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Potential Men's Basketball Coaching Candidates

March 12, 2023
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With the historically unsuccessful Mark Fox era over at Cal, let's take a look at some potential replacement candidates in this critical juncture of Cal basketball.

But before we begin, the profound level of futility of not just the Mark Fox era but also the preceding two years of comparable lack of success from Wyking Jones needs to be examined to understand just how big a hole AD Jim Knowlton and the athletic department needs to figure out a way to dig itself out of.

Following the relatively successful 3-year tenure of Cuonzo Martin, who went 62-39 overall and

Former Cal HC Cuonzo Martin

29-25 in conference before departing to Missouri with a substantial raise that more than doubled his Cal contract, prior AD Mike WIlliams made a critical error in hiring Martin assistant Wyking Jones, who had no head coaching experience. The results were even worse than the gloomiest of sceptics could have imagined, with a pair of last-place finishes and an overall record of 16-47 overall and just 5-31 in conference.

Veteran coach Mark Fox, who had had a modest level of success took over and fared little better in his 4-year tenure at Cal, going just 38-67 overall and 17-61 in conference.

Fortunately in this day of portal transfers and NIL, if a program like Cal that has something

Former Cal HC Mark Fox

beyond futility to offer under the right leadership and framework, including a robust NIL program, the right coach and a few key transfer additions can dramatically change the fortunes of a program without having to suffer through a painfully slow rebuild project.

There are some non-negotiable traits this go-round that are crucial to picking the right person to lead what is not a particularly easy turnaround of a Cal program that’s been down six years now: A strong recruiter, a dynamic personality, high character, problem solver vs. a complainer, an inclusive approach (former players, donors, press, fans input considered), a proven head coach and teacher, a builder/change agent type and energetic.

With that in mind, here are some candidates that Cal can, will or possibly should consider:

Potential primary candidates:

Joe Pasternak UCSB head coach, age 41

Pasternack currently holds a record of 132–52 (.713) and 70–30 (.700) in Big West conference play in six seasons in Santa Barbara. The Gauchos tied for 1st in conference this season with a 15-5 record and 27-7 overall, also winning the Big West conference tourney. The Gauchos earned a 14th seed in the NCAA tournament, facing No. 3 seed Baylor in the first round of the South Region on Friday He has experience as an assistant at Cal and Arizona, where he was their lead recruiter, which could be viewed as a strong positive with the elite players he helped bring in

UCSB HC Joe Pasternack

or potentially a negative if he was personally involved in any of their recruiting violations when he was on staff under Sean Miller. He also helped engineer a turnaround at his first head coaching job at New Orleans so he also has experience digging out of holes. UCSB had also gone 25-36 in the two seasons prior to Pasternack’s arrival. He has strong west coast ties and is known as a strong recruiter.

Darian DeVries Drake head coach, age 47

DeVries currently holds a record of 122–47 (.722) and 63–29 (.685) in Missouri Valley conference play in 5 seasons at Drake.  Drake is currently 27-7 and finished 2nd in conference with a 15-5 record. Drake earned the No. 12 seed in the Midwest Region and will face No. 5 Miami in Albany, NY. DeVries was twice voted conference Coach of the Year and

Drake HC Darian DeVries

has a 1-1 record in NCAA tourney play. Prior to his arrival, Drake went just 23-40 before he engineered a quick turnaround. Combined with his time as an assistant at Creighton, he has a reputation as a strong recruiter and as a dynamic young coach who comes from a good coaching tree, though he does not appear to have particularly strong west coast ties.

Leon Rice, Boise State head coach, age 59

Rice currently holds a record of 267–153 (.636) and 141–88 (.616) in conference play at BSU. They went 13-5 in Mountain

Boise State HC Leon Rice

West play this season,  and 23-8 overall. Rice was twice named conference Coach of the Year and won two regular season conference and one conference tournament championship in his 14 seasons at BSU. He has significant coaching experience also serving as an assistant at Oregon and Gonzaga, though his age might be a bit less attractive.

Brian Dutcher, San Diego State head coach, age 63

Dutcher currently holds a record of 144–46 (.757) overall and 81–25 (.764) in conference play as head coach at SDSU. SDSU

Boise State HC Brian Dutcher

went 15-3 this season, winning the Mountain West conference title and Mountain West conference tourney. SDSU earned a No. 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament, facing 12th-seeded College of Charleston. Dutcher was a longtime assistant head coach for 9 years at Michigan and 18 years at SDSU under highly-successful head coach Brian Fisher. He’s won 3 conference championships and 2 conference championship tournaments in his 5 seasons with the Aztecs. Dutcher has strong west coast ties and a good recruiting reputation though his age may be seen by some as a drawback.

