jsherr said:

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I think Kyle Smith at USF is a pretty solid coach. Was at Columbia before USF and got them above 500 which is no small feat even in the Ivy.

Having him already be in the Bay is also good.

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I would love to have him but he might be better off in the long run establishing a fiefdom like his former boss.

Yogi Bear said:

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Big C said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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Strykur said:

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Didn't see this being discussed, so who you got other than the Kidd?

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There's so many good coaches in this country. All depends on what we're willing to pay to determine what the potential pool would be. Which is why hiring Kidd (who is not a good coach) is a silly idea.

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What is the Pac 12 average these days? It's not "realistic" (referencing thread title) to think we're going to pay more than that. And probably something less. Who's gonna want to come here for 1.5-2 million a year? Well, I guess that's part of the AD's job, to attract qualified candidates.

Kyle Smith or Travis Decuire?

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I'm honestly a little surprised at how little college basketball coaches make compared to college football coaches. Anyway....

Alford 2.6
Hurley 2.1
Miller 4.05
Boyle 1.4 (only 400K separates him and Wyking SMH)
Larry K. (not spelling that) 3.4
Hopkins 1.8
Kent 1.4
Altman 2.7
Tinkle 1.96
The Guy MW Hired 1.14

Average 2.25

I'll be very surprised if we clear 1.4 on the new guy.

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People don't get that the basketball financial model (with certain schools being exceptions) is not even close to football.

Alkiadt said:

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R90 said:

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Irvine's top 6 scorers include 1 freshman and 5 juniors. I think Turner will want to stay with those guys through one more season. We might want to start tampering with him now, with an eye toward bringing him on for 2020-21. That's when our roster will be most attractive to an incoming coach.

Irvine is very strong in two of our weakest areas:
Opponent's shooting %: #7 38.2% (Cal is #351 50.2%)
Rebounds per game: #22 39.92 (Cal is #349 28.33)


Montana's top 4 players in MPG, and 3 of the top 4 in PPG are seniors. DeCuire might be more inclined to jump ship after this season.

Their top player is Ahmaad Rorie, remember him? Chose Oregon over Cal, so we got Tyrone Wallace instead. Rorie then got kicked out of Oregon as part of some gang rape thing, if I recall correctly.


I'd rather wait a year for Turner, giving Wyking a chance to prove his process is working.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Turner_(basketball)

Mike Montgomery Coaching Tree

• Barry Collier (Nebraska, Butler)
• Travis DeCuire (Montana)
• Trent Johnson (TCU, LSU, Stanford, Nevada)
• Ernie Kent (Washington State, Oregon, Saint Mary's)
• Larry Krystkowiak (Utah, Milwaukee Bucks, Montana)
• Matt Lottich (Valparaiso)
• Stew Morrill (Utah State, Colorado State, Montana)
• Keith Smart (Sacramento Kings, Golden State Warriors)
• Terry Stotts (Portland Trail Blazers, Milwaukee Bucks)
• Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion, Montana)
• Wayne Tinkle (Oregon State, Montana)
• Russell Turner (UC Irvine)
• Willis Wilson (Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Rice)

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You recalled incorrectly; That was Dominic Artis from Salesian in Richmond, not Ahmad Rorie.
Rorie decommitted from Cal after Travis didn't get the Cal job. He left Oregon after his freshman year to play for Travis at Montana as Oregon had Tyler Dorsey coming in, and Dylan Ennis also.

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Getting Wallace when Rorie decommited is also incorrect. Wallace had already played a season or two under Monty. Martin let Rorie go thinking he already had a couple of other top point guards in mind. When he struck out on both he offered Chauca.

It seems to me that there was a family connection with Rorie to DeCuire (god father or something like that)...

socaltownie said:

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oskidunker said:

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Talking basketball, not football,

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I was not tuned in (nor was the interweb so active to provide "chatter" during the Braun era) but both Martin and Monty were unicorn kinds of hires - Monty because who knew he still wanted to coach (but only in the Bay Area) and Martin because of the outright racism of the vols fan base.

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Yes, we got Martin from Tennessee in April, just weeks after he took the Vols to the Sweet 16. It was a no brainer hire.

Cuonzo making bank for 3 out of 8. Tenn. is 11 and 0

bearister said:

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Cuonzo making bank for 3 out of 8. Tenn. is 11 and 0

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Tennessee collapsed upon his departure. After an awkward short stint, they hired Barnes and are now killing it. I'd be happy to repeat history.

Turner's wife has a very good position as a teaching physician at UCLA hospital (she'd previously been at Irvine). So unless there's an opening at UCSF or Stanfurd or someone can create one, while I have no inside intel on the workings of the Turner household, it's quite possible someone with this type of position wouldn't just give it up for her husband (regardless of the $$$ involved). I'm thinking he's good at Irvine until/unless something bigger in So. Cal comes up.

