Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

TheSouseFamily said:

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concordtom said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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This will allow the German staff members the time to focus on their FIFA inquiry for their unsporting actions after the Sweden match. I bet they feel pretty stupid now.

Oj Vad Vi ar Bra Alla Svenska Vanner Oj!!

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What unsporting are you talking about??

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I was referring to this, Tom, see below. Really not that big of a deal but the two staffers did indeed get suspended and banned from the sideline by their own federation for today's match. I like Germany and wish they had advanced but was surprised to see this very unGerman-like behavior coming from them.

And in the grand scheme of things, it's not nearly as disturbing as Joachim Low scratching his marble bag and smelling his fingers.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2018/06/23/janne-andersson-sweden-germany-world-cup/728499002/

For the daring and not easily nauseated, here's Joakim Low: https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/6/15/11945578/germany-coach-jorgi-low-scratch-groin-butt-sniff-apologize-euro-2016

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The jock scratch was no big deal.
The buttocks pick, examine, and sniff was totally gross.

As for the discipline incident:
A video says a thousand words (taunting following Germany's go ahead goal over Sweden):
Thanks.

concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

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FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bottom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of over 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16. I know, I know, the center of Soccer power is Europe abd South Anerica, but still ..

Go Bears!

calbear80 said:

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concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

---

FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bittom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of close to 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16.

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What else would you suggest? Prior to this year, it would have been a coin flip (here, had they tied on the "Fair Play" rules, it would have). There's not much left to break a tie. Shots on target? Saves? Time of possession?

concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

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So that's what the Japanese players were doing when the clock was winding down. They were calculating how many cards they had accumulated to figure out if they would advance so they could either celebrate on the pitch or just collapse.

The Fair Play tie breaker at least aims to promote/reward clean play and given FIFA...they could use something like this. So Japan milked it. It's all within the rules. Everyone got the same deal and any other team in the same situation would do the exact same.

Another Bear said:

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The Fair Play tie breaker at least aims to promote/reward clean play and given FIFA...they could use something like this. So Japan milked it. It's all within the rules. Everyone got the same deal and any other team in the same situation would do the exact same.

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Exactly. They played within the rules. If the tiebreaker was something different but equally irrelevant, like most corner kicks or fewest water bottles used by the goalkeeper, then each team would have tried to prevail on that tiebreaker.

BearSD said:

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Another Bear said:

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The Fair Play tie breaker at least aims to promote/reward clean play and given FIFA...they could use something like this. So Japan milked it. It's all within the rules. Everyone got the same deal and any other team in the same situation would do the exact same.

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Exactly. They played within the rules. If the tiebreaker was something different but equally irrelevant, like most corner kicks or fewest water bottles used by the goalkeeper, then each team would have tried to prevail on that tiebreaker.

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And everyone, fans included, knew the rules as it played out. It was known by all if Senegal did not win that they were out in Group. Very tough indeed, but it is not much different than goal differential, most goals, least goals or any other solution than head to head. But all of those were in play and it came down to "fair play" which everyone understood as the game was waning was coming into play. Would not want to be the player that gained the yellow card that put them out of the Cup though.

Senegal showed themselves very well though and hopefully will look on better days.

GMP said:

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calbear80 said:

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concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

---

FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bottom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of close to 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16.

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What else would you suggest? Prior to this year, it would have been a coin flip (here, had they tied on the "Fair Play" rules, it would have). There's not much left to break a tie. Shots on target? Saves? Time of possession?

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You have a good point there.

While in Russia for the games, I had heard that the very last tie-breaker was the the team with higher FIFA ranking would advance.

Can someone verify that? Was that maybe the previous rule?

Go Bears!

Missing Being At The World Cup:

I have been back less than 20 hours and I already miss being in the middle of all the World Cup action.

To see the Iranian Goalie (who was the lowest level construction laborer only four years ago) block a Chritian Ronaldo penalty kick on Monday night leading to a 1-1 tie game in Saransk was amazing.

