A parent of a player PM'd several of us....

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sycasey
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In reply to freshfunk • 10:51a, 11/24/12
freshfunk;842019324 said:
JT is a man who is stubborn in his ways. I just don't see him enforcing discipline during the early years and then not doing it later. He took out the starting QB for the first quarter of the first game for missing a tutorin session. That is a man who's a stickler for rules even if it screws him.


Could be that he just got tired or burnt out and didn't realize himself how badly he'd slipped. It's human nature.

Look, I understand your desire to see the best in Jeff Tedford. I wanted to for a long time too, but at some point the evidence piles up and you have to admit that he's not the man we thought he was (or perhaps that he once was).
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Boot
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In reply to sycasey • 10:52a, 11/24/12
He said she said.
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Etchebeary
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In reply to pappysghost • 11:03a, 11/24/12
In hindsight, I'm starting to think that the rot for Cal may have started as early as when Rodgers decided he was going pro in 2004, before we played Texas Tech, or even when JT went soft in the 4th quarter and decided not to go for another TD or even kick a field goal against Southern Miss in/near the red zone.

I know of course that our WR corp was beat up, and this, along with the disappointment of not making the Rose Bowl, is the "officially accepted excuse" for the loss, but I can still remember the 04 Holiday Bowl and how Rodgers played his last college game as if he was already thinking of what number he'd play as for the Niners.
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sycasey
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In reply to Etchebeary • 11:15a, 11/24/12
Etchebeary;842019349 said:
In hindsight, I'm starting to think that the rot for Cal may have started as early as when Rodgers decided he was going pro in 2004, before we played Texas Tech, or even when JT went soft in the 4th quarter and decided not to go for another TD or even kick a field goal against Southern Miss in/near the red zone.

I know of course that our WR corp was beat up, and this, along with the disappointment of not making the Rose Bowl, is the "officially accepted excuse" for the loss, but I can still remember the 04 Holiday Bowl and how Rodgers played his last college game as if he was already thinking of what number he'd play as for the Niners.


Well, I'm sure that JT's flaws were there from the beginning, but then again every coach has flaws. The question is when you reach the "tipping point" and those flaws become too much to overcome and be successful. I don't think 2004 was that point . . . the 2005 and especially 2006 seasons were too good for that.
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GBMARIN
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In reply to OskiMD • 11:18a, 11/24/12
OskiMD;842019082 said:
There have now been 20 tweets (and 5 retweets) by KA since 11/20, the day of JT's firing, and not even a mention or shout out to his coach of three years losing his job.

And how about this tweet an hour ago to Dee Milliner (Alabama junior):



Lol... yeah Cal was too weak this year because of your half brother playing QB.

"We was?" What, did he run out of twitter characters?
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Tree Cutter
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In reply to Etchebeary • 11:20a, 11/24/12
Etchebeary;842019349 said:
In hindsight, I'm starting to think that the rot for Cal may have started as early as when Rodgers decided he was going pro in 2004, before we played Texas Tech, or even when JT went soft in the 4th quarter and decided not to go for another TD or even kick a field goal against Southern Miss in/near the red zone.

I know of course that our WR corp was beat up, and this, along with the disappointment of not making the Rose Bowl, is the "officially accepted excuse" for the loss, but I can still remember the 04 Holiday Bowl and how Rodgers played his last college game as if he was already thinking of what number he'd play as for the Niners.


I would put money that when DJax came in, it changed the face of the locker room and how players got treated. Up till then, there wasn't many players that attracted (demanded) so much attention. With Jackson, JT realized that he had a different player and needed a different method to working with him; unfortunately different methods usually results in different rules. Jackson was the highest profile player JT ever recruited some of the fears if I remember on BI was that, as a first time head coach, JT didn't know how to deal with high-profile players. He could deal with most everyone else but, high-profile, prima-donas required a whole different level of skill-sets for a coach.
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hanky1
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In reply to okaydo • 11:32a, 11/24/12
Maynard never should have sent foot at Cal. A failure of JT in evaluation and recruiting AND a failure of the admissions committee for letting him in. This guy didn't work hard in the weight room, in the classroom, and in the film room and he was handed the starting job. Total systemic failure by Tedford.

