SFCityBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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What is overly sensitive for one person may be overly offensive for another. Calling me a hypocrite for Civil is like the pot calling the kettle black. Everything he writes to me or about me is just one big never ending personal ad hominem attack. Somewhere, way back, I must have offended him personally. If I do so, I usually apologize. I did with him, but it did not matter. He persists. I ignore, as much as I can.

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This post is just another glaring example of your disingenuousness. Back-to-back you stated:

A) "Somewhere, way back, I must have offended him personally." - indicating if you have offended me you do not recall it.

and,

B) "If I do so, I usually apologize. I did with him, but it did not matter." - indicating you do recall offending me in the past.

Maybe cal8285 is correct after all. Maybe you aren't just being disingenuous but actually don't realize how you continuously contradict yourself due to a departure to reality. Maybe you are actually senile. If that is the case, I sincerely apologize.

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In answer to your post, I honestly do not remember how I offended you because you never specifically told me what it was.

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Many, many time I have told you what it is I find offensive about you. Those are the things you keep referring to as name calling and personal attacks.

Quote:

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Long ago, you wrote complicated argumentative posts in response to my posts, which quite frankly, I could not follow, in data or in logic. I guess I was not smart enough to understand them.

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Yes, I remember that. It centered on you having an issue with me referring to Tajuan Porter as being a volume shooter (AKA chucker). You would write in condescending terms while cherry-picking stats, and I would counter with complicated things like Porter was the all-time conference leader in 3-point attempts.

Quote:

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When I did not understand, and did not want to respond any more, you began the personal attacks, the name-calling.

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I responded to your posts deliberately mimicking the same condescending tone and words you were throwing at me. I even told you as much. It apparently drove you mad because you refused to see it. This hypocrisy has been a recurring theme with you throughout your time here, for example when you rip on posters for criticizing players, while you have no problem with doing it yourself, or when you whine about posters putting words in your mouth while you do the same to other posters.

Quote:

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I tried to get you to stop this line of attack by making a general apology, just to try and be kind to you and show I meant you no harm. I apologized for offending you, not knowing how or when I had offended you, and I still don't know.

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I do not believe this apology ever took place, but for argument's sake let's say it did. Who in their right mind would accept such an apology? I'm guessing you are not married. Can you imagine making that kind of apology to your wife? "Gee Honey, I have no idea what I did. I am kind to you and you are full of hate, but I apologize anyway."

Quote:

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If you spent anywhere near as much time thinking about Cal basketball and how to make it better as you do on meticulously taking apart words I have written or stats I have found, to find reasons to denigrate me as a person and call me derogatory names for all to see, you might have more interesting things to say and be more of an informative read than you are. You greatly limit yourself as a person and a believable Cal fan when you slip off into these personal attacks, filled with hate.

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You have no idea how much time I spend thinking about Cal basketball. I'll agree that I don't spend much time posting to strangers how I think I can make it better because I am not that presumptuous; however, I can tell you this: I don't spend ten days trying to figure out how to respond to a post I didn't like.

And I don't mind if you want to call me a hater and give me advice about things you know nothing about. You are a stranger on an anonymous sports board with opinions I have little in common with. I consider the source.

Quote:

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When I arrived here on this board, you already had many thousands of posts. You must have had a foil before me, because today you have very little to say about Cal sports other than to express hatred for another Cal fan. Who was my predecessor?

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Nope, no predecessor. I've never come across anyone as consistently disingenuous as you.

Quote:

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Your intent is obviously to be hurtful to me yada yada yada...

Just think that if you stopped hating me, or stopped reading what I write, you could have a life. Continuous unmitigated hate for another person is no way to spend your time on earth, is it? Lighten up. You'll feel better.

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I really read very little of what you write - mostly just when you respond to me either directly or indirectly. One thing that could help you out would be to go back to supposedly putting me on IGNORE. At least then you wouldn't need to get worked up for 10 days feeling obligated to respond.

Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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What is overly sensitive for one person may be overly offensive for another. Calling me a hypocrite for Civil is like the pot calling the kettle black. Everything he writes to me or about me is just one big never ending personal ad hominem attack. Somewhere, way back, I must have offended him personally. If I do so, I usually apologize. I did with him, but it did not matter. He persists. I ignore, as much as I can.

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This post is just another glaring example of your disingenuousness. Back-to-back you stated:

A) "Somewhere, way back, I must have offended him personally." - indicating if you have offended me you do not recall it.

and,

B) "If I do so, I usually apologize. I did with him, but it did not matter." - indicating you do recall offending me in the past.

Maybe cal8285 is correct after all. Maybe you aren't just being disingenuous but actually don't realize how you continuously contradict yourself due to a departure to reality. Maybe you are actually senile. If that is the case, I sincerely apologize.

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In answer to your post, I honestly do not remember how I offended you because you never specifically told me what it was.

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Many, many time I have told you what it is I find offensive about you. Those are the things you keep referring to as name calling and personal attacks.

Quote:

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Long ago, you wrote complicated argumentative posts in response to my posts, which quite frankly, I could not follow, in data or in logic. I guess I was not smart enough to understand them.

---

Yes, I remember that. It centered on you having an issue with me referring to Tajuan Porter as being a volume shooter (AKA chucker). You would write in condescending terms while cherry-picking stats, and I would counter with complicated things like Porter was the all-time conference leader in 3-point attempts.

Quote:

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When I did not understand, and did not want to respond any more, you began the personal attacks, the name-calling.

---

I responded to your posts deliberately mimicking the same condescending tone and words you were throwing at me. I even told you as much. It apparently drove you mad because you refused to see it. This hypocrisy has been a recurring theme with you throughout your time here, for example when you rip on posters for criticizing players, while you have no problem with doing it yourself, or when you whine about posters putting words in your mouth while you do the same to other posters.

Quote:

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I tried to get you to stop this line of attack by making a general apology, just to try and be kind to you and show I meant you no harm. I apologized for offending you, not knowing how or when I had offended you, and I still don't know.

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I do not believe this apology ever took place, but for argument's sake let's say it did. Who in their right mind would accept such an apology? I'm guessing you are not married. Can you imagine making that kind of apology to your wife? "Gee Honey, I have no idea what I did. I am kind to you and you are full of hate, but I apologize anyway."

Quote:

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If you spent anywhere near as much time thinking about Cal basketball and how to make it better as you do on meticulously taking apart words I have written or stats I have found, to find reasons to denigrate me as a person and call me derogatory names for all to see, you might have more interesting things to say and be more of an informative read than you are. You greatly limit yourself as a person and a believable Cal fan when you slip off into these personal attacks, filled with hate.

---

You have no idea how much time I spend thinking about Cal basketball. I'll agree that I don't spend much time posting to strangers how I think I can make it better because I am not that presumptuous; however, I can tell you this: I don't spend ten days trying to figure out how to respond to a post I didn't like.

And I don't mind if you want to call me a hater and give me advice about things you know nothing about. You are a stranger on an anonymous sports board with opinions I have little in common with. I consider the source.

Quote:

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When I arrived here on this board, you already had many thousands of posts. You must have had a foil before me, because today you have very little to say about Cal sports other than to express hatred for another Cal fan. Who was my predecessor?

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Nope, no predecessor. I've never come across anyone as consistently disingenuous as you.

Quote:

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Your intent is obviously to be hurtful to me yada yada yada...

Just think that if you stopped hating me, or stopped reading what I write, you could have a life. Continuous unmitigated hate for another person is no way to spend your time on earth, is it? Lighten up. You'll feel better.

---

I really read very little of what you write - mostly just when you respond to me either directly or indirectly. One thing that could help you out would be to go back to supposedly putting me on IGNORE. At least then you wouldn't need to get worked up for 10 days feeling obligated to respond.

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Let me help you old fogies out because that's one heck of a long winded way of saying "GTFO". Get a boxing ring or PM one another.

