15 ? Steelers hmm idk

Jared Goff. Underrated. Depends on definition. But he jumps to mind. There are many https://t.co/8fiYsIY4lB

— Joe Buck (@Buck) November 14, 2023

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

---

100%

Phenomenal young talent right now.

If you look at the Top 30 passing yardage single season records of all time, 1 was a player in his 40s (Brady), 17 were players in their 30s and 12 were players in their 20s. Of the 12 players who were in their 20's when they had a Top 30 season, 10 are by players currently playing.

The Top Career Passer Ratings of All Time:
1. Mahomes *
2. Rodgers*
3. Watson*
4. Wilson*
5. Brees
6. Burrow*
7. Prescott*
8. Cousins*
9. Garoppolo*
10. Brady
11. Room
12. L. Jackson*
13. S. Young
14. Justin Herbert*
15. P. Manning
16. Rivers
17. Warner
18. Ryan
19. Roethlisberger
20. Goff*
21. Allen*
22. Montana
23. Murray*
24. Carr*
25. Tannehill
26. Stafford*
27. Bridgewater*
28. Pennington
29. Luck
30. Schaub

*Currently playing

And that does not include the fact that so many of today's young quarterbacks are also great runners.

Rushing yards per game career
1. L. Jackson*
2. J. Fields*
3. M. Vick
4. J. Hurts*
5. K. Murray*
6. J. Allen*
7. C. Newton
8. C. Kaepernick
9. R. Griffin 3*
10. D. Jones*

calumnus said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

---

100%

Phenomenal young talent right now.

If you look at the Top 30 passing yardage single season records of all time, 1 was a player in his 40s (Brady), 17 were players in their 30s and 12 were players in their 20s. Of the 12 players who were in their 20's when they had a Top 30 season, 10 are by players currently playing.

The Top Career Passer Ratings of All Time:
1. Mahomes *
2. Rodgers*
3. Watson*
4. Wilson*
5. Brees
6. Burrow*
7. Prescott*
8. Cousins*
9. Garoppolo*
10. Brady
11. Room
12. L. Jackson*
13. S. Young
14. Justin Herbert*
15. P. Manning
16. Rivers
17. Warner
18. Ryan
19. Roethlisberger
20. Goff*
21. Allen*
22. Montana
23. Murray*
24. Carr*
25. Tannehill
26. Stafford*
27. Bridgewater*
28. Pennington
29. Luck
30. Schaub

*Currently playing

And that does not include the fact that so many of today's young quarterbacks are also great runners.

Rushing yards per game career
1. L. Jackson*
2. J. Fields*
3. M. Vick
4. J. Hurts*
5. K. Murray*
6. J. Allen*
7. C. Newton
8. C. Kaepernick
9. R. Griffin 3*
10. D. Jones*

---

Yes, although I would caution that it's hard to compare passing stats across eras. For example, each of the top 13 passing seasons of all time by yardage (league-wide) occurred in ... the last 13 seasons. Similarly, each of the top 16 seasons by passer rating has been in the last 16 seasons.

The rule changes and advances in offense (much of them to protect the QB) have made it easier than ever to pass and the data reflects that.

But the relative quality of young QBs vs their older peers is stronger now than it has been in as long as I can remember.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

---

100%

Phenomenal young talent right now.

If you look at the Top 30 passing yardage single season records of all time, 1 was a player in his 40s (Brady), 17 were players in their 30s and 12 were players in their 20s. Of the 12 players who were in their 20's when they had a Top 30 season, 10 are by players currently playing.

The Top Career Passer Ratings of All Time:
1. Mahomes *
2. Rodgers*
3. Watson*
4. Wilson*
5. Brees
6. Burrow*
7. Prescott*
8. Cousins*
9. Garoppolo*
10. Brady
11. Room
12. L. Jackson*
13. S. Young
14. Justin Herbert*
15. P. Manning
16. Rivers
17. Warner
18. Ryan
19. Roethlisberger
20. Goff*
21. Allen*
22. Montana
23. Murray*
24. Carr*
25. Tannehill
26. Stafford*
27. Bridgewater*
28. Pennington
29. Luck
30. Schaub

*Currently playing

And that does not include the fact that so many of today's young quarterbacks are also great runners.

