01Bear said:
OaktownBear said:
01Bear said:
OaktownBear said:
Cave Bear said:
MoragaBear said:
Notre Dame is scheduled out for years. EVERYONE wants them on their schedule. There was supposedly no way to make a return game work. Just way too much juggling involved.
According to fbschedules.com Notre Dame is only fully scheduled for next season and 2021. They have ten games already scheduled for each season between 2022 and 2025, after which their number of scheduled games drops to single digits.
We waited 6 years to get our return visit from Michigan State. If it takes longer then so be it, both of our programs would still be around in 2030 if it took that long. Being "scheduled out for years" should have nothing to do with this. Obviously ND did not wish to make a return visit and our AD was willing to accommodate, and our motives for doing so are fairly obvious at this point.
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If the choice is between adding an amazing roadtrip that will simultaneously reward our fans, raise our profile, add 1.9m in revenue but not get a return trip vs. status quo, there's not even a millimeter of doubt in my mind about taking option 1.
Reward our fans? You mean the ~5,000 who will be making the trip, not the other ~30,000 (or more) who would have attended our scheduled home game vs UNLV. They are "rewarded" with the amazing experience of watching television from their couch.
Raise our profile? Only if we win. Consider the following:
-- Since 2010, Pac-12 teams are 3-24 when visiting ranked OOC teams (including 0-4 at "neutral" sites that were much closer to the OOC's home) and 19-8 when hosting ranked OOC teams. Ranked Pac-12 teams are 1-11 away (plus "neutral") and 8-0 at home.
-- Since 2010 (the year Brian Kelly became HC), Notre Dame is 7-3 vs Pac-12 teams at home, 4-7 on the road (not counting a win vs ASU at a neutral site in Texas).
-- Since 2000, we have played four games vs ranked OOC teams on the road (including a game vs KSU in Kansas City, MO) and went 1-3.
Add 1.9m in revenue? You forgot to subtract the anticipated revenue from the home game we jettisoned. I don't know what that would have brought in, but it would considerably offset the $1.9m (from which our travel expenses must also be deducted, which are not trivial).
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a terrible option. Aside from whatever small (in the big picture) revenue we might get, the only winners here are the small minority of Cal fans with the disposable income (and inclination) to make the trip. The losers are the tens of thousands of Cal fans who won't/can't make the trip along with the competitive health of the program itself, which trades a likely OOC win in 2022 vs UNLV for a likely loss vs ND without the prospect of getting a crack at ND in our house where we might face them with a much better chance of getting the win.
You want to ask the players whether they want to playa home game against UNLV or a game at Notre Dame? Do you think you'll get a single vote for the former?
You want to ask the players if they are okay being disrespected by ND, the Cal administration, and the multitude of Cal players who seem to agree that Cal is not a peer of ND's? That these folks all believe Cal is so inferior to the South Bend team that they are okay with ND not reciprocating with a game at Cal?
I'm happy to bring your perspective to the players and after they stop laughing at your absurdity and tell you they would love to play this game will you stand down?
Sure, but also make sure you record them laughing and post the video of it. While you're at it, make sure you record and post your telling them that ND's behavior is an insult* to the Cal football program and the players with which you and others like you agree. That, after all, is my position.
*Specifically, that they're all ND's b*tches/inferiors.
I'm not going to tell them that ND's behavior is an insult because it isn't. But I would be happy to present that perspective and let them judge. That is exactly what I think they'd laugh at.
Look, I frankly don't care if we play Notre Dame. But I do negotiate contracts for a living and business deals get done because they are mutually beneficial, not because they are equal. I would look at each side and what their alternatives to a deal are. If there is a landing point where the deal is better than all alternatives, a deal gets done. Businesses that don't do deals because they perceive that to be unequal don't stay in business very long.
I would not support Cal approaching Notre Dame or accepting a proposal from Notre Dame to do a one time road trip with no return years from now. Why? Because there is an opportunity cost. Accepting that deal may cost you a home and home deal with another quality team. That is not the situation here.
