So we've moved from "it shouldn't have been approved" to "it shouldn't be recommended for a particular group." Okay.

Well, this is interesting. If it should only be approved for a particular group and the CDC is recommending it for virtually the entire population, what does this say about the credibility of this organization?

Getting back to your original question, why do you think that the mRNA shots should be recommended for virtually everyone? Science-based arguments only please.

Zippergate said:

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So we've moved from "it shouldn't have been approved" to "it shouldn't be recommended for a particular group." Okay.

Well, this is interesting. If it should only be approved for a particular group and the CDC is recommending it for virtually the entire population, what does this say about the credibility of this organization?

Getting back to your original question, why do you think that the mRNA shots should be recommended for virtually everyone? Science-based arguments only please.

---

Yes, they seem to be effective at preventing severe disease and severe side effects also seem extremely rare, so I think a recommendation is fine. I wouldn't favor requirements at this time.

I asked for a scientific argument. Data. So what have you got? Btw, assuming that the original vaccines were effective against the original strain, this is not a guarantee that the current booster is effective against the currently circulating strains. Since you are analogizing mRNA vaccines to flu vaccines, are you saying that these products are equivalent in all respects as to efficacy and safety? If so, what is assumption based on? Do you have evidence that repeated administration of mRNA products do not cause ADE as has always been the case with vaccines against corona viruses? Do you have evidence that multiple doses of mRNA are safe? Do you have evidence that there are no long-term issues with the mRNA vaccines? This is science. All I'm asking for is data here. That's what we're about, right?

Zippergate said:

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I asked for a scientific argument. Data. So what have you got? Btw, assuming that the original vaccines were effective against the original strain, this is not a guarantee that the current booster is effective against the currently circulating strains. Since you are analogizing mRNA vaccines to flu vaccines, are you saying that these products are equivalent in all respects as to efficacy and safety? If so, what is assumption based on? Do you have evidence that repeated administration of mRNA products do not cause ADE as has always been the case with vaccines against corona viruses? Do you have evidence that multiple doses of mRNA are safe? Do you have evidence that there are no long-term issues with the mRNA vaccines? This is science. All I'm asking for is data here. That's what we're about, right?

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Pretty heavy demands considering you still haven't answered my question of what is the best reserve currency right now, since your proclamation that it is not the USD.

Zippergate said:

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I asked for a scientific argument. Data. So what have you got? Btw, assuming that the original vaccines were effective against the original strain, this is not a guarantee that the current booster is effective against the currently circulating strains. Since you are analogizing mRNA vaccines to flu vaccines, are you saying that these products are equivalent in all respects as to efficacy and safety? If so, what is assumption based on? Do you have evidence that repeated administration of mRNA products do not cause ADE as has always been the case with vaccines against corona viruses? Do you have evidence that multiple doses of mRNA are safe? Do you have evidence that there are no long-term issues with the mRNA vaccines? This is science. All I'm asking for is data here. That's what we're about, right?

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I'm not going to answer all these questions, because I don't pretend to be a bigger expert than the CDC. You guys can continue with that.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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I asked for a scientific argument. Data. So what have you got? Btw, assuming that the original vaccines were effective against the original strain, this is not a guarantee that the current booster is effective against the currently circulating strains. Since you are analogizing mRNA vaccines to flu vaccines, are you saying that these products are equivalent in all respects as to efficacy and safety? If so, what is assumption based on? Do you have evidence that repeated administration of mRNA products do not cause ADE as has always been the case with vaccines against corona viruses? Do you have evidence that multiple doses of mRNA are safe? Do you have evidence that there are no long-term issues with the mRNA vaccines? This is science. All I'm asking for is data here. That's what we're about, right?

---

I'm not going to answer all these questions, because I don't pretend to be a bigger expert than the CDC. You guys can continue with that.

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I'm not going to pretend to be an expert either, but flu shots vary in effectiveness from year to year. Some years they predict the dominant flu strains correctly, other years not so much. I suspect it will be similar for Covid vaccinations.

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Good thing flu shots are relatively benign. I will get one soon, along with my toddlers. I don't plan on playing roulette with their health on the mrna shots unless their covid health risk dramatically increases.

So your argument is totally dependent on an appeal to authority. There was was a time when I thought that was a reasonable position as well. I think the skeptics have provided plenty of evidence here to completely dismantle that idea here in the 2020s, but hey, your body, your decision. I find it interesting, though, that THE medical authority on this issue is recommending something and only a low-teens percentage of Americans are heeding that advice (uptake of the last booster).

Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

bearister said:

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Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

---

They don't. A few of those issues, such as Ukraine, do line up with distrust of the government though. For example, I trusted the government more before they continuously lied to us (what they believe is in our best interest) about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. This was partly because of their deference to Pfizer and J&J.

bearister said:

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Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

---

Interesting observation, but oh, the irony.

Zippergate said:

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So your argument is totally dependent on an appeal to authority. There was was a time when I thought that was a reasonable position as well. I think the skeptics have provided plenty of evidence here to completely dismantle that idea here in the 2020s

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No, they haven't.

REPORT: Top COVID 'experts' including Dr. Anthony Fauci and former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins cashed in on $325 million through royalty checks from the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1690729024736088064&ved=2ahUKEwiNhdrAr6iBAxXU****HZ0lC0kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3HSfDPquDqGpDPl7VsRoOn

That's a lot of money in royalties for Fauci and Collins, impartial government servants, revered by lemmings.

bearister said:

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Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

---

There are differences between being against vaccines, being against Covid vaccines, and being against vaccine mandates. American media make no distinctions because they're propagandists.

sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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So your argument is totally dependent on an appeal to authority. There was was a time when I thought that was a reasonable position as well. I think the skeptics have provided plenty of evidence here to completely dismantle that idea here in the 2020s

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No, they haven't.

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To each his own. Thankfully, I can say that now that most of the mandates have been rescinded.
But I hope parents think carefully about what is best for their kids and not subject them to unnecessary risk.

oski003 said:

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REPORT: Top COVID 'experts' including Dr. Anthony Fauci and former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins cashed in on $325 million through royalty checks from the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1690729024736088064&ved=2ahUKEwiNhdrAr6iBAxXU****HZ0lC0kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3HSfDPquDqGpDPl7VsRoOn

That's a lot of money in royalties for Fauci and Collins, impartial government servants, revered by lemmings.

---

Revered is your word, used to smear your opponents. People who agreed with Fauci and Collins didn't revere or worship him. You make these kinds of disingenuous arguments, yet you wonder why people take issue with you. It's not just you though. BearHunger, movielover and Yogi versions 1-7,000 all use this kind of loaded and demeaning language too.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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REPORT: Top COVID 'experts' including Dr. Anthony Fauci and former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins cashed in on $325 million through royalty checks from the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1690729024736088064&ved=2ahUKEwiNhdrAr6iBAxXU****HZ0lC0kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3HSfDPquDqGpDPl7VsRoOn

That's a lot of money in royalties for Fauci and Collins, impartial government servants, revered by lemmings.

---

Revered is your word, used to smear your opponents. People who agreed with Fauci and Collins didn't revere or worship him. You make these kinds of disingenuous arguments, yet you wonder why people take issue with you.

---

Fauci was Time Man of the Year. There was even a 2021 movie made about him. I stand by what I said.

By any chance, have you bought this? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.amazon.com/Fauci-Fan-Club-gift-Women/dp/B08F63H1HX&ved=2ahUKEwjb1bfrtqiBAxWHJUQIHZRFB0AQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ak_21-FoHYpDzG4y7vYTR

It does probably stink, but it won't give you myocarditis.

And speaking of myocarditis, here is The Science, from the horse's mouth (no this is not about horse paste medecine):

Again, from @CDCgov’s OWN data:

1 million mRNA Covid shots for teens will prevent

0-1 Covid deaths

and CAUSE

100,000-200,000 severe side effects.

Yes, you read that right. pic.twitter.com/GXpgIw3DvC

— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) September 13, 2023

Vaccine mandates in colleges and schools will end up being the most criminal public health measure imposition this century.

It is a bit surprising that the Five Eyes countries have been among the most repressive and hardcore with these mandates. And it looks like the criminal lunacy has not abated in Canada for one:

This is diabolical. It has nothing to do with science, public health or medicine. Whatever it is about, it manifests complete indifference to the destruction of children and their families. It should never have happened, and must stop immediately. #Nuremberg2 is fully warranted. https://t.co/BsprjE85ms

— Bret Weinstein (@BretWeinstein) September 13, 2023

bearister said:

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Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

---

It's no coincidence!

