You think Jaylen and Rodgers are right wing republicans? Neither am I.
Pasternack signs extension at UCSB
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Last: 1 yr ago by concernedparent
Wow, broad brush being used here to paint it so black and white. Are there really that many right-wing and left-wing McDonald's All Americans out there deciding their college choice solely on politics? Do we know Knowlton and Fox are both conservative Republicans? And what does that even mean, anyway? Haven't been to a basketball practice or hung out with my old coaches for awhile, so maybe things have changed, but don't recall much political discussion going on.calumnus said:wc22 said:
"Shareef and Jaylen were McDonald's All Americans from Georgia who could have gone to ANY program in the country, but chose Cal largely because we had African American coaches that could sell Cal's diversity and history of fighting for social Justice. "
Says Calumnus.
Did you ask them? How does your COVID likes and bull**** match up with this? I would love to know.
It is weird how Jaylen is only brought up when talking about how to manipulate teenagers, but 3/4 of this board disavows him the second he says anything. Literally anything. FREE SPEECH (for people who parrot SNL skits).
There have been many articles with quotes from both (for Shareef it was also Cal's world renowned Near Eastern Studies/Islamic Studies department). Jaylen has spoken on the importance of giving opportunities to African American coaches and spoke with Knowlton about the advantages that would give Cal.
I get that is not your politics and you wish it was not Berkeley, but unless you are a 17 year old McDonald's All American basketball player your opinion (and mine) doesn't really matter. There are other schools that are far more attractive to any right-wing conservative McDonald's All Americans. Cal's comparative advantage is with top players with progressive politics. It just is.
Or we can hire conservative Republicans like Knowlton and Fox and suffer the consequences of their poor fit.
It's about branding
What are you going to build your brand on at Cal?
What's the coach and Cal basketball brand?
How will the coach connect to players and recruits?
What are you going to build your brand on at Cal?
What's the coach and Cal basketball brand?
How will the coach connect to players and recruits?
Is it? I mean there are equally progressive centers of excellence at say UC Boulder or Michigan or Wisconsin or UCLA.calumnus said:wc22 said:
"Shareef and Jaylen were McDonald's All Americans from Georgia who could have gone to ANY program in the country, but chose Cal largely because we had African American coaches that could sell Cal's diversity and history of fighting for social Justice. "
Says Calumnus.
Did you ask them? How does your COVID likes and bull**** match up with this? I would love to know.
It is weird how Jaylen is only brought up when talking about how to manipulate teenagers, but 3/4 of this board disavows him the second he says anything. Literally anything. FREE SPEECH (for people who parrot SNL skits).
There have been many articles with quotes from both (for Shareef it was also Cal's world renowned Near Eastern Studies/Islamic Studies department). Jaylen has spoken on the importance of giving opportunities to African American coaches and spoke with Knowlton about the advantages that would give Cal.
I get that is not your politics and you wish it was not Berkeley, but unless you are a 17 year old McDonald's All American basketball player your opinion (and mine) doesn't really matter. There are other schools that are far more attractive to any right-wing conservative McDonald's All Americans. Cal's comparative advantage is with top players with progressive politics. It just is.
Or we can hire conservative Republicans like Knowlton and Fox and suffer the consequences of their poor fit.
One the true cancerous problems with Cal is that people think that it is somehow so unique. It isn't. It is a large land grant university that does what it does exceptionally well. But that doesn't make it a unicorn.
I am exceptionally down on this hire. Not that Madsen doesn't seem like a good guy but rather what he BEST sells isn't what Cal offers. If you really believe that about SAR and Jaylen Brown than wouldn't we want an articulate, socially progression, Team as family AA coach. I don't know....kinda like the guy who got us to a 4 seed and was undeafted at home.
Cal will continue to struggle until alumni/donors with influence really reflect on this. It isn't outrecruiting the Furds of the world because a school with 7K undergrads is a fundamentally different experience than one with 35K+. It needs to work harder because 60% of the state's population is south of the grapevine and UCLA has a **** load higher mindshare with the kids in southland than Cal. It needs to acknowledge that with 2.5% of its student population AA the team and coaching staff need to create a team as family culture and one that supports student athletes that will very much be in the minority on Campus.
These things are SO obvious to me. This is a turn around project that refuses to think realistically about the enviroment and market that it operates in and then tells itself stories about the "why" so as to not have to blow up some comforting myths.
