Oregon Offense - Gimmicky

18,566 Views | 135 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by 93BearInOregon
SouthBayPhenom
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re: the Oregon/LSU game:

certainly the TO's were a huge contributor; but, I didn't see an Oregon team that was able to run with much effectiveness when it wanted or needed to - LSU was able to be pretty damn stout against the run when the game mattered - and this was the key

don't forget that LSU struggled offensively - they suspended their QB and one of their starting WR's (and maybe some others??) for the game
ppilot
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drunkoski;582741 said:

crossing routes and picks are not the same thing.


goldenjax;582784 said:

exactly, big difference from a rub, and a pick.


Crossing routes are designed to pick of at least one of the defender. Not rub, pick. I am not sure anyone besides Tuinei and maybe the Oregon coaches know the intentions of LT on that play, but there is no question it didn't look good. With that said, the play is a major outlier as I've never seen LT or any Oregon WR make a similar move in the last couple years.
ppilot
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SouthBayPhenom;582817 said:

re: the Oregon/LSU game:

certainly the TO's were a huge contributor; but, I didn't see an Oregon team that was able to run with much effectiveness when it wanted or needed to - LSU was able to be pretty damn stout against the run when the game mattered - and this was the key

don't forget that LSU struggled offensively - they suspended their QB and one of their starting WR's (and maybe some others??) for the game


Even after the Barner fumble, Oregon was able to march back down the field and score so while they weren't able to run effectively the Ducks still moved the ball. LSU didn't get any space until Oregon turned it over 2x in row inside their own 35 yard line. Oregon would probably lose against Washington or Cal if that happened let alone LSU.

As to LSU's offense, most LSU fans were actually happy that Lee was the QB as he can actually thrown the ball. Also people seem to forget that Oregon was missing both Cliff Harris and Kiko Alonso, two of Oregon's best D players
Unit2Sucks
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Canard;582732 said:

You fan base wasn't so whiny when the Bears were a winning team.


What's amazing is that your fan base is still just as whiny as ever now that you're winning games. Your compatriots are doing plenty of whining about the LSU game in this thread.
freshfunk
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Unit2Sucks;582835 said:

What's amazing is that your fan base is still just as whiny as ever now that you're winning games. Your compatriots are doing plenty of whining about the LSU game in this thread.


Seriously.

You would've thought Oregon lost last year's game against Cal considering the amount of b*tching they still do over a couple of dives.

Give me a freaking break. If it's really THAT big of a deal, then Oregon's offense is gimmicky since it's hugely dependent on other teams not flopping. If it doesn't affect their offense, then why the constant b*tching?

I don't care if it's Cal's board, Oregon's board or ESPN. Can Oregon fans stop whining over a couple flops?

The Tuinei pick being intentional is debatable (at best). But at least that's worth debating considering the real, physical injuries it cost (for both players). A dive is nothing in the scheme of things regardless of some arbitrary, figurative interpretation Oregon fans take away from it.

Maybe Oregon fans think it's fun to needle Cal fans over it. Fine, I get it. But really it makes Oregon look bad to the rest of the Pac as a bunch of whiny complainers and takes away from their position as a leader in the conference (figuratively speaking). I'd rather take arrogance of ability ($C) over b*tching over some trivial stuff.

I hate to put it this way but at least Stanfurd fans let their wins speak for themselves.
KoreAmBear
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freshfunk;582844 said:

Seriously.

You would've thought Oregon lost last year's game against Cal considering the amount of b*tching they still do over a couple of dives.

Give me a freaking break. If it's really THAT big of a deal, then Oregon's offense is gimmicky since it's hugely dependent on other teams not flopping. If it doesn't affect their offense, then why the constant b*tching?

I don't care if it's Cal's board, Oregon's board or ESPN. Can Oregon fans stop whining over a couple flops?

The Tuinei pick being intentional is debatable (at best). But at least that's worth debating considering the real, physical injuries it cost (for both players). A dive is nothing in the scheme of things regardless of some arbitrary, figurative interpretation Oregon fans take away from it.

