Steam67;842824356 said:

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I would posit that the pressure at NC State is pretty high. Hoops expectations in these parts are significant.

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Certainly, they are still in the delusional JimmyV stage while Duke, UNC and others have eclipsed them. Nobody has succeeded there in a while. It's like Nebraska in football- it will never be enough

Then there is this

mention defense specifically, because that's been a hallmark of Gottfried coached teams: poor defense with slipshod attention to the fundamentals. Few players that play for him leave the program significantly improved, and it is fair to say that others left it worse players. C.J. Leslie specifically comes to mind in that case.

Then there is the annual mass exodus of players at the end of the year, with most of them hardly complimentary of Gottfried or his management of his players. Ask Tyler Lewis, now at Butler, or Rodney Purvis, or many of the others at both NC State AND Alabama about that. They'll say that Gottfried was disingenuous at best, and many call him a liar outright.

100% would rather go after someone's whose ceiling we don't already know. I have no clue, but highly doubt, that he would have been any good at NCSU with our recruiting restrictions. This is like ASU hiring Sendeck. He was meh. Except with ASU restrictions, not Berkeley.

grandmastapoop;842824354 said:

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Gottfried got NC State to 4 tourneys and 2 Sweet 16s in 6 years. Yes, I want to swing for the fences. But that kind of success would be unprecedented for Cal, and certainly not an unmitigated disaster. He also took Alabama to an Elite 8, and wasn't fired but resigned.

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He resigned because he was about to be fired. As he played with his recruits at NC State his productivity fell off.

In SCT's world SEEDING is a lot more important than S16. Stuff happens (both good and bad). You just can't look at TWO GAMES and draw big conclusions

So his first S16 game he wins (as the 11) the 11-6 game against San Diego State and then the next game against GTOWN before losing to KU
In his second S16 he wins the 8/9 and then upsets Villanova before losing to Louiseville

He underperformed in 2012-13 when he was ranked at #6 in the preseason only to lose the 8/9 match up in the tournament.


Most troubling is the collapse this year - where I think they lost 8 straight in the ACC - and many of those were blowouts.

socaltownie;842824368 said:

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He resigned because he was about to be fired. As he played with his recruits at NC State his productivity fell off.

In SCT's world SEEDING is a lot more important than S16. Stuff happens (both good and bad). You just can't look at TWO GAMES and draw big conclusions

So his first S16 game he wins (as the 11) the 11-6 game against San Diego State and then the next game against GTOWN before losing to KU
In his second S16 he wins the 8/9 and then upsets Villanova before losing to Louiseville

He underperformed in 2012-13 when he was ranked at #6 in the preseason only to lose the 8/9 match up in the tournament.


Most troubling is the collapse this year - where I think they lost 8 straight in the ACC - and many of those were blowouts.

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I'm with you, mostly. I care much more about the entire season than a couple games in March. I'm just saying, he's had a lot of success. I wouldn't be thrilled if he was hired (seems like a poor fit, for one). I just don't think it'd be a disaster, at least upon hiring.

grandmastapoop;842824376 said:

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I'm with you, mostly. I care much more about the entire season than a couple games in March. I'm just saying, he's had a lot of success. I wouldn't be thrilled if he was hired (seems like a poor fit, for one). I just don't think it'd be a disaster, at least upon hiring.

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What I look at is seeding. It is the fairest appraisal (and helps with achieving your goals of getting to the second week. You can "do it" as an 8/9....just a lot harder than a 4

socaltownie;842824380 said:

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What I look at is seeding. It is the fairest appraisal (and helps with achieving your goals of getting to the second week. You can "do it" as an 8/9....just a lot harder than a 4

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Eh, seeding isn't always very accurate. Wichita State this season was not a 10 seed based on the quality of their team. That 2010 Cal team was much better than its seeding as well. We were penalized for how bad the PAC-10 was that season.

tsubamoto2001;842824384 said:

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Eh, seeding isn't always very accurate. Wichita State this season was not a 10 seed based on the quality of their team. That 2010 Cal team was much better than its seeding as well. We were penalized for how bad the PAC-10 was that season.