The good news is that the turn around isn't that hard. The bad news is that it won't take place for ANOTHER 5 years until we get a chance to reload ONCE AGAIN.
socaltownie said:Is it? I mean there are equally progressive centers of excellence at say UC Boulder or Michigan or Wisconsin or UCLA.calumnus said:wc22 said:
"Shareef and Jaylen were McDonald's All Americans from Georgia who could have gone to ANY program in the country, but chose Cal largely because we had African American coaches that could sell Cal's diversity and history of fighting for social Justice. "
Says Calumnus.
Did you ask them? How does your COVID likes and bull**** match up with this? I would love to know.
It is weird how Jaylen is only brought up when talking about how to manipulate teenagers, but 3/4 of this board disavows him the second he says anything. Literally anything. FREE SPEECH (for people who parrot SNL skits).
There have been many articles with quotes from both (for Shareef it was also Cal's world renowned Near Eastern Studies/Islamic Studies department). Jaylen has spoken on the importance of giving opportunities to African American coaches and spoke with Knowlton about the advantages that would give Cal.
I get that is not your politics and you wish it was not Berkeley, but unless you are a 17 year old McDonald's All American basketball player your opinion (and mine) doesn't really matter. There are other schools that are far more attractive to any right-wing conservative McDonald's All Americans. Cal's comparative advantage is with top players with progressive politics. It just is.
Or we can hire conservative Republicans like Knowlton and Fox and suffer the consequences of their poor fit.
One the true cancerous problems with Cal is that people think that it is somehow so unique. It isn't. It is a large land grant university that does what it does exceptionally well. But that doesn't make it a unicorn.
I am exceptionally down on this hire. Not that Madsen doesn't seem like a good guy but rather what he BEST sells isn't what Cal offers. If you really believe that about SAR and Jaylen Brown than wouldn't we want an articulate, socially progression, Team as family AA coach. I don't know....kinda like the guy who got us to a 4 seed and was undeafted at home.
Cal will continue to struggle until alumni/donors with influence really reflect on this. It isn't outrecruiting the Furds of the world because a school with 7K undergrads is a fundamentally different experience than one with 35K+. It needs to work harder because 60% of the state's population is south of the grapevine and UCLA has a **** load higher mindshare with the kids in southland than Cal. It needs to acknowledge that with 2.5% of its student population AA the team and coaching staff need to create a team as family culture and one that supports student athletes that will very much be in the minority on Campus.
These things are SO obvious to me. This is a turn around project that refuses to think realistically about the enviroment and market that it operates in and then tells itself stories about the "why" so as to not have to blow up some comforting myths.
The good news is that the turn around isn't that hard. The bad news is that it won't take place for ANOTHER 5 years until we get a chance to reload ONCE AGAIN.
Spot on - his strengths don't align with what we need. This was a case where we knew exactly what we wanted. Had a candidate lined up, and still blew it.
What do you see? TypiCal.
Love this. Because I can rightly say that MM is going to be a good coach - just Not here.Econ141 said:
Spot on - his strengths don't align with what we need. This was a case where we knew exactly what we wanted. Had a candidate lined up, and still blew it.
What do you see? TypiCal.
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
I think he was the short-term answer because of his coattails.
His coattails included big money for NIL and the practice facility.
I don't want to throw any mud at him. He was my first choice for most of this ordeal.
However, Madsen is NBA,College All American, Bay Area, Fantastic person and personality. (JP doesn't check all of those boxes)
I can't imagine MadDog not acing the interview process. Hopefully some of the donors were in on the interviews.
His coattails included big money for NIL and the practice facility.
I don't want to throw any mud at him. He was my first choice for most of this ordeal.
However, Madsen is NBA,College All American, Bay Area, Fantastic person and personality. (JP doesn't check all of those boxes)
I can't imagine MadDog not acing the interview process. Hopefully some of the donors were in on the interviews.
These are 17 YO BOYS we're talking about. They are not men. These days, unless they get their politics from video games (there's a business opportunity for somebody), it's pretty unlikely they've formed rigid political opinions at all and they're more concerned with how they "fit" with prospective teammates and the general culture of the school. Actually, I'm being optimistic here, they may be more concerned with the style of the gear they'll get from the sponsoring apparel company. In any case, a smart head coach will add one or more guys to his staff who can skillfully develop an affinity with the majority of recruits. More than likely an African American guy, but who knows? Madsen spent much more of his professional career around Black athletes than the vast majority of us on this board. I suspect he learned how to develop constructive relationships with them. Wait - did he accept the offer?HKBear97! said:Wow, broad brush being used here to paint it so black and white. Are there really that many right-wing and left-wing McDonald's All Americans out there deciding their college choice solely on politics? Do we know Knowlton and Fox are both conservative Republicans? And what does that even mean, anyway? Haven't been to a basketball practice or hung out with my old coaches for awhile, so maybe things have changed, but don't recall much political discussion going on.calumnus said:wc22 said:
"Shareef and Jaylen were McDonald's All Americans from Georgia who could have gone to ANY program in the country, but chose Cal largely because we had African American coaches that could sell Cal's diversity and history of fighting for social Justice. "
Says Calumnus.