Maybe Oregon fans think it's fun to needle Cal fans over it. Fine, I get it. But really it makes Oregon look bad to the rest of the Pac as a bunch of whiny complainers and takes away from their position as a leader in the conference (figuratively speaking). I'd rather take arrogance of ability ($C) over b*tching over some trivial stuff.

I hate to put it this way but at least Stanfurd fans let their wins speak for themselves.


To be fair, there are not many Stanfurd fans to begin with.
SouthBayPhenom
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ppilot;582822 said:

Even after the Barner fumble, Oregon was able to march back down the field and score so while they weren't able to run effectively the Ducks still moved the ball. LSU didn't get any space until Oregon turned it over 2x in row inside their own 35 yard line. Oregon would probably lose against Washington or Cal if that happened let alone LSU.

As to LSU's offense, most LSU fans were actually happy that Lee was the QB as he can actually thrown the ball. Also people seem to forget that Oregon was missing both Cliff Harris and Kiko Alonso, two of Oregon's best D players


my point was that Oregon wasn't able to get the run game going when it mattered - don't let TO's distract from that fact

LMJ had 54 yards on 18 rushes
Unit2Sucks
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Canard;582893 said:

if they are complaining about anything, it's the mischaracterization of how that game went.


Canard;582897 said:

Let's not forget it was your staff which put the Cal program up for nationwide ridicule. We didn't start the "Cal Diving Team" meme, the Versus announcers did and the bad acting, officially blessed no less, went viral from there.

Your staff tainted your own program's splendid effort from that evening, not Ducks fans.


You're still quacking like the AFLAC duck right now and it sounds like whining to me.

BellottiBold
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GB54;582419 said:

I wanted to quote this in case you went back and deleted it after you finished your drinks in the bar.


I'll stand by it.
Two of those fumbles were the result of a true freshman who wasn't carrying the ball properly, and a third was a stupid mistake from a veteran that should have known better (barner fielding the punt.) At least 2 of the turnovers resulted in immediate scores. We shot ourselves in the foot big time in the game, while gaining decent yards on the ground, and allowing no sacks from that vicious front seven. The standard narrative on this game, that Oregon was just physically dominated for four quarters, is lazy at best.
BellottiBold
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nevermind this post... points made already
Our Domicile
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BellottiBold;582920 said:

...The standard narrative on this game, that Oregon was just physically dominated for four quarters, is lazy at best.



How else does one describe a paltry 95 yards rushing against LSU by the vaunted, high-powered Duck rushing attack besides saying it was "physically dominated for four quarters"?

I'll stick to the standard narrative, thank you.
SouthBayPhenom
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BB - I'm not arguing that the TO's weren't a huge part of the game - they clearly were. but to say you were gaining "decent" yards on the ground just isn't right. Oregon struggled to run the ball - and it wasn't for lack of trying.

Oregon typically runs much better against other teams with lesser defenses - but really struggled against LSU's defense (not just their front 4/7 - but all 11)
ppilot
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SouthBayPhenom;582888 said:

my point was that Oregon wasn't able to get the run game going when it mattered - don't let TO's distract from that fact

LMJ had 54 yards on 18 rushes


You can't ignore TO's, they pretty much predict the outcome of most games.
SouthBayPhenom
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ppilot;582933 said:

You can't ignore TO's, they pretty much predict the outcome of most games.


I'm not ignoring them.

But, with or without TO's, you weren't running the ball effectively at all - particularly when compared to how well you run it against lesser defenses.
SouthBayPhenom
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Oregon's yards per rush this season:

LSU: 3.4
Nevada: 6.3
Missouri St: 12.6
Arizona: 8.8
GoBears58
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diego;582699 said:

I'd be interested in you expanding on both of these points. Yeah their hurry up O doesn't allow the D to sub players, but they don't either. Thats not cheating thats game on.

Cheap shots? I've watched a lot of Duck football and haven't seen an inordinate amount of those sorts of plays (late hits, head hunting) at all. Seriously, after last years game I'd think Cal fans would be the last group to complain about cheating.



