Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

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Zippergate
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In reply to sycasey • 9:37p, 3/26/25
Yup, going after all the vaccines. Amazing.

What is truly amazing is that after all the disinformation put out by the medical authorities during Covid that anyone would believe them about anything. That doesn't mean they are wrong about everything, just that they are untrustworthy. And btw, it is quite possible to attack certain vaccines while at the same time not be "going after all the vaccines." The details matter to those who aren't trying to defend their sacred cows at all costs.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to sycasey • 10:25p, 3/26/25
sycasey said:
Zippergate said:
That all vaccines are "safe and effective" is practically axiomatic these days, but I wonder if you have spent even five minutes engaging with the evidence presented by experts who say otherwise. Here's a good place to start.

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/how-much-damage-have-vaccines-done

Yup, going after all the vaccines. Amazing.
Yeah, childhood diseases and adult ones like smallpox never would have killed 2000 kids over the last 100+ years. Then there's polio.
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sycasey
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:12p, 3/26/25
Zippergate said:
Yup, going after all the vaccines. Amazing.

What is truly amazing is that after all the disinformation put out by the medical authorities during Covid that anyone would believe them about anything. That doesn't mean they are wrong about everything, just that they are untrustworthy. And btw, it is quite possible to attack certain vaccines while at the same time not be "going after all the vaccines." The details matter to those who aren't trying to defend their sacred cows at all costs.

I was responding to a claim above that the polio vaccine didn't really end polio. If that's not your position, then no need to argue with me.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to sycasey • 6:46a, 3/27/25
sycasey said:
Zippergate said:
That all vaccines are "safe and effective" is practically axiomatic these days, but I wonder if you have spent even five minutes engaging with the evidence presented by experts who say otherwise. Here's a good place to start.

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/how-much-damage-have-vaccines-done
Yup, going after all the vaccines. Amazing.
They just jumped the shark
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Zippergate
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:43a, 3/27/25
Smallpox!!! Polio!!!! So therefore children need 80+ vaccines.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:22a, 3/27/25
Zippergate said:
Covid vaccines kill and injure otherwise healthy children. FACT. Google "Bradford Hill criteria", the foundation of epidemiology. and then read the case reports provided in this article and try to explain it away.

Multiple studies going back decades have shown that because of systematic underreporting, the actual number of vaccine injuries is 40+ times the number in VAERS. If there are 50 deaths in VAERS, then there are likely nearly 2,000 children who died from the vaccines. Why are these things still on the vaccine schedule?

https://kirschsubstack.com/p/impartial-analysis-of-vaers-death?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

"There are 58 death reports in VAERS for those over 6 and under age 18 for the COVID shots. In any sane society, that would be an immediate stopping condition for a vaccine.
I downloaded all 58 reports and had an unbiased AI chatbot analyze them.
75% of the deaths were likely related to the vaccine. 8% were unrelated. The others lacked sufficient detail to render a judgement.
The stunning conclusion of the analysis was this:
Quote:
The fact that these deaths have not triggered a comprehensive safety review and pause in childhood vaccination programs represents one of the most profound institutional failures in modern medical history.
...

"Temporal Clustering


The majority of deaths occur within a specific timeframe after vaccination - many within days to weeks. This temporal clustering is a classic signal of causality in pharmacovigilance. Particularly striking are cases like:
  • VAERS ID 1242573: 15-year-old male who died of heart failure just 2 days after vaccination
  • VAERS ID 1199455: 17-year-old female who died 8 days after vaccination with chest pain and dyspnea
  • VAERS ID 2454771: 12-year-old female found unresponsive just 1 day after symptoms began, 3 days post-vaccination"
It is important to understand what VAERS is and isn't, how it works and how data in VAERS should be used:
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/what-vaers-is-and-isnt
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movielover
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5:26p, 3/27/25
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 5:37p, 3/27/25
movielover said:
I suspect the FDA might have issues with Arkansas usurping their authority, but these are strange days when day is night and up is down.

Can states now revoke approval for drugs approved by the FDA? That'll open a very messy can of worms.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to Zippergate • 5:42p, 3/27/25
Zippergate said:
Smallpox!!! Polio!!!! So therefore children need 80+ vaccines.
No one ever claimed vaccines were risk free. You apparently believe that because there is a small risk of side effects that all vaccines should be eliminated despite the benefits far out weighing the risks. Your article certainly goes after nearly every vaccine, mostly with correlation data. It's a well known aphorism that correlation isn't causation.
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Cal88
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 7:29p, 3/27/25
tequila4kapp said:
Zippergate said:
Covid vaccines kill and injure otherwise healthy children. FACT. Google "Bradford Hill criteria", the foundation of epidemiology. and then read the case reports provided in this article and try to explain it away.