Some folks mentioned why Tedford has changed. Why he was a disciplinary before but not now? Not true. He was NEVER a disciplinary. The difference before was that he had good kids who mostly followed the rules. But in the past few years he recruited a bunch of bums and let them hold him hostage.
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BerlinerBaer
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In reply to hanky1 • 11:41a, 11/24/12
hanky1;842019366 said:
Some folks mentioned why Tedford has changed. Why he was a disciplinary before but not now? Not true. He was NEVER a disciplinary. The difference before was that he had good kids who mostly followed the rules. But in the past few years he recruited a bunch of bums and let them hold him hostage.


I agree that this is what happened. The last 5 years have seen more kids coming in here that are poor student athletes.
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Etchebeary
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In reply to hanky1 • 11:45a, 11/24/12
Sycasey and Tree Cutter and Hanky1, yeah I think you guys are right. If there was a little rot early on it didn't really affect the program yet. But when ultra-high profile players started entering the picture the weak spots in Tedford's program erroded much faster.
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beelzebear
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In reply to Tree Cutter • 11:49a, 11/24/12
Colonel Mustard killed Teddy with a candlestick in the SAHPC and Professor Plum covered it up.

p.s. Teddy, Maynard and Allen have left the building
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MoragaBear
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In reply to okaydo • 11:53a, 11/24/12
There are A LOT of bearents on these boards. Many post and many don't.

I've heard from a lot of bearents over the years and know many pretty well and I can tell you from personal experience that you need to take everything with a grain of salt, especially from disgruntled parents. Sometimes there's a lot of truth in what they say and sometimes there's very little. You'd be surprised how little they actually know sometimes because many players don't let their parents into their world and a lot of what parents say and believe is their own conjecture.

I can tell you that most players on the team love and respect Tedford even if they don't agree with all his decisions and that this was not a team swirling with dissention. I can tell you, though, that a very sizeable percentage were extremely frustrated with Tedford's insistence on playing Maynard at all costs and not playing and developing any of the other qb's and that the rumors about Maynard not going to class, cutting out on workouts and nearly being on academic probation were all true. I don't buy at all that 15-20 starters weren't going to class.

I also don't believe that Allen made it clear to the whole team that he wouldn't play if Maynard didn't play. I believe that keeping Keenan happy factored into Tedford's decision-making process but I don't believe it was quid pro quo.

It's also clear that Tedford started to lose a handle on the team in '07. In that year, factions and dissention were very real. Once the cat was out of the bag, I think he began to struggle in ways that weren't much of a factor in previous years, though it was never as bad in the following years as it was in late '07.

To me, it reached the point of no return. There was no way they could bring Tedford back in 2013.
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bearzilla
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In reply to hanky1 • 11:54a, 11/24/12
hanky1;842019366 said:
Maynard never should have sent foot at Cal. A failure of JT in evaluation and recruiting AND a failure of the admissions committee for letting him in. This guy didn't work hard in the weight room, in the classroom, and in the film room and he was handed the starting job. Total systemic failure by Tedford.


This. I remember when Keenan Allen withdrew his commitment from Alabama, I thought they were crazy not to throw in a scholarship for his brother to get a 5-star stud like KA. In retrospect, Nick Saban probably saw the writing on the wall and was smart enough to say NO.
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BobbyGBear
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In reply to LessMilesMoreTedford • 11:54a, 11/24/12
pappysghost;842019251 said:
I think it's probably all true, just not all in the proper context. ...

^This, for sure. Certainly there is more to the story and this PM was one person's view. But it's clear that there is some truth here.

Rotton Robbie;842019339 said:

2) In relation to this thread, the fact that Maynard was suspended for a quarter for "missing a tutoring session" sounds like absolute BS to me. Frankly, it sounds more like a copout, as in... they didn't want to suspend him for 4 games, so Tedford let him off of the hook by only suspending him for 1 quarter and justifying it with the 'missing a tutoring session' crap. ...

Frankly, this is consistent with everything said in this thread (favoritism, academic favoritism, no discipline). Does anybody here actually believe Maynard was only suspended for missing a tutoring session? I certainly don't. There's obviously something bigger going on here, and if you connect the dots, it's not at all hard to figure out.

^Finally something you and I agree on. Ha. As much as I go back and forth with Rotton Robbie, and as much as I love to disagree with him on all his trollings, he makes a valid point here. Finally, the inexplicable atrocity of a season starts to make sense.