The positions on the issues you mention are the default positions for good Americans. But then people get duped into taking the vaccine and the little mRNA 10G thingies in the vaccine go into people's brains and make them take the opposite positions.

Only the muscular Robert F Kennedy, Jr. can save America!

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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REPORT: Top COVID 'experts' including Dr. Anthony Fauci and former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins cashed in on $325 million through royalty checks from the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1690729024736088064&ved=2ahUKEwiNhdrAr6iBAxXU****HZ0lC0kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3HSfDPquDqGpDPl7VsRoOn

That's a lot of money in royalties for Fauci and Collins, impartial government servants, revered by lemmings.

---

Revered is your word, used to smear your opponents. People who agreed with Fauci and Collins didn't revere or worship him. You make these kinds of disingenuous arguments, yet you wonder why people take issue with you.

---

Fauci was Time Man of the Year. There was even a 2021 movie made about him. I stand by what I said.

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Being Time's Man of the Year doesn't mean they were worshiped or even heroic. See how Time defines it:

What does it mean to be Person of the Year?

The title goes to "the person or persons who most affected the news and our lives, for good or ill, and embodied what was important about the year, for better or for worse," as former Managing Editor Walter Isaacson wrote in the 1998 issue. That means the person is not necessarily a heroAdolf Hitler, for example, was Person of the Year in 1938, with a cover showing him playing a ghastly organ and a cover line touting, "From the unholy organist, a hymn of hate." Stalin got the nod twice, while the selection of Iran's Ayatullah Khomeini in 1979, when the magazine called him "the mystic who lit the fires of hatred." And some choices have been ambiguous; take Newt Gingrich, who was a hero to some and a menace to others.

As for the movie, there have been movies made about Jesus Christ and movies about Ted Bundy. It doesn't mean much except that the subject was noteworthy for some reason.

Quote:

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By any chance, have you bought this? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.amazon.com/Fauci-Fan-Club-gift-Women/dp/B08F63H1HX&ved=2ahUKEwjb1bfrtqiBAxWHJUQIHZRFB0AQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ak_21-FoHYpDzG4y7vYTR

---

You can find similar t-shirts for just about any public or historical figure, good or bad. Another meaningless belittling taunt from you.

---

You are certainly going out of your way to discredit a fact. Here's Fauci talking briefly about how he is idolized. Fast forward to 17:30. Is that the best you got in trying to counter my points? Are you now going to go back and see if I missed a comma somewhere? You are posting garbage. Better luck next time.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/04/28/amanpour-covid-pandemic-anthony-fauci.cnn

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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I might regret asking the question, but . . . seriously, why would it be strange for there to be an annual COVID shot (which is basically what this would be), like there is for the flu?

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Why has an mRNA vaccine never been approved for anything but covid? Your answer lies there.

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Because sometimes new technologies happen?

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New technologies that create vaccine holidays as most people can't work the next day because the vaccine is so intolerable.

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Yes, this was advertised as a potential side effect up front. And?

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It packs a punch. Part of that punch is a high rate of myocarditis. Because of such, shouldn't be recommended for healthy men under 35. Yes, I understand that myocarditis is NOW advertised as a potential side effect.

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So we've moved from "it shouldn't have been approved" to "it shouldn't be recommended for a particular group." Okay.

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No, we are discussing the CDC's overbroad recommendations, as stated above. Not sure if you are purposely moving the needle or just lost complete focus on what we are talking about.

Remember this from yesterday? ...

"CDC recommends updated Covid-19 vaccines for everyone 6 months and older."

They further said, "If you have not received a COVID-19 vaccine in the past 2 months, get an updated COVID-19 vaccine to protect yourself this fall and winter."

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Yes, which sounds like a very similar recommendation (not requirement) as for flu shots. Remember that from yesterday? I'm saying that doesn't seem weird.

You seem to think the myocarditis risk is so grave that it should not be recommended. From what I can tell, that risk is wildly overblown by conspiracy theorists. I doubt I would ever convince you of that.

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Yes, we are talking about mRNA covid shots, which have a high likelihood of knocking you out of work or school for a day as well as a real myocarditis risk, with flu shots, which don't have a high likelihood of knocking you out of work or school for a day and don't have a real myocarditis risk.

They aren't the same. Thanks for making me spell it out. Have a nice day.

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Don't like them, don't take them.

