smokeyrover said:

---

This court is better than the massive bear during the Cuonzo era, but as with the most recent oversized 'Cal' script design it gets a middling grade C at best.

I like the concept of featuring the state shape - classic look that works well for UNC and Indiana, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. Using the outline of the state instead of a full colored-in shape just isn't very strong graphically.

For comparison:


And it seems like the outline was used in place of a full colored-in state shape to accommodate putting "California" instead of "Cal" on top of the state shape (not enough room to reverse the text - white text on solid color).

If having both state shape and California was deemed essential seems like the wood tone state shape with a bold California script overlaid would have been a stronger look.

I'm not a fan of the California or Golden Bears script lettering. Looks like softball jersey style. I prefer California and Golden Bears in the block letter style. Overall, it's a design fail, but like the concept.

---

I agree with all your points. Returning to "California" as our brand makes sense entering the ACC even though many fans are still attached to "Cal" exclusively but the execution here is poor. Again, I agree with all your points. The size and fonts are terrible…

My first choice would be a Big C at center court. Second choice would be the script Cal.

I assume the underside of the center court scoreboard will still have the Cal script logo?

And why are the academics at Berkeley so embarrassed by the Cal logo?

HoopDreams said:

---

Cal and California are both great for sports, with Cal being an awesome logo

Colleges using a single letter is so passe…. A, B, C, D, F, G,H, I, K, M, N,O, P,R,S,T,V,W,X,Y are all college logos

Berkeley is fine for academics, but California is also good. About the farthest I'd want is the Welcome to Berkeley on the baseboard behind the students

I always use Cal for both sports and academics

Now considering Cal and California are both strong sports brands why do we put Golden Bears on uniforms and under the basket?

rkt88edmo said:

---

Lotta people Lyons needs to fire. I guess I'm glad we didn't end up with a Big B in center court?
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/uc-berkeley-launches-first-part-rebrand-cal-19472766.php



We have two official logos, neither of which is "California". These can be used in Blue and Gold

---

---

The website logo and two descriptions represent three different names for the university, all at the same time. And this is our branding solution?

Agree. Now the only Cal is the corner high up where most people barely see, and no big C or Bear logo anywhere

01Bear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Cal and California are both great for sports, with Cal being an awesome logo

Colleges using a single letter is so passe…. A, B, C, D, F, G,H, I, K, M, N,O, P,R,S,T,V,W,X,Y are all college logos

Berkeley is fine for academics, but California is also good. About the farthest I'd want is the Welcome to Berkeley on the baseboard behind the students

I always use Cal for both sports and academics

Now considering Cal and California are both strong sports brands why do we put Golden Bears on uniforms and under the basket?

rkt88edmo said:

---

Lotta people Lyons needs to fire. I guess I'm glad we didn't end up with a Big B in center court?
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/uc-berkeley-launches-first-part-rebrand-cal-19472766.php



We have two official logos, neither of which is "California". These can be used in Blue and Gold

---

---

I agree.


IMHO, the Cal Script should remain on the court, even if not at center court. It could be at the 3/4 mark in each half of the court. I'd also like to see "California" and "Golden Bears" along the baselines. I'm not fond of the state outline on the court, especially at half-court where it makes a backcourt violation more difficult to identify.

Along those lines, I really dislike anything at center court preventing the half-court line from being easily seen and identified. I wouldn't mind seeing the walking bear logo on either side of center court (thereby completing a circle with their backs/silhouettes) bisected by the half-court line on which they're walking.

---

To your point. If we were back in the sixties and we were talking about the "G.E. College Bowl", the term Berkeley would come into play.

Football, basketball, etc > CALIFORNIA or CAL

AunBear89 said:

---

It bears repeating whenever this conversation arises: Berkeley is a globally recognized education brand, on a par with the Ivies, Oxbridge, and any other institution of higher education you wish to include. Tell just about any person on the planet that has education beyond grammar school, that you graduated from Berkeley, and odds are very high they know what that means.

Use any other term (Cal, California, The University of California, etc) and they will look confused. Use any hybrid (UC Berkeley, Cal Berkeley) and they will ask "Is that in the same town as Berkeley?"

Cal and California for sports.

Berkeley for education.


Why is this so hard?

---

I dunno, I feel like UC Berkeley and Berkeley are pretty interchangeable and would not lead to any confusion. I agree that there's the disconnect when you introduce Cal/California potentially but haven't really seen people think UC Berkeley and Berkeley might be distinct things.

Then again I grew up in California so maybe there's a head start there in knowing the UC system...but I feel like the international reputation is aware that we're part of the UC system.