Did you ask them? How does your COVID likes and bull**** match up with this? I would love to know.
It is weird how Jaylen is only brought up when talking about how to manipulate teenagers, but 3/4 of this board disavows him the second he says anything. Literally anything. FREE SPEECH (for people who parrot SNL skits).
There have been many articles with quotes from both (for Shareef it was also Cal's world renowned Near Eastern Studies/Islamic Studies department). Jaylen has spoken on the importance of giving opportunities to African American coaches and spoke with Knowlton about the advantages that would give Cal.
I get that is not your politics and you wish it was not Berkeley, but unless you are a 17 year old McDonald's All American basketball player your opinion (and mine) doesn't really matter. There are other schools that are far more attractive to any right-wing conservative McDonald's All Americans. Cal's comparative advantage is with top players with progressive politics. It just is.
Or we can hire conservative Republicans like Knowlton and Fox and suffer the consequences of their poor fit.
My feeling is that:
Fox was a bad hire
Bennett would have been a bad hire
Pasternack would have been a good hire
Johnson would have been an intriguing, yet risky hire
AAR would have been an interesting hire with really interesting potential ramifications
Madsen is an uninspired hire.
My other guess is that his hire will triple our win total plus one next year, then bounce around from 14-18 wins a season for the rest of his tenure with one 20 win season that will extend his contract past the time he should be here, making another buyout necessary if the next AD cares at all about revenue sports.
Fox was a bad hire
Bennett would have been a bad hire
Pasternack would have been a good hire
Johnson would have been an intriguing, yet risky hire
AAR would have been an interesting hire with really interesting potential ramifications
Madsen is an uninspired hire.
My other guess is that his hire will triple our win total plus one next year, then bounce around from 14-18 wins a season for the rest of his tenure with one 20 win season that will extend his contract past the time he should be here, making another buyout necessary if the next AD cares at all about revenue sports.
I was thinking the same thing, about Madsen turning down the job. I don't believe anything until it's officially announced.bearsandgiants said:
If Madsen is the guy, there's nothing we can do about it but hope for the best. Maybe he will be a shocking surprise. The MBA is helpful, for sure. Gonna need to do a lot of business management in this new gig. If he's really all in and a turns into a true bear (not sure how that is possible but maybe) it would be fun to beat the furd with their own hero. Monty was right about his last recommendation that we passed on. Maybe he will be right here, too. I really worry about the NIL money thing, but if it's there, Madsen's probably as good as any at helping to facilitate it.
I do still have two thoughts. I'm thinking Pasternak wanted more money that we were willing to pay, and we ended up throwing just as much at Madsen, which would be a shame if true
Also, I wouldn't be surprised for Madsen to bail out of this at the last moment, unless it's already inked. Hoping it's already inked, if he's the guy.
I think that is right. Will help that 2 programs above us (UCLA and USC) are going away and only 1 likely added (SDSU) above us. We have some recruiting advantages to if B1G travel proves difficult.parentswerebears said:
My feeling is that:
Fox was a bad hire
Bennett would have been a bad hire
Pasternack would have been a good hire
Johnson would have been an intriguing, yet risky hire
AAR would have been an interesting hire with really interesting potential ramifications
Madsen is an uninspired hire.
My other guess is that his hire will triple our win total plus one next year, then bounce around from 14-18 wins a season for the rest of his tenure with one 20 win season that will extend his contract past the time he should be here, making another buyout necessary if the next AD cares at all about revenue sports.
But baring MM showing something extraoridnary I do not see him creating excitement. Not sure recruits even know any lakers other than Lebron and Kobe. Shaq's first visit to Haas will be instructive.
Realizing that I should have posted this question on this thread:
How much $$$ did UCSB provide in Joe P's extension? Assuming the Cal job is in the ~$2Mill range annually.
How much $$$ did UCSB provide in Joe P's extension? Assuming the Cal job is in the ~$2Mill range annually.
Here's the most important box that needed to be checked. Does this candidate have a resume that suggests they could be successful at Cal given where college basketball and the program currently is? Pasternack is a yes. AAR is a maybe. Stan Johnson is a no. Madsen is a no.calfanz said:
However, Madsen is NBA,College All American, Bay Area, Fantastic person and personality. (JP doesn't check all of those boxes)
I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
dan1997 said:Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Not to mention the role he had at U of A but that school's history might be doing at least some of the heavy lifting.