Mark Pope, BYU head coach, age 50

Pope currently holds a record at BYU of  85–40 (.680) overall and 39–21 (.650) in conference in his 4 seasons at BYU. They went 7-9 in conference this season and 17-15 overall, tying for fifth in the West Coast Conference. The Cougars went to the NCAA tourney in 2020-21 after finishing 20-7

BYU HC Mark Pope

and 10-3, 2nd in conference and to the NIT quarterfinals the next season. Dutcher also was an assistant at Wake Forest and Georgia as well as a player for 6 years in the NBA with Denver, Milwaukee and Indiana. He played for Washington and was the captain of Kentucky’s national championship team in 1996.

Next let’s take a look at several potential targets who some might see as a higher risk/higher reward option for various reasons.

Ryan Odom, Utah State head coach, age 48

Odom holds a record at Utah State of 41–23 (.641)overall and 20–15 (.571) in conference play at Utah State in his two seasons there, currently 23-7 and 12-6 in Mountain West Conference play,

Montana State HC Ryan Odom
​​​​​

finishing 2nd behind San Diego State and tied with Boise State. Prior to Utah State, Odom turned around an awful UMBC (University of Maryland, Baltimore County) who had gone 11-51 in the 2 seasons prior to his arrival to a first-season 21-13 record and 97-60 in 5 seasons. He was also an assistant at Virginia Tech, South Florida, Furman, UNC-Ashville and Charlotte.

Danny Sprinkle, Montana State, age 45

Sprinkle holds a record of 81–42 (.659) 49–23 (.681) at Montana State in Big Sky play, going 25–9 overall and 15–3 in conference this season, finishing 2nd in the regular season and earning a second straight NCAA tourney appearance with a Big Sky conference tournament championship this season. The Bobcats will face No. Kansas State on Friday in the opening round of the tournament in Greensboro, North Carolina. Sprinkle was named the Big Sky Coach of the Year this season. He took over a program that went just 28-46 in the two seasons before he arrived so he’s no stranger to big turnarounds. He's recruited on the west coast as an assistant at Cal State Northridge and Fullerton State and played collegiately at Montana State in the 90s.

Todd Simon, Southern Utah head coach, age 42

Simon holds a record at Southern Utah of 117-105  overall and 65-54 in conference play at Southern Utah in his 2 seasons there. They finished 20-11 overall currently and 12-6 in WAC Conference play. His teams have finished 64-27 in the last 3 seasons. Interestingly, Simon was part of the founding staff of Findlay Prep in Las Vegas and coached former Cal star Jorge Gutierrez in high school. He was also an assistant head coach and interim head coach at UNLV.

Stan Johnson, Loyola Marymount head coach, age 43

Johnson holds a record at LMU of 43–39 (.524) overall and 19–24 (.442) in WCC conference play at

LMU HC Stan Johnson

LMU in his 3 seasons there. They finished this season at 19-12 overall and 9-7 in conference play this season, finishing 4th. Before LMU, Johnson was an assistant at Marquette, ASU, Drake and Utah. He took over a Lions program that went 31-33 prior to his arrival.

Shantay Legans, Portland head coach, age 41

Legans holds a record at Portand of 32–33 (.492) overall and 12–18 (.400) in WCC conference play in his 2 seasons there. They finished this season 13-18 overall and 5-11 in conference play, finishing 8th. He took over a program that had gone just 15-38 the 2 seasons before his arrival. Legans went 39-14 in his final two seasons at Eastern

Portland HC Shantay Leggans

Washington before taking the Portland job. Legans played point guard at Cal from 1999 to 2002 before transferring to Fresno State.

Tim Miles, San Jose State head coach, age 56

Miles holds a record of 27–35 (.435) overall and 11–25 (.306) at San Jose State in Mountain West play in his 2 seasons there. They finished this season 20-12 overall and 10-8 in MWC play after struggling his first season, taking over a Spartans program that

San Jose State HC Tim Miles

went just 20-93 in the 4 prior seasons. Prior to SJS, Miles went 116–114 (.504) in 7 seasons at Nebraska and 71-88 at Colorado State.

