calumnus said:

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My biggest takeaway from this thread is that the site mods apparently don't frequent the basketball board, because if this was on Growls.....

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This thread was originally posted on the Women's Basketball Board but the team of 25 dedicated Moderators of that board discovered its inappropriateness within minutes and then transferred it to this board instead of the OT Board so that the OP could continue participating in the thread.

calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:


I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

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You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

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Look, I fully understood what you were trying to say, which is why I spent time explaining the death rate of newly infected should actually improve. I get that that using the death rate to date is not perfect, but it is the best indicator of the survival rate we have, which is an indicator of the quality of medical care. The death rate will be more accurate when this crisis is over. Perhaps we would be better served to revisit it then.

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I do agree that there are issues with the data, we are not testing enough and many people in the US, especially now in the rural South, are dying at home undiagnosed. Logic is that the virus is the virus since we have no cure (and the US has higher rates of co-morbidities) but I hope you are right and our underlying death rate really is multiples below that of many of the medically advanced countries that have already contained the virus. I personally do not need to lose any more friends or family to this and I am sure you do not either.

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This is obviously far from over, but a month after the reported spike in cases nationwide the US death rate has managed to decrease from 3.5% to 3.1%. As mentioned, this is likely due to the age of the population now getting infected and our better ability/preparedness to fight it. Canada, with their lack of reported cases, has dropped to 7.2%:

Current Johns Hopkins Mortality Analysis

Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:


I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

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Quote:

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Quote:
You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

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Look, I fully understood what you were trying to say, which is why I spent time explaining the death rate of newly infected should actually improve. I get that that using the death rate to date is not perfect, but it is the best indicator of the survival rate we have, which is an indicator of the quality of medical care. The death rate will be more accurate when this crisis is over. Perhaps we would be better served to revisit it then.

---

I do agree that there are issues with the data, we are not testing enough and many people in the US, especially now in the rural South, are dying at home undiagnosed. Logic is that the virus is the virus since we have no cure (and the US has higher rates of co-morbidities) but I hope you are right and our underlying death rate really is multiples below that of many of the medically advanced countries that have already contained the virus. I personally do not need to lose any more friends or family to this and I am sure you do not either.

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This is obviously far from over, but a month after the reported spike in cases nationwide the US death rate has managed to decrease from 3.5% to 3.1%. As mentioned, this is likely due to the age of the population now getting infected and our better ability/preparedness to fight it. Canada, with their lack of reported cases, has dropped to 7.2%:

Current Johns Hopkins Mortality Analysis

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Another 2 months later and the US mortality rate has dropped to 2.6%. Canada, to its credit, has dropped its mortality rate to 4.6%, so you are now less than twice as likely to die if Contracting covid 19 up north.

helltopay1 said:

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Here's a simple idea..Lose the anthem before every sporting event. Everyone knows what country is holding the event. The anthem today is so divisive that it threatens to ruin if not strain relationships among owners, managers, players and fans alike. Social solidarity at sporting events in the past have given owners, coaches, players and fans alike the chance to have something in common just before the game , and, for that, we have all been grateful. Today, 50% of the participants kneel--50% stand, ---pretty soon, 50% of the fans in the stands will be kneeling while the other v50% stand. Honestly, is there anyone who thinks this is a healthy situation??"a nation divided cannot stand." divided owners, coachers, players and fans cannot stand either---When we go to work in the morning, the anthem is not played just before we sit at our desk or begin to engage in whatever work we are assigned. if and when our nation returns to some semblance of normality and acceptance, then, and only then, should we consider restoring the Anthem. Even then, if I were King, I would ban it ----just play the *************damn game!!!!!!

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All hail!

Civil Bear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:


I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

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Quote:

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Quote:
You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

---

Look, I fully understood what you were trying to say, which is why I spent time explaining the death rate of newly infected should actually improve. I get that that using the death rate to date is not perfect, but it is the best indicator of the survival rate we have, which is an indicator of the quality of medical care. The death rate will be more accurate when this crisis is over. Perhaps we would be better served to revisit it then.