Sounds like he didn't have primary recruiting responsibilities for those studs at U of A, who did get mony under the table from guys that got federal indictmentsEcon141 said:dan1997 said:Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Not to mention the role he had at U of A but that school's history might be doing at least some of the heavy lifting.
Gabe Vincent, really? In 4-5 years you cite he develops NBA guys with Gabe f'ing Vincent? You think that is good enough for Cal? Good lordEcon141 said:dan1997 said:Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Not to mention the role he had at U of A but that school's history might be doing at least some of the heavy lifting.
SBGold said:Gabe Vincent, really? In 4-5 years you cite he develops NBA guys with Gabe f'ing Vincent? You think that is good enough for Cal? Good lordEcon141 said:dan1997 said:Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Not to mention the role he had at U of A but that school's history might be doing at least some of the heavy lifting.
Gabe Vincent was recruited to UCSB by Bob Williams
I thought that may have been the case, but didn't feel like looking it up.dimitrig said:SBGold said:Gabe Vincent, really? In 4-5 years you cite he develops NBA guys with Gabe f'ing Vincent? You think that is good enough for Cal? Good lordEcon141 said:dan1997 said:Try again...he developed Gabe Vincent into a NBA player, Jaquori McLaughlin is in G-League, plus others having good careers overseas like Amadou Sow (who he outrecruited power5's for), Max Heidegger among others. Plus, Ajay Mitchell will be drafted to NBA and Miles Norris has a chance to play at minimum in G-League.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
Not to mention the role he had at U of A but that school's history might be doing at least some of the heavy lifting.
Gabe Vincent was recruited to UCSB by Bob Williams
He took Kelly and seemed to make him worse after 2 years then when he was here
All speculation from amateur speculators.concernedparent said:Here's the most important box that needed to be checked. Does this candidate have a resume that suggests they could be successful at Cal given where college basketball and the program currently is? Pasternack is a yes. AAR is a maybe. Stan Johnson is a no. Madsen is a noyou are speculating.calfanz said:
However, Madsen is NBA,College All American, Bay Area, Fantastic person and personality. (JP doesn't check all of those boxes)
Time will tell!
Time to open your mind, your hearts and your wallets to optimize the situation.
parentswerebears said:
My feeling is that:
Fox was a bad hire
Bennett would have been a bad hire
Pasternack would have been a good hire
Johnson would have been an intriguing, yet risky hire
AAR would have been an interesting hire with really interesting potential ramifications
Madsen is an uninspired hire.
My other guess is that his hire will triple our win total plus one next year, then bounce around from 14-18 wins a season for the rest of his tenure with one 20 win season that will extend his contract past the time he should be here, making another buyout necessary if the next AD cares at all about revenue sports.
This is spot on. Exactly the way I see it.
Who is in their conference? He made the tournament and most importantly butts are in seats and students (and alumni and the community) are engaged.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
At a school like UCSB (and UCI, Long Beach to an extent UCSD and Riverside) that is the business case for D1 sports - that it brings people that matter onto campus and breaks down town/gown relationships.
I've been to UCSB games, that gym is small and many games not that engaged to say the leastsocaltownie said:Who is in their conference? He made the tournament and most importantly butts are in seats and students (and alumni and the community) are engaged.SBGold said:I'm not sure why UCSB thinks that though. He's been reasonably competitive but has not had any tourney success and it's not like they are landing topflight NBDA guys there.Econ141 said:calfanz said:
JP was the quick cure.
Often the quick cure isn't the best cure.
Cal me crazy, but I'm sorta loving this hire right now.
Not sure if that misspell was intentional lol.
UCSB thinks JP is a long-term cure. Would be interested in understanding why you think he'd only be a short term fix at Cal. I saw him as the answer for the next 5-10 years and the one who could bring us back to respectability the fastest.
At a school like UCSB (and UCI, Long Beach to an extent UCSD and Riverside) that is the business case for D1 sports - that it brings people that matter onto campus and breaks down town/gown relationships.
No ***** Everyone is speculating on performance. That's literally what hiring a person is about.calfanz said:All speculation from amateur speculators.concernedparent said:Here's the most important box that needed to be checked. Does this candidate have a resume that suggests they could be successful at Cal given where college basketball and the program currently is? Pasternack is a yes. AAR is a maybe. Stan Johnson is a no. Madsen is a noyou are speculating.calfanz said:
However, Madsen is NBA,College All American, Bay Area, Fantastic person and personality. (JP doesn't check all of those boxes)
Time will tell!
Time to open your mind, your hearts and your wallets to optimize the situation.
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