Grant McCasland, North Texas head coach, age 46

MacCasland holds a record of 129–65 (.663) overall at North Texas and 71–36 (.664) in Conference USA play in his 6 seasons with the Mean Green. They finished the regular season 26-7 overall and 16-4 in C-USA, finishing second. He took over a North Texas program that has gone just 20-42 prior to his arrival, engineering a nice turnaround. His coaching experience at Baylor gave him bigger recruiting exposure and MacCasland also played at Baylor in the 90s.

Rodney Terry, Texas interim head coach, age 54

Terry holds a record of 17-7 overall at Texas and 12-6 in Big-12 conference play since taking over as interim coach after previous head coach Chris Beard was suspended then fired by the

Texas interim HC Rodney Terry

Longhorns. After knocking off No. 1 seed Kansas in the conference tourney, the Longhorns earned the No. 2 seed in the Midwest Region against No. 15 seed Colgate in Des Moines, Iowa on Thursday. Terry got his head coaching start at Fresno State in 2011, taking a few years before turning around the program and winning 20+ games his last three seasons with the Bulldogs. He then took over at UTEP, going 37–48 (.435) overall and 19–33 (.365) in C-USA play in three seasons before moving over to Texas.

Mark Madsen, Utah Valley head coach, age 47

Madsen holds a record of 65–49 (.570) overall at Utah Valley and 38–25 (.528) in WAC conference play since taking over 4 years ago. Utah Valley went 23–7 overall and 14–3 in conference play, winning the WAC conference championship.

Utah Valley HC Mark Madsen.

The former Stanford power forward had a 9-year NBA career with the Timberwolves and Lakers and spent the preceding years as an assistant, most recently with the Lakers for 4 seasons before taking over at Utah Valley.

 

Amir Abdur-Rahim, Kennesaw State, age 43

Abdur-Rahim holds a record of 45–73 (.381) overall and 24–41 (.369) in ASUN conference, though after three tough seasons to start his coaching career taking over a program that had gone just 16-46 in the two prior seasons, the younger brother of former Cal star forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim had a breakthrough season this year, going 26–8 overall and 15–3 in conference, winning the conference this season and earning them a No. 14 seed in the Midwest bracket and will take on No. 3 seed Xavier Friday. Prior to his first head coaching job, Abdur-Rahim was an assistant at Georgia, Texas A&M and College of Charleston.

The next category of coaches are likely not available due to various reasons, including jobs that currently could be considered better opportunities, higher salaries that perhaps couldn’t be matched, buyouts that would be impossible to cover and other various factors.

Dennis Gates, Missouri head coach, age 43

Gates holds a record of 24–8 (.750) overall and 11–7 (.611) in SEC play in his first season after taking over for former Cal head coach Cuonzo Martin after the Tigers stagnated in his final

Missouri HC Dennis Gates

seasons there. The Tigers earned a 7th seed in the 2023 NCAA tourney where they’ll face 10th-seeded Utah State in the first round, playing as part of the South regional in Sacramento.  Gates got his start as a head coach at Cleveland State, going 50–40 (.556) overall and 38–21 (.644) in Horizon League play after taking over a program that had gone just 40-89 in the four seasons prior to his arrival. However Gates has a prohibitive buyout that would make it very difficult to afford him even if he wanted to come to Cal. Gates played for the Bears from 1998 to 2002 and was an assistant at Cal when he got his start in coaching as well as at Northern Illinois, Nevada and Florida State before taking over at Cleveland State.

Jamie Dixon, TCU head coach, age 53

Dixon holds a record of 138–95 (.592) overall and 51–73 (.411) in Big 12 play and 21-12 overall and 9-9 in Big 12 play this season, earning 6th seed in the 2023 NCAA tournament, facing the winner of the First Four matchup between Arizona State and Nevada. The winner of that matchup will be the 11th seed. Dixon guided the Horned Frogs to the NCAA tourney last season as well, reaching the round of 32. Dixon took over a TCU team that had gone 30-36 in the two seasons prior to taking over after posting an impressive 328–123 (.727) overall and 143–81 (.638) ACC record at Pitt before making the move to TCU. Dixon however was extended to 2028, making his buyout prohibitive.

