Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

390,668 Views | 4869 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by bearister
oski003
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Zippergate said:

It was safe, effective, recommended by all the authorities, and on the market for years.
And then it was gone.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Next.


Outside of UK pulling it a while back (note that Astra Zeneca 's vax was developed in the UK), is the EU pulling it? I can't find any information on this...
Big C
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Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
movielover
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Fredo Cuomo now says he has after effects from the vaxx.
Cal88
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oski003 said:

Zippergate said:

It was safe, effective, recommended by all the authorities, and on the market for years.
And then it was gone.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Next.


Outside of UK pulling it a while back (note that Astra Zeneca 's vax was developed in the UK), is the EU pulling it? I can't find any information on this...




oski003
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Cal88 said:

oski003 said:

Zippergate said:

It was safe, effective, recommended by all the authorities, and on the market for years.
And then it was gone.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Next.


Outside of UK pulling it a while back (note that Astra Zeneca 's vax was developed in the UK), is the EU pulling it? I can't find any information on this...







Interesting. Looks like we are now back to a status of zero dna vector vaccines being authorized in Europe or North America for anything whatsoever (which is something the FDA lied about when authorizing J&J before later sunsetting it). The liars marketed the DNA vector vaccine as traditional and outright lied on their Twitter. Lying, disgusting FDA. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Zippergate
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Big C said:

Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
If it were my child's pediatrician, I'd be asking for the evidence that the Covid vaxxines inhibit transmission. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, they weren't tested for it so how do we know that? Given the fact that the vaxxines are non-sterilizing and don't provide mucosal immunity, it's not a given.

And "aren't going to hurt them"? I don't know how these people live with themselves.
Zippergate
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Prasad, the author, was a Covid vaccine advocate when they were introduced. From his substack...
"widespread dishonesty"
No wonder pediatricians get it wrong.

https://www.drvinayprasad.com/p/covid19-vaccines-linked-to-myocarditis?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web..


"Now, we see concerning signals for
  • Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP)
  • Febrile seizures
  • Myocarditis/ pericarditis
  • Racing heart - SVT
  • Bells palsy (facial paralysis)
  • Pulmonary embolism
  • Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis and more
My overall thoughts. A few years ago a vaccine safety researcher told me she worried tinnitus was linked to COVID19 vaccination. Yet, she had to abandon the project because the political pressure to not find safety signals was too high. We repeatedly see researchers saying that COVID19 is still worse than vaccination, but this is dishonest. Vaccination was worse for young men, and that can be easily shown mathematically.
One mistake these people make is they consider the rate of harms post-covid only among people sick enough to present to the doctor with COVID, but this inflates the rate of harms, as I explained. A second mistake they make is lumping 20 year old men with 80 year old women (this paper also makes this mistake), which minimizes the extent of the harm.
I suspect there is widespread dishonesty in the COVID19 vaccine safety literature. There is a strong political effort to not admit that our vaccination policies harmed some populations, and these were known at the time and not just in retrospect. For this reason, the current paper is deeply concerning. It shows that COVID vaccines are capable of lowering platelets, causing clots, damaging hearts and resulting in partial paralysis. "
Big C
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Zippergate said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
If it were my child's pediatrician, I'd be asking for the evidence that the Covid vaxxines inhibit transmission. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, they weren't tested for it so how do we know that? Given the fact that the vaxxines are non-sterilizing and don't provide mucosal immunity, it's not a given.

And "aren't going to hurt them"? I don't know how these people live with themselves.

My main point is that doctors are taking a more nuanced, case-by-case approach to recommending the COVID vaccine, now that the pandemic is over. And we can probably agree that that's a good thing.

IIRC, the vaccine revs up the antibodies (thus lowering infection and transmission) for a few months and then that effect starts to wear off over 3-6 mos.

Most people don't think the vaccine is harmful because we don't get our info from sources like The Vigilant Fox. I know you think he knows more about medicine than places like Harvard, Yale, the National Institutes of Health, the Mayo Clinic, UCSF and Stanford, but I do not, nor do most educated people.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Big C said:

Zippergate said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
If it were my child's pediatrician, I'd be asking for the evidence that the Covid vaxxines inhibit transmission. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, they weren't tested for it so how do we know that? Given the fact that the vaxxines are non-sterilizing and don't provide mucosal immunity, it's not a given.

And "aren't going to hurt them"? I don't know how these people live with themselves.

My main point is that doctors are taking a more nuanced, case-by-case approach to recommending the COVID vaccine, now that the pandemic is over. And we can probably agree that that's a good thing.