Now my thoughts. As many here have said -- there was poison in the locker room (and the classroom) this year. So much that it warranted a coaching change. This blame of course falls on Tedford.

So think about this, please. What would drive such a conservative-minded coach to do something so irrational? People have said how Tedford lost his edge. If believing that Tedford caused all this helps you sleep at night, good for you. However:

If Cal has such an amazing plethora of world class talent, why would Tedford have needed to make such a deal with the devil to get one playmaker?

LessMilesMoreTedford;842019142 said:
...

Let's find a new coach and stop wading in this Page 6 crap.

^Absolutely.
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hanky1
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In reply to Etchebeary • 11:59a, 11/24/12
Etchebeary;842019377 said:
Sycasey and Tree Cutter and Hanky1, yeah I think you guys are right. If there was a little rot early on it didn't really affect the program yet. But when ultra-high profile players started entering the picture the weak spots in Tedford's program erroded much faster.


Yeah things spiraled out of control the past few years.

That's not to say we didn't have a few headcases before. Marshawn was a big bonehead but Gould managed to keep him in check and to prevent his antics from spreading to the rest of the team. And as much of a bonehead Marshawn was, atleast he tried hard.

Tedford was the one responsible for Maynard and his brother. He couldn't keep either of them--or some of the other superstar players we had--in check. Laziness and apathy can spread like wildfire.

Newhouse hinted at the core problem in his article on the front page. Tedford seemed so obsessed at being a 'father figure' to his players. So obsessed with being liked that he let guys get away with too much. Unfortunate because (ironically) I really liked the guy.
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freshfunk
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In reply to Tree Cutter • 12:02p, 11/24/12
Tree Cutter;842019332 said:
You underestimate the hubris of a 18-19-20-21-year old athlete...particular if one has been coddled as the BMOC.

OL doing ole'...happens all the time, not that uncommon. Pride in performance, really? see above about athletic hubris and age. Ever been around 100 18-19-20-year olds?...big ole sausage fest, douche-bag world, who's the biggest jack-off. ****-off somebody that you rely-on to get your job done, see how well they perform for you after some shitty comments. Not a surprise at how the OL performed given the circumstances, like I said, happens all the time. Its the really good teams, clicking on all cylinders, that this doesn't happen. Good coaches figure this stuff real quick....problem is there's not that many good coaches.


I'm sure it happens from time to time, but the whole season?

Like I said the worst performer was the senior who hadn't started until this year when we had no choice. Sloppy play by freshman (penalties) is more about being undisciplined than about whiffing.
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SchadenBear
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In reply to mbBear • 12:07p, 11/24/12
mbBear;842019242 said:
So, it was your sense it was a parent who followed the board? A parent who took the time to figure who should be PM'd?" How many people got PM'd, as alas, I did not?
What was the point contacting you/others considering Tedford has already been fired?


Because Okaydo is a frustrated journalist who spends his days trawling through social media sites. Oh yeah, and also because Okaydo used to pimp The Bachelor to BI's.

N'uff said.
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freshfunk
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In reply to sycasey • 12:07p, 11/24/12
sycasey;842019338 said:
Could be that he just got tired or burnt out and didn't realize himself how badly he'd slipped. It's human nature.

Look, I understand your desire to see the best in Jeff Tedford. I wanted to for a long time too, but at some point the evidence piles up and you have to admit that he's not the man we thought he was (or perhaps that he once was).


Actually it's not that. I have reason to give JT the benefit of the doubt based on his actions and his results. He's built up some credibility. I'm taking that versus some opinions that are being shared second hand that's may or may not be a verified source.

I'm comparing hearsay to actual comments by players and (lack of) performance on the field.

The more I read comments like "I knew it all along" the more it just reads like people are eager to accept anything that confirms their suspicions.

I'm not saying that its categorically untrue. I'm just saying that one shouldn't read too much into a single parents second hand account. Those shoe heard from multiple sources can have more confidence... Of course the rest of us don't really know what exactly they said. We just hear "they said the same thing" whatever that means.
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BerlinerBaer
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In reply to BerlinerBaer • 12:09p, 11/24/12
I have no reason to question the authenticity of the PM that some posters on here have received, although we should remember that this parent has his/her own opinion, particularly when it comes to individual players.