Todd Golden, Florida head coach, age 37

Golden holds a record of 16–16 at Florida overall and 9–9 in SEC play since taking over the Gators program this season. He parlayed a record of 57–36 (.613) overall at USF and 23–22 (.511) in conference play to the Florida job. But with 5 years and a 15 million buyout, Golden is not a likely addition.

Chris Beard, former Texas head coach, age 50

Golden posted a record at his most recent stop at Texas of 29–13 (.690) overall and 10–8 (.556) in Big 12 conference play before being dismissed for accusations of physical violence with his fiancee that were later retracted by her. Prior to his brief stint at Texas, Beard went 112–55 (.671) overall and 49–40 (.551) in Big 12 conference play, going to the NCAA finals, the Great 8 and round of 32 in three of his four seasons there. Talk is heating up about Ole Miss making a strong pitch for him and even though the allegations were withdrawn against him, he could be a tricky hire at Cal.

Related:

Cal Makes Change In Men's Basketball Leadership - Fox Gone

Discussion from...

Potential Men's Basketball Coaching Candidates

77,910 Views | 361 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Pittstop
BC Calfan
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calumnus
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parentswerebears said:

Cabin14 said:

stu said:

One key to happiness is to temper one's expectations.
Pretty sure most Cal fans that are paying attention are familiar with the severe limitations of Jim Knowlton as an AD and their expectations are properly tempered. The hope is he doesn't completely whiff on another Men's basketball hire....

Part of me thinks- he can't be that incompetent as to make a bad hire. But then I remember all of his other decisions and I just feel it in my bones. This is Fox 2.0 in the making.


He is that bad. We can only hope that his power has been clipped and donors have some clout.
Intuit
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Coaching Changes speculation

@CoachingChanges


Pure speculation…

…Stan Johnson back to Arizona St if it opens?
JimSox
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BC Calfan said:






Aha. A glimmer of possible actual information!
Cabin14
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Bobodeluxe said:

Cabin14 said:

stu said:

One key to happiness is to temper one's expectations.
Pretty sure most Cal fans that are paying attention are familiar with the severe limitations of Jim Knowlton as an AD and their expectations are properly tempered. The hope is he doesn't completely whiff on another Men's basketball hire....
Ted Lasso's contract is up.
Now we're talking...as long as he's bringing Beard and Roy Kent with him, I'm fine with Ted.
Cabin14
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That handle is a joke. Anyone with access to the Internet could connect those dots. They have no inside knowledge about anything.
Cabin14
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calumnus said:

parentswerebears said:

Cabin14 said:

stu said:

One key to happiness is to temper one's expectations.
Pretty sure most Cal fans that are paying attention are familiar with the severe limitations of Jim Knowlton as an AD and their expectations are properly tempered. The hope is he doesn't completely whiff on another Men's basketball hire....

Part of me thinks- he can't be that incompetent as to make a bad hire. But then I remember all of his other decisions and I just feel it in my bones. This is Fox 2.0 in the making.


He is that bad. We can only hope that his power has been clipped and donors have some clout.
Input from former players and more decision making power ceded to the donors are basically our only hope.

If Knowlton were left to his own devices, we're absolutely getting Tim Miles...we may still, which would suck.
Nothing in Jim Knowlton's history says he is the right person for this job...not a thing.
stu
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I presume interviews are confidential personnel matters? When this is all over will they even tell us how many candidates were interviewed? Or if anyone other than Knowlton and the interviewees participated in the interviews?
socaltownie
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AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
BearSD
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socaltownie said:

AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.
stu
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At least I'm not seeing any names from the unemployment line.

I hope all of the candidates are interviewing us about what kind of support they can expect.
Cal_79
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BearSD said:

socaltownie said:

AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.
calumnus
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Cal_79 said:

BearSD said:

socaltownie said:

AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
Yes, if Cal hires AAR, I will root for him to succeed. But it would be an extremely risky move for a program that cannot afford this hire to end in a third consecutive dumpster fire.

One significant difference from the last two coaches, if it is AAR, is that AAR seems to actually be able to coach basketball.


One scary coincidence: both Mark Fox and Amir Abdur-Rahim started their college playing careers at Garden City Community College.
HearstMining
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socaltownie said:

AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
I understand your concern. That 83% figure rang a bell:
Acceptance rates per collegeconfidential.com:

U of Oregon: 91.3%
Oregon St: 84%
UW: 53%
Wash St: 86%
Utah 84%
Colorado: 80%
ASU: 88%
Uof A: 87% (per collegegazette.com)
SDSU: 38%

I know that comparing acceptance percentages between a second-tier state college in Georgia and big state universities is not apples-to-apples, but I thought it was interesting.