Seriously, as if lying down and faking an injury once equates with buying skill position players from Texas... Ironically, the same players that catapult you to the top of the conference...

Try again dufus
ork:
freshfunk
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Canard;582897 said:

Let's not forget it was your staff which put the Cal program up for nationwide ridicule. We didn't start the "Cal Diving Team" meme, the Versus announcers did and the bad acting, officially blessed no less, went viral from there.

Your staff tainted your own program's splendid effort from that evening, not Ducks fans.


:cry:

This was one year ago.

You're still b*tching about it now.

Get a life.
ppilot
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SouthBayPhenom;582942 said:

I'm not ignoring them.

But, with or without TO's, you weren't running the ball effectively at all - particularly when compared to how well you run it against lesser defenses.


I think we are arguing different things. I have no problem admitting Oregon struggled to run against a team that is giving up less than 2 yards per rush. My point is that LSU didn't start to "dominate" until Oregon started turning the ball over multiple times in its own 40. Oregon averaged 3.4 yds/att LSU and it's dominating rushing attack averaged 3.6
ppilot
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GoBears58;582950 said:

Seriously, as if lying down and faking an injury once equates with buying skill position players from Texas... Ironically, the same players that catapult you to the top of the conference...

Try again dufus
ork:


I understand why you feel that way. I mean you have to come up with an explanation as to why a team that's recruited similarly to Cal is having more success.
SouthBayPhenom
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ppilot;582969 said:

I think we are arguing different things. I have no problem admitting Oregon struggled to run against a team that is giving up less than 2 yards per rush. My point is that LSU didn't start to "dominate" until Oregon started turning the ball over multiple times in its own 40. Oregon averaged 3.4 yds/att LSU and it's dominating rushing attack averaged 3.6


yes, we are vehemently arguing 2 different things

I agree: the game was very much "a game" for quite a while, and only broke open w/ the TO's; but in the same breath I assert that UO's running game was largely stifled anyway
93BearInOregon
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Canard;582170 said:

I put "solved" in quotes because there is no riddle there in the first place. My contempt for this line of thought about offenses being puzzling for professional defensive coordinators really runs towards Rick Neuheisal, who is the highest placed moron holding this opinion.

It is really quite astounding to me that people go "Wooo. Clancy Pendergast really showed Oregon in 2010." They are operating off of a sample of one.

And what is really amusing is recalling 2009. The Bears were #6 or something and Bob Gregory had solved the Oregon offense in 2008 to the tune of 16 points, or just six points worse than Pete Carroll's last salty defense managed.

Suddenly in 2009, Gregory couldn't "solve" it to save his life. Did he forget the answer to the riddle or something?


Back after being gone a couple days. I understand your point Canard but I don't think you're understanding mine, or that of many others who say Pendy "solved" Oregon's offense last year.

The more you write the more it becomes apparent that you're really irked when people say that. Perhaps that's because you've taken so much pride in Chippy "out-smarting" other coaches with his innovative scheme that it pokes your swelled-up pride to hear others suggest that Chippy himself got out smarted, or at least caught up with. But regardless of why the "solved" comment bothers you so much, it leads to you coming off like a total freakin' prick.

And more germane to this conversation, it blinds you to the point others are making. Chippy's scheme doesn't have to be complicated in order to require "solving." Simple puzzles can be quite effective at times, and the fact is no team has demonstrated an ability to stop it under normal season (1-week prep) conditions. Except one. The 2010 California Golden Bears.

I'd love to hear you admit that you fully expected the ducks to waltz into Memorial last year and hang their typical 35 or 40 (or whatever their per-game average was) on the Bears. I know I did. So did the hundreds of other duck fans I saw before, during, and after the game. They got one, ONE offensive TD. Compared to their per-game average that qualifies as stopped-in-your-tracks, and since no other team has been able to do that under those conditions, that qualifies as "solved." The relative complexity or simplicity of Oregon's scheme has nothing to do with that, so hearing you repeat how simple the scheme is and how few plays the ducks run is vacuous.