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Finally! That's what the policy should have been all along; the individual makes the choice. Forced drug injections (mandates) are wrong. (They're also super counter-productive in the long term - nothing creates vaccine opposition like mandates do.)

bearister said:

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Why do people that are against vaccines and masking all seem to share a bundle of identical beliefs with regard to a variety of issues?

*Issues: Ukraine War, January 6, integrity of 2020 Election, tRump's indictments, Impeacment of Biden, gun control, tax cuts for the wealthy and the Trickle Down Theory, Climate Change, Women's reproductive rights, and healthcare.

*Is it a coincidence? Is it because really smart people think alike? What is it? Is it because Tucker is a sage like Mose?

---

For the same reason that people that have vaxgasms and maskgasms also tend to share a bundle of identical beliefs with each other.
They do not understand the provocation of Russia and the doom of our Ukraine policy. They think that Biden is just fine mentally. They see that Oakland is safer because of its gun control laws compared to Nebraska or somewhere. Shoplifting up to $1000 is fine, and jail is wrong. They think you can never tax the rich or corporations enough. They believe that making everything electric is fine because no greenhouse gases are produced when we make electricity, and that will solve everything. They have no problem with the mining needed to create the massive battery of the Tesla. They think the problems with our education system are rooted in them not being transgender friendly enough, and on and on. Everything Rachel Maddow has ever said is true....
Of course, neither the stereotypes that you wrote nor what I wrote above is fully true. But it has become tribal on both sides. There certainly was vilification of those of us who wouldn't go along, from the President on down. I have very good reasons to not have taken any of the covid shots, and I've lost a number of friends who just couldn't believe I could be so willing to kill others by not getting it. Doesn't matter that I'm a lifelong liberal or anything else; they had covid hysteria. I must be a Trumper, right?

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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REPORT: Top COVID 'experts' including Dr. Anthony Fauci and former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins cashed in on $325 million through royalty checks from the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1690729024736088064&ved=2ahUKEwiNhdrAr6iBAxXU****HZ0lC0kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3HSfDPquDqGpDPl7VsRoOn

That's a lot of money in royalties for Fauci and Collins, impartial government servants, revered by lemmings.

---

Revered is your word, used to smear your opponents. People who agreed with Fauci and Collins didn't revere or worship him. You make these kinds of disingenuous arguments, yet you wonder why people take issue with you.

---

Fauci was Time Man of the Year. There was even a 2021 movie made about him. I stand by what I said.

---

Being Time's Man of the Year doesn't mean they were worshiped or even heroic. See how Time defines it:

What does it mean to be Person of the Year?

The title goes to "the person or persons who most affected the news and our lives, for good or ill, and embodied what was important about the year, for better or for worse," as former Managing Editor Walter Isaacson wrote in the 1998 issue. That means the person is not necessarily a heroAdolf Hitler, for example, was Person of the Year in 1938, with a cover showing him playing a ghastly organ and a cover line touting, "From the unholy organist, a hymn of hate." Stalin got the nod twice, while the selection of Iran's Ayatullah Khomeini in 1979, when the magazine called him "the mystic who lit the fires of hatred." And some choices have been ambiguous; take Newt Gingrich, who was a hero to some and a menace to others.

As for the movie, there have been movies made about Jesus Christ and movies about Ted Bundy. It doesn't mean much except that the subject was noteworthy for some reason.

Quote:

---

By any chance, have you bought this? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.amazon.com/Fauci-Fan-Club-gift-Women/dp/B08F63H1HX&ved=2ahUKEwjb1bfrtqiBAxWHJUQIHZRFB0AQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ak_21-FoHYpDzG4y7vYTR

---

You can find similar t-shirts for just about any public or historical figure, good or bad. Another meaningless belittling taunt from you.

---

You are certainly going out of your way to discredit a fact. Here's Fauci talking briefly about how he is idolized. Fast forward to 17:30. Is that the best you got in trying to counter my points? Are you now going to go back and see if I missed a comma somewhere? You are posting garbage. Better luck next time.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/04/28/amanpour-covid-pandemic-anthony-fauci.cnn

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You should investigate the differences between facts and opinions.

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That ranks in the top 100 of dumbest things you have ever said to support your poor arguments. It is a fact that many revere Fauci. I do at least giving you credit for attempting to make logical arguments (even if auxiliary to an argument) instead of merely throwing out childish insults like angrybear.