concernedparent said:

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Civil Bear said:

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concernedparent said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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Oakbear said:

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"I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year."

have to balance the criminal acts against the reduction in NIL required LOL

that said, given the "me too" movement, I no longer assume that the guy is the bad person, more open to the woman is exaggerating or ???

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SMH at the last statement, and smh at the trivializing responses of some here that make it seem like they wouldn't care even if they knew he was guilty. I hope that is not what anyone means.

IMO, this is a bad move. 1. This is a significant legal risk. If he does anything similar at Cal, Cal is going to get sued because they knew his alleged history when they brought him in. 2. I don't think the publicity is worth it. 3. If he got NIL, there is a good chance that some are going to shy away from donating if they think this is where their money might go.

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Frankly, I don't want players like this representing our program. It's made even more puzzling because he's done absolutely nothing in two years of college ball. Like last year he played SEVEN minutes in one game prior to his suspension. He was a deep bench player for a team that was WORSE than us last year.

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That was due to an injury prior to the game he played 7 minutes.

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I understand he was hurt prior to the game. The emphasis is on the seven. He only earned seven minutes in a game for one of the worst P5 programs last year. Do you think any real contributor only plays seven minutes in a game even after coming back from injury?

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Yes, it's not uncommon at all.

Johnfox said:

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NEWS: Vanderbilt transfer big man Lee Dort has committed to Cal, source tells @On3sports.

Former four-star recruit. https://t.co/LherOQcvKN pic.twitter.com/LShqlzjSYG

— Joe Tipton (@TiptonEdits) April 8, 2024

Lee Dort has committed to Cal! Looks like more of a depth piece that may contend for a starting job.

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Former top 50 recruit out of HS, according to Write for Cal article on BR.

sluggo said:

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anieves said:

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This is the most recent story I see on the issue. Says he was going through a pre-trial diversion program and case was going to be dismissed.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2024/01/11/lee-dort-arrest-vanderbilt-basketball-suspension/72111118007/

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I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year.

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He completed his pre trial diversion program on March 28th, and the charges were dismissed. The protective order against him was also withdrawn (prior to that date). Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, and it seems that Madsen was waiting for final resolution of the diversion agreement before pulling the trigger on Dort.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Trying to be practical here. Ignoring the baggage, he's 6-10, 245, I like it.

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And was a top 50 recruit out of hs, per Write for California (on BR). And aparraently was admissible to Vandy. And is a Soph (so offers some roster stability. And Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, so there is familiarity.

DaveT said:

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I thought this write up from Bleacher Report about Dort was interesting (2021, following Vandy commitment).

Bleacher Report article

From the article:

"The 6'9", 240-pound Texas native is ranked the No. 9 center in the class of 2022 and the No. 59 player overall by 247Sports. He chose the Commodores over offers from Memphis, Arizona, Arizona State, Kansas, Baylor, California and more. . . . Evan Daniels, then 247Sports' director of basketball recruiting, evaluated Dort in 2018 and projected him as a future first-round NBA pick."

No idea if he works out, and obviously a rocky path since the article was written, but signing former top prospects who may need a change of scenery (especially when our staff is familiar with them) seems like a solid strategy for a team with limited NIL money.

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I wonder if he's related to OKC's Lou Dort, a 6'4" guard/wing who's built like a tank.

I'm just hoping he turns out to be the next Markhuri Sanders Frison! He was fun to have on the team!

The only reason is that he seems to have a similar body - type. No other connection intended.

BeachedBear said:

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I'm just hoping he turns out to be the next Markhuri Sanders Frison! He was fun to have on the team!

The only reason is that he seems to have a similar body - type. No other connection intended.

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Also 6'9" and apparently a center

"As far as the criminal justice system is concerned, the charge never happened. … So in some senses, why should anyone else use that against him?"

I'm all for 2nd chances… let's face it, the 2024-25 Bears will be an entire team made of 2nd chance unknowns, we're not getting the top-tier transfer guys with fat career stats, it's just not a realistic expectation. As others have said, we have to hope that Madsen is like your grandma at an estate sale, able to pick out the real diamonds in a pile of junk.
But on the question of, "Is Dort's character Cal material," let's not pretend that because a charge wasn't filed, that is the same thing as "nothing happened," or "the girlfriend made the whole thing up." Something happened, and we'll never know what. But if you're a 6'10" guy who is attracting police attention by fighting with a girl half your weight, that is something to be concerned about, not dismissed. It probably means you have trouble controlling your temper, and God knows we don't need that on the court.
I intend to judge Dort based only on his actions on Cal's campus, but someone (Madsen, Mazarei, etc) needs to have "the talk" with him about zero tolerance and excuses for that kind of BS once he's at Cal.