Your point about execution having as much or more to do with success than scheme does is obvious to any football fan. So what? The fact is scheme does matter, Pendy attacked the Oregon O in a way that other teams hadn't tried yet, and his players executed the scheme. And Oregon's offensive attack was stopped, meaning virtually by definition it was solved.

The only way around this would be to argue that Cal did almost nothing to stop oregon, and that every D-line penetration, dropped pass, solid open-field tackle, fumble, etc. were all simply Oregon "mistakes", and duck players just having "an off night." Of course if you argued that you would be saying something far more patently stupid than anything that has yet been claimed about last year's game.
AuUrsinae
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drunkoski;582402 said:

Whaaaa? I thought Oregon had great fans?


Oregon fans great?...haha...they would sell their own mothers for a 500.00 profit as witnessed at the NCG game last yr...65-35% Auburn fans...many war eagle yellin semi-educated hillbillies in the Duck sections via stubhub...then LSU game was pitiful once again...only place where duck fans talk a big game is at Autzen.

But one thing for sure, reading these types of threads on BI and educk shows how people take this stuff way too seriously...if football games or conversations about football really annoy you, then you have a good life...:crazy

BTW, I have no idea what will happen at the Cal-Oregon game, but one thing that I know wont happen is Aaron Chipotle grabbing his hangnail in agony..:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:...in all seriousness, and as soon as I read the title of this thread, I KNEW it would soon degenerate into a injurygate---> I hate u, u hate me, u suck, well u suck too thread....
SouthBayPhenom
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edit: my reaction to 93bearinoregon's smack down
93BearInOregon
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BellottiBold;582198 said:

By now I suspect everyone realizes that the tone with which Canard posted is not really my style, but with that said I feel a need to point out that if you kicked the living crap out of our offense, that was for 3 quarters, and the 4th decidedly belonged to us...


And that's part of what makes your posts more readable than his.

But while you're entitled to your opinion I think it's not quite accurate. The 4th quarter in no way "decidedly" belonged to the ducks. Had Oregon hung 24 points on Cal and seen a sharp upturn in their positive yardage per play all in in the 4th, then I would agree.

The 1st 3 quarters belonged to Cal's defense. The 4th was a titanic draw. Oregon got the ball back with over 9 minutes left IIRC and just barely moved enough to keep the sticks jumping. A few clutch plays in that series, no doubt (I already referenced the sideline catch, which was on a 4th down if memory serves). But it's not like Oregon suddenly started running all over the Bears the way they had other Pac-10 teams last year. Oregon was able to do enough to milk a lot of clock on the final drive, and turn a 2 point lead into a 2-point win. Good for the ducks - if I were a duck fan I'd be proud of that drive.

But to say that means the 4th quarter was decidedly Oregon's is to watch that game through the greenest- and yellowest-colored glasses. Both teams were exhausted at that point and the atmosphere was tense. Oregon gutted out a win. They did not dominate, not even for a quarter.
Tedhead03
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calftball;582043 said:

I am sure I'll get hammered for this BUT.......... Oregon's offense is about to be exposed for the inflated, circus act, trickery based scheme that it is. Someone is going to figure out how to pull the plug on this nonsense. Yes they have the talent to consistantly pull it off up till now but I can't help feeling that once it is figured out how to defend, The Ducks will be cooked.
Who better to rise up and turn the tide then our Bears?
Comments other than I'm an idiot?


Hasn't the Oregon offense already been exposed? They lost in the national championship game last year and the Rose Bowl the year before. They lost in their matchup against LSU this year against LSU's backup QB. Frankly, I think the Ducks are merely capitalizing on the fact that the rest of the Pac-12 (other than Stanford) is in shambles. They remind me of the Loyola Maramount college hoops team back in the day with Hank Gathers and Bo Kimble, a running team that put up some ridiculous numbers but ultimately, wasn't built to win a championship. Much like the Oregon team, Loyola's objective was to tire out the opposition by playing at a crazy pace.
ppilot
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93BearInOregon;582993 said:

And that's part of what makes your posts more readable than his.

