Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

37,806 Views | 1320 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by bearister
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Pfizer data for Israel in July shows that Pfizer was only 16% effective against symptomatic infection for those vaccinated in January (at 6 months).

Since preventing infection appears to be a failure, hopefully the U.S. will support alternative vaccines with safer profiles that will still prevent hospitalization and death.

Some, such as INO 4800 which the U.S. defunded due to pfizers success, have superior cellular immunity and little to no side effects.
Inovio is just about to start phase 3 trials so it's too soon to claim that it has superior safety and efficacy. It is also unlikely to convince any anti-vaxxers to change their position - it's still a DNA vaccine and they will claim it's turning us into robots or whatever.

I welcome all safe and effective vaccines and hope we can add Inovio and others to our arsenal. As others have said, we need people to get vaccinated to control the pandemic. I don't think anyone here (besides you) has religion on what those vaccines are.

Quote:

"The real problem in this country is not that we need to boost the vaccinated - it's that we need to vaccinate the unvaccinated," Offit said. "That's the problem. Until we do that, we're going to suffer in this country."

Moore put it even more starkly: "There are 100,000 to 200,000 people walking around America today who will be dead by the end of the year, and mostly self-inflicted, by refusing vaccination," he said. "That's the bigger issue."
source



Pfizer (Gottlieb) and Moderna (Hahn and Fauci) made sure that non-BP vaccines were not given an opportunity to run a P3 in the USA.

The FDA put a hold on Inovio's P3 trial the week before it was to start. The FDA has not lifted the hold a year later and Inovio changed their strategy to a worldwide approach about 3 months ago. The Department of Defense was going to fund their P3 but cancelled due the impossibility of running a USA P3 with EUA vaccines available. They are finally about to start in Brazil, Czech, China, Mexico, and other places.

Inovio only has data on about 1000 people but the efficacy is strong and the cellular responses are better than the mRNA vaccines. I know about a dozen people in the trial. Some are doctors, nurses, and pharmacists.
The humoral response is not so strong, which is what the Moderna led OWS and Fauci have focused on. The safety data from Inovio's P1 and P2 is like a flu shot, unlike mRNA, which leads the league in side effects.

Yes, Inovio is a DNA tech. So is JnJ. Did you know that? Well, you learn something everyday. The government is fraudulently marketing JnJ as a traditional vaccine. Instead, they should be advancing DNA tech. Inovio's delivery method, although different, is safer that JnJ's, based on p1 and P2 trials.

Edited to add three things:
1) Generally, cellular immunity is what prevents severe disease while humoral immunity prevents infection;
2) I am a HUGE fan of vaccines that don't cause myocarditis; and
3) I do not know whether or not Inovio causes myocarditis. All I know is that mRNA does at an alarming rate and had a WAY WORSE safety profile in P1 and P2 than Inovio.
Yeah, I knew JNJ is DNA based. It doesn't bother me but I'm not an anti-vaxxer.

As for Inovio's safety profile, let's see what happens in p3. The fact that it uses a new novel injection device is both interesting and perhaps one of the challenges it faces but I haven't looked that deeply at in development vaccines.
"Inovio is just about to start phase 3 trials so it's too soon to claim that it has superior safety and efficacy. It is also unlikely to convince any anti-vaxxers to change their position - it's still a DNA vaccine and they will claim it's turning us into robots or whatever."

You made the above argument while knowing JnJ is a DNA vaccine? You are an interesting fellow.

This isn't that hard - anti-vaxxers aren't taking J&J. Lots of anti-vaxxers point to DNA and other scary science words as motivation for their anti-vax views whether for J&J or other vaccines. Inovio is another DNA vaccine that uses a novel injectable device - the anti-vaxxers will probably claim it's to inject Bill Gates mind control chips (particularly given that the Gates foundation is supporting Inovio). That was my point.
dimitrig
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What is the ETA for Novavax in the USA?

oski003
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dimitrig said:


What is the ETA for Novavax in the USA?




There is no ETA for Novavax in the USA. If Pfizer, Moderna, and JnJ all get BLA, is there really a case to be made for Novavax Emergency Use? It would be illogical, unless some mRNA deficiency is acknowledged.
bearister
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Becki Falwell is personally interviewing male students looking for a friendly place to shelter in place at their humble abode.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
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I am not excited at all about mRNA every 5 months.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

I am not excited at all about mRNA every 5 months.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Nobody said life would be fair. It's what we have to deal with.

I'd much rather get booster shots a couple of times a year than get hospitalized with Covid.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

I am not excited at all about mRNA every 5 months.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Nobody said life would be fair. It's what we have to deal with.