Pittstop said:

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sluggo said:

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anieves said:

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This is the most recent story I see on the issue. Says he was going through a pre-trial diversion program and case was going to be dismissed.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2024/01/11/lee-dort-arrest-vanderbilt-basketball-suspension/72111118007/

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I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year.

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He completed his pre trial diversion program on March 28th, and the charges were dismissed. The protective order against him was also withdrawn (prior to that date). Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, and it seems that Madsen was waiting for final resolution of the diversion agreement before pulling the trigger on Dort.

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Which doesn't mean it did not happen. I prefer that he was not recruited.

sluggo said:

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Pittstop said:

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sluggo said:

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anieves said:

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This is the most recent story I see on the issue. Says he was going through a pre-trial diversion program and case was going to be dismissed.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2024/01/11/lee-dort-arrest-vanderbilt-basketball-suspension/72111118007/

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I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year.

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He completed his pre trial diversion program on March 28th, and the charges were dismissed. The protective order against him was also withdrawn (prior to that date). Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, and it seems that Madsen was waiting for final resolution of the diversion agreement before pulling the trigger on Dort.

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Which doesn't mean it did not happen. I prefer that he was not recruited.

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Likely not a starter. But I agree.

sluggo said:

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Pittstop said:

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sluggo said:

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anieves said:

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This is the most recent story I see on the issue. Says he was going through a pre-trial diversion program and case was going to be dismissed.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2024/01/11/lee-dort-arrest-vanderbilt-basketball-suspension/72111118007/

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I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year.

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He completed his pre trial diversion program on March 28th, and the charges were dismissed. The protective order against him was also withdrawn (prior to that date). Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, and it seems that Madsen was waiting for final resolution of the diversion agreement before pulling the trigger on Dort.

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Which doesn't mean it did not happen. I prefer that he was not recruited.

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Sort of brings up a good point, Sluggo. How heavily recruited was he? Was significant time and expense put into getting him to Cal?

Or was it simply he was looking for second chance and reached out to one of the Cal coaches for a spot?

Also, is he taking a spot that 2 or 3 other/better players could take (I doubt it)?

That info along with how effective he is on the court, will help me form my judgment. Until then, just off-season noise indicating there isn't better bs to chit chat about.

barsad said:

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"As far as the criminal justice system is concerned, the charge never happened. … So in some senses, why should anyone else use that against him?"

I'm all for 2nd chances… let's face it, the 2024-25 Bears will be an entire team made of 2nd chance unknowns, we're not getting the top-tier transfer guys with fat career stats, it's just not a realistic expectation. As others have said, we have to hope that Madsen is like your grandma at an estate sale, able to pick out the real diamonds in a pile of junk.
But on the question of, "Is Dort's character Cal material," let's not pretend that because a charge wasn't filed, that is the same thing as "nothing happened," or "the girlfriend made the whole thing up." Something happened, and we'll never know what. But if you're a 6'10" guy who is attracting police attention by fighting with a girl half your weight, that is something to be concerned about, not dismissed. It probably means you have trouble controlling your temper, and God knows we don't need that on the court.
I intend to judge Dort based only on his actions on Cal's campus, but someone (Madsen, Mazarei, etc) needs to have "the talk" with him about zero tolerance and excuses for that kind of BS once he's at Cal.

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Solid take. It's a balance. I ripped into Dana Altman when he had multiple current players at the time accused of sexual assault, and I believe he still wound up playing them as the league tournament and the post season loomed. I should be consistent. But it may be different in Oregon's situation that ours as I believe they had not been cleared. But our own assistant coach was accused of sexual harassment on the eve of our first round game v. Hawaii. I forget if he was allowed to coach. Facts are hazy, but it's not an easy call -- lots of factors to consider.

KoreAmBear said:

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Pittstop said:

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sluggo said:

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anieves said:

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This is the most recent story I see on the issue. Says he was going through a pre-trial diversion program and case was going to be dismissed.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2024/01/11/lee-dort-arrest-vanderbilt-basketball-suspension/72111118007/

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I was hoping Cal would only recruit players this year that did not have to go through pre-trial diversion programs. Maybe next year.

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He completed his pre trial diversion program on March 28th, and the charges were dismissed. The protective order against him was also withdrawn (prior to that date). Cal's Mazzerei recruited him to Vandy, and it seems that Madsen was waiting for final resolution of the diversion agreement before pulling the trigger on Dort.

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As far as the criminal justice system is concerned, the charge never happened. He met the requirements of the pre trial diversion program. You cannot use that against him as an employer as it not on record as a conviction. So in some senses, why should anyone else use that against him? I mean people can of course in the court of public opinion, like against Trevor Bauer, even though a criminal investigation was not pursued and he was not found to have violated any MLB policy. Yet no one wants to take a chance on him.

