Hey Dodgers Fans

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sycasey
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71Bear said:

I don't think luck factors into baseball more than other sports. In fact, it might be less because of the multi-games series' in the post season. What is true, in my opinion, is that a team can get on a roll at the right time and pull off an upset. Washington is a darn good team with strong starting pitching and a solid lineup.
On luck in sports:

There have been studies on this. Basically, baseball and hockey have roughly the same level of luck built into a single game, probably because they are low-scoring sports that require a lot of guys to contribute equally (can't have one star dominate like in basketball or one QB like in football).

Football regular seasons have more luck built in because of the small sample of games, but individual football games are more deterministic based on skill. Basketball is the most talent-driven sport of all, which probably tells you the NBA season doesn't need to be as long as it is.



https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/other-sports/2018/05/08/statistics-professional-sports-luck-skill-hockey-baseball-basketball-football/stories/201805070152
calbearinamaze
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rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!



If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
bonsallbear
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BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Roberts hasn't learned how to manage. He needs one of those dummy books.
NYCGOBEARS
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bonsallbear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Roberts hasn't learned how to manage. He needs one of those dummy books.

What Roberts needs is a big fat extension.
GMP
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BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




And you beat the Dodgers. Truly, a symbiotic relationship.
calbearinamaze
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bonsallbear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Roberts hasn't learned how to manage. He needs one of those dummy books.
LOL (I think)

It wasn't so much bringing in Kershaw (Darren Baker's pops brought in Max 2 years. He got lit up and Dusty got fired). I see that as a gut-level decision.

QUESTION: Why was Joe Kelly allowed anywhere close to the mound?????? Heck, bring in a position-player to throw wiffle balls. The Nats are a really good fastball hitting team. 80 mph and lower....not so much.
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
m2bear
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I think I'm going to have some pancakes and syrup. Maybe a biscuit on the side.
bonsallbear
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BEARUPINDC said:

bonsallbear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Roberts hasn't learned how to manage. He needs one of those dummy books.
LOL (I think)

It wasn't so much bringing in Kershaw (Darren Baker's pops brought in Max 2 years. He got lit up and Dusty got fired). I see that as a gut-level decision.

QUESTION: Why was Joe Kelly allowed anywhere close to the mound?????? Heck, bring in a position-player to throw wiffle balls. The Nats are a really good fastball hitting team. 80 mph and lower....not so much.
Mazda had been groomed for over a month to come in precisely for this situation and Robert's brings in Kershaw who has shown recent problems with first innings. Big Red flag!, after the damage was done, Maeda
Comes in and gets the straight outs. Unfortunately, Roberts is give 3 year extension. IDIOCY!!
sycasey
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BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Congratulations to Dave Martinez, who was a good Giant.
71Bear
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BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Congrats to the Expos/Nationals. They can now leave the list of teams that have never won a World Series.

That leaves Washington/Texas, Seattle/Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa, San Diego and Seattle as the holdouts.

Of that group, only the Seattle Mariners have never been to the Series.

And, of course, the longest World Series win drought now stands at 71 years (Cleveland).

Somewhere, Hall of Famers Tim Raines and Andre Dawson are saluting the Nationals achievement.
sycasey
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71Bear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Congrats to the Expos/Nationals. They can now leave the list of teams that have never won a World Series.

That leaves Washington/Texas, Seattle/Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa, San Diego and Seattle as the holdouts.

Of that group, only the Seattle Mariners have never been to the Series.

And, of course, the longest World Series win drought now stands at 71 years (Cleveland).

Somewhere, Hall of Famers Tim Raines and Andre Dawson are saluting the Nationals achievement.

The Mariners are also now the only current franchise to have never won a league pennant.
tequila4kapp
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The Nats win raises some interesting questions about how to build your roster. The Dodger's way of incredible depth is great for the regular season. But the Nats approach with 2 dominant starters (not unlike what the Giants did during their 3 WS victories) wins titles.
71Bear
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sycasey said:

71Bear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Congrats to the Expos/Nationals. They can now leave the list of teams that have never won a World Series.

That leaves Washington/Texas, Seattle/Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa, San Diego and Seattle as the holdouts.

Of that group, only the Seattle Mariners have never been to the Series.

And, of course, the longest World Series win drought now stands at 71 years (Cleveland).

Somewhere, Hall of Famers Tim Raines and Andre Dawson are saluting the Nationals achievement.

The Mariners are also now the only current franchise to have never won a league pennant.
Which is another way of saying they haven't been to the World Series...
sycasey
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71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

BEARUPINDC said:

rathokan said:

the Nats were the hottest team the 2nd half of the season, and they have a starting pitching that can go toe to toe with anyone. They were only looked at as underdogs by most people because of their overall record which included a terrible start to the season. Nobody was playing better than they were the last few months.

