Chip Kelly bouncing out of Westwood

9,880 Views | 92 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by calumnus
MrGPAC
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
Whether or not he was liked by the fans were likely low on his list of reasons to want out.

He was apparently given promises that weren't upheld with regard to the universities prioritization of football.
He didn't get the institutional support that he needed to succeed here.
He got kicked off his field so the band could practice.
Culturally the fit was worse than he expected.
Recruiting limitations were harder than he expected (he DID help a lot with the APR scores in the process though)
No certificate program made getting grad transfers a lot harder

I'm sure not being liked didn't help but there were a lot of good reasons why he left. Constantly fighting the administration instead of being supported by it probably played a bigger role.

Hell, a lot of these problems were the things Wilcox demand be fixed for him to stay. These are certaily not problems he has at TCU...
Alkiadt
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MrGPAC said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
Whether or not he was liked by the fans were likely low on his list of reasons to want out.

He was apparently given promises that weren't upheld with regard to the universities prioritization of football.
He didn't get the institutional support that he needed to succeed here.
He got kicked off his field so the band could practice.
Culturally the fit was worse than he expected.
Recruiting limitations were harder than he expected (he DID help a lot with the APR scores in the process though)
No certificate program made getting grad transfers a lot harder

I'm sure not being liked didn't help but there were a lot of good reasons why he left. Constantly fighting the administration instead of being supported by it probably played a bigger role.

Hell, a lot of these problems were the things Wilcox demand be fixed for him to stay. These are certaily not problems he has at TCU...



Spot on.
Cal admin is the problem. It's been that way since the early 1960's.
ducktilldeath
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I can't believe Ohio State was dumb enough to hire a **** OC who can't recruit.
wc22
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
So who was hiring Dykes and paying us a buyout?
wc22
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I am really not seeing anything logical about this Kelly-Dykes parallel. It seems like people who thrive on being angry being dumb... again.
calumnus
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wc22 said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
So who was hiring Dykes and paying us a buyout?


SMU hired him a year later, after being fired by Cal.
oski003
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wc22 said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
So who was hiring Dykes and paying us a buyout?


Someone who would want a national championship game caliber coach of course
Bobodeluxe
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oski003 said:

wc22 said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

MrGPAC said:

Can we please stop pretending the situations with Wilcox interviewing at Oregon were *anything* like Dykes interviewing elsewhere?
You're right. The correct comparison is between Dykes and Chip Kelly. Both wanted out but were not offered head coaching jobs elsewhere. The difference is that Chip chose to take a coordinator position elsewhere instead of squeezing UCLA for every penny remaining on his contract, while Dykes chose to squeeze every penny he could out of Cal.


Dykes knew he was not liked by the fans at Cal and, like Kelly, was looking for other jobs whitch would have meant him paying us, but instead we fired him first which requires us to pay him off. Don't blame Dykes for that, that was our choice (stupid IMO).
So who was hiring Dykes and paying us a buyout?


Someone who would want a national championship game caliber coach of course
Oh yeah? Well , SQUARE JAW!
ducktilldeath
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Strykur said:


He is basically a fat old gummi bear.
Gobears49
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Perhaps UCLA will be so bad that very few people will take that long drive (first and or second longest travel miles from the campus to the home stadium in the U.S) to watch them and so we can offer to replace them in the Big 10. But we need to have a good product on the field this year to show we deserve it.

Seems we doing some good recruiting. We just need to be relatively injury free to have a good record this year, like maybe eight to nine wins. I think it is doable.

I know this will be tough to achieve, as I am siure contracts stand in th way, but a guy can dream.
calumnus
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Gobears49 said:

Perhaps UCLA will be so bad that very few people will take that long drive (first and or second longest travel miles from the campus to the home stadium in the U.S) to watch them and so we can offer to replace them in the Big 10. But we need to have a good product on the field this year to show we deserve it.

Seems we doing some good recruiting. We just need to be relatively injury free to have a good record this year, like maybe eight to nine wins. I think it is doable.

I know this will be tough to achieve, as I am siure contracts stand in th way, but a guy can dream.


We can look at it again when our GORs expire in 2036, assuming Knowlton hasn't killed our program before then,
philly1121
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I doubt the ACC, in its current form, will be around by 2036.
wifeisafurd
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yikes, 247 predicts UCLA finishes second to last the B1G.

BTW, they have Oregon at 11-1 and tied for first place with TOSU. Huskies higher middle tier and SC tied for 3rd

CBMiiQFodHRwczovLzI0N3Nwb3J0cy5jb20vbG9uZ2Zvcm1hcnRpY2xlL2JpZy10ZW4tZm9vdGJhbGwtcHJlZGljdGlvbnMtd2F5LXRvby1lYXJseS1vcmRlci1vZi1maW5pc2gtZmluYWwtcmVjb3Jkcy1mb3ItMjAyNC1zZWFzb24tMjI3NzUyODQzL9IBjQFodHRwczovLzI0N3Nwb3J0cy5jb20vbG9uZ2Zvcm1hcnRpY2xlL2JpZy10ZW4tZm9vdGJhbGwtcHJlZGljdGlvbnMtd2F5LXRvby1lYXJseS1vcmRlci1vZi1maW5pc2gtZmluYWwtcmVjb3Jkcy1mb3ItMjAyNC1zZWFzb24tMjI3NzUyODQzL2FtcC8
bearsandgiants
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philly1121 said:

I doubt the ACC, in its current form, will be around by 2036.