I've defended Maynard a lot on here and I stand by my observations that he was better than AB this season. However, I will agree with the opinion that AB would be better than ZM now if he was given the starting job in '11 instead. It is certainly believable that ZM was given the job at least initially out of consideration of his brother, but that's water under the bridge at this point.

We do know that JT has had problems disciplining the team since Desean was here, and the steadily increasing number of penalties and mistakes and declining APR scores make it obvious that JT was ineffective as a head coach in his later years. Unlike the KA ZM business, all the claims made by the parent regarding lack of discipline are believable and easily supported by our own observations.

There are a number of observations that we as fans can make in the future that would more strongly support the more audacious claims than any hearsay and second hand accounts. We might see a few key players leave the program in the offseason, for example. Also, if the OL is pancaking defenders next year then that would suggest to me the claims of them knowingly underperforming this season were correct. Stay tuned.
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RonO
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In reply to MoragaBear • 12:10p, 11/24/12
MoragaBear;842019382 said:
There are A LOT of bearents on these boards. Many post and many don't.

I've heard from a lot of bearents over the years and know many pretty well and I can tell you from personal experience that you need to take everything with a grain of salt, especially from disgruntled parents. Sometimes there's a lot of truth in what they say and sometimes there's very little. You'd be surprised how little they actually know sometimes because many players don't let their parents into their world and a lot of what parents say and believe is their own conjecture.

I can tell you that most players on the team love and respect Tedford even if they don't agree with all his decisions and that this was not a team swirling with dissention. I can tell you, though, that a very sizeable percentage were extremely frustrated with Tedford's insistence on playing Maynard at all costs and not playing and developing any of the other qb's and that the rumors about Maynard not going to class, cutting out on workouts and nearly being on academic probation were all true. I don't buy at all that 15-20 starters weren't going to class.

I also don't believe that Allen made it clear to the whole team that he wouldn't play if Maynard didn't play. I believe that keeping Keenan happy factored into Tedford's decision-making process but I don't believe it was quid pro quo.

It's also clear that Tedford started to lose a handle on the team in '07. In that year, factions and dissention were very real. Once the cat was out of the bag, I think he began to struggle in ways that weren't much of a factor in previous years, though it was never as bad in the following years as it was in late '07.

To me, it reached the point of no return. There was no way they could bring Tedford back in 2013.


Thank you MB. It's pretty much as I've figured, but my position has been mainly reasoned, not from any inside knowledge. I'm ready for a new coach, and expect at least a minor bowl next year.
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freshfunk
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12:10p, 11/24/12
Rotton Robbie;842019339 said:
There were rumors ALL OFFSEASON about Zach Maynard possibly being suspended the first 4 games because he didn't cut it academically (GPA-wise)for the spring semester. Those rumors were constantly rebuffed on this board, despite constant leaks that there was a real possibility that he was going to miss games. That rumor was sort of squashed when Maynard came out and openly said, "I am not in trouble. I am fine academically." (paraphase)

Yet, when it came to the opening game, Maynard was suspended for essentially a quarter.

2 Takeaways from this:
1) Despite these rumblings and message board rumors, the team had no idea that Maynard was not going to start until the night before the game. How does that make Tedford look as a coach? As in, how does an offseason speculated by rumors about the starting QB being ineligible NOT result in even an advanced warning from the head man?
2) In relation to this thread, the fact that Maynard was suspended for a quarter for "missing a tutoring session" sounds like absolute BS to me. Frankly, it sounds more like a copout, as in... they didn't want to suspend him for 4 games, so Tedford let him off of the hook by only suspending him for 1 quarter and justifying it with the 'missing a tutoring session' crap. Maynard's eligibility for this year was clearly in question, and (in my speculative state) Tedford didn't want to lose him for that long (for whatever reason... come up with your own conclusions) so he tried to justify means with his actions.

Frankly, this is consistent with everything said in this thread (favoritism, academic favoritism, no discipline). Does anybody here actually believe Maynard was only suspended for missing a tutoring session? I certainly don't. There's obviously something bigger going on here, and if you connect the dots, it's not at all hard to figure out.


You may be right but there's a lot of conjecture there and not exactly a solid case being made.