TummyoftheGB
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Agreed. His team was completely undermanned vs. Xavier, but he put his players in a position to win--which could be a very common occurrence next year if he takes the job at Cal. It's the ultimate small sample size, so it may mean absolutely nothing, but AAR did a much better job of in-game coaching than did Dennis Gates in Missouri's game vs. Princeton.

I would be fully on board with this outcome, especially if it means solidifying a reconnection with Jaylen Brown (who is currently the most exciting thing going for Cal basketball--which is pretty sad)

Of course, we'll probably hear that he didn't interview well, even though the pretty much the entire basketball world was raving about how inspirational he was just last week...
stu
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TummyoftheGB said:

Agreed. His team was completely undermanned vs. Xavier, but he put his players in a position to win--which could be a very common occurrence next year if he takes the job at Cal. It's the ultimate small sample size, so it may mean absolutely nothing, but AAR did a much better job of in-game coaching than did Dennis Gates in Missouri's game vs. Princeton.

I would be fully on board with this outcome, especially if it means solidifying a reconnection with Jaylen Brown (who is currently the most exciting thing going for Cal basketball--which is pretty sad)

Of course, we'll probably hear that he didn't interview well, even though the pretty much the entire basketball world was raving about how inspirational he was just last week...
Didn't interview well with Knowlton is a plus for me.
Big Dog
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stu said:

At least I'm not seeing any names from the unemployment line.

I hope all of the candidates are interviewing us about what kind of support they can expect.
Give JK time. He needs to Zoom with all the alumni-suggested qualified candidates before he hires someone he's comfortable with, old unemployed guy.
BearSD
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HearstMining said:

socaltownie said:

AAR is definately a high risk/high reward kind of candidate. Kenn State acceptance rate is 83%. Similar to Boise (and Penn state for your next trivia night) it started as a 2 year CC and then about 20 years ago moved to a 4 year status.

I can not stress enough to any donor with juice just how DIFFERENT that is than Cal. I mean fundamentally different. While like a LOT of American Higher education (really Cal is the outlier), Kennesaw and Cal are fundamentally different places.

Now we think that because HIS BROTHER Graduated a dozen years ago with a Cal BS AAR might know Cal. That is unknown.

I understand (and approve of) the idea of trying to find an African American Coach given the lack of diversity in the Pac-12 coaching ranks. AAR could be a home run. But this is absolutely my marker to say "I told you so" if coach comes to cal and finds it ain't like running a sports program in the deep south at a school with an 83% acceptance rate.
I understand your concern. That 83% figure rang a bell:
Acceptance rates per collegeconfidential.com:

U of Oregon: 91.3%
Oregon St: 84%
UW: 53%
Wash St: 86%
Utah 84%
Colorado: 80%
ASU: 88%
Uof A: 87% (per collegegazette.com)
SDSU: 38%

I know that comparing acceptance percentages between a second-tier state college in Georgia and big state universities is not apples-to-apples, but I thought it was interesting.
So if SDSU joins, they would immediately become the third most selective school in the conference by a considerable distance.
socaliganbear
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I mean... if Cal State Fullerton joined the pac, they'd be neck and neck with UW acceptance rate. Doesn't mean much.
MoragaBear
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Staff
Took a look at CSU admissions rates and Cal Poly SLO and SDSU are in the 30s, Fullerton State in the 40s and Long Beach State in the 50s. All the others are much easier to get into.

In the Pac, it's furd (4), UCLA (11), USC (13), Cal (14), UW (53), CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94).
Econ141
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MoragaBear said:

Took a look at CSU admissions rates and Cal Poly SLO and SDSU are in the 30s, Fullerton State in the 40s and Long Beach State in the 50s. All the others are much easier to get into.

In the Pac, it's furd (4), UCLA (11), USC (13), Cal (14), UW (53), CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94).


What happened to our selectivity? Or has living in LA just become a lot more popular? Even international applications to UCLA outpace those to Berkeley. Changing of the guard?
bearister
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"…CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94)."

In other words, if you can fog a mirror, you in!