We are talking about a schedule that is already baked. On the Cal side there are two alternatives. 1. Play a home game against UNLV; 2. Play a road game against Notre Dame. On the Notre Dame side it isn't as well defined but there are basically 4 alternatives. 1. Play a home with Cal. 2. Play a home against someone you apparently like less than Cal; 3 play a home and home with Cal. 4. Play a home and home with someone else.
Let's get a couple things straight. Notre Dame is in fact the most prestigious college football program. It has by far the largest fan base and the most nationwide fan base. This has been so for the entirety of the modern college football era. Doesn't mean they are the best on the field. This pretty much happened because they were the number one Catholic school football team and Catholics absolutely rooted for them across the board for a long time. And Catholics are a very large segment of American society, much larger than any alumni base. This is the team that had a national television contract when they weren't even very good. This is the team that necessitated the rule that you couldn't participate in a bowl with a losing record because when there were a lot fewer bowls a bowl invited them when they had a losing record passing up 8 and 9 win teams in the process. South Bend is a legendary location for college football. Again, I don't personally care. I won't be going and I don't care if I ever see South Bend or Touchdown Jesus or any of it. But it is the reality.
So, when I look at this from Cal's perspective, if my choice is playing UNLV at home, or playing ND on the road - with compensation that makes it financially viable to do so - I don't see that is a hard choice. My fans will be much more excited by the latter. I can probably sell packages to them. My players will love it (sorry, but many will tell their grandkids whether you guys like to accept that fact or not). You are trading a nondescript experience for a highlight experience. I don't think the "people will think Cal is a little *****" argument is realistic. No one cares. I don't think it sets a precedent for negotiating with other teams. You just tell them it was a one time deal that made sense only in those circumstances and if they balk, you say you are not Notre Dame, and if they still balk, you say "Have a nice day then."
When I look at Notre Dame's side of the equation, I think it is equally clear. Their number 1 option is to play us one time at home. I can see big appeal for them. We are a prestigious university. We haven't played each other in decades. Our politics makes us an interesting "character". It will be a fun home game for their fans. Their #2 option is probably their third favorite option. They don't want to go there. However, their least favorite option is a home and home with us. Why? Because of Stanford. They already come to the Bay Area every other year and have for years. What the hell does another roadie to the Bay Area do for their fans? What does it do for recruiting? What does it do for their players. If I'm Notre Dame I have zero interest in that. I can use that road trip to score a better home and home for me. Not necessarily with a better program, but with a better fit for my schedule. Note, Notre Dame has played UCLA 4 times, 2 times in the last 55 years and only once in LA. I think you have USC to thank for that. Much of that time UCLA was a big name program.
So, yeah. If I'm Cal I push for a home and home. And if I'm Notre Dame, I say "Look, we know you had to ask, but that just isn't going to work. This is all we can offer." And if I'm Cal, I ask again. and again. And if I'm Notre Dame, I lay out what I just laid out for you and say, "look, we'd like to play you, we understand you need funding to make up for losing a home game. Here is $1.9M. We can't offer a return date. I think you understand why. If that works for you, great. If not. No hard feelings."
And then Cal needs to make a decision. I would argue it is a decision between cutting off their nose for pride or doing the best deal for them. Notre Dame at South Bend is simply better than UNLV at home.
There simply was no other deal that made sense for Notre Dame. I get that some of you think that negotiation is about pounding the table or smooth talking or enforcing your will. It simply isn't.
Maybe we go out there, have a good showing and they decide they don't need to alternate a half hearted showing from Stanford fans in South Bend with anti-Catholic bullshyte from the Stanford band in Stanford and we screw over our rival and take their series from them. Or, more likely, we just have a one time game that is a hell of a lot more interesting than UNLV.
I do not agree with people that see this as great exposure or whatever. Lots of teams play Notre Dame. Lots of teams beat Notre Dame. I don't see any teams making their bones against Notre Dame. But it was the only deal that made sense for both teams and it was a significant improvement over the alternative.
The b-b-b-b-b-b-but we'll be their b I t c h argument is just flat out inane and immature.