Rushing yards per game career
1. L. Jackson*
2. J. Fields*
3. M. Vick
4. J. Hurts*
5. K. Murray*
6. J. Allen*
7. C. Newton
8. C. Kaepernick
9. R. Griffin 3*
10. D. Jones*

---

Yes, although I would caution that it's hard to compare passing stats across eras. For example, each of the top 13 passing seasons of all time by yardage (league-wide) occurred in ... the last 13 seasons. Similarly, each of the top 16 seasons by passer rating has been in the last 16 seasons.

The rule changes and advances in offense (much of them to protect the QB) have made it easier than ever to pass and the data reflects that.

But the relative quality of young QBs vs their older peers is stronger now than it has been in as long as I can remember.

---

Yes, another way to think of it is this: in the past, most starting NFL quarterbacks were in their 30s. It is not like there are not QBs in their 30s who could be operating in these offenses. This current crop of QBs in their 20s have just beat them all out.

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second contract the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

calumnus said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

---

100%

Phenomenal young talent right now.

If you look at the Top 30 passing yardage single season records of all time, 1 was a player in his 40s (Brady), 17 were players in their 30s and 12 were players in their 20s. Of the 12 players who were in their 20's when they had a Top 30 season, 10 are by players currently playing.

The Top Career Passer Ratings of All Time:
1. Mahomes *
2. Rodgers*
3. Watson*
4. Wilson*
5. Brees
6. Burrow*
7. Prescott*
8. Cousins*
9. Garoppolo*
10. Brady
11. Room
12. L. Jackson*
13. S. Young
14. Justin Herbert*
15. P. Manning
16. Rivers
17. Warner
18. Ryan
19. Roethlisberger
20. Goff*
21. Allen*
22. Montana
23. Murray*
24. Carr*
25. Tannehill
26. Stafford*
27. Bridgewater*
28. Pennington
29. Luck
30. Schaub
...

---

How reliable of an indicator is a list where Garoppolo is ahead of Brady and Montana?

Agree with Sloth's point above.

Yeah that list definitely says F those numbers clearly lol

I hate Fathertime buy jimmy g ? Lol

…in other NFL news:

I was 14 and in da house:

"55 years ago today, viewers missed the Raiders' last-minute victory over the Jets when NBC abruptly cut* to the made-for-TV film, "Heidi," in one of the most infamous moments in sports broadcasting history."
-Yahoo AM



.* Oakland scored two touchdowns in the final minute to win the game 43-32.
*Also in da house for The Play.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calumnus said:

---

22 years old. There are a lot of young QBs in the league right now and they have a lot of talent. Several have already put up better seasons than many of the senior "Hall of Fame" QBs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

---

I tend to agree - I think the NFL QB talent has reloaded and there is more young talent now than there has been in quite some time, if not ever. In no particular order Herbert, Allen, Jackson, Prescott, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Tua, Purdy, Lawrence and Murray all have potential to be multi-time all PROs / HOFers (and some are well on their way). You even have guys like Baker Mayfield and Justin Fields who may be perennial starters. It's pretty unusual to have that deep a crop of really solid QBs. In the past if you had 10 established starters, the position seemed loaded. In 5 years when these guys are ~28-33, the QB play will be phenomenal.

Right now, there are only 2 top 15 QBs over 30 based on passer rating (Cousins and Wilson). There are 7 who are 25 and under.

Look at the "top 15" QBs from 2013 (along with their ages):
Josh McCown - 34
Peyton - 37
Rivers - 32
Cutler - 30
Foles - 24
Drew Brees - 34
Matt Ryan - 28
Kaepernick - 26
Russell Wilson - 25
Cam Newton - 24
Andrew Luck - 24
Tom Brady - 36
Tony Romo - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 30
Fitzpatrick - 31

Wilson is the only one in that under 30 crowd who worked out. I would take the current crop in a heartbeat over that bunch.

How about 20 years ago?
McNair - 30
Peyton - 27
Culpepper - 26
Trent Green - 33
Jake Plummer - 29
Favre - 34
Hasselbeck - 28
Aaron Brooks - 27
Jon Kitna - 31
Brady - 26
Chad Pennington - 27
Brad Johnson - 35
Marc Bulger - 26
Jake Delhomme - 28
Jeff Garcia - 33

I think I've made my point.