If ZM was truly ineligible I doubt they could get around it.

Also, AB didn't light it up. If he did and ZM still played then I would be more likely to believe the conspiracy.
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freshfunk
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In reply to hanky1 • 12:12p, 11/24/12
hanky1;842019366 said:
Maynard never should have sent foot at Cal. A failure of JT in evaluation and recruiting AND a failure of the admissions committee for letting him in. This guy didn't work hard in the weight room, in the classroom, and in the film room and he was handed the starting job. Total systemic failure by Tedford.

Some folks mentioned why Tedford has changed. Why he was a disciplinary before but not now? Not true. He was NEVER a disciplinary. The difference before was that he had good kids who mostly followed the rules. But in the past few years he recruited a bunch of bums and let them hold him hostage.


D1 athletics with a bunch of "good kids" and no egos?

I don't buy it.
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hanky1
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In reply to freshfunk • 12:22p, 11/24/12
freshfunk;842019401 said:
D1 athletics with a bunch of "good kids" and no egos?

I don't buy it.


See my post below re Marshawn. Not saying they were all
Saints, but the culture was just different. Maybe it was residual fom JT taking over from Holmoe and having so
Many kids believing in him in the beginning. I really dunno.

But JT was never a disciplinary. The harshest punishment DeSean Jackson ever got (besides his half suspension versus Air Force) was to memorize his teammate's names. no kidding. When certain coaches were in charge of discipline, things were ok e.g Gould and Marshwan. They butted heads alot but things worked out. When JT was in charge things didn't always work out.
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GFang
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In reply to bearzilla • 12:26p, 11/24/12
bearzilla;842019384 said:
This. I remember when Keenan Allen withdrew his commitment from Alabama, I thought they were crazy not to throw in a scholarship for his brother to get a 5-star stud like KA. In retrospect, Nick Saban probably saw the writing on the wall and was smart enough to say NO.


THIS. Good on Nick Saban for telling Allen, Maynard, and their mom to F**K off. He did the right thing, and in doing so, saved Alabama's program from potentially unspeakable damage. Now his team will be playing for their second consecutive NC while we're 3-9, LOL.
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SnoozerBear
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In reply to clunkyregistration • 12:31p, 11/24/12
clunkyregistration;842019184 said:
It has been clear for years that Tedford was the "cancer in the locker room"


Tedford may have his flaws as a HC, but his intentions are unquestionable and always in the best interest of Cal.
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SnoozerBear
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In reply to wallyball2003 • 12:32p, 11/24/12
wallyball2003;842019227 said:
My, aren't you witty. I hope you had a big smile when you hit enter, because you truly earned it.


Hey what can I say, I try to keep up with other posters, such as your self.
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SnoozerBear
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In reply to Californication • 12:36p, 11/24/12
Californication;842019285 said:
Probably complete fiction created by Nega's with an agenda.


I know right? Negas like MoragaBear always trying to tear down the program...:sarc:

MoragaBear;842019382 said:
There are A LOT of bearents on these boards. Many post and many don't.

I've heard from a lot of bearents over the years and know many pretty well and I can tell you from personal experience that you need to take everything with a grain of salt, especially from disgruntled parents. Sometimes there's a lot of truth in what they say and sometimes there's very little. You'd be surprised how little they actually know sometimes because many players don't let their parents into their world and a lot of what parents say and believe is their own conjecture.

I can tell you that most players on the team love and respect Tedford even if they don't agree with all his decisions and that this was not a team swirling with dissention. I can tell you, though, that a very sizeable percentage were extremely frustrated with Tedford's insistence on playing Maynard at all costs and not playing and developing any of the other qb's and that the rumors about Maynard not going to class, cutting out on workouts and nearly being on academic probation were all true. I don't buy at all that 15-20 starters weren't going to class.

I also don't believe that Allen made it clear to the whole team that he wouldn't play if Maynard didn't play. I believe that keeping Keenan happy factored into Tedford's decision-making process but I don't believe it was quid pro quo.

It's also clear that Tedford started to lose a handle on the team in '07. In that year, factions and dissention were very real. Once the cat was out of the bag, I think he began to struggle in ways that weren't much of a factor in previous years, though it was never as bad in the following years as it was in late '07.

