Cal84;459107 said:
>Technology, demographics and natural progression/development have made the bar so much higher than before.
Nah. It's still the same. Berkeley accepts the top 3% of each California HS's graduating class. That's basically the exact same benchmark as existed 20-25 years ago.
Now the argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have higher SAT scores than the top 3% did 20 years ago. True. But that's because today's students have SAT coaches, prep classes and take multiple test sittings to max their score. But intrinsically I think they're the same kids that got into Berkeley 20 years ago.
The argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have higher GPAs than the top 3% did 20 years ago. True. But that's because HSes offer more AP classes which inflate GPAs. But intrinsically I think they're the same kids that got into Berkeley 20 years ago.
The argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have more polished resumes/applications that are filled with extracirricular activities. True. But that's just what kids do now. In my day the HS kids spent their weekends drinking beer. But intrinsically I think today's kids are pretty much the same as the kids that got into Berkeley 20 years ago.
The big difference is that today Berkeley gets a lot more applications than it did 20 years ago. Back in my day if you weren't ranked in the top 10% of your graduating class, you didn't even bother applying to Berkeley. But nowadays, the number of applicants seems to indicate about 20% of California HS seniors are applying to Berkeley (after one takes out those in the top quintile who for whatever reason are just not interested in Berkeley). It's only in that sense that getting into Berkeley is harder. The bar hasn't been raised, there are just more people attempting the jump.
I understand your points, but I respectfully disagree. Let's take a look at each one:
1) "Berkeley accepts the top 3% of each California HS's graduating class."
Problem is that CA pop has grown and as you mentioned, a lot more students are applying. I would also imagine UC Berkeley (Stanford and Harvard), since they have national and global appeal have all seen an increase in out-of-state and out of country applicants. Larger applicant base makes it more competitive if the % stays the same (it might be lower than 3% if more spots are taken by out of state/country) applicants which would also make it more difficult.
2) "Now the argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have higher SAT scores than the top 3% did 20 years ago."
You mention the test prep, etc. Absolutely agree. That's why it's harder/more difficult. I don't know about you, but I would not enjoy my free time at HS going to test prep classes. This makes it harder. You have to do more just to stay even.
3) "The argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have higher GPAs than the top 3% did 20 years ago. True. But that's because HSes offer more AP classes which inflate GPAs."
I have to same argument as point #2. You have to work harder (take more APs) just to stay even and maintain that top 3% ranking.
4) "The argument could be made that today's top 3% of HS students have more polished resumes/applications that are filled with extracirricular activities. True. But that's just what kids do now. In my day the HS kids spent their weekends drinking beer."
Drinking beer is more fun than practicing the violin or piano or being the student body president or volunteering at a homeless shelter. More fun equals less difficult, at least to me.
5) "The bar hasn't been raised, there are just more people attempting the jump."
This is the most important point in my mind. I might agree that the top 3% of CA students are the "same" 20 years ago as they are now BUT it is a lot more work to be the top 3% today than 20 years ago. To me, that bar has increased. The fact that it might be the SAME type of overachievers that might meet or exceed that bar does not exclude that the bar has risen on an absolute basis. You couldn't do the same amount of "work" that you did 20 years ago and expect to get into Cal today.
I have the same argument for football players today. Nowadays, you need to work out a lot more, be on a good diet, be a genetic freak and still have the smarts to understand/anticipate the game. It might still be the "same" top .01% of the population, but they have to work a LOT harder to get to the same place (BCS conference schollie and the NFL).