---

I mean, it kind of depends on your definition of "worked out." The under-30 group from 2013 had 5/6 QBs make a SB appearance, with Foles and Wilson being winners. That's pretty good in my mind.

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

Cal88 said:

---

Nix is (listed at) 6'2", not all that short, same height as Rodgers and pretty close to the NFL average. I agree about QBs from good programs with good surrounding casts being overrated (see the long string of USC high draft pick QBs), but these guys are standouts by the standards of their own programs.

Also the level of QB talent in the NFL today is relatively mediocre. On a given season, you would typically have 4 or 5 future hall of famer QBs playing in the League, right now I am not sure if there is anyone other than Mahones. I counted around 7 hall of fame QBs playing in the NFL in 1990, and 5 in 2000:

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Brett Favre 1991-2010
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Peyton Manning 1998-2015
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Ken Stabler 1970-1984
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Kurt Warner 1998-2009
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

---

Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, Wilson will likely make the HOF. Allen and Jackson have a good shot.

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

Montana became a starter for the 49ers midway through his second season, in 1980, in his second year in the NFL, age 24. He was a 5th yr Sr at ND. Montana played as a backup his rookie season.

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

How many running quarterbacks have made it past 30 and still be able to play at a high level?

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

How many running quarterbacks have made it past 30 and still be able to play at a high level?

---

Steve Young played until he was 38.

oski003 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Nix is (listed at) 6'2", not all that short, same height as Rodgers and pretty close to the NFL average. I agree about QBs from good programs with good surrounding casts being overrated (see the long string of USC high draft pick QBs), but these guys are standouts by the standards of their own programs.

Also the level of QB talent in the NFL today is relatively mediocre. On a given season, you would typically have 4 or 5 future hall of famer QBs playing in the League, right now I am not sure if there is anyone other than Mahones. I counted around 7 hall of fame QBs playing in the NFL in 1990, and 5 in 2000:

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Brett Favre 1991-2010
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Peyton Manning 1998-2015
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Ken Stabler 1970-1984
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Kurt Warner 1998-2009
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

---

Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, Wilson will likely make the HOF. Allen and Jackson have a good shot.

---

Likely?

Rodgers and Mahomes definitely.

Wilson likely.

Burrows …. Uhhh.

Jared having a bad day at work so far, 3 picks already.\, Detroit down at home to the 3-7 Bears, 20-14 bottom of the 3rd.

Goff making up for his bad start, scoring on his last two drives, converting for 2 in the 2nd one, Lions comeback to lead it 29-26! 26s and 2 TOs left for Chicago to try to tie.

Wow what a comeback by the Lions!

Great game, Lions seal it with the safety! Goff powered through his terrible start for a great 4th qtr comeback win against their rivals.

Lions now 8-2, with a weaker remaining sched and a good path to home field advantage until the NFC championship game (getting ahead of myself here...)

Cal88 said:

---

Goff making up for his bad start, scoring on his last two drives, converting for 2 in the 2nd one, Lions comeback to lead it 29-26! 26s and 2 TOs left for Chicago to try to tie.

---

…and at one point he had a 49 QB Rating deep in that game.

Papi's Home. pic.twitter.com/iC5POdE3Bc

— Detroit Lions (@Lions) September 12, 2021

Or: Maybe!

— Bill Simmons (@BillSimmons) November 19, 2023

Goff is definitely top 10, he has to show he is top 5 or better, and this season is a great opportunity.

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

How many running quarterbacks have made it past 30 and still be able to play at a high level?

---

Steve Young played until he was 38.

---

I thought of Steve too, but Walsh pretty much made him give up being a running quarterback to become a pocket quarterback who could scramble

Cal88 said:

---

Goff is definitely top 10, he has to show he is top 5 or better, and this season is a great opportunity.

---

#RingsonyouBears, Hope they can pull off a miracle season and take the SB.

MSaviolives said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

How many running quarterbacks have made it past 30 and still be able to play at a high level?

---

Steve Young played until he was 38.

---

I thought of Steve too, but Walsh pretty much made him give up being a running quarterback to become a pocket quarterback who could scramble

---

Russell Wilson was considered a running QB coming into the League and turns 35 next week. The current young "running QBs" who are all good passers will probably become even more proficient passers and run less as they age too. Or be replaced by younger guys. We will see.

