ducky23 said:

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Utep is not that good of a team. I'm sorry…but there have been past Fox teams that would've won that game.

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The first Fox team (with Jones' players) at the end of the season when they had time to gel. But not in their 5th game.

I don't agree, the hustle is definitely there. The big mistake with them is turnovers. Two games in a row with so many. They are a poor passing team and Tyson tries to do too much to makeup for the lack of cohesion.

bearister said:

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Civil Bear said:

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So if I'm following correctly, we can't pass, can't shoot, can't hold on to the ball, can't rebound, can't play D, have no offense strategy, and we are soft…..

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…..but as they used to say about Charles Manson, other than that, pretty darn solid.

ATTENDANCE
529

…75 more than at Cuonzo's NIT swan song.

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On tv it looked like about 22 Cal fans there. That was embarrassing

MoragaBear said:

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I'm not sure how fair everyone's being here. Cal's missing their starting PG, who played really well the last game before he went down. They're missing the guy who competed with Tyson in camp as their best 2-way player and likely starting 2 in Kennedy. They're missing one of their best shooters and depth players in Celestine. They're a radically different roster under a new staff with a revolving door of healthy personnel so far.

They lost to a team that seemed to be pretty good, though we'll see as the season progresses. They outshot UTEP 49 to 38% and 35 to 28% from three. They outrebounded them 31-30 despite UTEP being a fairly long athletic team that crashes the boards well. They fell behind several times but kept battling and tied it with seconds left.

Lots of bagging on Cone but he scored 15 (tied with Tyson for 2nd most) and hit half their 3's including the game-tying shot at the end.

The turnovers are bad, no question. But it's no coincidence that their two worst turnover games were the games their starting point guard has been out. Tyson's had 13 the last two games and he only averaged 1.7 per game last season so I assume that number will come way down.

Absolutely hated the loss to Pacific and the one to Montana State was not good either. But until they get back their injured players and play together a bit, they're going to lose some games like this one tonight. Doesn't mean Madson sucks or they aren't trying or clueless or not playing hard enough or without passion.

What we're looking at his head and shoulders above what we saw under Fox. I'm willing to take some lumps and see how they come together.

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Maybe I was being too harsh last night but when the ball is between 2-3 of our players, and a guy from the other team hustles to grab it or forces a jump ball, that is a problem. This happened not only last night but also against Montana State and Pacific.

I don't think having Askew would have made much of a difference on the amount of turnovers. The ball wasn't being turned over bringing the ball up the court. I remember Cone throwing it away around midcourt on a fast break when we had numbers but otherwise, I think we did a pretty good job of getting the ball into the front court without incident. We generally lost the ball when we were trying to run our half court offense. The ball can't be in Askew's hands all of the time nor do we want it to be. I would like Fardaws to give it up to a guard instead of dribbling it up. That was a turnover waiting to happen.

UTEP plays a very physical brand of hoops. They imposed their will on us last night. We felt them. I'm not sure they felt us. Lots of holding the grabbing but you gotta play the game the way it is being called. They have an identity. 5 games in, I'm not sure what our identity is as a team.

We panicked when we had the ball and threw way too many lackadaisical passes. It sure looked like we were intimidated. There were too many times where we picked up our dribble after going nowhere, and were making contested passes. Our OOB plays are no bueno.

My worry is that we don't have enough time to get everyone healthy and playing together. Yes, Celestine and Kennedy and Askew would help, but we had Askew and Celestine for Pacific and still lost, though that might have been the game where both Tyson and Newell sat out most of the 2nd half with cramps. I also don't want to use the injury excuse. That sounds too much like Fox.

I do believe Kennedy is the key. During huddles, he is the one talking to the other players. He appears to me to be the leader of the team. I'm really hoping that helps once he returns.

stu said:

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ducky23 said:

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Utep is not that good of a team. I'm sorry…but there have been past Fox teams that would've won that game.

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The first Fox team (with Jones' players) at the end of the season when they had time to gel. But not in their 5th game.

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During Fox's first year, they started 4-0 with wins over Pepperdine (16-16, 6th in WCC), UNLV (17-15, 4th in MWC) and Prairie View AM (14-4, 1st in SWAC).

Now its possible UTEP improves greatly, but last year they were 7-13 and finished 9th in Conf USA.

ducky23 said:

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stu said:

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ducky23 said:

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Utep is not that good of a team. I'm sorry…but there have been past Fox teams that would've won that game.

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The first Fox team (with Jones' players) at the end of the season when they had time to gel. But not in their 5th game.

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During Fox's first year, they started 4-0 with wins over Pepperdine (16-16, 6th in WCC), UNLV (17-15, 4th in MWC) and Prairie View AM (14-4, 1st in SWAC).

Now its possible UTEP improves greatly, but last year they were 7-13 and finished 9th in Conf USA.

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OK, I stand corrected.

MoragaBear said:

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I'm not sure how fair everyone's being here. Cal's missing their starting PG, who played really well the last game before he went down. They're missing the guy who competed with Tyson in camp as their best 2-way player and likely starting 2 in Kennedy. They're missing one of their best shooters and depth players in Celestine. They're a radically different roster under a new staff with a revolving door of healthy personnel so far.

They lost to a team that seemed to be pretty good, though we'll see as the season progresses. They outshot UTEP 49 to 38% and 35 to 28% from three. They outrebounded them 31-30 despite UTEP being a fairly long athletic team that crashes the boards well. They fell behind several times but kept battling and tied it with seconds left.

Lots of bagging on Cone but he scored 15 (tied with Tyson for 2nd most) and hit half their 3's including the game-tying shot at the end.

The turnovers are bad, no question. But it's no coincidence that their two worst turnover games were the games their starting point guard has been out. Tyson's had 13 the last two games and he only averaged 1.7 per game last season so I assume that number will come way down.

Absolutely hated the loss to Pacific and the one to Montana State was not good either. But until they get back their injured players and play together a bit, they're going to lose some games like this one tonight. Doesn't mean Madson sucks or they aren't trying or clueless or not playing hard enough or without passion.

What we're looking at his head and shoulders above what we saw under Fox. I'm willing to take some lumps and see how they come together.

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My hyper-critical comments fell under the category of "venting during the game or shortly thereafter", acceptable on the game thread according to Bear Insiders rule 24c.

But this team has a passing/facilitation/ball-handling problem. It always, IMO, looked to be our weakness, now made even more acute by the loss of Askew. Defense was better last night and needs to continue to improve. It will be interesting to see what Madsen and his staff can dial up. These guys (the coaches) are professionals: They will look at where we're at and figure out ways to make things better. And hopefully that will work!

Quote:

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My hyper-critical comments fell under the category of "venting during the game or shortly thereafter", acceptable on the game thread according to Bear Insiders rule 24c.

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That's rule 24h, 24 hours for Legends.