IIRC, the vaccine revs up the antibodies (thus lowering infection and transmission) for a few months and then that effect starts to wear off over 3-6 mos.

Most people don't think the vaccine is harmful because we don't get our info from sources like The Vigilant Fox. I know you think he knows more about medicine than places like Harvard, Yale, the National Institutes of Health, the Mayo Clinic, UCSF and Stanford, but I do not, nor do most educated people.
Hey, Zippergate is the world's foremost authority on everything! We're blessed in OT to have so many eminent experts on almost any topic imaginable.
Cal88
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The issue here is that the policies in the medical establishment are driven by big pharma, lobbies, political and cultural considerations rather than the science itself.
Zippergate
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My main point is that doctors are taking a more nuanced, case-by-case approach to recommending the COVID vaccine, now that the pandemic is over. And we can probably agree that that's a good thing.


Agree with that.

IIRC, the vaccine revs up the antibodies (thus lowering infection and transmission) for a few months and then that effect starts to wear off over 3-6 mos.

No, immunity wanes quickly and is negative after six months. This is not my opinion. Reported in multiple studies including a population-level study in the UK.

Most people don't think the vaccine is harmful because we don't get our info from sources like The Vigilant Fox. I know you think he knows more about medicine than places like Harvard, Yale, the National Institutes of Health, the Mayo Clinic, UCSF and Stanford, but I do not, nor do most educated people.

As if that is what I do. Doctors and scientists all over the world are publishing research and sharing anecdotes all the time about the problems with these gene therapies that they are calling vaccines. If your pediatrician is unaware of the controversy, how committed is this person to his/her craft?

I get it that these doctors have been put in a difficult position. But that doesn't mean they should get a pass for spreading unadulterated vaxxine propaganda. It's positive that your pediatrician recognizes that there is no benefit from the vaxxines for children but how can they possibly guarantee that they won't be harmed by them??? Such a statement isn't even true of any medical intervention, let alone an experimental gene therapy that is proven to destroy the lives of 1 to 2 children per thousand at the very least. How many parents are there out there who blindly trust the medical establishment and believe that all vaccines are good? Many, I would think. Such a person might have their child receive the lastest vax without a second thought.

Physicians are not just foot soldiers for the AMA. They have a personal duty to their patients. I don't get the complacency.
Zippergate
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Hey, Zippergate is the world's foremost authority on everything! We're blessed in OT to have so many eminent experts on almost any topic imaginable.

Why jump in to the agora when we have bettors who will tell us everything we need to believe.
bearister
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Cal88 said:

The issue here is that the policies in the medical establishment are driven by big pharma, lobbies, political and cultural considerations rather than the science itself.

Fair point, but a lot of anti vax experts are making serious bank and getting their beaks wetter than they would have had they toed the Big Pharma company line because there are fewer of them.

Do I think the fact anti vaxxers are making serious bank means that they are wrong about the dangers of the Covid vaccine? No, I don't…..but since the anti vax movement thinks the financial connection between Big Pharma and the mainstream medical establishment is a disqualifying conflict of interest rendering their medical advice and opinions untrustworthy, it is only fair to point out that parties on either side of the debate have a conflict of interest.



*Anti-vaxxers, flush with cash, now have political power - POLITICO

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/24/anti-vaxxers-political-power-00116527
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Zippergate
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Why do you only look at one side of the ledger? How many doctors and scientists are there out there who have lost their licenses to practice, lost grants, lost influence, been shunned by colleagues etc? Even looking at the ones who have supposedly gained, many have experienced a net loss. RFK Jr made $500k salary from the CHD, but his total income was close to $8 million, mostly from his environmental law practice. He would unquestionably be more financially successful and politically influential if he hadn't taken up the cause against vaccines.

On the flip side, has anyone in the pro-vaxx camp paid any price at all for their stance?
Zippergate
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Ho-hum, another day, another positive Ivermectin study. Double-blind RCT (gold standard) study shows 83% reduction in ICU visits (3 vs 18 in the control group). Zero serious adverse effects.
No wonder Fauci et al were so eager to kill it. Mission accomplished.

oski003
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Zippergate said:

Why do you only look at one side of the ledger? How many doctors and scientists are there out there who have lost their licenses to practice, lost grants, lost influence, been shunned by colleagues etc? Even looking at the ones who have supposedly gained, many have experienced a net loss. RFK Jr made $500k salary from the CHD, but his total income was close to $8 million, mostly from his environmental law practice. He would unquestionably be more financially successful and politically influential if he hadn't taken up the cause against vaccines.