To see thousands of fans sitting/laying around in the train station waiting for the next available train out of town at 2 AM after the game in Saransk is hard to get out of mind.

Taking a 10+ hour overnight train to Moscow was quite an experience. Moscow train station and getting lost in Moscow ... another story for another day.

To be in the Red Square and Moscow Kremlin on Tuesday night with tens of thousands of fans from all over the World was intoxicating.

And, that was only the last 30 hours of the trip!

Crazy, I am already thinking of going back around July 9 for the semi-finals and final game. Yes, crazy.

Maybe, after I overcome this jet-lag, my sanity returns and I get back to my normal routine!

Go Bears!

calbear80 said:

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concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

---

FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bottom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of over 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16. I know, I know, the center of Soccer power is Europe abd South Anerica, but still ..

Go Bears!

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It's trivial at this point, because Belgium would bounce out either team.

Kudos to CONMEBOL, 4 out of 5 teams through, only Peru failed to advance.

Countries like Iran, Morocco, Senegal or S. Korea are leaving with their head held high, they're shown they're worthy of being a part of the WC, but are still a cut below the best of Europe and South America, at least in this edition.

calbear80 said:

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Crazy, I am already thinking of going back around July 9 for the semi-finals and final game. Yes, crazy. Go Bears!

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Aren't those matches sold out? How would you get tickets?

Bear19 said:

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calbear80 said:

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Crazy, I am already thinking of going back around July 9 for the semi-finals and final game. Yes, crazy. Go Bears!

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Aren't those matches sold out? How would you get tickets?

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Yes, almost all the World Cup matches were sold out.

But, I'd think thousands of German fans who had bought semi-finals and finals tickets thinking their team will be there, would be trying to unload their tickets. By Saturday hunderes of fans of either Argentina or France and either Potgual or Uruguay will be looking to cash their semi-finals and finals tickets. And so on.

So, I'd think tickets will be available if one is willing to pay the high price, except perhaps for the finals match in Moscow where the power people (FIFA, sports, Russians and governments) will be attending.

On Friday , I am going to contact the travel agency that got me my previous game tickets (including two VIP box tickets) and find out.

One problem is that FIFA sells each ticket to a specific "FAN ID" holder (to avoid scalping around the stadium). I need to figure out how the FIFA ticket transfer process works.

Maybe, by then, my sanity returns and I decide to watch the rest of the matches on TV!

Go Bears!

calbear80 said:

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Bear19 said:

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calbear80 said:

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Crazy, I am already thinking of going back around July 9 for the semi-finals and final game. Yes, crazy. Go Bears!

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Aren't those matches sold out? How would you get tickets?

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Yes, almost all the World Cup matches were sold out.

But, I'd think thousands of German fans who had bought semi-finals and finals tickets thinking their team will be there, would be trying to unload their tickets. By Saturday hunderes of fans of either Argentina or France and either Potgual or Uruguay will be looking to cash their semi-finals and finals tickets. And so on.

So, I'd think tickets will be available if one is willing to pay the high price, except perhaps for the finals match in Moscow where the power people (FIFA, sports, Russians and governments) will be attending.

On Friday , I am going to contact the travel agency that got me my previous game tickets (including two VIP box tickets) and find out.

One problem is that FIFA sells each ticket to a specific "FAN ID" holder (to avoid scalping around the stadium). I need to figure out how the FIFA ticket transfer process works.

Maybe, by then, my sanity returns and I decide to watch the rest of the matches on TV!

Go Bears!

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Keep the postings coming, and embellish with as much as detail as possible. Loved the 1994 WC when it came to Stanfurd and the town of Los Gatos was overrun with Brazilians.

The games in this WC have been the best ever regardless of your preferences. So many games and groups going down to the last minutes of group play to determine who advances and who goes home. And then the fair play rule. This is all too exciting. Hope it continues in the knock out rounds.

GMP said:

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calbear80 said:

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concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

---

FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bittom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of close to 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16.

