Hey Dodgers Fans

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KoreAmBear
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What do G fans think of the Timmy deal? I am thinking Sabean is out of his mind throwing that kind of money to him, even for two years.

http://mlb.si.com/2013/10/22/giants-tim-lincecum-contract-extension/
GMP
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KoreAmBear;842204989 said:

What do G fans think of the Timmy deal? I am thinking Sabean is out of his mind throwing that kind of money to him, even for two years.

http://mlb.si.com/2013/10/22/giants-tim-lincecum-contract-extension/


I'd say it's evenly split, from people I've talked to. I think it was the right move. Here's a post I wrote on a thread on the Insider board:

Some very good points in this article:

http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/why-gia...ecum-is-crazy/


Quote:

Yet, San Francisco assistant general manager Bobby Evans, when reached yesterday by phone, offered a reasoned argument for doing this deal:

1. The Giants were going to place the qualifying offer ($14.1 million) on Lincecum to assure if he left, they would receive draft-pick compensation. If he stayed, that would be his 2014 salary. If they then offered the tender next year and it had about the same increase ($800,000) that it had between 2012-13, then the Giants could, through this process, have Lincecum for two years at $29 million not incredibly far off the two-year deal the sides actually reached.


So, the Giants didn't want to let him walk (this year or next) without getting a compensation pick in return, so they only overpaid by $6M. Interesting.

Also, and I know this doesn't "count", but:


Quote:

"In 2013 Lincecum had a 4.37 ERA and the Giants feel it was inflated because 12 of his inherited runners scored (the second-highest total in the majors). You may remember, for example, he left his next-to-last start, Sept. 20 at Yankee Stadium, with the bases loaded and two outs, and the score 1-1. Reliever George Kontos was greeted by an Alex Rodriguez grand slam."


I calculated - if NONE of his inherited runners score, his ERA would be 3.82 at which point we'd be saying, "Hey...Timmy is back."

And I think the most important point:


Quote:

"Though the Giants do not think a Cy is returning soon, they do feel Lincecum is evolving and in Evans' words "has upside and we are not sure there are many guys in this free-agent market you could say that about."

7. Put all of this together and San Francisco believed on the open market, Lincecum would have had suitors at a significant salary and just as vital it might have had to pay more to find his replacement."


I still say the Giants made a good deal.
Bear_Elegance
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grandmastapoop;842205010 said:

I calculated - if NONE of his inherited runners score, his ERA would be 3.82 at which point we'd be saying, "Hey...Timmy is back."




3.82 is not a very good ERA for a starting pitcher, especially one who is supposed to be your ace.

I think Tim Lincecum is washed up. I don't think he can ever regain his Cy Young award winning form. He washed up very quickly, too, after reaching the peak of his young career. Reminds me of Barry Zito's career. Early super success, then a nagging injury or two, and then a flameout for the rest of his career.
1979bear
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Bumgarner was the only starter decidedly better than Lincecum this year.
GMP
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Bear_Elegance;842205518 said:

3.82 is not a very good ERA for a starting pitcher, especially one who is supposed to be your ace.

I think Tim Lincecum is washed up. I don't think he can ever regain his Cy Young award winning form. He washed up very quickly, too, after reaching the peak of his young career. Reminds me of Barry Zito's career. Early super success, then a nagging injury or two, and then a flameout for the rest of his career.


3.82 is actually pretty good. And he's not our ace. He's our 3rd starter, perhaps the 4th, depending on who else they get.
GMP
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1979bear;842205542 said:

Bumgarner was the only starter decidedly better than Lincecum this year.


Cain had a couple weird months, but in the second half his ERA was 2.36, and that's with an ERA over 8 in July. He was decidedly better than Lincecum.
sycasey
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grandmastapoop;842205010 said:

I still say the Giants made a good deal.


The argument that works the best is when you start thinking about what kind of salary Lincecum would command on the open market -- probably it would have been close to what the Giants wound up paying (remember, it only takes one team to believe he can regain his old form, and almost everybody needs another pitcher).

From a non-baseball perspective, Lincecum is also probably worth more to the Giants, in much the same way that Derek Jeter is worth more to the Yankees -- he's an icon for the local fanbase, the kind of guy who will sell jerseys and other merchandise better in San Francisco than anywhere else. That's a business decision, not a baseball decision, but since the Giants still have a stadium to pay for I understand the reasoning.

The only way this signing bothers me is if it means the Giants aren't willing to spend money on someone else because of what they spent on Lincecum. If the owners are still willing to open up their wallets to improve the team further (like, to get another OF), then what they paid for him is fine.
KoreAmBear
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grandmastapoop;842205557 said:

Cain had a couple weird months, but in the second half his ERA was 2.36, and that's with an ERA over 8 in July. He was decidedly better than Lincecum.


Cain has decidedly better stuff than Lincecum.
sycasey
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KoreAmBear;842205652 said:

Cain has decidedly better stuff than Lincecum.


I don't know that I agree. Lincecum's problem is not stuff, it's control. When he controls his stuff, he's unhittable. When he can't he gives up big innings because he's letting so many guys on base (too many walks).

Cain doesn't have as much swing-and-miss stuff, but he controls it better and is more consistent. Timmy needs to learn control now that his fastball doesn't have blazing speed anymore.
KoreAmBear
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sycasey;842205974 said:

I don't know that I agree. Lincecum's problem is not stuff, it's control. When he controls his stuff, he's unhittable. When he can't he gives up big innings because he's letting so many guys on base (too many walks).

Cain doesn't have as much swing-and-miss stuff, but he controls it better and is more consistent. Timmy needs to learn control now that his fastball doesn't have blazing speed anymore.