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
socaltownie
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Simple population. Northern cal is in free fall when it comes to college age kids. Csu enrollment north of the grapevine outside of slo is in a world of hurt.
MoragaBear
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Staff
socaltownie said:

Simple population. Northern cal is in free fall when it comes to college age kids. Csu enrollment north of the grapevine outside of slo is in a world of hurt.
SoCal has a 59/41% majority of the overall population, too, and the difference between an 11%, 13% and 14% acceptance rate with that in mind is pretty minuscule.
calumnus
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Econ141 said:

MoragaBear said:

Took a look at CSU admissions rates and Cal Poly SLO and SDSU are in the 30s, Fullerton State in the 40s and Long Beach State in the 50s. All the others are much easier to get into.

In the Pac, it's furd (4), UCLA (11), USC (13), Cal (14), UW (53), CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94).


What happened to our selectivity? Or has living in LA just become a lot more popular? Even international applications to UCLA outpace those to Berkeley. Changing of the guard?


I wouldn't focus on the admit rate, ever since they went to separate applications for each campus everyone who wants to go to Cal applied to UCLA as one of their backups, but people who want UCLA rarely apply to Cal and apply to UCSD, UCI, UCSB…

However, UCLA <has> recently taken the lead in the only common measure, GPAs of the Freshman class:

GPAs of middle 25% to 75%
UCLA 4.21- 4.33
Cal 4.17 - 4.31
UCSB 4.15 - 4.31
UCSD 4.12 - 4.30
UCI 4.08- 4.29
UCD 4.06 - 4.30
UCSC 3.94 - 4.25
UCR 3.81 - 4.20
UCM 3.50 - 4.08

Crazy that Cal barely edges Santa Barbara now and that the top 25% of the freshman class at even Merced has a 4.0 or better.

UCLA building so much housing on campus has converted it from a commuter school. They are a far more progressive and forward thinking university, embracing film, theatre and athletics. However, I think the rise of UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, UCI and dropping of Cal and UCD also reflects the general rise of the warm weather schools in popularity, as we also see with San Diego State.
CaliforniaEternal
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Not so fast my friend. The latest 2023 application data shows Cal with a fractional increase in in-state applicants while LA's in-state applicant numbers declined. Overall, Cal received 1.8% fewer applicants than 2022 because of lower out of state and international applicants while LA's overall decline is 2.6%. The gap between the total number of applicants to Cal and LA narrowed significantly over the last 2 years. LA had 23.6% more applicants than Cal in 2021 but only 15.9% more this year. Irvine, Riverside, and Santa Cruz are the only UCs that had an increase in applicants this year. Riverside and Santa Cruz are like CSU schools however and Merced is a flat out abomination.

https://www.ucop.edu/institutional-research-academic-planning/_files/factsheets/2023/table-1.1-freshman-applications-by-campus-and-residency.pdf



















socaltownie
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And I think if you look at college age kids it is even more skewed. Will try at work
Golden One
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Econ141 said:

MoragaBear said:

Took a look at CSU admissions rates and Cal Poly SLO and SDSU are in the 30s, Fullerton State in the 40s and Long Beach State in the 50s. All the others are much easier to get into.

In the Pac, it's furd (4), UCLA (11), USC (13), Cal (14), UW (53), CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94).


What happened to our selectivity? Or has living in LA just become a lot more popular? Even international applications to UCLA outpace those to Berkeley. Changing of the guard?
Berkeley has just had very poor leadership the past 25+ years. We need a visionary, dynamic chancellor who can get us out of the stale, politically correct, status quo rut we've been in for way too long.
calumnus
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Golden One said:

Econ141 said:

MoragaBear said:

Took a look at CSU admissions rates and Cal Poly SLO and SDSU are in the 30s, Fullerton State in the 40s and Long Beach State in the 50s. All the others are much easier to get into.

In the Pac, it's furd (4), UCLA (11), USC (13), Cal (14), UW (53), CU (80), WSU (86), UA (87), ASU (88), OSU (89), UO (93), Utah (94).


What happened to our selectivity? Or has living in LA just become a lot more popular? Even international applications to UCLA outpace those to Berkeley. Changing of the guard?
Berkeley has just had very poor leadership the past 25+ years. We need a visionary, dynamic chancellor who can get us out of the stale, politically correct, status quo rut we've been in for way too long.