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What else would you suggest? Prior to this year, it would have been a coin flip (here, had they tied on the "Fair Play" rules, it would have). There's not much left to break a tie. Shots on target? Saves? Time of possession?

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Time of possession IN THE ATTACKING HALF!!
Nobody wants to see teams pass back to keeper for half of the game.

Why not use that instead of PK's?

Have a clock like in chess where the timer flips as the ball crosses half. Also, any time the ball goes out of play or is stopped due to foul, the clock stops.
This would encourage GK's getting the ball back into play quicker. It would encourage defenders pushing up and not just parking the bus.

concordtom said:

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GMP said:

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calbear80 said:

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concordtom said:

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Japan advances ahead of Senegal by use of (first time ever) the fair play tiebreaker:

Fifa's fair play rules explained
The fair play points system in which the number of yellow and red cards in all group matches is considered according to the following deductions:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• second yellow card/indirect red card: minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points

---

FIFA UNFAIR!

I like Japan and Japanese people (have been there half dozen times and enjoyed it greatly).

But, it is a shame that Senegal is eliminated on such a wishy washy first-time ever "rule"

I was in the Red Square and Kremlin on Tuesday night. It is hard not to love the Senegal fans' enthusiasm and music. From a distance, I thought they were Brazilian. When I got closer I loved the dress, the head custom and the lion head.

Bittom Line: Asia, Africa and Australia continents combine with a population of close to 5.6 Billion (over 75% of population of earth), but, have a grand total of one team in the round of 16.

---

What else would you suggest? Prior to this year, it would have been a coin flip (here, had they tied on the "Fair Play" rules, it would have). There's not much left to break a tie. Shots on target? Saves? Time of possession?

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Time of possession IN THE ATTACKING HALF!!
Nobody wants to see teams pass back to keeper for half of the game.

Why not use that instead of PK's?

Have a clock like in chess where the timer flips as the ball crosses half. Also, any time the ball goes out of play or is stopped due to foul, the clock stops.
This would encourage GK's getting the ball back into play quicker. It would encourage defenders pushing up and not just parking the bus.

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OK, since we are all throwing things out to be considered, let me do the same.

Number of corner kicks

After the goals scored, the best indication of goid offense is:
. Shots on goal
. Shots
. Corner kicks earned.

Go Bears!

Thank you for playing!

If you've been paying attention to my posts over the years you'll know that I've been coaching and reffing soccer for the past 12 years with my 5 kids. Hundreds of games! I've thought about this a LOT and discussed it much with others.

We've talked about how to get increased scoring but none of those solutions are great. Many take away from the beautiful game.

If you make the goal size bigger, there is no intricate play to needle the ball past 11 and into the net. Instead you just encourage blasted shot from afar. No more beautiful game.

In this spirit, shots on goal is a terrible tool to decide a tie! You'd encourage teams to simply kick the ball to the keeper and call it a "shot on goal". So, that doesn't work.

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I would consider corners. Teams could drop the ball into the corner and try and kick it off the defender, which then encourages the defender to take a chance at not conceding the corner, which then results in the offensive player getting past him and crushing into the box from the baseline, which raises exciting possibilities.

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Time of possession is the other one I like best. Caveats:
Clock must stop while out of play, otherwise wasting time creates boredom.
I'd actually create a neutral zone between the center circle (like hockey), where neither team gets credit for time.

One bad unintended outcome is defenders who just boot the ball to the other side.

My scoreboard would count something like the following:
Win: 3 points
Winning tie: 1.25 points
Losing tie: .75 points
Loss: 0 points

No More straight up ties in soccer!
Winning Tie
or
Losing Tie
!!!!!!

Better tiebreakers:

- Best uniforms (advantage: Nigeria)
- best 3 out of 5 bare knuckle boxing brawls with each side choosing its top 5 (advantage: Russia)
- Most attractive fans (advantage: Sweden)

There is definitely a difference between an attacking team getting a 1-1 tie and a park the bus and oh we got a PK goal team getting a 1-1'tie.