Maybe it's just velocity then. Look at Cain's 2011-2013 fastballs and the chart is relatively consistent:

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4732&position=P&pitch=FA

Look at Lincecum's and it's trended downward:

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5705&position=P&pitch=FA
sycasey
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KoreAmBear;842206036 said:

Maybe it's just velocity then. Look at Cain's 2011-2013 fastballs and the chart is relatively consistent:

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4732&position=P&pitch=FA

Look at Lincecum's and it's trended downward:

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5705&position=P&pitch=FA


Right, that's fastball velocity. Lincecum used to have an amazing fastball, now he's just got a run-of-the-mill decent MLB fastball. Cain has lost a bit of speed, but he's always just kind of had a pretty good MLB fastball.

But Lincecum has a variety of other pitches that are hard to hit; Cain not so much. I think the problem is that he never really had to control it so well when his fastball was way up there and batters just flailed, but now he'll have to learn to actually pitch (hit his spots consistently, etc.) in order to survive. Meanwhile, Cain had to do that from the start because his stuff, while good, was not overpowering.
GB54
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If the Giants have a weakness in their starting rotation it makes no sense to me to lavish this amount of dough on a guy who has the numbers of a 4-5 starter in a pitcher's park. Seems to me their pitching problems are the same after this move while they raise the ante for a frontline starter
beelzebear
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The Giants reportedly will have problems resigning Vogelsong. Mean while the Dodgers are going after the best quality starter available.

Los Angeles Dodgers' One Offseason Move to Make: Sign Masahiro Tanaka
heartofthebear
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Lincecum's contract is validated by the revenue he brings in from ticket sales and apparel etc. Because he is popular, his performance on the field is not as much of an issue as it is with Vogie. IOW baseball executives think in terms of revenue as well as winning when making contract decisions.
Richard_Lee
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heartofthebear;842215709 said:

Lincecum's contract is validated by the revenue he brings in from ticket sales and apparel etc. Because he is popular, his performance on the field is not as much of an issue as it is with Vogie. IOW baseball executives think in terms of revenue as well as winning when making contract decisions.




Do people still buy Tim Lincecum jerseys?

I get that people may have bought them last year after the Giants won the World Series, but this year? I have to think his jersey sales have really fallen.
NYCGOBEARS
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Richard_Lee;842215918 said:

Do people still buy Tim Lincecum jerseys?

I get that people may have bought them last year after the Giants won the World Series, but this year? I have to think his jersey sales have really fallen.


Die hard Giants fans still buy them. Others, I'm not so sure about.
YuSeeBerkeley
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NYCGOBEARS;842215922 said:

Die hard Giants fans still buy them. Others, I'm not so sure about.


Wouldn't the die hards already have his jersey?
NYCGOBEARS
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YuSeeBerkeley;842215996 said:

Wouldn't the die hards already have his jersey?


How about trying to pretend like they are die hard old school Giants fans? Or for their children or other family members?
GB54
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And it begins
NYCGOBEARS
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GB54;842295765 said:

And it begins


Stirring the old pot, huh GB?
beelzebear
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Okay lets get this thing going the right way lads.

Pablo Sandoval wants a 5 year/$90m deal. The Giants don't want to pay that kind of money, or duration.

Free agency for Panda looks like it might happen and by golly, the Dodgers need to replace Uribe soon. Here's hoping Panda dodges the Giants cheapass offer and bolts to the Dodgers! They have the $$$ and are willing to throw it around.
GRRAAH
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Dodgers in first place for weeks on end...again. Ho hum.
tydog
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And Puig has already pissed off Donny baseball. Should be some good drama in LA this year. Go Halos!
GB54
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NYCGOBEARS;842295794 said:

Stirring the old pot, huh GB?


It's board healing NYC. Let's leave behind our picayune arguments about Sonny, pH of water and whether the band or Hang on Sloopy should play at commercial breaks and come together over the national pastime
NYCGOBEARS
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GB54;842295804 said:

It's board healing NYC. Let's leave behind our picayune arguments about Sonny, pH of water and whether the band or Hang on Sloopy should play at commercial breaks and come together over the national pastime

I just spent the evening with GRRAAH and we didn't fight once.
GinFizzBear
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beelzebear;842295796 said:

Okay lets get this thing going the right way lads.

Pablo Sandoval wants a 5 year/$90m deal. The Giants don't want to pay that kind of money, or duration.

Free agency for Panda looks like it might happen and by golly, the Dodgers need to replace Uribe soon. Here's hoping Panda dodges the Giants cheapass offer and bolts to the Dodgers! They have the $$$ and are willing to throw it around.


The post-Uribe strategy for the Dodgers at 3B is Hanley Ramirez to 3rd, with Guerrero at 2nd and Corey Seager (the best prospect in the Dodgers' farm system) at SS. Pablo is welcome to take his services elsewhere. Of course, Nedman never saw an ex-Giant he didn't like.
GinFizzBear
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I am in awe of the longevity of this thread.
NYCGOBEARS
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GinFizzBear;842296035 said:

I am in awe of the longevity of this thread.


The hate runs deep.
KoreAmBear
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NYCGOBEARS;842296053 said:

The hate runs deep.


Which will last longer: this thread or Cal's monster class thread?
NYCGOBEARS
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KoreAmBear;842296054 said:

Which will last longer: this thread or Cal's monster class thread?


I was thinking the same. I have no idea.
KoreAmBear
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NYCGOBEARS;842296069 said:

I was thinking the same. I have no idea.


I think they will both outlive us, my friend.
NYCGOBEARS
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KoreAmBear;842296074 said:

I think they will both outlive us, my friend.

You may be right...
bearsandgiants
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Fear the beard!
rathokan
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as a dodgers fan, i am fearing the beard
NYCGOBEARS
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rathokan;842299004 said:

as a dodgers fan, i am fearing the beard


Lmao
 
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