Congratulations to the Nats!

Frustrating that the Dodgers have lost to the World Series champion four years in a row now. Was glad to see Washington win it though.
(Long-time follower, first-time poster re; this most excellent thread)

WARNING: I was at the Nats' parade yesterday and am still "suffering" from mass-induced-euphoria

You're spot on.

I'd like to thank a few under-appreciated heroes:

*Geraldo Parra....For his super-positive attitude and the concept of mandatory fun....under pressure

*The Giants.........For cutting him

*Dave Roberts....For, apparently, forgetting how to manage

*A.J. HInch.........Please see the above

Go Nats and "underdogs" everywhere!




Congrats to the Expos/Nationals. They can now leave the list of teams that have never won a World Series.

That leaves Washington/Texas, Seattle/Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa, San Diego and Seattle as the holdouts.

Of that group, only the Seattle Mariners have never been to the Series.

And, of course, the longest World Series win drought now stands at 71 years (Cleveland).

Somewhere, Hall of Famers Tim Raines and Andre Dawson are saluting the Nationals achievement.

The Mariners are also now the only current franchise to have never won a league pennant.
Which is another way of saying they haven't been to the World Series...

Ugh, brain fart by me.
71Bear
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tequila4kapp said:

The Nats win raises some interesting questions about how to build your roster. The Dodger's way of incredible depth is great for the regular season. But the Nats approach with 2 dominant starters (not unlike what the Giants did during their 3 WS victories) wins titles.
Yep. The secret to success is build a roster to get you to the post season (wild card, divisional title? It makes no difference, just get there...). Then, anything is possible. I didn't look it up but I think the number of wild card Series winners is substantial.
dimitrig
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tequila4kapp said:

The Nats win raises some interesting questions about how to build your roster. The Dodger's way of incredible depth is great for the regular season. But the Nats approach with 2 dominant starters (not unlike what the Giants did during their 3 WS victories) wins titles.


Well, that is exactly what Houston did and yet they still lost. The difference between Houston, LA, and the Nats was very small but among those teams the Nats had the least talent. If just one at-bat had gone differently we'd be talking about Houston or LA as champions and how the Nats need another starter or a better bullpen to compete.
Cal8285
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71Bear said:

tequila4kapp said:

The Nats win raises some interesting questions about how to build your roster. The Dodger's way of incredible depth is great for the regular season. But the Nats approach with 2 dominant starters (not unlike what the Giants did during their 3 WS victories) wins titles.
Yep. The secret to success is build a roster to get you to the post season (wild card, divisional title? It makes no difference, just get there...). Then, anything is possible. I didn't look it up but I think the number of wild card Series winners is substantial.
There have been 25 seasons with a wild card, starting in 1995. 13 teams in the World Series, 7 winners. In the 17 years of the one wild card team in each league era, there were 10 teams in the World Series, 5 overall winners. In the 8 years of the two wild card teams in each league era, there have been 3 teams in the World Series, 2 winners. In each era, there was one World Series matching up wild card teams, 2002 Angels-Giants, and 2014 Royals-Giants, each going 7 games. 5 of the 7 wild card World Series winners needed 7 games to win the Series, only the 2003 Marlins beating the Yankees 4-2 and the sweep by the 2004 Red Sox after their comeback from 3-0 down to the Yankees in the ALCS being the exceptions.

If everything is a toss-up, then the change starting in 2012 to having 2 wild cards in each league shouldn't make a big difference, since the final four still includes 1 wild card.

In theory, however, the new system should make it tougher for the wild card to get out of the division series, because, if possible, the wild card teams will throw their best pitchers in the wild card game, meaning they will mostly be available for only a game 3 start in the LDS best of 5 series. In theory, the Nats were using Scherzer as their ace in the wild card game, and then he didn't start again until game 4. Of course, it eventually became apparent that Strasberg was the hotter pitcher in post-season.

The most remarkable thing about the Giants 2014 NLDS win over the (on paper) superior Nationals was that the only game they lost was the only game Bumgarner started, game 3. Of course, having pitched Bum in game 3, he was then on track to start games 1 and 5 of both the NLDS and the World Series. Again in 2016, however, the Giants were in a situation where they could only start their ace once in the NLDS, because he had pitched the wild card game.

