and we almost beat them.
In fact, they needed a bit of luck to beat us.

Stating the obvious here but personally I did not think WSU was going to end up knocking on the BCS playoff door this year, even when they beat us.

They beat us in the last few minutes of the game. We needed a bit of luck as well (fumbled pick six for a touchback for example) to stay with them. Either way, Cal didn't look terrible so progress is always good

Cal played a top 10 team to almost a draw.

The Apple Cup should be a good game

I just don't see the UW offense keeping up with WSU. If they get up a couple of touchdowns UW will be hard pressed to catch them.

And on that analysis, Cal is in good company! Go Bears!! See you all on Saturday, December 1st, at 12! Section TT! Can't wait!

One thing is for sure.
WSU is way better than Ohio St.
Same offense but WSU has a defense.
Ohio St. does not.

heartofthebear said:

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and we almost beat them.
In fact, they needed a bit of luck to beat us.

Stating the obvious here but personally I did not think WSU was going to end up knocking on the BCS playoff door this year, even when they beat us.

---

I've been a sceptic all season, partly due to distaste for the system, partly from adherence to the belief they'll "Coug" it at some inappropriate juncture but I'm beginning to inch toward the bandwagon. This team is different largely in that Minshew is the most effective QB by far that Leach has had in Pullman. Also, the undersized defense has played far better than anyone could have expected. I still think UW will find a way to knock them off in the Apple Cup but, truly, it is the Huskies who have sleep walked through much of this season while the Cougs have risen to the occasion, so my faith in Petersen may be unfounded.

Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

SoFlaBear said:

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Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

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I would not bet on Oklahoma beating W. Virginia and Will Grier in Blacksburg.

heartofthebear said:

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SoFlaBear said:

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Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

---

I would not bet on Oklahoma beating W. Virginia and Will Grier in Blacksburg.

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I think you mean Morgantown. Va Tech is in Blacksburg (I have a nephew there)

calgldnbear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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SoFlaBear said:

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Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

---

I would not bet on Oklahoma beating W. Virginia and Will Grier in Blacksburg.

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I think you mean Morgantown. Va Tech is in Blacksburg (I have a nephew there)

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Damn! I was going to bet him whatever he wanted that West Virginia wouldn't win in Blacksburg! :P

I take the point, though. The flip side is if OK gets the win, they are cemented at 5, pending the Big 12 championship.

And UCF is unbeaten and just beat a ranked opponent, so there's that.

SoFlaBear said:

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calgldnbear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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SoFlaBear said:

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Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

---

I would not bet on Oklahoma beating W. Virginia and Will Grier in Blacksburg.

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I think you mean Morgantown. Va Tech is in Blacksburg (I have a nephew there)

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Damn! I was going to bet him whatever he wanted that West Virginia wouldn't win in Blacksburg! :P

I take the point, though. The flip side is if OK gets the win, they are cemented at 5, pending the Big 12 championship.

And UCF is unbeaten and just beat a ranked opponent, so there's that.

---

LOL, I'm having more senior moments these days, senior in high school that is.

Interesting that is where the past WSU DC works now and Leach found a Coordinator that was smart enough to roll with pieces left for him to work with

WSU proves that anyone can win in college football. They recruit to terrible area. Their degree no prestigious. They no have big budget. But they win.

Cal Strong saw USC postgame video in which weak SC fans sounded a lot like the weakest of the Cal fans. "We will never win until the University starts supporting the football program with more money, blah, blah, blah."

There no reason Cal can't do what WSU did. We are better university in every way and have much better recruiting advantages, facilities, money, etc..

Wilcox pretty strong. Definitely not weak. Now it time to be strongest. If WSU can do it, so can we.

Look ..... love him or hate him everyone has to admit that the Mad Pirate is one hell of a college football coach.

Cal Strong! said:

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WSU proves that anyone can win in college football. They recruit to terrible area. Their degree no prestigious. They no have big budget. But they win.

Cal Strong saw USC postgame video in which weak SC fans sounded a lot like the weakest of the Cal fans. "We will never win until the University starts supporting the football program with more money, blah, blah, blah."

There no reason Cal can't do what WSU did. We are better university in every way and have much better recruiting advantages, facilities, money, etc..

Wilcox pretty strong. Definitely not weak. Now it time to be strongest. If WSU can do it, so can we.

