection."
Eric Ascher, a family medicine physician at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York, pointed out that reduced efficacy doesn't mean you're suddenly unprotected.
"Because certain immune cells still remember how to protect you from severe disease," he explained. "Vaccines prevent against severe disease and hospitalization."
"We see with vaccination, those with breakthrough infections still do very well much better than those without vaccination and also have a more difficult time spreading disease," he continued.
No, all of them REDUCE the possibility of the virus spreading. It's herd immunity that prevents outbreaks from happening at all. Hence the need to vaccinate a large percentage of the population.MinotStateBeav said:All those things you mentioned, stop the virus from spreading. This vax doesn't. Also, if you had polio and recovered, you had immunity from polio. Getting the vaccine could kill you.DiabloWags said:Cal89 said:
I can live with that possibility sycasey. IMO, if so, it's pretty modest and not so lasting of a side benefit. For those who have concerns about what it might do to their bodies, even many years down-the-road, and that boosters would be needed, possibly twice or even 3x a year, I can appreciate the trepidation.
I wonder if these same people had the same concerns when it came time to getting their kids immunized for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis in order to gain entrance into public school in all 50 states?
The Aaron Rodgers news is on brand, according to @BillSimmons:
— Herd w/Colin Cowherd (@TheHerd) November 3, 2021
"To me, he seemed like a classic narcissist the last year. Everything was somebody else's fault. He took no responsibility." pic.twitter.com/zK9uCV932L
One more time: an emergency hater's guide to Aaron Rodgers https://t.co/siYHRnXco7
— Drew Magary (@drewmagary) November 3, 2021
I guess there is zero difference between a pro athlete worth over $100 million and homeless people. Totally equal bases to judge one's decision-making by.NVBear78 said:I love you 71Bear but we are going to have to agree to disagree. You are expressing an opinion "nut case" and not stating a fact. Do you express this same opinion every time you see the drug addicted homeless folks in urban areas of California?71Bear said:To the contrary, he has tested positive. Therefore, he is damn stupid. Just another nut case who thinks he is invincible. I hope he continues to introduce his college as "Butte Community College" before games because he is an embarrassment to the University of California….NVBear78 said:Actually Rodgers is very bright. Sounds like he has had Covid before and studies out of Israel show greater immunity from previous Covid than from vaccines.71Bear said:The 17th game is not a random selection of games. It is a strict scheduling that coincidentally matched GB and KC.okaydo said:
Patrick Mahomes took the league by storm in 2018.
So the NFL couldn't wait until Mahomes and Rodgers faced off, which was supposed to happen in 2019.
But Mahomes was out for that game. And the Packers were not expected to play the Chiefs until 2023.
So the NFL created a 17-game schedule. And they devoted the 17th game to the long-awaited Mahomes-Rodgers matchup.
That game was supposed to be played Sunday.
Anyways, this is something that 2021 Rodgers would do -- not 2016 Rodgers.#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers is unvaccinated, per me and @MikeGarafolo. That’s why he’s out for Sunday vs. the #Chiefs.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021Note that when Aaron Rodgers talked about the vaccine when asked in late August, he said he's been "immunized."https://t.co/W6zm8UdZNC
— RandBall (@RandBall) November 3, 2021#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers was quoted as saying he’s been “immunized.” By the letter of the law in the NFL, that does not equal vaccinated. https://t.co/g5xyjDZ6uL
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021
As for Rodgers, he may be a talented athlete but he is sure is stupid…..
GranadaHillsBear said:
Extremely disappointing of Rodgers. I've been a fan of him and defended him against all criticism, warranted or not. This is completely indefensible. Anti vaxxers are the worst. We can't get back to normal because of these a$$h0les. I was initially happy that he has had a great season but now hope he's suspended the rest of the year. It's one thing to be an anti vaxxer and still be careful. Aaron lied to everyone and put others at risk with his selfish behavior. Done with him
Ummmm..... TMI.Chapman_is_Gone said:
If I only had a dollar for every time I masturbated to COVID discussion on this board...
Yep. We can agree to disagree. His disingenuous behavior, dare I say lying, regarding this issue has moved him squarely in the persona non grata category. If he were truly a "perfect representative" he would have taken the Rolovich approach - I didn't get vaccinated, I am not going to discuss the issue, and I am prepared to address the consequences should the need arise - rather than saying he was "immunized". What the hell does that mean? What a loser…..NVBear78 said:I love you 71Bear but we are going to have to agree to disagree. You are expressing an opinion "nut case" and not stating a fact. Do you express this same opinion every time you see the drug addicted homeless folks in urban areas of California?71Bear said:To the contrary, he has tested positive. Therefore, he is damn stupid. Just another nut case who thinks he is invincible. I hope he continues to introduce his college as "Butte Community College" before games because he is an embarrassment to the University of California….NVBear78 said:Actually Rodgers is very bright. Sounds like he has had Covid before and studies out of Israel show greater immunity from previous Covid than from vaccines.71Bear said:The 17th game is not a random selection of games. It is a strict scheduling that coincidentally matched GB and KC.okaydo said:
Patrick Mahomes took the league by storm in 2018.