I agree. These long winded personally slanted rants take away from this board, which is making me wonder more and more why I even bother visiting.

There must be better use of your time. Agree. Mods do nothing but let this continue.

You guys are also welcome to put me on ignore.

oskidunker said:

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There must be better use of your time. Agree. Mods do nothing but let this continue.

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I didn't read the first response, but I agree with the subsequent responses from others, especially the one suggesting using PMs for this crap. If there is an urge to insult someone's character or person, why air out all the dirty laundry in public? I've suggested using PMs, and now so did another poster. The problem for some of us is that the insults have been done in public, and for some who are more thin-skinned than others, like me, there is an impulse to respond in kind in public. With electronic media, the impulse is uncontrollable. If anyone wants to attack me personally, use PMs please. Have at it. I won't guarantee I'll read it or that I'll reply, but at least you will get your thoughts off your chest. I try using the ignore list, but it is imperfect in that earlier posts in any thread are repeated, even if the poster is on the reader's ignore list.

I began posting here after reading the forum for a couple of years, because I noticed a number of younger posters who had no clue of what the Pete Newell era was, and what the entire Bay Area basketball scene was in those days, and I thought it would be informative for young posters, and bring back memories for older posters. My posts were enjoyed by many and ridiculed by others for being irrelevant. I admit I knew less about modern basketball and nothing about the modern NBA, and in that sense I learned a lot from others posting here. I did find that many posters were very emotional fans, and they had Cal coaches and Cal players they loved and ones they had contempt for, and no two fans seemed to have the same list of likes and dislikes. If you write something critical about a player or a coach that some fan loves, you will offend that fan. And vice versa, if you write some praise for a player or a coach that some fan has contempt for, you can offend that fan as well. Posting here is a veritable minefield. And maybe it is that way because that after so many years of early success, Cal has been on the losing end of most games in football and basketball. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. We all have our own ideas about how Cal could do better, but even those ideas will offend others who have different ideas. It is a far cry from my youth when Cal fans banded together and rooted for our teams and players, even the ones who sat at the far end of the bench. It is easy to do that as a fan when your team is winning. When the team is losing, we begin to fight with each other. We eat our own, almost. Winning games in football or basketball will fix this as long as we keep it up, which of course is not likely. Few teams are good year after year.

I have been insulted here by almost professional insulters. They write things that I doubt they would say to me in person, or I would knock their block off. Or try to. The boxing ring has now been suggested. I'll decline that one. I'm too old and frail for that, and I'd like to live another day to see some Mark Fox-coached Cal wins. My girlfriend could probably knock me over with a feather. (She's 20 years younger) So just PM me with your personal comments, and I will do the same. Let's see how that works.

Civil Bear said:

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You guys are also welcome to put me on ignore.

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Done.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Slug: I'm optimistic that when you start shaving you will realize that any community that tolerates crime is not exactly the rose garden you envision Berkeley to be. Cal & berkeley used to be rose gardens. During the last 50 years, many of the roses have withered and died on the vine. I was there....so I know the difference. san francisco is another city that used to be a rose garden. it is well on its way to becoming a third world country. Once again, I was there. So..I know the difference.

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I was too. I've been a lot of other places too. I've never found anywhere perfect. I like Berkeley. SF is too full of techies but it isn't a third world city. Maybe you ought to get out more if you think it is. And as for the condescending remarks about a guy who's been around this board for longer than you, I'd just say maybe you should grow up.

SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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There must be better use of your time. Agree. Mods do nothing but let this continue.

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I didn't read the first response, but I agree with the subsequent responses from others, especially the one suggesting using PMs for this crap. If there is an urge to insult someone's character or person, why air out all the dirty laundry in public? I've suggested using PMs, and now so did another poster. The problem for some of us is that the insults have been done in public, and for some who are more thin-skinned than others, like me, there is an impulse to respond in kind in public. With electronic media, the impulse is uncontrollable. If anyone wants to attack me personally, use PMs please. Have at it. I won't guarantee I'll read it or that I'll reply, but at least you will get your thoughts off your chest. I try using the ignore list, but it is imperfect in that earlier posts in any thread are repeated, even if the poster is on the reader's ignore list.

