BeachedBear said:

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A couple responses, but first a question to new Cal fan? Why? What factors made you become a new Cal Fan (for basketball?). Mine started my freshman year at Cal, when I translated my High School basketball fandom to my college.

Here are some responses to your Qs, based on my view of things. There are many good posters on this forum with lots of other opinions who can respond.

1. Every program has recruiting pros and cons. Cals pros are obvious, but the three biggest cons (that are festering in the minds of recruits) are: Academic workload, No dedicated practice facility and losing program.

2. The practice facility progress has started and evaporated a few times since Braun was coaching. The latest RFQ indicates that Cal is starting over. However, it was never announced that past efforts were dead - so not sure what really is going on.

3. Lots things could be done about the experience, but all of these are minor compared to big one that you mention - WINNING. Without that, there is no buzz. No buzz and no fans. However, Cal has sunk to such a low level - that even foolish diehards like me have given up. Note- this issue is not unique to Cal - it is evident throughout college basketball. There are still some programs that sell out every game, but they are becoming fewer and fewer.

4. A number of years ago, both Football and Basketball went too lenient in accepting lower GPA students. the result was poor academic performance and a resulting backlash. Both programs have turned it around dramatically, so not sure its a problem. Martin had some complaints, but that seemed like a reflection of poort cooperation and communication between his staff and the Ath Dept. Bottom line is the staff needs to consider GPA in their recruiting and operate with a small number of exceptions - can't simply recruit anyone.

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Cal8285 said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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3) . . . the drop in attendance is so stark (upwards of 10k some years ago to generally 3-4k now, which honestly seems inflated for some games anyway, save for rivalry games). . . .

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The published attendance numbers have not had anything to do with actual attendance for a long time. The major professional sports and major college sport all do the same thing now -- list tickets sold, not tickets used.

In the days when attendance was most over 10K, most of the 10K in tickets sold were actually used. Not only have ticket sales dropped significantly, the number of tickets used has, too.

The last NCAA tourney year under Martin, with Brown and Rabb, we had overall average of 10,182, conference average of 10913, and while some of the OOC numbers for lousy opponents had actual attendance somewhat lower than official, the conference season didn't have many unused tickets. The next year, Martin's last, the numbers were down to 9,306 overall, 9,898 conference (8,910 overall if you include the disastrous Bakersfield NIT game that had an official crowd of 1,778), but again, outside of lousy OOC oppoentns, not many unused tickets.

Jones' first year, slipped to 7,376 overall, 7,848 conference, but believe me, actual attendance numbers where NOWHERE near that. Jones' second and final year, 5,627 overall, 6.872 conference, again, actual attendance numbers NOWHERE near that. Fox's first year, 4,941 overall, 6,012 conference, but although ticket sales were lower, the percentage of unused tickets dropped quite a bit.

Considering the pandemic, the drop to this year isn't bad for tickets sold. The average overall is 4,534 so far, and conference average 5,228. The pandemic is helping actuals be well below that (season tickets were bought when people thought non-basketball things would return to close to normal this season). The team performance also doesn't inspire people to show, especially in pandemic conditions.

But yeah, the drop in tickets sold from the last two years of Martin to now, or even the first year of Fox, is stark, and the drop in actual number of people showing up is even worse.

Of course, I had a ton of fun going to games from 75-85 when not many people showed up to Harmon except to see a highly ranked team, or UCLA or Stanford whether they were good or not. It was fun to go to Harmon with a small crowd in that gym to see the late Gene Ransom be the best non-NBA player Cal ever had, or see Doug True set the Cal career record for floor burns, or see the Michael Chavez-Mark McNamara show, or see the frosh-soph versions of Kevin Johnson playing with Leonard Taylor, Dave Butler, and Chris Washington, a lot of those were fun times, even if the team didn't win that much.

Somehow, this isn't so much fun. Haas isn't as fun as Harmon, as little as those 75-85 teams won, they won more than this team, and in losing, this team isn't as fun as those 75-85 teams.

Want to reverse the stark drop? Get a competitive team that has a shot of beating the top conference teams at home. Get a team that is more fun to watch than this one. If you build that kind of team, they will come.

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bluehenbear said:

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I think the problem is nobody has expectations, so nothing happens.

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BeastBear69 said:

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I too am a newly established Cal basketball and football fan. I know a whole lot more about how college basketball works from a program building perspective but I enjoy football as a much more casual fan.