I do think it is too early to to write off guys that are playing extraordinary football on the theory that they will have careers shortened by injury because they can elude rushers and take off running. Injury is just a reality of playing QB in the NFL and standing in the pocket and taking hits from massive DL and blitzing LBs and safeties is not necessarily "safer."

calumnus said:

---

MSaviolives said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

calumnus said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Sorry, in good conscious, I have to zag this discussion. The current crop of QBs is not good, and we are actually in a lull. Yes, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Burrow, and Herbert are good and young, and Stroud has a lot of promise, but I do not want Lamar Jackson, or Kyler Murray as my QBs of the future as they get hurt too often. Tua was terrible prior to the current coaching staff, brock purdy is decent, but he is definitely enabled by his surrounding roster. Let's look at the number of teams that have a terrible qb situation right now (working geographically east to west):
1. New england
2. Giants
3. Jets
4. Commanders
5. Panthers
6. Titans
7. Browns
8. Colts
9. Bears
10. Packers
11. Vikings
12. Saints
13. Broncos
14. Raiders
15. Rams
16. Steelers (sorry I forgot them)

That is near half the league! The reason why 20 year olds are getting more play than their 30 year counterparts is because teams have learned a cheat code. Get a good but undervalued qb. The QBs are good, but cheap and you can build out an excellent roster while they are cheap. Once you get a good qb on their second QB the rest of the roster has to suffer due to the salary ramifications. The best way to get a good and young qb is through the draft, so teams draft highly rated QBs and play them with the hope they get lightning in a bottle and have a cost effective QB. It's not because they are the best.

---

Joe Montana missed 56 games in a 15 year career due to injury. So by your criterion Montana was not a good QB?

The Niners were as successful as they were both because Montana was great but also because they always had good backup QBs. As Bill Walsh said "The two most important players on a football team are the QB and the backup QB." Montana was a great QB despite getting injured. Lamar Jackson is a great QB. Have you watched him play?

---

Joe Montana was able to play in the playoffs. Jackson has typically either been injured and out by the time the playoffs start, or hurt and unable to perform to his regular season standing. In six years, he's been to the playoffs three times, winning one playoff game (for a total of 4 games played [not an extensive sample size but also not insignificant]). His playoff averages are:

• 225 yards passing on 55.9% and 6.6 yards per attempt
• 3 TD to 5 INT
• Qb rating of 68.3
• 91.5 rushing yards with 13.5 ypc
• 1 TD to 5 Fumbles

Other than the rushing numbers, the rest of his stats are bad. If he were my team's QB I'd be worried about him being able to play well in the postseason. He is like Chris Paul to me, he is a good player and a great regular season player, but you can't count on him when you need him most (the playoffs). If you can't count on them in the playoffs you need to find someone else.

---

Lamar Jackson is 26. Joe Montana first became a starter in the 1981 season. He was 25.

---

How many running quarterbacks have made it past 30 and still be able to play at a high level?

---

Steve Young played until he was 38.

---

I thought of Steve too, but Walsh pretty much made him give up being a running quarterback to become a pocket quarterback who could scramble

---

Russell Wilson was considered a running QB coming into the League and turns 35 next week. The current young "running QBs" who are all good passers will probably become even more proficient passers and run less as they age too. Or be replaced by younger guys. We will see.

I do think it is too early to to write off guys that are playing extraordinary football on the theory that they will have careers shortened by injury because they can elude rushers and take off running. Injury is just a reality of playing QB in the NFL and standing in the pocket and taking hits from massive DL and blitzing LBs and safeties is not necessarily "safer."

---

Ironically back to Steve Young, who retired at the height of his powers because of too many concussions.

The Lions have played the Green Bay Packers 21 times on Thanksgiving Day, which is the most frequent matchup of any team.

Lions Thanksgiving history: Record, stats, highlights playing on holiday


https://clutchpoints.com/lions-thanksgiving-history-record-stats-highlights-playing-on-holiday

NFL on Thanksgiving Day - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_Thanksgiving_Day

Jared Goff is not doing ok

I've got a thanksgiving day parlay to win here kid, let's try hanging onto the ball