Perhaps, but most non English speakers will hear " You see".

I would accept Oski's butt cheeks as a center court logo and "Berkelifornia" if it would buy us a top tier point guard and a big man who plays good defense.

mbBear said:

---

StillNoStanfurdium said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

It bears repeating whenever this conversation arises: Berkeley is a globally recognized education brand, on a par with the Ivies, Oxbridge, and any other institution of higher education you wish to include. Tell just about any person on the planet that has education beyond grammar school, that you graduated from Berkeley, and odds are very high they know what that means.

Use any other term (Cal, California, The University of California, etc) and they will look confused. Use any hybrid (UC Berkeley, Cal Berkeley) and they will ask "Is that in the same town as Berkeley?"

Cal and California for sports.

Berkeley for education.


Why is this so hard?

---

I dunno, I feel like UC Berkeley and Berkeley are pretty interchangeable and would not lead to any confusion. I agree that there's the disconnect when you introduce Cal/California potentially but haven't really seen people think UC Berkeley and Berkeley might be distinct things.

Then again I grew up in California so maybe there's a head start there in knowing the UC system...but I feel like the international reputation is aware that we're part of the UC system.

---

I won't speak for internationally, but having lived outside of California since 1979, I can tell you anecdotally that a majority of people don't understand that the relationship between Cal and UCLA, and/or the difference of "Cal State..." In fact, I think I have had more people asking/assuming there is a relationship between Cal and "Southern Cal."
I haven't worked in academia, and my take away is from sports fans, like in sports bars et. al....
Having been involved with the alumni Club of Philadelphia, and a frequent attendee at the accepted students reception in mid-April, that was probably had a more aware crowd, I will you give you that...(University did away with sponsoring that, which was so dumb...our soft recruiting efforts were a great success.)

---

I understand that Cal and UCLA aren't inherently connected by name and know that people might not know the relation. I was saying that I don't think there's a disconnect between UC Berkeley and Berkeley.

BearSD said:

---

It's mind boggling that some of you graduates of the University of California hate the word "California" so much.

---

I don't think anybody here is hating on the word "California." The common opinion is that it should be presented to represent the University, not the state.

calumnus said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

BearSD said:

---

It's mind boggling that some of you graduates of the University of California hate the word "California" so much.

---

I don't think anybody here is hating on the word "California." The common opinion is that it should be presented to represent the University, not the state.

---

Alabama, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oregon, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Wyoming, Ohio State, Georgia, Oklahoma, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Colorado, Virginia, Arkansas….et al all represent their STATE. That was us too. "We are sons of California" means of the state of California. The Golden Bear is the state mascot. None of those other schools is the only school in their state. They still represent the state.

The difference for us is we let a private school like "University of Southern California" and a satellite campus "University of California, Los Angeles" dictate to us that we don't represent the state and we should just call ourselves "Cal" and we let an elitist (or defeatist?) mindset grow that not only do we not represent the state, we don't even represent the East Bay anymore, not even the city, not even the entire university, just one campus. If we really only represent the campus, why not compete as "Berkeley"?

ALL our fight songs refer to us as "California." All of them. Many fans may have gotten used to just being that loveable loser "Cal" but now that we are entering the ACC and will not be competing with UCLA and USC it is a great time to reclaim our rightful title as "California" and represent the entire state and hopefully start re-building a brand and fan base around that. "Cal" is a nickname, no different really than "Cali" which most on the board hate,

---

I would posit "Cal" is short for "California" much as "Bama" is short for "Alabama" and "Wisky" is short for "Wisconsin." In other words, referring to our alma mater as "Cal" is really little different than referring to it as "California."

That said, I absolutely agree that our Athletic Department really needs to push the California/Cal brand(s) as representing the entire state of California. Our alma mater is not the University of Berkeley; it's the University of California!

calumnus said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

BearSD said:

---

It's mind boggling that some of you graduates of the University of California hate the word "California" so much.

---

I don't think anybody here is hating on the word "California." The common opinion is that it should be presented to represent the University, not the state.

---

Alabama, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oregon, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Wyoming, Ohio State, Georgia, Oklahoma, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Colorado, Virginia, Arkansas….et al all represent their STATE. That was us too. "We are sons of California" means of the state of California. The Golden Bear is the state mascot. None of those other schools is the only school in their state. They still represent the state.

The difference for us is we let a private school like "University of Southern California" and a satellite campus "University of California, Los Angeles" dictate to us that we don't represent the state and we should just call ourselves "Cal" and we let an elitist (or defeatist?) mindset grow that not only do we not represent the state, we don't even represent the East Bay anymore, not even the city, not even the entire university, just one campus. If we really only represent the campus, why not compete as "Berkeley"?