On the flip side, has anyone in the pro-vaxx camp paid any price at all for their stance?



Bancel and the head of the FDA who approved Moderna and Pfizer made hundred of millions while they pushed aside the FDA head of vaccines because she wouldn't approve mRNA for children. What happened to her?
bearister
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Zippergate said:

Ho-hum, another day, another positive Ivermectin study. Double-blind RCT (gold standard) study shows 83% reduction in ICU visits (3 vs 18 in the control group). Zero serious adverse effects.
No wonder Fauci et al were so eager to kill it. Mission accomplished.




Craig Kelly - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Kelly

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Zippergate
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You do realize that Mr. Kelly was not involved in this clinical trial, right?
Here's the study...
https://brieflands.com/articles/jjhs-146703
Zippergate
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Ivermectin is being prescribed for long-Covid/vaccine-injury. Now that he's off CNN he can say these things and the totalitarian left can hate on him.


bear2034
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Documents Reveal US State Department Officials Knew COVID Leaked From a Wuhan Lab and CCP Covered It Up Back in July 2020

  • COVID-19 originated from a lab-related accident in Wuhan, China;
  • The CCP acted to prevent, and in fact obstructed, a fulsome investigation into these matters
oski003
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bear2034 said:



Documents Reveal US State Department Officials Knew COVID Leaked From a Wuhan Lab and CCP Covered It Up Back in July 2020

  • COVID-19 originated from a lab-related accident in Wuhan, China;
  • The CCP acted to prevent, and in fact obstructed, a fulsome investigation into these matters



Don't forget that Bancel was CEO of the company who designed the Wuhan level 4 lab, the NIH was studying coronaviruses there or at least funding such, and Bancel's company Moderna (working with the NIH) was the first to sequence the covid vaccine. Bancel made hundreds of millions of dollars. Fauci and his NIH scientists made millions because of their patents on the Moderna vaccine.
Zippergate
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Fauci and his NIH scientists made millions because of their patents on the Moderna vaccine.

Who made money and how much? Conflict of interest?
oski003
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Zippergate said:

Fauci and his NIH scientists made millions because of their patents on the Moderna vaccine.

Who made money and how much? Conflict of interest?


Moderna paid $400 million to the NIAID and two American universities, per their February 2023 earnings report.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2023/Moderna-Reports-Fourth-Quarter-and-Fiscal-Year-2022-Financial-Results-and-Provides-Business-Updates/default.aspx

"Cost of Sales: Cost of sales was $1.9 billion, or 39% of product sales, for the fourth quarter of 2022, including third-party royalties of $604 million, of which $400 million related to a catch-up payment to the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) for a new royalty-bearing license agreement executed in December. The agreement provides for low single-digit royalties on future COVID-19 vaccine sales. Cost of sales, as a percentage of product sales, increased by 25 percentage points, from 14% in the same period in 2021."

Moderna did try to exclude 3 NIH scientists on a separate patent issue; all disputes were after approval of the vaccine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/us/moderna-vaccine-patent.html

Apologies for interchanging NIAID and NIH. It is hard to find the specifics but a lot of money was paid to both. Fauci headed the NIAID.
movielover
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Wouldn't this be... fraud?

movielover
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TheFiatLux
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Big C said:

Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
A good thing nobody is calling for your kids to be completely marginalized. That would be pretty repellent, wouldn't it? I'm sorry I can't be gracious about this, but you've never walked back or apologized for your part in this insanity. You ridiculed, mocked, vilified people who, as it turns out, were right. I'd love to move on from this, but until people like you acknowledge what you did, it's hard for me to do that.


Quote:


Big C


After everything that people have had to go through the past year+, i think anybody who chooses to NOT get a vaccine (rare health exemptions aside), should be completely marginalized. Here we're lucky to have a way out of this mess and some people can't even hold out their arm for a free solution.

Zippergate
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But, but, but....CDC, FDA, Harvard, Stanford, Mayo,blah, blah, blah.
What if it was all a house of cards?