UCLA is even more politically correct, more progressive. They name stadiums after their trailblazing heroes, Jackie Robinson and Arthur Ashe. They embraced African American coaches in football and basketball decades ago. They look toward Asia for connections.

Cal generally looks backward, to the East Coast and Europe, to Harvard and Oxford, to the 19th and 20th century models of elite, ivory tower, academia for academics. It is emblematic that our chancellor is an expert on Victorian literature.

BearSD
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calumnus said:



However, I think the rise of UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, UCI and dropping of Cal and UCD also reflects the general rise of the warm weather schools in popularity, as we also see with San Diego State.
It's driven by SoCal kids having a strong preference for warmer weather. IMO, in general, kids who grow up in SoCal strongly prefer the SoCal schools and are much less likely to go to NorCal schools, while most kids who grow up in NorCal have no problem going to schools in SoCal.

Cal Poly SLO is still attractive to SoCal kids, likely because SLO's weather is pretty nice. Also, just among the Cal Poly campuses, SLO is the most attractive location by far.
HoopDreams
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calumnus
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BearSD said:

calumnus said:



However, I think the rise of UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, UCI and dropping of Cal and UCD also reflects the general rise of the warm weather schools in popularity, as we also see with San Diego State.
It's driven by SoCal kids having a strong preference for warmer weather. IMO, in general, kids who grow up in SoCal strongly prefer the SoCal schools and are much less likely to go to NorCal schools, while most kids who grow up in NorCal have no problem going to schools in SoCal.

Cal Poly SLO is still attractive to SoCal kids, likely because SLO's weather is pretty nice. Also, just among the Cal Poly campuses, SLO is the most attractive location by far.


Weather is just part of it. Cal and Berkeley appealed to me, coming from L.A. in '79-'80 because it fit what I thought college was supposed to be like: big lecture halls, intellectuals, studying in cafes on cloudy days, actual natural streams with running water on campus, protests, a nearby city to explore. During breaks I took classes and studied in libraries and cafes at UCLA and it was nearly impossible with a nice sunny day outside. My image of "college" was set growing up in the 60s and 70s. Plus, coming from a big high school in West LA, I welcomed a more intellectual environment, but I was a distinct minority. The vast majority of my classmates went to UCLA, either directly, or via Santa Monica City College. Most lived at home and commuted.

I think the image of "college" the current generation has is also shaped by movies and television (MTV) but it is more Spring Break, parties, and less "Paper Chase." Plus, the academic quality of the admits everywhere is high,

However, I am happy to report that my niece, who lives right near UCSD and is on her school's beach volleyball team, has visited all the UC campuses and has fallen in love with Berkeley. I think a lot more kids from SoCal would if they had a chance to visit, but the vast majority do not.
BeachedBear
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The silence from the AD has forced us to spin to Cal admissions - I love it!

Backward thinking, weather, generational differences in cultural awareness, cannabis, demographics, tin foil hats, victorian-era colonialism. Most of it reflects poor leadership, regardless of political bent. Its a mentality of "we are still great" versus "we want to be great". I've seen it permeate Cal institutions since the 90s Which leads to the upcoming announcement from Jim Knowlton on April 15th:

"After an exhausted search effort and multiple interviews and discussions with concerned Cal stakeholders, I am excited to announce Tim Miles as the next head coach of Berkeley boys basketball! During the process, Tim shared with us his exuberant desire to come to Cal and do his best to bring the program back to competitiveness. His discussions with his good friend Mark Fox showed him what it takes to succeed at Cal and help develop our boys to be great representatives of the University of Berkley in California"
badger
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Cal's espoused values and reputation do not match its reality. It is closing three libraries; the College of Letters and Science has 24K students and 31 advisors (thats nealry 800 stduents per advisor, students are on their own) it can house less than a 3rd of its students (compare that to places like Boston University who guarantees 4 years of housing); the campus is not safe and has is consistently rated in the bottom of campus safety in the US (according to Cleary Act data).
Faculty are hired for their research ability not their teaching, the majority of teaching is done by smart grad students, but also grad students who have no teaching skills; the university does next to nothing to prepare GSIs to be good teachers. The leadership is completely out of touch with what makes a university in the 21st century great.
Stop living in the past, Cal is not what many think it is.
If anyone expects a good hiring decsion out if this ****show, you are fooling yourself
HateRed
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Don't you just wish UCLA had the same reputation that CAL has? You're so f***ing jealous it's pathetic!
 
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