TheDudeSF said:

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Turner's wife has a very good position as a teaching physician at UCLA hospital (she'd previously been at Irvine). So unless there's an opening at UCSF or Stanfurd or someone can create one, while I have no inside intel on the workings of the Turner household, it's quite possible someone with this type of position wouldn't just give it up for her husband (regardless of the $$$ involved). I'm thinking he's good at Irvine until/unless something bigger in So. Cal comes up.

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Which isn't going to happen. UCLA would NEVER get alumni support for that move. Probably not post Ernfeld USC either (but it is a possibility). PERHAPS SDSU with her getting a gig at UCSD Medical. So essentially your argument is that he isn't moving.

Fine. Montana was something like -14 today. Next man up.

socaltownie said:

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TheDudeSF said:

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Turner's wife has a very good position as a teaching physician at UCLA hospital (she'd previously been at Irvine). So unless there's an opening at UCSF or Stanfurd or someone can create one, while I have no inside intel on the workings of the Turner household, it's quite possible someone with this type of position wouldn't just give it up for her husband (regardless of the $$$ involved). I'm thinking he's good at Irvine until/unless something bigger in So. Cal comes up.

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Which isn't going to happen. UCLA would NEVER get alumni support for that move. Probably not post Ernfeld USC either (but it is a possibility). PERHAPS SDSU with her getting a gig at UCSD Medical. So essentially your argument is that he isn't moving.

Fine. Montana was something like -14 today. Next man up.

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Yeah, UCLA would never hire him straight out of the big west. I assume USC would be his dream position. I don't know what I was arguing other than the Liz Situation would probably have to be dealt with as part of any move for him outside of So. Cal.

Jeff82 said:

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The sad thing about all of these choices is that they're basically the same types of options we had when Monty retired. Essentially the entire Martin/Jones era will probably end up being a giant diversion which left the program in worse or at least in no better shape than it was when Monty retired. In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

By the way Martin is 12-13 at Missouri, 3-10 in the SEC. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, Basically, he's spent most of his career swooping into transitional situations (Tennessee scandals, Monty's retirement, Missouri's racial issues) and getting pay rates his performance mostly doesn't justify. Good for him, bad for the programs invoived.

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I agree but my goodness hindsight is 20/20. I really thought Martin was a homerun. Now we know better. The one thing I don't blame Dirks for is pulling the trigger with CM. At the time it SEEMED like a no brainer (see caveat)

Caveat: I think a lot of us have a blindspot for California (by that I mean the state). Natives (like us) probably can't imagine living anywhere else or at least believe it is largely a slice of paradise. Even with horrible 580 traffic, the place is great and golden and special - with no comparison to a day in August spent at Point Reyes or surfing the sweet break at Swamis.

But for a lot of folks CA is just "different" and strange. I take CM at his word that he feels more at home at Mizzu or Purdue or other places in the midwest. It may be something that we should take seriously. Cause it really is different out here.

socaltownie said:

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Jeff82 said:

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The sad thing about all of these choices is that they're basically the same types of options we had when Monty retired. Essentially the entire Martin/Jones era will probably end up being a giant diversion which left the program in worse or at least in no better shape than it was when Monty retired. In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

By the way Martin is 12-13 at Missouri, 3-10 in the SEC. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, Basically, he's spent most of his career swooping into transitional situations (Tennessee scandals, Monty's retirement, Missouri's racial issues) and getting pay rates his performance mostly doesn't justify. Good for him, bad for the programs invoived.

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I agree but my goodness hindsight is 20/20. I really thought Martin was a homerun. Now we know better. The one thing I don't blame Dirks for is pulling the trigger with CM. At the time it SEEMED like a no brainer (see caveat)

Caveat: I think a lot of us have a blindspot for California (by that I mean the state). Natives (like us) probably can't imagine living anywhere else or at least believe it is largely a slice of paradise. Even with horrible 580 traffic, the place is great and golden and special - with no comparison to a day in August spent at Point Reyes or surfing the sweet break at Swamis.

But for a lot of folks CA is just "different" and strange. I take CM at his word that he feels more at home at Mizzu or Purdue or other places in the midwest. It may be something that we should take seriously. Cause it really is different out here.

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Regardless of the results, I agree that the decision to hire CM was sound (even if the process faulty). On the other hand, the process with CM's replacement was probably never going to work (even though it is easy to criticize it). Go back two years and a potential coach and his/her agent would see:

• A Chancellor on his way out, who had done little to nothing to address antagonism between the various faculty voices and the athletic department.
• An Athletic Director, who promoted himself from interim with no athletic admin experience, who was also on his way out.
• An Athletic department that was struggling with financial structure and had a reputation of not being fully invested in MBB (practice facility, marketing, academic standards).
• A roster and rebuild that was going to require a major effort, but had little support from fans, media, administration or donors.