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WSU enrolls a lot of players who couldn't get in or stay eligible at Cal (and most other PAC12 schools). Not that he had any interest in Cal, but could we have found a grad program for Minshew at the 11th hour the way that WSU did? In general, I think academics are less an issue for us than most do but one area where they are significant is that a "quick fix" JC/grad transfer infusion is tougher at Berkeley.

txwharfrat said:

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Look ..... love him or hate him everyone has to admit that the Mad Pirate is one hell of a college football coach.

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Yeah.... hence the thread...

I think UW wins the Apple cup. WSU has been trashing the bottom of the conference but played very close games against the better teams. They're likely to make a couple more mistakes than UW and coug it in historical fashion.

PtownBear1 said:

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I think UW wins the Apple cup. WSU has been trashing the bottom of the conference but played very close games against the better teams. They're likely to make a couple more mistakes than UW and coug it in historical fashion.

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Disagree
That was the point of the thread.
WSU is not just getting by.
They are really good.
Washington fits the description of a team just getting by.
The game is in Pullman so no 12th man advantage in Puget Sound

heartofthebear said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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I think UW wins the Apple cup. WSU has been trashing the bottom of the conference but played very close games against the better teams. They're likely to make a couple more mistakes than UW and coug it in historical fashion.

---

Disagree
That was the point of the thread.
WSU is not just getting by.
They are really good.
Washington fits the description of a team just getting by.
The game is in Pullman so no 12th man advantage in Puget Sound

---

I agree. Here's what's different this year: UW won't get pressure on Minshew with just a four man pass rush. That's key. Minshew will hit guys if he has time or if you don't drop enough into coverage (ie blitz). I this WSU scores a lot.

Well we shall see in a few hours. I definitely would prefer a WSU victory though

heartofthebear said:

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One thing is for sure.
WSU is way better than Ohio St.
Same offense but WSU has a defense.
Ohio St. does not.

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Disagree. switch the schedules and I think WSU has more than 1-loss. tOSU has wins on the road at Penn State in a white out at night, on the road in East Lansing against Michigan State, and against TCU in Arlington. Of course their toughest game is Saturday against #3 Michigan.

I think tOSU should be ranked ahead of WSU because of the following: Wyoming, San Jose, and Eastern Washington.

WSU loses tonight...

bigcocoon007 said:

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heartofthebear said:

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One thing is for sure.
WSU is way better than Ohio St.
Same offense but WSU has a defense.
Ohio St. does not.

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Disagree. switch the schedules and I think WSU has more than 1-loss. tOSU has wins on the road at Penn State in a white out at night, on the road in East Lansing against Michigan State, and against TCU in Arlington. Of course their toughest game is Saturday against #3 Michigan.

I think tOSU should be ranked ahead of WSU because of the following: Wyoming, San Jose, and Eastern Washington.

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Oregon state, TCU, Tulane. That's not a lot better

Granted wsu's schedule wasn't that difficult,but besides penn state, Ohio state has not played anyone either.

Michigan state would be a middle tier pac 12 team. In fact, if cal played MSU, I'd like our chances.

Rutgers, Indiana, minn, neb, Maryland. Those are Ohio states other wins. Oregon, furd, cal, Utah would beat all those teams.

calgldnbear said:

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heartofthebear said:

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SoFlaBear said:

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Clemson, Alabama, and Notre Dame look like locks to me.

Michigan at 4 is dependent on the Ohio State game and the B1G playoff. I don't think Ohio State should like their chances of getting into the playoff after the performance at Maryland. That said, Wazzu probably shot themselves in the foot with their creampuff offseason schedule, and the general national perception that the PAC is down this year.

All things being equal, I think Oklahoma will end up in the #4 spot.

---

I would not bet on Oklahoma beating W. Virginia and Will Grier in Blacksburg.

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I think you mean Morgantown. Va Tech is in Blacksburg (I have a nephew there)

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I have a nephew at V. Tech too.

82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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I think UW wins the Apple cup. WSU has been trashing the bottom of the conference but played very close games against the better teams. They're likely to make a couple more mistakes than UW and coug it in historical fashion.

---

Disagree
That was the point of the thread.
WSU is not just getting by.
They are really good.
Washington fits the description of a team just getting by.
The game is in Pullman so no 12th man advantage in Puget Sound

---

I agree. Here's what's different this year: UW won't get pressure on Minshew with just a four man pass rush. That's key. Minshew will hit guys if he has time or if you don't drop enough into coverage (ie blitz). I this WSU scores a lot.

