BearsWiin;842526592 said:

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In Tedford's defense (nm), Bellotti had gone spreadish in the offseason before 2005, and Tedford may have felt the impulse to experiment with the playbook because his mentor was doing it. And Cortez may have left after 2005 anyway, having never received the recognition he may have deserved because everybody was besotted with Tedford-love. I also recall (perhaps incorrectly) you arguing at some point in the last several years that we tried the Dunbar TedSpread for Tennessee, and we rapidly moved away from it in the following weeks because it became clear that we didn't have the personnel to run it effectively. My own impression was that even by 2006 the offensive line was already in decline, the peak being 2005. I can't remember who left between those two years, but I recall feeling that we lost some real fire on the line after 2005.

So I guess what I'm saying it that while I like your story, I'm not sure I buy into it.

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2006 junior/senior OL:
Alex Mack
Mike Gibson
Erik Robertson
Brian De La Puente
Andrew Cameron
Noris Malele
Scott Smith
Chet Teofilo
Mike Tepper

Tight Ends:
Craig Stevens
Cameron Morrah

Fullbacks:
Will Tau'ufo'ou

Running Backs:
Marshawn Lynch
Justin Forsett

Wide Receivers:
Desean Jackson
Lavelle Hawkins
Robert Jordan

killa22, this (#80 in the thread) was really your first post here?!? Dang, keep it comin', man!

socaltownie;842526406 said:

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Can't wade through 6 pages. But here is what I want to watch this year. In my mind one of the features of this offense is trying to create mismatches where you get a WR on a safety. Part of the reasons to run this fast is to make it challenges of subing. Part of the reasons to get balance out of your trap running game is that it keeps defenses honest and keeps their safeties from cheating.

But in my mind (and the Washington game sorta underscored this with a Hatters going Hat way), there are NFL level safeties in the Pac 12 that CAN cover college level WR one-on-one. Indeed, I might argue that it is a feature not a bug of our conference. Smart people than I would be able to opine about HS and youth football on the west coast as to why this is.

So I am going to watch how we do against elite level safeties. If we can pass on them, test passed. If not, then I do wonder whether the TFS can work when you start getting 3-4-5 guys in a secondary who are not coverted Quarterbacks but rather kids that are slotted to be drafted at CB or Safety in the first 2 rounds.

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I don't understand the concern here. Who are you trying to match up your WR's with if not the safeties? The CB's who are really expected to cover WR's 1-on-1? The defense can guarantee that a LB will never carry a WR deep if they want, so you can only get that mismatch on short stuff (which we do). What mismatch should we be trying to create instead? What do other offenses do that ours doesn't to scheme around these NFL level CB's and safeties who can cover 1-on-1?

OaktownBear;842526612 said:

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No, we did not move away from the TedSpread after Tennessee. What we did do was revert as much as you can in a few weeks to our previous offense for the bowl game against Texas A&M. That fact and Dunbar getting pushed out made me think we were going to dump all the Dunbar playbook the next year, but we retained a lot. You may be confusing me with someone else or you may be thinking of my hope when Tedford made Coach M. OC and brought back a lot of the Ol' gang on offense that he was going to bring back the old offense, but my hope proved incorrect. The 2006 offense had a lot of success early with Longshore throwing long, but teams started forcing Longshore to throw underneath and that proved difficult for him and the offense stagnated. But the aTm game was clearly a different story with Cal rushing for 8 yards a carry with Lynch and Forsett running roughshod over them. Maybe things would have declined in later seasons, but if we had run the same offense all year that we ran against aTm, we would have gotten over the hump that year.

You are correct that the peak of the O-line was in 2005, but I wouldn't say we were in decline. We had almost the whole 2004 line back in 2005 and that was just an awesome line. Merz, Philip and O'Callaghan graduated in 2005 and all three were drafted. The 2006 line was not AS good, but we still had good lines in 2006 and 2007. Alex Mack took over the center position in 2006, for instance.

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I may be misremembering your assertion that we moved away from the TedSpread only after the season; I recall, probably incorrectly, that you'd argued that we had done that earlier in the season. I don't think I would have confused you with somebody else.

I believe that the 2005 line was special. Cal still led the league in rushing in a year when everybody knew how lousy the passing game was, and they keyed on Lynch. That's also a testament to Marshawn's ability, I suppose. Losing the three you mentioned, especially O'Callaghan, resulted in a less angry line in 2006. Still very proficient, but not NASTY.

BearsWiin;842526592 said:

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In Tedford's defense (nm), Bellotti had gone spreadish in the offseason before 2005, and Tedford may have felt the impulse to experiment with the playbook because his mentor was doing it. And Cortez may have left after 2005 anyway, having never received the recognition he may have deserved because everybody was besotted with Tedford-love. I also recall (perhaps incorrectly) you arguing at some point in the last several years that we tried the Dunbar TedSpread for Tennessee, and we rapidly moved away from it in the following weeks because it became clear that we didn't have the personnel to run it effectively. My own impression was that even by 2006 the offensive line was already in decline, the peak being 2005. I can't remember who left between those two years, but I recall feeling that we lost some real fire on the line after 2005.