Multiple studies going back decades have shown that because of systematic underreporting, the actual number of vaccine injuries is 40+ times the number in VAERS. If there are 50 deaths in VAERS, then there are likely nearly 2,000 children who died from the vaccines. Why are these things still on the vaccine schedule?

https://kirschsubstack.com/p/impartial-analysis-of-vaers-death?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

"There are 58 death reports in VAERS for those over 6 and under age 18 for the COVID shots. In any sane society, that would be an immediate stopping condition for a vaccine.
I downloaded all 58 reports and had an unbiased AI chatbot analyze them.
75% of the deaths were likely related to the vaccine. 8% were unrelated. The others lacked sufficient detail to render a judgement.
The stunning conclusion of the analysis was this:
Quote:
The fact that these deaths have not triggered a comprehensive safety review and pause in childhood vaccination programs represents one of the most profound institutional failures in modern medical history.
...

"Temporal Clustering


The majority of deaths occur within a specific timeframe after vaccination - many within days to weeks. This temporal clustering is a classic signal of causality in pharmacovigilance. Particularly striking are cases like:
  • VAERS ID 1242573: 15-year-old male who died of heart failure just 2 days after vaccination
  • VAERS ID 1199455: 17-year-old female who died 8 days after vaccination with chest pain and dyspnea
  • VAERS ID 2454771: 12-year-old female found unresponsive just 1 day after symptoms began, 3 days post-vaccination"
It is important to understand what VAERS is and isn't, how it works and how data in VAERS should be used:
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/what-vaers-is-and-isnt

FYI, according to the VAERS data, the rate of tinnitus cases induced by mRNA vaccines is 0.005%, or 1 in 20,000.
Quote:
The numbers of VAERS tinnitus reports per million doses administered were 23.7 for Pfizer, 27.0 for Moderna and 69.7 for Janssen. Since the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines require two doses, the number of tinnitus reports per million full vaccination is 47.4 and 54.0, respectively.

There are at least 2 posters on this board who have complained about having had tinnitus after their covid shots.

Just to show that their data underreports adverse side effects from the covid jab by a factor larger than 100x.

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:47p, 3/27/25
An acquaintance took the vaxx, immediately fainted, and almost died. (ER visit)

A mutual friend got the flu shot, and soon caught Covid.
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Zippergate
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:54p, 3/27/25
Exactly, and when did the cost-benefit analysis, they considered only myocarditis/pericarditis and ignored tinnitus and all the other adverse events (like death) that millions have experienced. That VAERS page is a remarkable piece of fiction. It assumes 95% efficacy. It assumes that it prevents transmission. It gives the impression that they are following up on all the cases in the system; they aren't.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:58p, 3/27/25
I might argue your facts prove my case. VAERS doesn't show causation of anything. It's a partial voluntary reporting and partial mandatory reporting system. These are reports of "stuff." With all that variability there will naturally be over and under reporting. IE, this reporting doesn't actually show anything meaningful but it could indicate areas where scientists should take a deeper look just in case. EG, re Covid, I recall things like auto accidents deaths being reported to VAERS because the death happened inside the reporting window.
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Zippergate
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 8:06p, 3/27/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Zippergate said:
Smallpox!!! Polio!!!! So therefore children need 80+ vaccines.
No one ever claimed vaccines were risk free. You apparently believe that because there is a small risk of side effects that all vaccines should be eliminated despite the benefits far out weighing the risks. Your article certainly goes after nearly every vaccine, mostly with correlation data. It's a well known aphorism that correlation isn't causation.
You know the risk is small how exactly? That was the point of the piece and the risk certainly doesn't look small. Of course, correlation isn't causation but that begs the question, why don't we have better data? Given that we are practically forcing every child in the country to receive dozens of vaccines, shouldn't we have mountains of data comparing the outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children? So here's a question for you. How many of the approved vaccines have been evaluated by double-blinded RCT for long-term side effects? Since you are asserting that the benefits far outweigh the risks, you should be able to answer that question. Also, how many trials have been given to evaluate the risk of giving multiple vaccines at once to a neonate or infant?