---

I do agree that there are issues with the data, we are not testing enough and many people in the US, especially now in the rural South, are dying at home undiagnosed. Logic is that the virus is the virus since we have no cure (and the US has higher rates of co-morbidities) but I hope you are right and our underlying death rate really is multiples below that of many of the medically advanced countries that have already contained the virus. I personally do not need to lose any more friends or family to this and I am sure you do not either.

---

This is obviously far from over, but a month after the reported spike in cases nationwide the US death rate has managed to decrease from 3.5% to 3.1%. As mentioned, this is likely due to the age of the population now getting infected and our better ability/preparedness to fight it. Canada, with their lack of reported cases, has dropped to 7.2%:

Current Johns Hopkins Mortality Analysis

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Another 2 months later and the US mortality rate has dropped to 2.6%. Canada, to its credit, has dropped its mortality rate to 4.6%, so you are now less than twice as likely to die if Contracting covid 19 up north.

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Canada is in its second wave. They were down to 147 new cases per day in August but hit over 4,042 on October 13. Most of Canada's deaths were early. Daily deaths were down to zero several days in September but hit 34 yesterday. Deaths lag new cases by about a month so that number will likely increase.

The US is currently setting new records with 78,888 recorded new cases just yesterday. "Only" 865 Americans died yesterday but ICUs around the country are full and infected patients are being turned away from hospitals in many states. In many states if you die at home you are not tested or counted. Over 400,000 more Americans have died this year than in an average year.

calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Quote:

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calumnus said:


I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

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Quote:

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Quote:
You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

---

Look, I fully understood what you were trying to say, which is why I spent time explaining the death rate of newly infected should actually improve. I get that that using the death rate to date is not perfect, but it is the best indicator of the survival rate we have, which is an indicator of the quality of medical care. The death rate will be more accurate when this crisis is over. Perhaps we would be better served to revisit it then.

---

I do agree that there are issues with the data, we are not testing enough and many people in the US, especially now in the rural South, are dying at home undiagnosed. Logic is that the virus is the virus since we have no cure (and the US has higher rates of co-morbidities) but I hope you are right and our underlying death rate really is multiples below that of many of the medically advanced countries that have already contained the virus. I personally do not need to lose any more friends or family to this and I am sure you do not either.

---

This is obviously far from over, but a month after the reported spike in cases nationwide the US death rate has managed to decrease from 3.5% to 3.1%. As mentioned, this is likely due to the age of the population now getting infected and our better ability/preparedness to fight it. Canada, with their lack of reported cases, has dropped to 7.2%:

Current Johns Hopkins Mortality Analysis

---

Another 2 months later and the US mortality rate has dropped to 2.6%. Canada, to its credit, has dropped its mortality rate to 4.6%, so you are now less than twice as likely to die if Contracting covid 19 up north.

---

Canada is in its second wave. They were down to 147 new cases per day in August but hit over 4,042 on October 13. Most of Canada's deaths were early. Daily deaths were down to zero several days in September but hit 34 yesterday. Deaths lag new cases by about a month so that number will likely increase.

The US is currently setting new records with 78,888 recorded new cases just yesterday. "Only" 865 Americans died yesterday but ICUs around the country are full and infected patients are being turned away from hospitals in many states. In many states if you die at home you are not tested or counted. Over 400,000 more Americans have died this year than in an average year.

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In South Korea only 447 people have died this year. In Seoul, a city of 10 million, only 2 people died. The vast majority of the new cases are adjacent to US military bases.

calumnus said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Quote:

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calumnus said:


I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

---

Quote:

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Quote:
You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

---

Look, I fully understood what you were trying to say, which is why I spent time explaining the death rate of newly infected should actually improve. I get that that using the death rate to date is not perfect, but it is the best indicator of the survival rate we have, which is an indicator of the quality of medical care. The death rate will be more accurate when this crisis is over. Perhaps we would be better served to revisit it then.