So I guess what I'm saying it that while I like your story, I'm not sure I buy into it.

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We lost Phillip, O'Callaghan, and Merz after 2005, after I recall. The offensive line was especially putrid in the 2005 Oregon State game, when Lynch got hurt and Ayoob was getting harassed. Ayoob got a lot of heat, some deserved - but the offensive line did not give him much time to pass. If you ever have the stomach to watch those 2005 losses, notice how much Ayoob was under pressure.

Cal89;842526552 said:

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Recruiting a Goff-like talent is hard to replicate, and will be only be more challenging with yet another subpar season. The time is absolutely now.

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dont worry if goff opts for NFL with 4 starters coming back on the oline and these RB's plus the receiver targets .. whomever is the next CAL QB the team will be ok ... 3 rd yr of defense ( hopefully progressing)


i think tony has done a decent job coaching up goff and would not expect any different .. with the next stater

going4roses;842526691 said:

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dont worry if goff opts for NFL with 4 starters coming back on the oline and these RB's plus the receiver targets .. whomever is the next CAL QB the team will be ok ... 3 rd yr of defense ( hopefully progressing)


i think tony has done a decent job coaching up goff and would not expect any different .. with the next stater

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feel like forrest should be servicable in the the short term until someone is ready or maybe it will just be forrest

going4roses;842526691 said:

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dont worry if goff opts for NFL with 4 starters coming back on the oline and these RB's plus the receiver targets .. whomever is the next CAL QB the team will be ok ... 3 rd yr of defense ( hopefully progressing)


i think tony has done a decent job coaching up goff and would not expect any different .. with the next stater

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No offense, but expecting our next QB to perform at Goff's level is not realistic. What you smoking, boo? Pass the dutchie to the waaay right hand side.

NYCGOBEARS;842526694 said:

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No offense, but expecting our next QB to perform at Goff's level is not realistic. What you smoking, boo? Pass the dutchie to the waaay right hand side.

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Realistically you get one really good QB every 10 years. ARodg in '04 and Goff now, 2015. You'll see the same thing at Furd. They got Luck and won't get another top QB for 8 more years.

grandmastapoop;842526632 said:

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We lost Phillip, O'Callaghan, and Merz after 2005, after I recall. The offensive line was especially putrid in the 2005 Oregon State game, when Lynch got hurt and Ayoob was getting harassed. Ayoob got a lot of heat, some deserved - but the offensive line did not give him much time to pass. If you ever have the stomach to watch those 2005 losses, notice how much Ayoob was under pressure.

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I don't, really; it's too frustrating. I do remember being angry after the OSU game in 2005, since it seemed like neither team wanted to win that game. I recall that Mebane went out around halftime, and their RB (Bernard?) ran wild on us in the second half, but the turnovers (Ayoob's INTs included) on both sides are what really stick in my memory.

BearsWiin;842526705 said:

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I don't, really; it's too frustrating. I do remember being angry after the OSU game in 2005, since it seemed like neither team wanted to win that game. I recall that Mebane went out around halftime, and their RB (Bernard?) ran wild on us in the second half, but the turnovers (Ayoob's INTs included) on both sides are what really stick in my memory.

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dont blame ayoob, we just needed to have him practice with paper airplanes

NYCGOBEARS;842526694 said:

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No offense, but expecting our next QB to perform at Goff's level is not realistic. What you smoking, boo? Pass the dutchie to the waaay right hand side.

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something told me i might want to put a disclaimer in that post ...

whomever gets the QB job post goff will be prepared and productive ...

going4roses;842526717 said:

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something told me i might want to put a disclaimer in that post ...

someone that will be prepared and productive ...

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There we go. I approve! :p

lol

beelzebear;842526700 said:

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Realistically you get one really good QB every 10 years. ARodg in '04 and Goff now, 2015. You'll see the same thing at Furd. They got Luck and won't get another top QB for 8 more years.

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Some coaches get a good qb every 10 years, others every 5 years and some never. Do you think Goff would be a predicted first round pick if Tedford was still coach?

There's a good chance that he'd be Kline's backup.

oski003;842526726 said:

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Some coaches get a good qb every 10 years, others every 5 years and some never. Do you think Goff would be a predicted first round pick if Tedford was still coach?

There's a good chance that he'd be Kline's backup.

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good point

gobears725;842526707 said:

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dont blame ayoob, we just needed to have him practice with paper airplanes

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I don't blame Ayoob at all. If I ever run into him, I'll shake his hand if he'll let me, buy him a drink, and thank him for his service. Same with Vedder. You shed blood sweat and tears for the cause, like they did, then I'm with you.

BearsWiin;842526728 said:

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I don't blame Ayoob at all. If I ever run into him, I'll shake his hand if he'll let me, buy him a drink, and thank him for his service. Same with Vedder. You shed blood sweat and tears for the cause, like they did, then I'm with you.