But while you're entitled to your opinion I think it's not quite accurate. The 4th quarter in no way "decidedly" belonged to the ducks. Had Oregon hung 24 points on Cal and seen a sharp upturn in their positive yardage per play all in in the 4th, then I would agree.

The 1st 3 quarters belonged to Cal's defense. The 4th was a titanic draw. Oregon got the ball back with over 9 minutes left IIRC and just barely moved enough to keep the sticks jumping. A few clutch plays in that series, no doubt (I already referenced the sideline catch, which was on a 4th down if memory serves). But it's not like Oregon suddenly started running all over the Bears the way they had other Pac-10 teams last year. Oregon was able to do enough to milk a lot of clock on the final drive, and turn a 2 point lead into a 2-point win. Good for the ducks - if I were a duck fan I'd be proud of that drive.

But to say that means the 4th quarter was decidedly Oregon's is to watch that game through the greenest- and yellowest-colored glasses. Both teams were exhausted at that point and the atmosphere was tense. Oregon gutted out a win. They did not dominate, not even for a quarter.


Though no points were scored the stats for the 4th quarter are a landslide for Oregon

TOP
Ore 12:56
Cal 2:04

Yards
Ore 109
Cal 10

Plays
Ore 29
Cal 8
93BearInOregon
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Cal89;582499 said:

You will never see making conclusive statements such as "always", "none", "never" and the like unless I've done my research and that is indeed the case.




Had too quote this just for the irony factor alone. :p

(yes, yes, I realize that this isn't technically a contradiction. It just looks awesome though!)
AuUrsinae
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I doubt the Oregon players or coaches could give two flying farks about the flopping from last yr...so you're saying that a bunch of whiny Oregon fans with too much time on their hands exercising their internet right to say inane and ludicrous things on a Cal MB reflects badly on the Duck football team and their standing in the PAC 10?...hmmm.....

You really think what you clowns say on here has any reflection or bearing on the Cal football team?...hate to break the news to you but neither football team could give two flying farks about any of you MB posters on the Cal or Duck side...they laugh at people like us.

So lets be clear...Cal fans think it was gamesmanship to fake the injuries and Oregon fans think the pick was unintentional...these are just opinions of rabid fans...it doesnt reflect on either team directly.







freshfunk;582844 said:

Seriously.

You would've thought Oregon lost last year's game against Cal considering the amount of b*tching they still do over a couple of dives.

Give me a freaking break. If it's really THAT big of a deal, then Oregon's offense is gimmicky since it's hugely dependent on other teams not flopping. If it doesn't affect their offense, then why the constant b*tching?

I don't care if it's Cal's board, Oregon's board or ESPN. Can Oregon fans stop whining over a couple flops?

The Tuinei pick being intentional is debatable (at best). But at least that's worth debating considering the real, physical injuries it cost (for both players). A dive is nothing in the scheme of things regardless of some arbitrary, figurative interpretation Oregon fans take away from it.

Maybe Oregon fans think it's fun to needle Cal fans over it. Fine, I get it. But really it makes Oregon look bad to the rest of the Pac as a bunch of whiny complainers and takes away from their position as a leader in the conference (figuratively speaking). I'd rather take arrogance of ability ($C) over b*tching over some trivial stuff.

I hate to put it this way but at least Stanfurd fans let their wins speak for themselves.
Unit2Sucks
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Canard;583007 said:






Time to move on dude. The whining is really getting old.
93BearInOregon
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ppilot;582998 said:

Though no points were scored the stats for the 4th quarter are a landslide for Oregon

TOP
Ore 12:56
Cal 2:04




There's your stat right there. Cal couldn't get the ball back, so of course other 4th Q stats like yardage are all Oregon. But really, it's the final drive that won the game. So let's look at that drive

Going off the PBP Canard posted, Oregon netted 68 yards in a 8+ minutes of clock in 19 plays (ignoring the 2 knees at the end) and zero points. That hardly qualifies as a dominating offensive series, though I readily acknowledge the TOP stat is impressive. That's what you should be proud of your team for doing: holding onto the ball to make a tenuous 2-point lead a win. But that's gutting out a tough road win, not dominating.