I give humanity in general a 50/50 over that timeframe so not a huge call.
philly1121
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Nah, I think humanity should be around. How many and where is a good guess though.
WalterSobchak
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Generous prediction for UW. Remember it took an injury for Fisch to figure out Fifita is better than de Laura. As good a job as he did in Tuscon, he's still a huge step down from DeBoer.
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dimitrig
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The reality is that the OC job at tOSU is a better gig than the HC job at UCLA (or Cal)

Bobodeluxe
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dimitrig said:


The reality is that the OC job at tOSU is a better gig than the HC job at UCLA (or Cal)


Sixty five years since the last rose bowl appearance, and people are already giving up.
calumnus
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Bobodeluxe said:

dimitrig said:


The reality is that the OC job at tOSU is a better gig than the HC job at UCLA (or Cal)


Sixty five years since the last rose bowl appearance, and people are already giving up.


There is no "next" Rose Bowl for anyone, at least not in the sense that it used to mean "PAC-12 Champ."
91Cal
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calumnus said:

UCLA fans are only mad about Kelly's timing, forcing them to do a late search. Cal fans still defend the timing of Dykes' firing even though it imposed a late search on ourselves, but with a lot less money to spend.

Who was/is defending the timing? As I recall, everyone was PO'd it took so long given his years of wandering eyes…and especially PO'd that it was done so late in the cycle that year!
calumnus
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91Cal said:

calumnus said:

UCLA fans are only mad about Kelly's timing, forcing them to do a late search. Cal fans still defend the timing of Dykes' firing even though it imposed a late search on ourselves, but with a lot less money to spend.

Who was/is defending the timing? As I recall, everyone was PO'd it took so long given his years of wandering eyes…and especially PO'd that it was done so late in the cycle that year!


If instead of firing him when we did, would you wait until the end of the 2017 season? If not, you are defending the timing and only proving my point.

Because however pissed you were about him looking around, he wasn't going anywhere at that point and waiting until the end of the 2017 season would allow you to do a proper search at the beginning of the cycle with $millions more dollars to spend. You might even get lucky and he would get hired by SMU (as he was) saving you even MORE $millions.
91Cal
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calumnus said:

91Cal said:

calumnus said:

UCLA fans are only mad about Kelly's timing, forcing them to do a late search. Cal fans still defend the timing of Dykes' firing even though it imposed a late search on ourselves, but with a lot less money to spend.

Who was/is defending the timing? As I recall, everyone was PO'd it took so long given his years of wandering eyes…and especially PO'd that it was done so late in the cycle that year!


If instead of firing him when we did, would you wait until the end of the 2017 season? If not, you are defending the timing and only proving my point.

Because however pissed you were about him looking around, he wasn't going anywhere at that point and waiting until the end of the 2017 season would allow you to do a proper search at the beginning of the cycle with $millions more dollars to spend. You might even get lucky and he would get hired by SMU (as he was) saving you even MORE $millions.

Easy pal. I'm not defending anything…I recall that the criticism was that it was bungled by the AD period. We have set ourselves up for failure decade after decade and those events and their timing were yet another example. I don't recall anyone defending the timing as optimal. There was no good way out of the situation, but we might have taken the very worst path at the time. TBF Sonny wasn't exactly behaving and performing in a way that made himself attractive to suitors as evidenced by the lack of an offer after so much shopping around.
calumnus
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91Cal said:

calumnus said:

91Cal said:

calumnus said:

UCLA fans are only mad about Kelly's timing, forcing them to do a late search. Cal fans still defend the timing of Dykes' firing even though it imposed a late search on ourselves, but with a lot less money to spend.

Who was/is defending the timing? As I recall, everyone was PO'd it took so long given his years of wandering eyes…and especially PO'd that it was done so late in the cycle that year!


If instead of firing him when we did, would you wait until the end of the 2017 season? If not, you are defending the timing and only proving my point.

Because however pissed you were about him looking around, he wasn't going anywhere at that point and waiting until the end of the 2017 season would allow you to do a proper search at the beginning of the cycle with $millions more dollars to spend. You might even get lucky and he would get hired by SMU (as he was) saving you even MORE $millions.

Easy pal. I'm not defending anything…I recall that the criticism was that it was bungled by the AD period. We have set ourselves up for failure decade after decade and those events and their timing were yet another example. I don't recall anyone defending the timing as optimal. There was no good way out of the situation, but we might have taken the very worst path at the time. TBF Sonny wasn't exactly behaving and performing in a way that made himself attractive to suitors as evidenced by the lack of an offer after so much shopping around.


Yes, Williams bungled it. He actually thought he could fire Dykes for cause which was absurd. Coaches interview for other jobs all the time: Snyder did, Mooch did (both left), Tedford did, Dykes did and Wilcox has. Coaches you want to keep you counter, coaches you want to leave you let leave. Cal fans that claim that Dykes interviewing for Baylor is the only reason they wanted Dykes fired are not being honest (though possibly just with themselves). Honestly, his getting hired by Baylor is what you WANTED if you wanted him gone after the 2016 season,

My analogy with Kelly is it was a school and a coach that were not happy with each other. Results were not what was hoped for. While Kelly quitting late in the cycle put them in a bad position for finding a new coach, at least they didn't have to pay Kelly $millions and in fact he will pay UCLA instead.

Contrast that with Cal where we put ourselves in a bad position for hiring a new coach late in the cycle and paid Dykes $millions to put ourselves in that position. And Dykes landed the SMU job later the same year (2017) in the very next cycle.

If you are going to fire a coach for anything other than cause, you should always do it at the end of the season (though sometimes mid season with an interim is justified) and you should already have some candidates in mind. Sure, you can say you wish Williams had fired Dykes in November, but not having done that, rather than a late January firing and desperate hiring of a candidate no one else wanted, it would have been better to let Dykes coach his recruits in 2017 and encourage him to take the SMU job that he eventually got anyway with a mutual parting of ways and no money exchanged. Then Cal could have done a proper search at the beginning of the same cycle with many more $millions to spend.
 
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