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+1 Ayoob is still a Golden Bear.

BearsWiin;842526705 said:

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I don't, really; it's too frustrating. I do remember being angry after the OSU game in 2005, since it seemed like neither team wanted to win that game. I recall that Mebane went out around halftime, and their RB (Bernard?) ran wild on us in the second half, but the turnovers (Ayoob's INTs included) on both sides are what really stick in my memory.

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At one point in that game Ayoob had a stretch where he was 4-21

OaktownBear;842526737 said:

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At one point in that game Ayoob had a stretch where he was 4-21

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Please, just stop.

As my youngest used to scream from the back seat of the minivan on road trips when we drove by a McDonald's without stopping: "FRUSTRATION!!!"

OaktownBear;842526737 said:

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At one point in that game Ayoob had a stretch where he was 4-21

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Oregon State seems to do that to our QBs quite a bit. Aaron Rodgers in 2003 was 9-34, I believe.

SanseiBear;842526743 said:

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Oregon State seems to do that to our QBs quite a bit. Aaron Rodgers in 2003 was 9-34, I believe.

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9-34 for 56 yards, the week after the USC win. OSU DBs were disrupting WR routes aggressively at the line of scrimmage. Rodgers' knee might not have been feeling well either, after his injury in the USC game.

Lets not forget Dykes and Franklin's previous qb...they managed to get him to be pretty productive...
http://www.latechsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/colby_cameron_361142.html

One thing I like about this staff is that they seem willing to give the young qb's snaps during the season to at least get their feet wet.

going4roses;842526691 said:

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dont worry if goff opts for NFL with 4 starters coming back on the oline and these RB's plus the receiver targets .. whomever is the next CAL QB the team will be ok ... 3 rd yr of defense ( hopefully progressing)

i think tony has done a decent job coaching up goff and would not expect any different .. with the next stater

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I wish I could feel the same... It has taken Goff and a wonderful group of receivers over a thousand passes in this System (remarkable in two years) to get this offense to where it is today. And, where we are at this moment is still not the destination... Hopefully things really click this year; and I remain optimistic that will be the case.

berk18;842526622 said:

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I don't understand the concern here. Who are you trying to match up your WR's with if not the safeties? The CB's who are really expected to cover WR's 1-on-1? The defense can guarantee that a LB will never carry a WR deep if they want, so you can only get that mismatch on short stuff (which we do). What mismatch should we be trying to create instead? What do other offenses do that ours doesn't to scheme around these NFL level CB's and safeties who can cover 1-on-1?

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Lots of questions here. Lets look at how the best defense in the conference has TRADITIONALLY dealt with the pass. See diagrams 2 and 3 in particular
http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=308

Now again, when you are playing San Jose state you just LOVE to see teams come out and try to defend the TFS system that way. You have the possibility of isolating that free safety lined up against the slot guy....a free safety who is gasping for air....who is trying to make sense of a bunch of different looks....and who can't cheat because of the trap with the back. You ping ping ping with short stuff and then can hit that guy long.

But against Shaq Thompson that just doesn't work. He can cover any wide receiver we have 1 on 1 over the entire field. You can help out the weakest CB with a Nickle. Since we have taken a lot of the power running game out of the equation the safety can further cheat. You have to guard against the trap but don't have to worry about, for example, the sweep or a power counter.

How other teams do it (for example Oregon) is to use spread principals to isolate the LINEBACKERS and edge defenders in space. They force the safeties up to defend more in the interior (again, watch how Woebegone's option run starts by probing each hole, starting the B gap and goes outside only as the last option. Once pulled in and supporting the run, even Shaq Thompson is a bit at a disadvantage - especially if you can (again, see Woebegone) sell the run option and then pull it out and hit the post.

Again, I said I am watching. Near as I can tell, Su'a Craven (USC) is the best safety we are likely to see this year. Watch him in that game. See how he does - how much he is isolated and how well he does. If we can pass on him, we can pass on most (any?) teams and that will be a big test for the TFS. If not, then it is another piece of evidence that the system struggles when you start to have NFL (and at least a few sites have Craven as a first round) quality guys in the secondary.

Any good D Line hurts an offense, right? Especially against an OLine that we all know has been sub-par. How did this thread get to 10 pages?

Oh I see, it went off-topic.

lol

i thought sua was a LB last season and this no ?

going4roses;842526899 said:

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i thought sua was an LB last season and this no ?

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He is projected by most to be a safety at the next level. I thought they used him mostly as a jack of all trades since he can cover many (most?) guys lining up in the slot.

ok coverage LB / S rover gotacha

FrankBear21;842526895 said:

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Any good D Line hurts an offense, right? Especially against an OLine that we all know has been sub-par. How did this thread get to 10 pages?

Oh I see, it went off-topic.

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Maybe so but it is threads like this that separates this site from any other one I have seen. Some real football discussion from a lot of guys who know what they are talking about.