When it comes to the state of Cal Basketball, it all starts from the top down. You need a guy who has a vision for the type of coach he wants to run his program. That coach - especially at a place like Cal that will struggle to get top level pac 12 talent - must have a clear vision into recruiting strategy and how you can win games. It does not appear like Fox has any recruiting strategy, and his game plan to play slow has proven to be awful.

In my opinion, we need someone who can get smart, and savvy players who might not fit the mold of a typical freak athlete power 5 player. We need fundamentally sound guys (3pt shooting high priority) and high basketball IQ. You will not succeed here trying to beat out other power 5 schools for kids. Cal needs to be a diamond in the rough destination.

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eastcoastcal said:

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Hi, as I stated in a previous post of mine, I am a new Cal fan and I'm quite interested in the state of Cal Athletics as well as exploring various ways to improve the programs, especially regarding recruiting/facilities/business options.

Evidently Cal Basketball is in quite a state of disarray, given that our biggest producers are set to graduate/move on, and the incoming class & underclassmen aren't realistically game-changers in their own right. Recruiting is the backbone of college hoops and I was wondering what peoples' thoughts are on how to progress the program.

In my mind, there are a few areas to target:

1) Recruiting-staff/coaching, which can be helped by hiring a better recruiter than Fox (Golden, Gates, etc. A bunch of names have been thrown around on similar threads). This also entails a revamp/injection into recruiting staffing. Cal has a beautiful campus, a renowned university, has produced NBA players, and a nice location. There are certainly things to sell recruits on.

2) Practice facility, which seems to be in the works. Of course development is notoriously slow & funding needs to be secured but hopefully should this pull through, it would be a boon to recruiting efforts (and obviously player development). Realistically how do recent developments compared to other proposed plans in years past? Does this effort seem more serious?

3) Attendance/atmosphere. I've read on several threads that many long-time ticket holders have forfeited their tickets in recent years, whether that be due to the Wyking era or Fox era. What can be done to reclaim the great environment of Haas/Harmon in years past? Of course, winning would help, and as the pandemic fades, people will return, but the drop in attendance is so stark (upwards of 10k some years ago to generally 3-4k now, which honestly seems inflated for some games anyway, save for rivalry games) that I figure it warrants some consideration and thought.

4) GPA requirement? I have read on other threads that this inhibits some coveted recruits from being able to come to Cal. I understand that Berkeley prides itself on its academics, but is this a real problem, and if so, is a reevaluation of our requirements possibly being too stringent necessary?

Would love some thoughts on the general state of the program. Ive seen scattered threads addressing individual ideas or general complains about the decline of Cal basketball (many comments about how this is the worst stretch of Cal basketball in their memory) but figured a comprehensive thread would be cool.

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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We need a black coach.

Ooops, there, I said it. I am a reverse racist. But, we do need a black coach. It brings advantages.

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You mean someone like our last coach?

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More like his predecessor. Pulled MCDonald's AA Jalen Brown from Georgia. Undefeated at home. Got us a 4 seed, best In Cal history.

I'd prefer West Coast ties and better offense, someone who will stick around. However, someone (of any race) who loves Berkeley and the Bay Area and can believable sell Cal's history of social activism to the many top young student athletes (like Jalen Brown) who are politically active (ie support Black Lives Matter), and/or are attracted to Cal's excellence in Islamic Studies (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) and academics in general and welcomes and mentors smart young people who question authority, including their own.

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We will have to agree to disagree. I prefer someone of any race who is a skilled recruiter, a great teacher, and focuses on basketball, and stays away from political positions (Black Lives Matter, etc.). Pete Newell and John Wooden never got into the mire of politics.

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Newell coached over 60 years ago. Wooden, almost 50.

A "skilled recruiter" is someone who can develop rapport with young, mostly African American, student athletes born this Century. Who can relate to and address their concerns and interests and show how attending Cal will further their growth both in basketball ball and in life.

I want someone who, when showing recruits campus can point out where MLK spoke on Sproul and why, can show off Berkeley with enthusiasm and pride, not the shame some older alums express. Someone who is not threatened when young people have an opinion, whether about social issues, politics or basketball.

Just look at the social media of top basketball players, high school, college or NBA to see what they are interested in. We are not looking for someone you or Knowlton would feel comfortable with, we are looking for someone top young smart (generally political) basketball players would be attracted to. Cal could kill it with the right coach.

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Cal has proven we can attract NBA-quality talent and certainly Pac-12 First Team talent. From Jason Kidd to Joe Shipp, from Ed Gray to Yogi Stewart, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Ryan Anderson, going back to KJ and Mark McNamara there has never been a shortage of talent on the Cal roster until Fox was hired.

Fox even inherited a good player in Bradley.