Sneer if you like but I say MAHA. Our health establishment has been failing America's children for decades and it's time to change that.
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Zippergate
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 8:09p, 3/27/25
Sorry, interesting speculation but you're unfamiliar with the literature. It is well-established long before Covid that VAERS underrepresents the prevalence of adverse events. It's at least an order of magnitude and I've seen estimates as high as 100x.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Zippergate • 8:17p, 3/27/25
If even 1 case was submitted for an automobile death caused by the Covid vaccine - which I am virtually certain there was - there is literally over reporting too.
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Zippergate
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8:37p, 3/27/25
What does the long-term Covid vaccine trial data show with respect to cancer? Perhaps the vaccine enthusiasts can chime in here and dispel the warning from this cancer specialist.

https://open.substack.com/pub/lionessofjudah/p/world-renowned-oncologist-sounds?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 8:57p, 3/27/25
movielover said:
An acquaintance took the vaxx, immediately fainted, and almost died. (ER visit)

A mutual friend got the flu shot, and soon caught Covid.

A former co-worker, fit runner in her mid-30s, was found dead from a brain aneurism in her apartment Sunday morning after having gotten her first jab the Friday before. She was one of the earliest in line for the vaccine in her age group. At the time, covid mass anxiety was at its peak (Spring '21), no one in her family, circle of friends or among other co-workers even entertained the notion that her death might have been caused by the mRNA vaccine.
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Cal88
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2:55p, 3/28/25
Cancers that were formerly exceptionally rare among children now appearing.

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bearister
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6:16p, 3/28/25
West Texas children treated for vitamin A toxicity as medical disinformation spreads alongside measles outbreak | TPR


https://www.tpr.org/public-health/2025-03-27/west-texas-children-treated-for-vitamin-a-toxicity-as-medical-disinformation-spreads-alongside-measles-outbreak

"Medical disinformation connected to the West Texas measles outbreak has created a new problem. Children are being treated for toxic levels of vitamin A.

Covenant Children's Hospital in Lubbock confirms it is treating children with severe cases of measles who are also suffering from vitamin A toxicity. According to the hospital, they have admitted fewer than 10 pediatric patients who were all initially hospitalized due to measles complications but have elevated levels of vitamin A that is resulting in abnormal liver function.

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. directed the CDC to update its measles guidance to promote the use of vitamin A.

Kennedy, who has a history of spreading misinformation about vaccines…

……There is no evidence that taking vitamin A will prevent measles."
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Zippergate
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In reply to bearister • 6:38p, 3/28/25
I don't know the details here, but I remember all those stories about people overdosing on animal-grade Ivermectin. Turns out that was pure propaganda. I suspect the same thing is happening here. When the Big Pharma cultists begin acknowledging some of the disinformation of the past, I'll take an interest.
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bearister
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6:46p, 3/28/25
Breaking: RFK Jr. has forced out PETER MARKS, the nation's top vaccine regulator.

In his resignation letter, obtained by the Post, Marks said he was willing to work with RFK Jr on his vaccine concerns but said Kennedy wishes "subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies."
Washington Post *

*I'm actually surprised the WaPo published this in light of the fact Bezos has knelt to kiss the royal knob.
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tequila4kapp
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7:10p, 3/28/25
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
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oski003
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In reply to bearister • 7:24p, 3/28/25
bearister said:
Breaking: RFK Jr. has forced out PETER MARKS, the nation's top vaccine regulator.

In his resignation letter, obtained by the Post, Marks said he was willing to work with RFK Jr on his vaccine concerns but said Kennedy wishes "subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies."
Washington Post *

*I'm actually surprised the WaPo published this in light of the fact Bezos has knelt to kiss the royal knob.


This reminds me of the time when Dr. Marion Gruber and her top deputy, Dr. Philip Krause, director of the FDA's Office of Vaccines Research and Review, resigned because Biden was pressuring the FDA to approve Covid Boosters, especially for kids. I hate the fact that Biden made vaccine approvals seems rushed and unsafe.
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sycasey
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7:50p, 3/28/25
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Zippergate
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 7:58p, 3/28/25
tequila4kapp said:
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
Trying to be charitable but that is a wildly unscientific statement. All vaccines? All safe? All the adjuvants? All the preservatives? All effective? For all viruses? (including corona viruses which constantly mutant and have caused numerous vaccine trials to fail) And what exactly does "work" mean? Do they all prevent infection? transmission? Are they all durable?