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On the one hand my initial gut reaction to CivilBear's and other posters' position of not believing women because of the MeToo movement was one of disbelief. I mean, if anything, the MeToo movement has shown that sexual harassment and assault of women is all too commonplace.

On the other hand, I recall hearing Marcellus Wiley talk on the radio about how he learned early on to exit from a situation before it gets physical and to make sure he has witnesses; he mentioned one particular argument he had with a then-girlfriend who tried to accuse him of physical abuse but because he ran out of the building before anything physical could happen and he had witnesses to prove it, he was in the clear.

As it is, I tend to fall back in "trust but verify," the same advice all attorneys are given with respect to their clients. I'll trust that the women are telling the truth, but before taking subsequent action, I'd verify their side of the story.

In Dort's case, I suspect something happened, otherwise he wouldn't have participated in the pretrial diversion program. While it's very possible that he participated in the program in order to minimize the costs of mounting a legal defense, it is also more indicative of guilt than not, IMHO. Frankly, this is sufficient for me to think Madsen should not have recruited him.

Of course, if Dort did assault his girlfriend and participated in the diversion program as part of a process to take accountability for his actions and learn from his mistakes, I applaud him. However, that still doesn't mean Madsen should've recruited him. At least not unless Dort commits not just to not assaulting people (especially romantic partners) in the future but actively participates in promoting non-violence and peaceful conflict resolution. Who knows, maybe Dort will surprise people and prove that to be the case. For his sake (if not also Cal's) I hope he does.

"On the one hand my initial gut reaction to CivilBear's and other posters' position of not believing women because of the MeToo movement was one of disbelief. I mean, if anything, the MeToo movement has shown that sexual harassment and assault of women is all too commonplace."

even before metoo, anyone with a brain knew that sexual assault and harassment was all too commonplace

the problem with metoo is that if a woman is pissed off enough to make false claims (and I know this happens and any honest person would know this too) it can really screw over the person accused (I used person as I know of a same sex female couple that had this happen) .. the accuser is usually perceived as innocent, and probably usually are, but the exceptions can really cause the accused big problems, with little to no defense as "he said/she said .. or as the case I know shesaid/shesaid) ..

Oakbear said:

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"On the one hand my initial gut reaction to CivilBear's and other posters' position of not believing women because of the MeToo movement was one of disbelief. I mean, if anything, the MeToo movement has shown that sexual harassment and assault of women is all too commonplace."

even before metoo, anyone with a brain knew that sexual assault and harassment was all too commonplace

the problem with metoo is that if a woman is pissed off enough to make false claims (and I know this happens and any honest person would know this too) it can really screw over the person accused (I used person as I know of a same sex female couple that had this happen) .. the accuser is usually perceived as innocent, and probably usually are, but the exceptions can really cause the accused big problems, with little to no defense as "he said/she said .. or as the case I know shesaid/shesaid) ..

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I agree that false reporting does happen, but statistically, false reporting is very rare. There are a number of highly publicized and well-known instances of false reporting (e.g., the Duke lacrosse team case, Brian Banks), but that proves just how exceptionally rare false reporting is. When a dog bites a man, it makes few headlines (if any), but when a man bites a dog, it ledes because it's so sensational due to its rarity.

That said, rather than disbelieving the accusers from the get go, the better plan of action may be to trust but verify. Believe them, but verify the facts with additional investigation. If the facts end up being he-said v. she-said, then so be it. Let the accuser know that's where the facts lead. Let her know that she's been heard and believed, but no other action can be taken because the facts don't necessarily lead to that possibility at this time.

01Bear said:

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On the one hand my initial gut reaction to CivilBear's and other posters' position of not believing women because of the MeToo movement was one of disbelief. I mean, if anything, the MeToo movement has shown that sexual harassment and assault of women is all too commonplace.

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Woah! Where in the F*** did I ever say that?! You really need to check your s*** before you post.

Civil Bear said:

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01Bear said:

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On the one hand my initial gut reaction to CivilBear's and other posters' position of not believing women because of the MeToo movement was one of disbelief. I mean, if anything, the MeToo movement has shown that sexual harassment and assault of women is all too commonplace.

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Woah! Where in the F*** did I ever say that?! You really need to check your s*** before you post.

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You're right! I'm so sorry! I got you mixed up with edwinbear and Oakbear! Mea culpa!

Typed words all look alike.

Bobodeluxe said:

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Typed words all look alike.

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I'm truly apologetic to CivilBear for maligning him!

01Bear said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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Typed words all look alike.

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I'm truly apologetic to CivilBear for maligning him!

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Thank you. All cool brah.

Civil Bear said:

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01Bear said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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Typed words all look alike.

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I'm truly apologetic to CivilBear for maligning him!

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Thank you. All cool brah.

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Thank you for your gracious acceptance! Truly!