---

I do agree that there are issues with the data, we are not testing enough and many people in the US, especially now in the rural South, are dying at home undiagnosed. Logic is that the virus is the virus since we have no cure (and the US has higher rates of co-morbidities) but I hope you are right and our underlying death rate really is multiples below that of many of the medically advanced countries that have already contained the virus. I personally do not need to lose any more friends or family to this and I am sure you do not either.

---

This is obviously far from over, but a month after the reported spike in cases nationwide the US death rate has managed to decrease from 3.5% to 3.1%. As mentioned, this is likely due to the age of the population now getting infected and our better ability/preparedness to fight it. Canada, with their lack of reported cases, has dropped to 7.2%:

Current Johns Hopkins Mortality Analysis

---

Another 2 months later and the US mortality rate has dropped to 2.6%. Canada, to its credit, has dropped its mortality rate to 4.6%, so you are now less than twice as likely to die if Contracting covid 19 up north.

---

Canada is in its second wave. They were down to 147 new cases per day in August but hit over 4,042 on October 13. Most of Canada's deaths were early. Daily deaths were down to zero several days in September but hit 34 yesterday. Deaths lag new cases by about a month so that number will likely increase.

The US is currently setting new records with 78,888 recorded new cases just yesterday. "Only" 865 Americans died yesterday but ICUs around the country are full and infected patients are being turned away from hospitals in many states. In many states if you die at home you are not tested or counted. Over 400,000 more Americans have died this year than in an average year.

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In South Korea only 447 people have died this year. In Seoul, a city of 10 million, only 2 people died. The vast majority of the new cases are adjacent to US military bases.

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Okay, but did you mean to reply to me? I ask because I'm not sure what it all has to do with mortality rates or US/Canada health-care.

Taiwan has a national single payer system. Since the beginning of the outbreak early this year they have had 617 cases with 7 fatalities (1.1%).

The US has now had 12.3 million cases with 260,402 fatalities (2.1%). However 1/4th of the US cases were contracted this month (November) as the virus is increasing exponentially (with Thanksgiving coming) and we do not know how they will be resolved. ICUs are overflowing in many parts of the country. Mobile morgues in El Paso and Houston (with Texas reporting among the lowest death rates in the US). Of resolved cases our death rate remains at 4.0% but could easily reach Canada's 4.2%

Canada's cases are spiking again too with a Canadian record 6,115 new cases on the 16th with a record 100 fatalities two days later, but has since tapered off a bit
The US set another world record with 187,600 new cases on the 20th with 1,956 fatalities the day before, short of the record 2,701 fatalities we hit on a single day back on May 6. It will almost certainly get worse. The vaccine cannot come soon enough.

The anthem at The Coliseum will give you goosebumps
pic.twitter.com/PhKncGzbqs

— Barstool Sports (@barstoolsports) June 9, 2021

I don't watch hockey but wasn't this something...

Best National Anthem Performance, All Time:

LUCY LAWLESS AT DETROIT RED WINGS GAME (1997)

I don't know - the anthem before the Aurora, Illinois Little League All Star game in 1982 was pretty good.

So was the one at the start of the Waukesha County Soapbox Derby in 1975.

And don't forget the anthem sung before the Roller Derby bout between Flint and Ft. Wayne on March 23, 2019 - a true classic!

If there wasn't a wardrobe malfunction, I'm not interested.

As of today

COVID Cases:
US 33,576,867
Canada 1,402,128

COVID Deaths:
US 604,852
Canada 25,931

COVID Deaths/Cases:
US 1.8%
Canada 1.8%

As predicted earlier in this thread, the underlying "death rate" from COVID is identical in the US and Canada. The death rate from COVID is not evidence that medical care in Canada is, on average, any worse than that of the US. It just costs a lot less.