I began posting here after reading the forum for a couple of years, because I noticed a number of younger posters who had no clue of what the Pete Newell era was, and what the entire Bay Area basketball scene was in those days, and I thought it would be informative for young posters, and bring back memories for older posters. My posts were enjoyed by many and ridiculed by others for being irrelevant. I admit I knew less about modern basketball and nothing about the modern NBA, and in that sense I learned a lot from others posting here. I did find that many posters were very emotional fans, and they had Cal coaches and Cal players they loved and ones they had contempt for, and no two fans seemed to have the same list of likes and dislikes. If you write something critical about a player or a coach that some fan loves, you will offend that fan. And vice versa, if you write some praise for a player or a coach that some fan has contempt for, you can offend that fan as well. Posting here is a veritable minefield. And maybe it is that way because that after so many years of early success, Cal has been on the losing end of most games in football and basketball. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. We all have our own ideas about how Cal could do better, but even those ideas will offend others who have different ideas. It is a far cry from my youth when Cal fans banded together and rooted for our teams and players, even the ones who sat at the far end of the bench. It is easy to do that as a fan when your team is winning. When the team is losing, we begin to fight with each other. We eat our own, almost. Winning games in football or basketball will fix this as long as we keep it up, which of course is not likely. Few teams are good year after year.

I have been insulted here by almost professional insulters. They write things that I doubt they would say to me in person, or I would knock their block off. Or try to. The boxing ring has now been suggested. I'll decline that one. I'm too old and frail for that, and I'd like to live another day to see some Mark Fox-coached Cal wins. My girlfriend could probably knock me over with a feather. (She's 20 years younger) So just PM me with your personal comments, and I will do the same. Let's see how that works.

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SFCity - I do not want to get in an argument with you. You keep asking why people have an issue with you and this exchange is just so on point. I am going to ask you to read the exchange and have a little self awareness.

This exchange started because two posters said Bak Bak's shooting was not what was demonstrated in his highlight reel. You responded with:

Quote:

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You guys just love to rag on a Cal player who didn't live up to your expectations or dreams. I wish you all would cut it out. Maybe you saw him as a freshman, slow, couldn't jump, no basketball skills...

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They posted something critical about a player you appreciate and you were offended. How are you not part of the minefield you decry? You loved Ricky Kreklow and consistently posted positives about him and frequently compared other, more productive players unfavorably. You did not like Ty Wallace's game and you were consistently critical his whole career. I doubt there was another poster that criticized him half as much as you did. You did not like Jaylen Brown's game. You were consistently critical of him. And all of that is fine with me. I may disagree, but this board is about discussing basketball. The issue is you make it a moral/ethical question when others do the same thing to someone you are fond of. You criticize Wallace, Brown, and Cuonzo (and you criticized them very frequently) and that is you speaking your mind. Civil and Yogi criticize Bak Bak, and you jump on them. Others criticize Jones and you jump on them. Do you not see that you are criticizing people for doing the exact same thing you have done? In this thread you have criticized people for creating a minefield for being offended if someone criticizes a player a few posts after you expressed offense at two people criticizing a player.

That is the issue. Whether it is "personal insults" "criticizing players and coaches" "taking offense easily" or "putting words in somebody's mouth", you are almost always a major offender. You do not hold yourself to the standard you demand of others.

I know part of you is going to think I just hated you from the beginning. I have no reason to do so. This is what I didn't like. I have hope that you can look at this thread and see there is at least some truth in what I have said. I submit to you that if you had read the commentary on Bak Bak's highlights and asked yourself honestly "have I ever been this critical of Ty Wallace or any other player?" you would have changed the tone of your post to talk only about what you appreciated about Bak Bak rather than to tell them to cut it out and chastise them. That might have lead to an honest discussion that would have centered on Bak Bak rather than a discussion about poster personalities.