---

Shows what I know.

heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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I think UW wins the Apple cup. WSU has been trashing the bottom of the conference but played very close games against the better teams. They're likely to make a couple more mistakes than UW and coug it in historical fashion.

---

Disagree
That was the point of the thread.
WSU is not just getting by.
They are really good.
Washington fits the description of a team just getting by.
The game is in Pullman so no 12th man advantage in Puget Sound

---

I agree. Here's what's different this year: UW won't get pressure on Minshew with just a four man pass rush. That's key. Minshew will hit guys if he has time or if you don't drop enough into coverage (ie blitz). I this WSU scores a lot.

---

Shows what I know.

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You were right. I didn't factor in that Minshew and his receivers look like **** in the snow. Oh well.

Yeah they were exposed. No pac 12 team in the playoff. Go Bears!!

sonofabear51 said:

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Yeah they were exposed. No pac 12 team in the playoff. Go Bears!!

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To sum up: Wazzu is not really good. They're pretty good. Reminds a bit of Cal 2015. Offense looks great against ok defenses, but is shut down against good ones. The clue for those shouting their praises here should have been our game against them - we should have won, in Pullman, and would have if our offense could have mustered a damn thing.

Update:

UW's Jimmy Lake, whose name many of us here know, on Wazzu's offense:

"We know what type of offense we're playing. They do the same thing year in and year out. This is five years in a row now. So it makes it really easy to game-plan when an offense dos the same thing every year."

(Surprised they haven't tried any adjustments in five years?) "It does surprise me. But knowing what I read about the head football coach here, he does things a little bit different way. So hopefully he remains here for a long time. That would be awesome."

Amen.

The pac-12 this year has been a bevy of betrayal.
Once you believe in a team, they lose big time.

heartofthebear said:

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and we almost beat them.
In fact, they needed a bit of luck to beat us.

Stating the obvious here but personally I did not think WSU was going to end up knocking on the BCS playoff door this year, even when they beat us.

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Really good in fair weather; not good at all in snow.

GMP said:

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To sum up: Wazzu is not really good. They're pretty good. Reminds a bit of Cal 2015.

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Cal lost five games in 2015, had losing Pac-12 record, finished second to last in the North, and went to a weak bowl.

GMP said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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Yeah they were exposed. No pac 12 team in the playoff. Go Bears!!

---

To sum up: Wazzu is not really good. They're pretty good. Reminds a bit of Cal 2015. Offense looks great against ok defenses, but is shut down against good ones. The clue for those shouting their praises here should have been our game against them - we should have won, in Pullman, and would have if our offense could have mustered a damn thing.

Update:

UW's Jimmy Lake, whose name many of us here know, on Wazzu's offense:

"We know what type of offense we're playing. They do the same thing year in and year out. This is five years in a row now. So it makes it really easy to game-plan when an offense dos the same thing every year."

(Surprised they haven't tried any adjustments in five years?) "It does surprise me. But knowing what I read about the head football coach here, he does things a little bit different way. So hopefully he remains here for a long time. That would be awesome."

Amen.

---

Leach has often said, particularly when criticized about clock management, that his team will do what it does regardless of what the opponent does or the game situation. The offense is really pretty simple with 2-4 basic run plays and a few standard pass route trees. It requires good protection (which they got) and one of the half dozen or so potential receivers to get some separation or make a run after the catch (which they didn't). One of the strengths of UW's defense is the tackling of LBs and DBs and it showed last night. Leach does what he does very well but, at times, his stubbornness bites him.

Pirate Mike operates on pirate logic. The thing is, most pirates don't anticipate snow.

No snow and WSU has a better chance but that's the deal with all-pass no run. Something sh*t/snow happens.

Wilner has it right. Leach is obviously a great coach and a great coach for Wazzu. Doesn't mean it's an ideal combo to beat Peterson/UW. Their output against both UW and Cal says something.

Cal Strong! said:

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GMP said:

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To sum up: Wazzu is not really good. They're pretty good. Reminds a bit of Cal 2015.

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Cal lost five games in 2015, had losing Pac-12 record, finished second to last in the North, and went to a weak bowl.

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And the PAC-12 this year is weak at the top, allowing a middling team to meekly bubble to the top.