For the most part, the biggest thing is to get there, although it helps to get there hot, and especially to get there with a hot and deep starting rotation. There are exceptions, the 2012 Giants starting rotation was not hot, and other than Vogelsong (to keep relevant to the OP, a MUCH better post-season pitcher than Kershaw), didn't really get hot until the World Series. And the 2014 Giants somehow won it all with only one good starting pitcher, which is really hard to do.

And now that we're in the era with two wild cards who start with a winner take all, it sure helps if the rotation is set up to start the ace in that game, even if it hurts chances in the LDS. In 2014, the Pirates burned their best starters in an effort to win the Central and avoid the wild card game, and were left with Volquez to start the wild card game, as opposed to, say, Cole or Liriano. It is obviously better to avoid the winner take all wild card game if you can, but you can get burned if you try and fail and don't have an ace to pitch in the winner take all game.

In the end, it's baseball. In a short series, or one game, anything is possible.
calbearinamaze
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This beautiful article by Mike Krukow captures the essence of the Nats AND the kinship between my two favorite
franchises.


https://sports.yahoo.com/why-mike-krukow-compares-world-023458445.html
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
TheSouseFamily
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The apocalypse is upon us. What's next? Giants signing Puig? This is just plain wrong.

71Bear
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TheSouseFamily said:

The apocalypse is upon us. What's next? Giants signing Puig? This is just plain wrong.


If Marichal can pitch for LA (and he did), anyone can move from SF to the Dodgers. Bumgarner wanted to return to the Giants, they said "we are moving on". If he signs with Los Angeles, I will thank him for his post season brilliance and "move on".
sycasey
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I would have assumed that Bumgarner would prefer not to sign with the Dodgers, but he might not have better options.
Cal8285
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sycasey said:

I would have assumed that Bumgarner would prefer not to sign with the Dodgers, but he might not have better options.
His big "enemy" with LA, Puig, is long gone and the teammates Puig had who are left didn't like him.

Bumgarner would much prefer the National League where he can swing the bat when he pitches.

Bumgarner appreciated the way Kershaw and the Dodgers respected him when he made his pinch hitting appearance on the last day of the season this year. If that was an early recruiting ploy, it was a good one.

Yeah, if the Atlanta Braves would open their wallets for him the same way the Dodgers will, he'd probably prefer to go there.

But if he wants to avoid the AL, and he wants 5 years and $100M, his best option might be LA.
71Bear
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Bumgarner to AZ for 5 years/$85 million.

Both LA and SF will continue to see him regularly.
Joker
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71Bear said:

Bumgarner to AZ for 5 years/$85 million.

Both LA and SF will continue to see him regularly.
I know he's not the same guy anymore, but that one hurts
sycasey
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MadBum may find that the new park doesn't help his stats.
philbert
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sycasey said:

MadBum may find that the new park doesn't help his stats.


Better check his career stats in AZ. Pretty solid.
sycasey
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philbert said:

sycasey said:

MadBum may find that the new park doesn't help his stats.


Better check his career stats in AZ. Pretty solid.

He's not the same guy he was at his peak though, gives up more flyball contact now.

Anyway, maybe he can adjust.
71Bear
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Joker said:

71Bear said:

Bumgarner to AZ for 5 years/$85 million.

Both LA and SF will continue to see him regularly.
I know he's not the same guy anymore, but that one hurts

Yep. However, when Bochy retired, it was time to tear things down and begin the rebuild. Giving Bumgarner a five year deal was one year too many (SF offered four years/$70 million). The Giants got themselves into their current situation by dealing out big contracts to legacy players. Those days are officially over.

chazzed
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html
sycasey
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chazzed said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.
TheSouseFamily
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sycasey said:

chazzed said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.


I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title. But the idea that a team (management AND players) can all cheat (successfully) in direct pursuit of a title, get busted and then keep it is simply unfathomable to me. In what sport can you get caught cheating and still claim the reward from the cheating? Heck, SC vacated a title because the family of 1 of its 100 players was getting some extra juice. Had nothing to go with what happened on the field.

Embarrassing for MLB to let this stand.
calbearinamaze
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chazzed said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html
As a NATS fan....Hinch was really annoying during the World Series. AJ....show some emotion now.
chazzed
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Just adding some perspective to Giants' fans' perspective.
sycasey
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TheSouseFamily said:

sycasey said:

chazzed said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.


I haven't heard any Dodger fan suggest they have any claim on a title.
Oh, I have. Twitter is a horrible cesspool.
txwharfrat
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sycasey said:

chazzed said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-astros-punishment-dodgers-pay-062919220.html

Congratulations to the Dodgers on their Moral Victory World Championship.


The Dodgers did lose two HOME GAMES is that series - without the dugout trash can...
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