ALL our fight songs refer to us as "California." All of them. Many fans may have gotten used to just being that loveable loser "Cal" but now that we are entering the ACC and will not be competing with UCLA and USC it is a great time to reclaim our rightful title as "California" and represent the entire state and hopefully start re-building a brand and fan base around that. "Cal" is a nickname, no different really than "Cali" which most on the board hate,

---

Maybe that's really where you're coming from. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one don't associate Cal with the term "lovable loser." For instance, in football, for every Notre Dame there is a Wake Forest or a Colorado State. In basketball, for every Duke, there is a Vanderbilt or a Minnesota. People always want to put Cal down because we are more often than not mediocre in the two major sports. Well that same classification can be applied to at least 70 Div 1 football teams and 200 Div 1 basketball teams.

I know I'm getting technical here, but in general people outside of the state of California know that this state is quite big and contains other schools (i.e.USC) and areas(i.e Southern California, Central California.) The visual picture of states like North Carolina, Indiana, Nebraska, etc. projects an image of one general area. Like it or not, at the very least people outside of California still know that it's a very big state geographically, divided into regions, more obviously Northern and Southern.

So instead of trying to conform with these other schools, (when has the Cal culture ever really been a conforming one?), my opinion is to be Cal, or California and base it on the university, not a picture of the entire state. If people in other states can't identify us because we don't have a picture under our logo, then so be it. As long as we know our identity, all of that other stuff doesn't really matter.

With all due respect, your reply about "riff raff", Stanford, and everything else is really way out there. I find it a bit insulting that you think you can read insinuations from a counter argument. For as long as I can remember, in most occasions our brand has not been represented with a picture of the state. Just becomes something is changed, that doesn't automatically make something better. I honestly don't think a picture of the state of California is going to improve or bring in more fans from the east bay.

Having an athletic department that has better marketing, such as letting students into basketball games for free, offering a "family package" to basketball games for residents in the surrounding area, will accomplish a whole lot more than posting a picture of the state of California by our name.

Agree, Cal and California for sports. I think most of us here agree on that.

An Easter egg Berkeley is ok for me, like the example shown before, but should never be more than that, and Berkeley should never be on uniforms or the lead brand in anything sports

I think it's the academic side where there is more controversy (not saying I disagree with Berkeley)

AunBear89 said:

---

To reiterate:
Cal and/or California for sports

Berkeley for academics.

The dichotomy already exists, the PR folks have failed to emphasize this. The disastrous "What do you see? UC Berkeley!" ads were not helpful.

Oppenheimer was asked why he hadn't studied theoretical physics at Berkeley, not Cal or California. He of course replied that he hadn't started the program yet.

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

Your points are quite valid, you make several good ones and I do appreciate what you're saying. But isn't this whole issue about branding or marketing? I happen to think (and my guess is many others think the same way) that in athletics the brands CALIFORNIA or Cal serve the best purpose, plain and simple.

Notice I am not a proponent of California Berkeley, Cal Berkeley, or UC Berkeley. And adding a picture of the state feels like overkill. The bottom line is, if our marketing department does a better job, and we can be more successful in the win/loss column, that will make a much bigger difference for our brand as opposed to all of this other stuff. This whole discussion reminds me of when a business website makes a change - just for the sake of making a change, and in many cases the results of the change come out actually worse. Just my take.

---

Agreed. The marketing department is too set on adapting "Berkeley" for no real good reason.

CNHTH said:

---

https://imgur.com/a/X8KmjD8
Seeing the court in person it really isn't that bad.
What I don't like is the state outline in just blue. It's bland and too many blue lines. Imho it would look amazing if they filled the outline of the state with the darker colored hardwood that appears in the paint areas

---

Surprise surprise, I think it sucks. Again even in the world of athletics why are we conforming to the layout of other universities? The number one public university conforms with everyone else? And one more counter argument to the "align with the state" proponents. I note that on the state flag, the bear is standing on a patch of green (grass?), and there is a red horizontal stripe along the bottom. Should we change our colors to green and red to project the correct image? I rest my case on this issue.

The floor design's desirability has increased in direct proportion to our recruiting prowess this cycle. It's looking good.

bearsandgiants said:

---

The floor design's desirability has increased in direct proportion to our recruiting prowess this cycle. It's looking good.

---

Now I get it. It's the state outline behind the script "California" that MadDog is using as a selling point to the recruits. I can't really argue with that!