Maybe there are external factors at play, but to me the common denominator is Fox.

It's not that Cal can't attract talent. It's that FOX can't attract talent.

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calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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We need a black coach.

Ooops, there, I said it. I am a reverse racist. But, we do need a black coach. It brings advantages.

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You mean someone like our last coach?

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More like his predecessor. Pulled MCDonald's AA Jalen Brown from Georgia. Undefeated at home. Got us a 4 seed, best In Cal history.

I'd prefer West Coast ties and better offense, someone who will stick around. However, someone (of any race) who loves Berkeley and the Bay Area and can believable sell Cal's history of social activism to the many top young student athletes (like Jalen Brown) who are politically active (ie support Black Lives Matter), and/or are attracted to Cal's excellence in Islamic Studies (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) and academics in general and welcomes and mentors smart young people who question authority, including their own.

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We will have to agree to disagree. I prefer someone of any race who is a skilled recruiter, a great teacher, and focuses on basketball, and stays away from political positions (Black Lives Matter, etc.). Pete Newell and John Wooden never got into the mire of politics.

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Newell coached over 60 years ago. Wooden, almost 50.

A "skilled recruiter" is someone who can develop rapport with young, mostly African American, student athletes born this Century. Who can relate to and address their concerns and interests and show how attending Cal will further their growth both in basketball ball and in life.

I want someone who, when showing recruits campus can point out where MLK spoke on Sproul and why, can show off Berkeley with enthusiasm and pride, not the shame some older alums express. Someone who is not threatened when young people have an opinion, whether about social issues, politics or basketball.

Just look at the social media of top basketball players, high school, college or NBA to see what they are interested in. We are not looking for someone you or Knowlton would feel comfortable with, we are looking for someone top young smart (generally political) basketball players would be attracted to. Cal could kill it with the right coach.

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Cal has proven we can attract NBA-quality talent and certainly Pac-12 First Team talent. From Jason Kidd to Joe Shipp, from Ed Gray to Yogi Stewart, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Ryan Anderson, going back to KJ and Mark McNamara there has never been a shortage of talent on the Cal roster until Fox was hired.

Fox even inherited a good player in Bradley.

Maybe there are external factors at play, but to me the common denominator is Fox.

It's not that Cal can't attract talent. It's that FOX can't attract talent.

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Agree, Fox is a huge negative. The first thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging.

I'm thonking beyond that. Once we get out of the hole and want to start climbing up the ladder. What are Cal's comparative advantages? How are different than other schools and how do we turn that to our benefit with recruits?

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bluesaxe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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cal has never seemed to capture the non-student, non-alumni fans

yeah, there are many fans that for one reason or another have been loyal cal fans over the years

but USC, Oregon and some teams in smaller towns that don't have an NBA team to root for make up a big proportion of some fan bases

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The one time I remember that not being true was when Powe et al came in as freshman. I think better recruiting locally would help that issue.

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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We need a black coach.

Ooops, there, I said it. I am a reverse racist. But, we do need a black coach. It brings advantages.

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You mean someone like our last coach?

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More like his predecessor. Pulled MCDonald's AA Jalen Brown from Georgia. Undefeated at home. Got us a 4 seed, best In Cal history.

I'd prefer West Coast ties and better offense, someone who will stick around. However, someone (of any race) who loves Berkeley and the Bay Area and can believable sell Cal's history of social activism to the many top young student athletes (like Jalen Brown) who are politically active (ie support Black Lives Matter), and/or are attracted to Cal's excellence in Islamic Studies (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) and academics in general and welcomes and mentors smart young people who question authority, including their own.

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We will have to agree to disagree. I prefer someone of any race who is a skilled recruiter, a great teacher, and focuses on basketball, and stays away from political positions (Black Lives Matter, etc.). Pete Newell and John Wooden never got into the mire of politics.

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Newell coached over 60 years ago. Wooden, almost 50.

A "skilled recruiter" is someone who can develop rapport with young, mostly African American, student athletes born this Century. Who can relate to and address their concerns and interests and show how attending Cal will further their growth both in basketball ball and in life.

I want someone who, when showing recruits campus can point out where MLK spoke on Sproul and why, can show off Berkeley with enthusiasm and pride, not the shame some older alums express. Someone who is not threatened when young people have an opinion, whether about social issues, politics or basketball.

Just look at the social media of top basketball players, high school, college or NBA to see what they are interested in. We are not looking for someone you or Knowlton would feel comfortable with, we are looking for someone top young smart (generally political) basketball players would be attracted to. Cal could kill it with the right coach.

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