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No. It isn't ALWAYS accurate but it isn't bad. To be a consistent S16 aspirant you can not be getting into the field by the skin of your teeth. You might catch lighening once or twice but it isn't something to count on and it is fairer to say "You never got better than an 8/9 than to say "Hey, you pulled up an upset or two"

This is particularly true unless you do an autopsy on the game. Might be some player got injured on the 1....or that there were wacky fouls that cost a starter most of a half.

Given how conflicted the fan base, as represented by BI, is about whom to hire, it doesn't surprise me that it's taking so long, especially with candidates such as Musselman and Bennett supposedly removing themselves from consideration. What's pretty clear to me is that, no matter who is hired, there's going to be some criticism from the peanut gallery. That's even true if it's a surprise name from out-of-region, given how stung many are feeling by the outcome with Martin.

I think my first measure of success, no matter who is hired, is for the new coach to hold on to the recruiting class of Harris-Dyson, et. al., as well as Charlie Moore, if at all possible. Losing them means really going back to the drawing board, which would be disappointing.

Jeff82;842824387 said:

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Given how conflicted the fan base, as represented by BI, is about whom to hire, it doesn't surprise me that it's taking so long, especially with candidates such as Musselman and Bennett supposedly removing themselves from consideration. What's pretty clear to me is that, no matter who is hired, there's going to be some criticism from the peanut gallery. That's even true if it's a surprise name from out-of-region, given how stung many are feeling by the outcome with Martin.

I think my first measure of success, no matter who is hired, is for the new coach to hold on to the recruiting class of Harris-Dyson, et. al., as well as Charlie Moore, if at all possible. Losing them means really going back to the drawing board, which would be disappointing.

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I think if the only goal was to appease as many fans as possible, you just hire Gates and call it a day. However, even though Gates is one of my top choices, I could see why the AD would have hesitation handing the reigns to someone with no HC experience.

With that said, the surest way to put your job in jeopardy is to hire some retread that no one wants, and that retread ends up failing. bottom line, if you hire someone unpopular, you better be damn sure they work out.

Working players to exhaustion can catch up yo you at the end of the year. We have seen this two years in a row

Self deleted Booth.

Jeff82;842824387 said:

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Given how conflicted the fan base, as represented by BI, is about whom to hire, it doesn't surprise me that it's taking so long, especially with candidates such as Musselman and Bennett supposedly removing themselves from consideration. What's pretty clear to me is that, no matter who is hired, there's going to be some criticism from the peanut gallery. That's even true if it's a surprise name from out-of-region, given how stung many are feeling by the outcome with Martin.

I think my first measure of success, no matter who is hired, is for the new coach to hold on to the recruiting class of Harris-Dyson, et. al., as well as Charlie Moore, if at all possible. Losing them means really going back to the drawing board, which would be disappointing.

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To me, holding onto the current year's recruiting class doesn't seem like a very high priority for hiring a new coach. Isn't that often the rationale for promoting an assistant from within, or keeping an interim head coach? It works for about one year.

That said, the new guy should be compelling enough that most recruits are going to want to reaffirm their commitment.

Big C_Cal;842824425 said:

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To me, holding onto the current year's recruiting class doesn't seem like a very high priority for hiring a new coach. Isn't that often the rationale for promoting an assistant from within, or keeping an interim head coach? It works for about one year.

That said, the new guy should be compelling enough that most recruits are going to want to reaffirm their commitment.

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You just contradicted yourself. If it's not a high priority, why does it matter whether the new guy is compelling enough that most recruits are going to want to reaffirm their commitment. I think it's important because it appears to me to be a good enough class to use as a building block, along with Moore and Lee. The only way it's not important is if you think Harris-Dyson and Baker are no good, which I don't think is the case. I hope the coach is compelling enough to retain them, because if he doesn't, and we basically play next year with Lee, the existing roster, and a bunch of walk-ons, and the two main recruits have good years elsewhere, the you-know-what is going to hit the fan.

Yep. Bennett was probably the safest choice, and now he's out. A failing retread would be a problem, as would a Cuonzo-like path of three years of middling success, followed by a departure to greener pastures. It's not an easy choice, IMHO.

tsubamoto2001;842824327 said:

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MW is apparently starting to look at fired coaches. Not a good sign.