Not trying to defend the hire. I always thought it was Williams being lazy and just kicking the can down the road for a couple of seasons.

It woll be very interesting to see who Knowlton picks, if he decides to make a change. Just hope he doesnt waste money on a search firm.

Jeff82 said:

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In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

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In retrospect, yes. At the time though, I'm glad we set our sights higher than an assistant from our program who had never been a head coach anywhere. That's how we ended up with Wyking Jones. It just didn't work out with the guy we picked, but it was good that we set our sights that high.

oskidunker said:

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It woll be very interesting to see who Knowlton picks, if he decides to make a change. Just hope he doesnt waste money on a search firm.

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It's Cal. We cry poor on any number of issues and beg for money to pay for coaches, but we have no issue blowing money on a search firm without having the money earmarked to pay for it.

You got it

Yogi Bear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

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In retrospect, yes. At the time though, I'm glad we set our sights higher than an assistant from our program who had never been a head coach anywhere. That's how we ended up with Wyking Jones. It just didn't work out with the guy we picked, but it was good that we set our sights that high.

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This is a good point. In retrospect, I wonder if Williams wished we had gone with Travis instead of CM. Since the rest of the staff seemed to be guys that followed Martin, Jones was the only guy left. I wonder how much this played into Williams thought process to hire Jones.

Yogi Bear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

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In retrospect, yes. At the time though, I'm glad we set our sights higher than an assistant from our program who had never been a head coach anywhere. That's how we ended up with Wyking Jones. It just didn't work out with the guy we picked, but it was good that we set our sights that high.

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I don't think the idea of promoting an assistant to his first head coaching job is necessarily a bad idea. It is about context -- the state of the program and the individual in question. Obviously in this instance it wasn't a good choice -- both in terms of the state of the program post-Cuonzo and Wyking as a potential head guy. But there are program models and assistant coach profiles where continuity makes a lot more sense than blowing everything up and redefining the program.

smokeyrover said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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In retrospect, we should have taken his advice and elevated Travis, who it appears was fairly ready, based on his performance at Montana.

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In retrospect, yes. At the time though, I'm glad we set our sights higher than an assistant from our program who had never been a head coach anywhere. That's how we ended up with Wyking Jones. It just didn't work out with the guy we picked, but it was good that we set our sights that high.

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I don't think the idea of promoting an assistant to his first head coaching job is necessarily a bad idea. It is about context -- the state of the program and the individual in question. Obviously in this instance it wasn't a good choice -- both in terms of the state of the program post-Cuonzo and Wyking as a potential head guy. But there are program models and assistant coach profiles where continuity makes a lot more sense than blowing everything up and redefining the program.

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I think unless there is something very special about the assistant, he should be getting his first job at a mid-major where most guys prove themselves. That's what DeCuire and Russell Turner and Joe The Kicker did.

So now what?

Strykur said:

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So now who?

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fify

I know that Travis DeCuire, Russell Turner, Jason Kidd and some other candidates with West Coast ties are the favorites, and all are interesting candidates, but I do hope we take a national view and look at guys like Nate Oats at Buffalo, Matt McMahon at Murray State, John Brannen at Northern Kentucky. It is really important to find the right guy, and I hope we don't limit ourselves in the search.

I don't mind taking a national view, either. But geography and lifestyle (urban vs suburban vs rural) are all key factors in "fit".

LOUMFSG2 said:

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I know that Travis DeCuire, Russell Turner, Jason Kidd and some other candidates with West Coast ties are the favorites, and all are interesting candidates, but I do hope we take a national view and look at guys like Nate Oats at Buffalo, Matt McMahon at Murray State, John Brannen at Northern Kentucky. It is really important to find the right guy, and I hope we don't limit ourselves in the search.

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Craig Smith at Utah State?

Eran Ganot is a hellava coach. He knows the Bay Area and has Monty jr onboard

tsubamoto2001 said:

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I don't mind taking a national view, either. But geography and lifestyle (urban vs suburban vs rural) are all key factors in "fit".

LOUMFSG2 said:

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I know that Travis DeCuire, Russell Turner, Jason Kidd and some other candidates with West Coast ties are the favorites, and all are interesting candidates, but I do hope we take a national view and look at guys like Nate Oats at Buffalo, Matt McMahon at Murray State, John Brannen at Northern Kentucky. It is really important to find the right guy, and I hope we don't limit ourselves in the search.

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Plus West Coast recruiting ties.