What some of you duck fans miss, and everyone else seemed to recognize (including media analysts, not just Cal fans) is that the vaunted Oregon offense got cold-cocked in Strawberry Canyon last year. No one saw that coming. Shouting "we won the 4th quarter!" and claiming that the drive listed above equals dominance just makes you look silly.

A better response would be "wow, didn't see THAT one coming. Great game by the Bear defense, glad our boys pulled out the W despite a much tougher test than I expected. Onward we march." I have yet to hear anything like that from even reasonable duck fans.
ppilot
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93BearInOregon;583019 said:

There's your stat right there. Cal couldn't get the ball back, so of course other 4th Q stats like yardage are all Oregon. But really, it's the final drive that won the game. So let's look at that drive

Going off the PBP Canard posted, Oregon netted 68 yards in a 8+ minutes of clock in 19 plays (ignoring the 2 knees at the end) and zero points. That hardly qualifies as a dominating offensive series, though I readily acknowledge the TOP stat is impressive. That's what you should be proud of your team for doing: holding onto the ball to make a tenuous 2-point lead a win. But that's gutting out a tough road win, not dominating.

What some of you duck fans miss, and everyone else seemed to recognize (including media analysts, not just Cal fans) is that the vaunted Oregon offense got cold-cocked in Strawberry Canyon last year. No one saw that coming. Shouting "we won the 4th quarter!" and claiming that the drive listed above equals dominance just makes you look silly.

A better response would be "wow, didn't see THAT one coming. Great game by the Bear defense, glad our boys pulled out the W despite a much tougher test than I expected. Onward we march." I have yet to hear anything like that from even reasonable duck fans.


What are you talking about? We're only discussing the 4th quarter, not the entire game. I really don't know how getting out gained by over 100 yards (when your own team only has 10) can be interpreted other than being completely out played.

Also if you want reasonable responses, it generally helps to make a reasonable statement. Your last two paragraphs scream of that game being a moral victory and Cal fans are better than that.
Cal_Fan2
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Canard;583042 said:

That'd be because your staff pissed away any attaboys the players were going to get. Media analysts noticed that too.


Media analysts????
waltwa
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I am not quite sure what exactly "gimmicky" means but i think that if u have an offense that is classified as such you must file an intent to run a gimmicky offense with the NCAA 60 days prior to the season. If the appeal is not filed properly TD's only count for 5 points.

I seem to recall that in Chip's 1st year he did not get his notice of intent to run a gimmicky offense in time and while for some unknown reason the NCAA did not enforce the 5 pt rule U may recall that Oregon was completley discombobulated in their 1st game vs Boise St.

My understanding of the fight that ensued after the game it was because a Boise player yelled "Gimmicky" at the Oregon TB and got suckerpunched.

I completely agree with the intent of this post that all teams should run exactly the same offense. that would make everything equal.
freshfunk
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AuUrsinae;583012 said:


So lets be clear...Cal fans think it was gamesmanship to fake the injuries and Oregon fans think the pick was unintentional...these are just opinions of rabid fans...it doesnt reflect on either team directly.


I hate to have to qualify everything I say but this last point is as I meant it. Of course I don't speak for all media and the entire college football crowd. I was speaking personally and for the percentage of rabid fans that happen to agree with me.

It's just sad. Canard thinks he's being smart or witty but really he just looks like a pathetic, small person. Of course hrs not the sole the representative of Oregon football but you come across enough Canard's in the boards (espn included) and you can't help questioning the fan base as a whole.
davetdds
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Canard;583042 said:

That'd be because your staff pissed away any attaboys the players were going to get. Media analysts noticed that too.


I very rarely see UO fans give credit to anybody. if they lose or do poorly it is someone elses fault
 
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