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He should be looking at good mid-major programs. There are more good mid-major coaches out there besides Musselman and Randy Bennett.

Mark Gottfried would be a good pick..

Can anyone explain why a coach has not been hired yet?

CalEnviroLaw;842824527 said:

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Can anyone explain why a coach has not been hired yet?

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Who knows. I will offer one speculative idea. Lets assume that some donors really are pushing Pasternack. We know they were 3 years ago. It would be "good AD" to wait to try to see what happens with zona and give him an interview. Hell, could be done Friday. That way you can assure said donors you gave the guy a hearing...or see if he really is the cats meow.

R.Hobbs;842824468 said:

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Mark Gottlieb would be a good pick

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Well, if he is interested, definitely a consideration over Kicker Joe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gottfried

socaltownie;842824530 said:

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Who knows. I will offer one speculative idea. Lets assume that some donors really are pushing Pasternack. We know they were 3 years ago. It would be "good AD" to wait to try to see what happens with zona and give him an interview. Hell, could be done Friday. That way you can assure said donors you gave the guy a hearing...or see if he really is the cats meow.

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+1. (I hope you are right.)

socaltownie;842824530 said:

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Who knows. I will offer one speculative idea. Lets assume that some donors really are pushing Pasternack. We know they were 3 years ago. It would be "good AD" to wait to try to see what happens with zona and give him an interview. Hell, could be done Friday. That way you can assure said donors you gave the guy a hearing...or see if he really is the cats meow.

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Is donor support even necessary to hire Pasternack? Given what he makes now and the lack of any competition or interest from other programs, even mid-majors, he'd command a salary that is likely among the bottom 5-10% of P5 schools and probably the lowest in the PAC-12 (maybe competing with Tinkle). Add in the $1M+ we're getting from Missouri, we can probably just pay him out of petty cash.

lol we almost got Chris Mack...

socaliganbear;842824538 said:

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lol we almost got Chris Mack...

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Thats right. He was ready to do it and then backed out and we went with Martin. What might have been.....

TexWoodyGiants;842824531 said:

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Well, if he is interested, definitely a consideration over Kicker Joe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gottfried

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As an honorary board of trustees member of the Athletes in Action sports ministry, would he consider moving to this God-Forsaken place?

TheSouseFamily;842824535 said:

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Is donor support even necessary to hire Pasternack? Given what he makes now and the lack of any competition or interest from other programs, even mid-majors, he'd command a salary that is likely among the bottom 5-10% of P5 schools and probably the lowest in the PAC-12 (maybe competing with Tinkle). Add in the $1M+ we're getting from Missouri, we can probably just pay him out of petty cash.

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The "donor support" is meaningful because his supporter(s) is(are) purported to be favorably inclined to bring the practice facility in.

Jeff82;842824431 said:

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You just contradicted yourself. If it's not a high priority, why does it matter whether the new guy is compelling enough that most recruits are going to want to reaffirm their commitment. I think it's important because it appears to me to be a good enough class to use as a building block, along with Moore and Lee. The only way it's not important is if you think Harris-Dyson and Baker are no good, which I don't think is the case. I hope the coach is compelling enough to retain them, because if he doesn't, and we basically play next year with Lee, the existing roster, and a bunch of walk-ons, and the two main recruits have good years elsewhere, the you-know-what is going to hit the fan.

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If a guy with no connections to the existing incoming class is compelling enough to retain them, it is an indicator that he will recruit well in coming years.

Of course we want to keep this class. I'm just saying we shouldn't go with X because he has connections to this one class, versus Y who might be better, long-term.

Dan Majerle, GCu coach.

It may be time to put an ad on craigslist for this.

bearsandgiants;842824669 said:

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It may be time to put an ad on craigslist for this.

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Hahaha. Let's post one anyway and see what kind of response we get.

Like Jeff Eisenberg (Yahoo) said, what happened with Russ Turner? Mike DeCourcey (TSN) even brought up Travis DeCuire. What the heck went down?