And you know all of this how?
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Zippergate
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In reply to sycasey • 7:59p, 3/28/25
Joining Pfizer in 3...2....1...
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 11:37p, 3/28/25
tequila4kapp said:
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
Conspiracy theorists are exercising their confirmation bias. See Zippergate rejecting the news story about kids with Measles and Vitamin A toxicity because it doesn't fit his fringe "science" website and social media medical theories. The anti-vaccine folk have been running through this rabbit hole for 5 years now and they are so warped and out of touch with reality that they actually now believe EVERY vaccine is too unsafe to be used. A small percentage of people with side effects is MUCH more important than the vast number of people helped. It must not have been a dangerous illness if no one's getting sick from it, right? It's so stunningly off base but if you point it out, somehow you're an evil crackpot. Frankly, I think they have a form of mental illness.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Zippergate • 6:12a, 3/29/25
Zippergate said:
tequila4kapp said:
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
Trying to be charitable but that is a wildly unscientific statement. All vaccines? All safe? All the adjuvants? All the preservatives? All effective? For all viruses? (including corona viruses which constantly mutant and have caused numerous vaccine trials to fail) And what exactly does "work" mean? Do they all prevent infection? transmission? Are they all durable?

And you know all of this how?
In the law there's a concept called "judicial notice" - something is so obviously known as truth that a party to a lawsuit doesn't have to provide evidence and prove it.

What does "work mean"? The incidences of the disease are reduced and the risk associated with the vaccine is lower than risk associated with the underlying disease.

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sycasey
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 9:53a, 3/29/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
tequila4kapp said:
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
Conspiracy theorists are exercising their confirmation bias. See Zippergate rejecting the news story about kids with Measles and Vitamin A toxicity because it doesn't fit his fringe "science" website and social media medical theories. The anti-vaccine folk have been running through this rabbit hole for 5 years now and they are so warped and out of touch with reality that they actually now believe EVERY vaccine is too unsafe to be used. A small percentage of people with side effects is MUCH more important than the vast number of people helped. It must not have been a dangerous illness if no one's getting sick from it, right? It's so stunningly off base but if you point it out, somehow you're an evil crackpot. Frankly, I think they have a form of mental illness.
Agree but it's been longer than five years. I remember seeing the anti-vaxxer sentiment rising in well-off Marin County granola types at least 10 years ago. It's how a former lefty like RFK Jr. got folded in.
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wc22
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 10:24a, 3/29/25
tequila4kapp said:
Vaccines are safe and work. How is this even a discussion?
Which ones for which subpopulations?

All the vaccine manufacturers have had major civil and regulatory fines imposed for fraud in research and causing harm with their non-vaccine products. Vaccines are largely excluded from these penalties. And you think it is safe to assume vaccines in general are safe and effective? It is guaranteed, a completely safe assumption, that there is fraud and hidden harms in vaccines. Which vaccines and which harms are the only questions.
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oski003
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11:02a, 3/29/25
Most vaccines are generally safe and effective and their benefits far outweigh their costs.
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 12:56p, 3/29/25
oski003 said:
Most vaccines are generally safe and effective and their benefits far outweigh their costs.

The problem though is that the true costs are not properly accounted for, and in many cases like for the mRNA vaccines, their benefits are grossly exaggerated, especially for the population that has already acquired natural immunity.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:44p, 3/29/25
Cal88 said:
oski003 said:
Most vaccines are generally safe and effective and their benefits far outweigh their costs.

The problem though is that the true costs are not properly accounted for, and in many cases like for the mRNA vaccines, their benefits are grossly exaggerated, especially for the population that has already acquired natural immunity.
Who had natural immunity to Covid in 2020?
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Zippergate
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 3:23p, 3/29/25
Reagan used to say "Trust, but verify." After Covid, the trust is gone. Without verification, that is, without credible data, I'm not going to accept the conclusions of the medical authorities just because of their training and position. Has RFK Jr banned any of the vaccines? He says that NONE of the vaccines are supported by long-term RCT and that we need more data. Even Fauci and Plotkin have admitted this. It's a fact, look it up. People like me are skeptical and want to opt out because the authorities have not nearly enough to dispel our concerns. I don't understand why people like you are so anti-science.

For the record, my children received every vaccine on the schedule up until Covid. If I had it to do over again, that wouldn't be the case. My older son experienced sudden onset of ADHD in the third grade and it makes me wonder.
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