Being a fan of England, I'm surprised you didn't suggest best streakers! England would definitely win.

Female streakers count twice as much as men.
Who says nobody loves a tie?
The final 10 minutes of a tie game would see a parade of naked women from both sides pouring onto the field.
NOT boring!

Time of possession as tiebreaker:

Any time live ball is in your attacking third is to your credit.
Any time live ball is in middle third, neither team gets credit.
Any time live ball is in your defensive third, other team is getting credit.

Dead ball, out of bounds ball, nobody gets time credit.



Disincentivizes defense from playing ball back to keeper.
Incentivized offense to press forward and trap or re-win possession in their attacking third.
Field gets stretched, creating more exciting fast break opportunities.
Players get tired faster, rewarding fit teams, and creating more late goal scoring as players fatigue and make mistakes.

concordtom said:

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Thank you for playing!

If you've been paying attention to my posts over the years you'll know that I've been coaching and reffing soccer for the past 12 years with my 5 kids. Hundreds of games! I've thought about this a LOT and discussed it much with others.

We've talked about how to get increased scoring but none of those solutions are great. Many take away from the beautiful game.

If you make the goal size bigger, there is no intricate play to needle the ball past 11 and into the net. Instead you just encourage blasted shot from afar. No more beautiful game.

In this spirit, shots on goal is a terrible tool to decide a tie! You'd encourage teams to simply kick the ball to the keeper and call it a "shot on goal". So, that doesn't work.

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I would consider corners. Teams could drop the ball into the corner and try and kick it off the defender, which then encourages the defender to take a chance at not conceding the corner, which then results in the offensive player getting past him and crushing into the box from the baseline, which raises exciting possibilities.

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Time of possession is the other one I like best. Caveats:
Clock must stop while out of play, otherwise wasting time creates boredom.
I'd actually create a neutral zone between the center circle (like hockey), where neither team gets credit for time.

One bad unintended outcome is defenders who just boot the ball to the other side.

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Sudden death overtime with no goalies.

No need to change the rules, the game is great as it is.

Kylian killed it!!!!


5 years ago.

Any comments on Team Russia? They've scored a crazy amount of goals, got a super easy group (easiest in history) beat two weak teams and advanced in the easy/weak side of the round of 16 devoid of any WC blueblood and/or champions.

Can we believe what we see at Putin's World Cup?

calumnus said:

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Sudden death overtime with no goalies.

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Reason why they killed the golden goal is that no ref wanted to decide a match with his whistle and so games turned into slugfests, which became ugly and unacceptable. Clear and obvious PK's weren't called.

My prior best game of tourney was Spain Portugal 3-3, but watching Mbappe take out Argentina was "killer".
All I could see was Jahvid Best sprinting past everyone for Team USA.
We have the opportunity to dominate when football turns into futbol in this country. So much raw talent!

Spain Russia will be worth watching if only because they are the hosts and laid some tallies on the board.
I think. It's everyone predicts Spain to win.

Someone made the comment about Russia giving Spain bad food, but I suspect they've brought their own food and water. Putin could orchestrate some sort of gas that makes La Roja weary, though.

Logically everyone assumes Spain will level Russia. I assume that too but they're playing poorly...and Russia. Let me put it this way, if Russia beats Spain, after getting all the cupcakes, then something is up. Of course maybe Russia simply wanted a respectable showing at their own party, which getting to the final 16 does. Still to have things line up like they have, super lucky or very unusual.

After additional thought, I realize my Time of Ball in Attacking Third as a way of settling ties would reduce the skill level of learning to "play out of the back". But perhaps more is gained by forcing a more proactive risk taking game. Less "beautiful game", more pinball where speed and skill gets to those loose booted balls.

How many teams are doping right now?
Is that what you mean by something being up?

Russia got the favorable grouping. That might be home field advantage as the host, although it seems fishy. They did however score a bunch (a record) and they got busted big time in 2016 for doping, and a long history of it. I can't say for sure but I'd say there's a good chance...but right, what other teams have doped.