To me, it reached the point of no return. There was no way they could bring Tedford back in 2013.
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txwharfrat
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In reply to okaydo • 12:36p, 11/24/12
Peterson would be my first choice ... Dykes 2nd ... . I'm just being pragmatic about the butts in seats needed for the next two years versus slowly rebuilding the offense via receuiting into a power run game, for which we have neither the OL or TE's for...
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txwharfrat
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In reply to okaydo • 12:37p, 11/24/12
OK. I thought we wanted to win. nvm... Carry on.
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NYCGOBEARS
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In reply to GFang • 12:39p, 11/24/12
GFang;842019410 said:
THIS. Good on Nick Saban for telling Allen, Maynard, and their mom to F**K off. He did the right thing, and in doing so, saved Alabama's program from potentially unspeakable damage. Now his team will be playing for their second consecutive NC while we're 3-9, LOL.

Wow! Saban saved the Alabama program from Maynard and Allen now?
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sycasey
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In reply to hanky1 • 12:40p, 11/24/12
hanky1;842019366 said:
Some folks mentioned why Tedford has changed. Why he was a disciplinary before but not now? Not true. He was NEVER a disciplinary. The difference before was that he had good kids who mostly followed the rules. But in the past few years he recruited a bunch of bums and let them hold him hostage.


I don't know about that. By the end of the Holmoe era team discipline had definitely disappeared and academic performance was so bad that we got sanctioned. JT's early years saw massive improvement in all facets (with mostly the same players), so he was certainly doing something to improve discipline. There is definitely something to the idea that Tedford's enforcement of discipline slipped along the way.
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OskiMD
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In reply to NYCGOBEARS • 1:12p, 11/24/12
NYCGOBEARS;842019425 said:
Wow! Saban saved the Alabama program from Maynard and Allen now?


Keenan (and Maynard, in a fantasy world where Saban offers him a scholly) would have been out of a scholarship if they tried to pull any shenanigans in Saban's tightly run program.
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Cal_Fan2
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In reply to OskiMD • 1:15p, 11/24/12
OskiMD;842019456 said:
Keenan (and Maynard, in a fantasy world where Saban offers him a scholly) would have been out of a scholarship if they tried to pull any shenanigans in Saban's tightly run program.


If Maynard started skipping training schedules and sleeping on training tables, rest assured that half the Bama team would kick his butt before Saban pulled his schollie.
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Cal Panda Bear
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In reply to Cal_Fan2 • 1:20p, 11/24/12
Here's an interesting question : When Keenan gets drafted in the first round, would all of you cheer for it or continue to hate on him for "ruining" the team?

I have no opinion yet. If the allegations in this thread are true, I can't look at Keenan the same way I did when I was a student cheering for him to succeed. But that being said, he was pretty electrifying to watch.
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Etchebeary
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In reply to Cal_Fan2 • 1:24p, 11/24/12
Cal_Fan2;842019460 said:
If Maynard started skipping training schedules and sleeping on training tables, rest assured that half the Bama team would kick his butt before Saban pulled his schollie.


They would probably shave his eyebrows and draw penises all over his face with a sharpie. Too bad our guys couldn't/didn't do that.
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In reply to hanky1 • 1:26p, 11/24/12
hanky1;842019407 said:
See my post below re Marshawn. Not saying they were all
Saints, but the culture was just different. Maybe it was residual fom JT taking over from Holmoe and having so
Many kids believing in him in the beginning. I really dunno.

But JT was never a disciplinary. The harshest punishment DeSean Jackson ever got (besides his half suspension versus Air Force) was to memorize his teammate's names. no kidding. When certain coaches were in charge of discipline, things were ok e.g Gould and Marshwan. They butted heads alot but things worked out. When JT was in charge things didn't always work out.



I think the big difference, with Lynch and Jackson, football was very important to Lynch, it identified him. Sure there were benefits (girls, smokes...girls), but he knew football was what was going to pull him and his family out of their station in life.

With Jackson, football was just a vehicle for his brand. Jackson was already a one-man marketing team by the time he got to Cal and was looking for the next stage for his star to shine. Cal just happened to be the spot where he could stay close to home, while his star could shine the brightest above the others. Sure U$C would've been a great national platform for him but, its DeSean's world and $C had enough stars to compete with.
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