So the NFL couldn't wait until Mahomes and Rodgers faced off, which was supposed to happen in 2019.
But Mahomes was out for that game. And the Packers were not expected to play the Chiefs until 2023.
So the NFL created a 17-game schedule. And they devoted the 17th game to the long-awaited Mahomes-Rodgers matchup.
That game was supposed to be played Sunday.
Anyways, this is something that 2021 Rodgers would do -- not 2016 Rodgers.#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers is unvaccinated, per me and @MikeGarafolo. That’s why he’s out for Sunday vs. the #Chiefs.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021Note that when Aaron Rodgers talked about the vaccine when asked in late August, he said he's been "immunized."https://t.co/W6zm8UdZNC
— RandBall (@RandBall) November 3, 2021#Packers QB Aaron Rodgers was quoted as saying he’s been “immunized.” By the letter of the law in the NFL, that does not equal vaccinated. https://t.co/g5xyjDZ6uL
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) November 3, 2021
As for Rodgers, he may be a talented athlete but he is sure is stupid…..
While I am vaccinated I respect others right to their own decision. I am very proud of Aaron Rodgers and his affiliation with the University of California. He is is his own man.........perfect representative of the University of California I know and love though not so much the one size fits all culture warriors of thi8s current era...
CalLifer said:As of more than a couple weeks ago, there is evidence your statement is at least misleading (being vaccinated does make you less likely to spread the virus):Cal89 said:There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread. The vaccines are to protect oneself.bearister said:
"I (vaxed) don't choose to impose upon others, respect unique situations and choices we have with our bodies, as I have consistently."
If a person is not vaxxed and moving amongst the population unmasked, and without social distancing, then it is that person who is doing the "imposing" on both his fellow man and healthcare workers at the hospital.
People are free to make "choices with their own bodies," including pouring gas on themselves and flicking da Bic….so long as they don't put any structures or other people in danger.
The problem is that the type of person who is vax resistant, often does not view it as a civic duty to keep his fellow man safe, and thus they want to hang out with the general population and not deprive themselves. In other words, they want the whole enchilada.
For those parents who don't want their kids vaxxed: that is your absolute right. Home school them and shut the f@uck up. They will learn a lot from you and grow up to be real smart like you are.
The two most careless people I know were the first in line to get vaxed, then vaxed again actually. They were shopping when most of us were were ordering groceries online. They were seen in Christmas photos with neighbors, with no masks, that type nonsense. They both got the virus at some point, not surprisingly... Idiots.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
So the vaccines are both to protect yourself and others.
GivemTheAxe said:CalLifer said:As of more than a couple weeks ago, there is evidence your statement is at least misleading (being vaccinated does make you less likely to spread the virus):Cal89 said:There is no conclusive evidence, none, at least as of couple weeks ago, that being vaxed prevents the spread. The vaccines are to protect oneself.bearister said:
"I (vaxed) don't choose to impose upon others, respect unique situations and choices we have with our bodies, as I have consistently."
If a person is not vaxxed and moving amongst the population unmasked, and without social distancing, then it is that person who is doing the "imposing" on both his fellow man and healthcare workers at the hospital.
People are free to make "choices with their own bodies," including pouring gas on themselves and flicking da Bic….so long as they don't put any structures or other people in danger.
The problem is that the type of person who is vax resistant, often does not view it as a civic duty to keep his fellow man safe, and thus they want to hang out with the general population and not deprive themselves. In other words, they want the whole enchilada.
For those parents who don't want their kids vaxxed: that is your absolute right. Home school them and shut the f@uck up. They will learn a lot from you and grow up to be real smart like you are.
The two most careless people I know were the first in line to get vaxed, then vaxed again actually. They were shopping when most of us were were ordering groceries online. They were seen in Christmas photos with neighbors, with no masks, that type nonsense. They both got the virus at some point, not surprisingly... Idiots.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
So the vaccines are both to protect yourself and others.
I love the argument that vaccines don't prevent the spread of COVID because the disease is still spreading. Those who make such argument ignore the fact that Covid is spreading overwhelming among the UNVACCINATED.
They refuse to be vaccinated because COVID continues to spread. But COVID continues to spread because they and millions like them refuse to get vaccinated.