Zippergate
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So much in here, every bit of it worth a read...the attacks on vaxxine skeptics, coverup of vaxxine injury and so much more, but there's also data from a fascinating new study of Cleveland employees. Booster effectiveness at a pathetic 23%, but check out the hazard ratio in the results section: 2.51 for those with more than 3 jabs?!? The greater the number of jabs, the higher the risk. If people understood what this meant, there would be pitchforks.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/update-on-covid-mrna-vaccine-harms?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

"The final article to be discussed this upcoming Friday during the live "Fallout" broadcast has not yet passed through the "peer review" tunnel, but comes from one of the leading US medical organizations, the Cleveland Clinic. Cleveland Clinic previously published the first major report of "negative effectiveness" after repeated administration of COVID mRNA "vaccines". What the heck is "negative effectiveness" you may ask? This is a rather nuanced way of saying that, sometime after administration, those who received the "vaccine" products became MORE likely to develop COVID 19 clinical disease. Not only do the "vaccine" products not provide substantial long term protection from infection and disease, but they actually make recipients more likely to develop clinically significant COVID. Which helps make sense of why so many of the clinical trials claiming to demonstrate vaccine effectiveness are short term- they stop collecting data before the recipients slide down into the negative effectiveness side."

...

Results Among 47561 employees, COVID-19 occurred in 838 (1.8%) during the 16-week study period. In multivariable analysis, the 2023-2024 formula vaccinated state was associated with a significantly lower risk of COVID-19 while the JN.1 lineage was the dominant circulating strain (hazard ratio [HR], .77; 95% confidence interval [C.I.], .62-.94; P = .01), yielding an estimated vaccine effectiveness of 23% (95% C.I., 6%-38%). Compared to 0 or 1 prior vaccine doses, risk of COVID-19 was incrementally higher with 2 prior doses (HR, .1.46; 95% C.I., 1.12-1.90; P < .005), 3 prior doses (HR, 1.95; 95% C.I., 1.51-2.52; P < .001), and more than 3 prior doses (HR, 2.51; 95% C.I., 1.91-3.31; P < .001).


Big C
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TheFiatLux said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

bearister said:

Takeaway is that for most over a certain age the risks are worse getting Covid than getting the jab.
Even if that were true, you are implying that for people under a certain age that the risks from Covid are not worse than getting the jab. Prior ignorance is perhaps understandable, but why are we still recommending multiple Covid jabs for children? Now we know that efficacy drops to negative after a few months. We know of multiple kinds of serious side effects but we still do not know about the long term effects. So again, why are these things permitted, let alone recommended, for healthy children? What does the fact that they are say about the integrity of our health institutions?

FYI, my kids just went in for their "wellness check" (Kaiser). My 15 yr old had had the two shots, then one booster a year later. My 11 yr old, just the two shots.

Their pediatrician didn't push the COVID shots at all. "Your call. The shots aren't going to hurt them, but neither will COVID to speak of, at this point. If I were you, I might have them get the vaccine if their grandparents live with you, or if they are about to spend a lot of time with them soon. Otherwise, could go either way."

They didn't get them. Maybe down the road, if there's some insane new variant.
A good thing nobody is calling for your kids to be completely marginalized. That would be pretty repellent, wouldn't it? I'm sorry I can't be gracious about this, but you've never walked back or apologized for your part in this insanity. You ridiculed, mocked, vilified people who, as it turns out, were right. I'd love to move on from this, but until people like you acknowledge what you did, it's hard for me to do that.


Quote:


Big C


After everything that people have had to go through the past year+, i think anybody who chooses to NOT get a vaccine (rare health exemptions aside), should be completely marginalized. Here we're lucky to have a way out of this mess and some people can't even hold out their arm for a free solution.



Mr. Lux, your unvarnished feedback on my posts -- sometimes years afterwards -- is much appreciated, as it sometimes causes me to reexamine my beliefs. Always a good thing! This, compared to the legions of folks in my life outside of BI, seemingly lined up to kiss my azz (either to curry my favor or to sell me something).

So refreshing...

That said, in this case I stand by my views as written in 2021, especially given the context in which they were set (world in the midst of a pandemic). 2024, totally different story. Peace, good health to all and Go Bears!

Zippergate
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We're getting the band back together! Time to load up on pharma stocks. Get ready to file those PPP loans. Pandemic 2.0. It's gonna be lit.



Zippergate
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Perhaps there's an innocuous explanation for this, but the optics are problematic. I wonder how the vaccine injured would feel about this.



Regarding the "bad batches" that showed much higher side effects...

Cal88
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Comprehensive study with ~100 million patients establishes adverse effects of mRNA and vector vaccines:

Cal88
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Kleptocracy.

bear2034
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AR, what a guy. I would have used a different term than Rodgers.
Zippergate
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