I haven't read this whole thread. But the song they should play before games is Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing. It's communal, is too complicated for a singer to do much riffing on, and it tells a truer story about America, w/o once saying America.

Not interested in any back-and-forth. If you don't like the idea, simply ignore it.

No need to always do the same song. Each game could have a different song somehow related to America.

calumnus said:

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As of today

COVID Cases:
US 33,576,867
Canada 1,402,128

COVID Deaths:
US 604,852
Canada 25,931

COVID Deaths/Cases:
US 1.8%
Canada 1.8%

As predicted earlier in this thread, the underlying "death rate" from COVID is identical in the US and Canada. The death rate from COVID is not evidence that medical care in Canada is, on average, any worse than that of the US. It just costs a lot less.

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Birx: Trump Responsible for Hundreds of Thousands Dead From Virus Rolling Stone


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/birx-trump-covid-virus-1148052/

Fyght4Cal said:

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I haven't read this whole thread. But the song they should play before games is Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing. It's communal, is too complicated for a singer to do much riffing on, and it tells a truer story about America, w/o once saying America.

Not interested in any back-and-forth. If you don't like the idea, simply ignore it.

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LOL. No.

bearister said:

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calumnus said:

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As of today

COVID Cases:
US 33,576,867
Canada 1,402,128

COVID Deaths:
US 604,852
Canada 25,931

COVID Deaths/Cases:
US 1.8%
Canada 1.8%

As predicted earlier in this thread, the underlying "death rate" from COVID is identical in the US and Canada. The death rate from COVID is not evidence that medical care in Canada is, on average, any worse than that of the US. It just costs a lot less.

---

Birx: Trump Responsible for Hundreds of Thousands Dead From Virus Rolling Stone


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/birx-trump-covid-virus-1148052/

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Canada made some initial mistakes, but based on relative population sizes, if the US had handled COVID as well as Canada about 200,000 Americans would have died instead of over 600,000. Those 400,000 or so deaths were avoidable and are very much on the hands of Trump and his enablers and followers who called it a "Democratic hoax", belittled the danger ("no worse than the flu"), forced the states to compete with each other for resources and fought lockdowns and mask wearing guaranteeing there would be no coordinated response. Now the one success that Trump had: fast tracking vaccines, is being largely undermined by his base. Fortunately the rest of us can get vaccinated. I just wish it came sooner.

Yeah, let's keep talking about the virus. What a fascinating topic, and it's a topic being ignored by most mainstream media sources. It's a relief I can find honest, high-quality discussion right here at Cyberbears. Thx to all posters who just won't let this one go.

Says the poster who won't shut up about Coastal Carolina because he can't get over how funny he thinks he is.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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Yeah, let's keep talking about the virus. What a fascinating topic, and it's a topic being ignored by most mainstream media sources. It's a relief I can find honest, high-quality discussion right here at Cyberbears. Thx to all posters who just won't let this one go.

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This thread is more about 1) the National Anthem and 2) the Canadian National Health Care system versus the US system of private employer-based insurance, Medicare, emergency room triage, snake oil practitioners, prayer, bake sales, go fund me campaigns, credit cards and bankruptcy court, and whether that comparison can be measured by the death rate of those contracting COVID in each country .

AunBear89 said:

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Says the poster who won't shut up about Coastal Carolina because he can't get over how funny he thinks he is.

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Oh look, it's my trained little dog. Next time, please reply in less than 60 seconds... Five minutes is simply not quick enough for you to get a treat.

This is what I think of you and your useless posts. Woof

And your threats? They go

bearister said:

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calumnus said:

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My biggest takeaway from this thread is that the site mods apparently don't frequent the basketball board, because if this was on Growls.....

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This thread was originally posted on the Women's Basketball Board but the team of 25 dedicated Moderators of that board discovered its inappropriateness within minutes and then transferred it to this board instead of the OT Board so that the OP could continue participating in the thread.

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They thought it would die over here quicker, given the interest in men's basketball.