I'd much rather get booster shots a couple of times a year than get hospitalized with Covid.


Well, if you leave me only those two choices, I will choose vaccine every time. That's why Pfizer hired ex FDA Chief Gottlieb and Moderna's seed fund hired ex FDA Chief Hahn.
Cal89
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oski003 said:

I am not excited at all about mRNA every 5 months.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Had my two shots, but I admit, I too would not be so keen on doing so with such frequency. If we're talking the lethality of the bubonic plague, any and all options would be more compelling of course.
Sig test...
Unit2Sucks
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This shouldn't be happening. How many stories like this do people need before they wake up?

Unit2Sucks
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More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.



oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.


Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.


Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Obviously most young people will fight off COVID without getting severe illness. No one has ever said otherwise.

Most young people have no reason to fear myocarditis on connection with mRNA vaccines either. It's extremely rare, far more rare than negative outcomes from COVID. According to the study referenced here, males aged 12 to 17 are almost 7x as likely to suffer from myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine. Obviously the two groups are mutually exclusive, but I don't see any reason to believe that there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.


Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Obviously most young people will fight off COVID without getting severe illness. No one has ever said otherwise.

Most young people have no reason to fear myocarditis on connection with mRNA vaccines either. It's extremely rare, far more rare than negative outcomes from COVID. According to the study referenced here, males aged 12 to 17 are almost 7x as likely to suffer from myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine. Obviously the two groups are mutually exclusive, but I don't see any reason to believe that there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.



I want to grab you, shake you, and scream READING COMPREHENSION!!! (in a nice way).

Yes, 6x likely to get myocarditis IF INFECTED WITH COVID 19 then to get it from mRNA vaccination FOLLOWING DOSE 2.

That is not the same thing as what you just stated, at all
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.


Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Obviously most young people will fight off COVID without getting severe illness. No one has ever said otherwise.

Most young people have no reason to fear myocarditis on connection with mRNA vaccines either. It's extremely rare, far more rare than negative outcomes from COVID. According to the study referenced here, males aged 12 to 17 are almost 7x as likely to suffer from myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine. Obviously the two groups are mutually exclusive, but I don't see any reason to believe that there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.



I want to grab you, shake you, and scream READING COMPREHENSION!!! (in a nice way).

Yes, 6x likely to get myocarditis IF INFECTED WITH COVID 19 then to get it from mRNA vaccination FOLLOWING DOSE 2.

That is not the same thing as what you just stated, at all
LOL you should work on your misinformation problem first.

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that COVID will be endemic. People have been infected multiple times from COVID and we don't have a sterilizing vaccine yet. There are people in this country who refused to take any precautions and I would expect to see a continued decline in precautions as we advance. Why am I saying all of this? Because it's time to acknowledge the attack rate is going to approach 100%, and some people will get COVID multiple times. You may not have a choice between vaccination or avoiding COVID. We've already had more than 1/7 of our population have COVID and it's likely that more people in the US have had myocarditis from COVID than if 100% of the country were vaccinated with mRNA.

So if your strategy is to reduce myocarditis through having young men avoid vaccination and avoid COVID, good luck with that. It would fail. You won't reduce COVID's attack rate to the point where the risk of myocarditis is lower for the unvaccinated population than for those seeking vaccination.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

From News-Medical:

Quote:

A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).

...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.

On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.

The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.

Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.






Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."

Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.

My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.

... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.

Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.

Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.

Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?

Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?

Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.


Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Obviously most young people will fight off COVID without getting severe illness. No one has ever said otherwise.

Most young people have no reason to fear myocarditis on connection with mRNA vaccines either. It's extremely rare, far more rare than negative outcomes from COVID. According to the study referenced here, males aged 12 to 17 are almost 7x as likely to suffer from myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine. Obviously the two groups are mutually exclusive, but I don't see any reason to believe that there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.



I want to grab you, shake you, and scream READING COMPREHENSION!!! (in a nice way).

Yes, 6x likely to get myocarditis IF INFECTED WITH COVID 19 then to get it from mRNA vaccination FOLLOWING DOSE 2.

That is not the same thing as what you just stated, at all
LOL you should work on your misinformation problem first.

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that COVID will be endemic. People have been infected multiple times from COVID and we don't have a sterilizing vaccine yet. There are people in this country who refused to take any precautions and I would expect to see a continued decline in precautions as we advance. Why am I saying all of this? Because it's time to acknowledge the attack rate is going to approach 100%, and some people will get COVID multiple times. You may not have a choice between vaccination or avoiding COVID. We've already had more than 1/7 of our population have COVID and it's likely that more people in the US have had myocarditis from COVID than if 100% of the country were vaccinated with mRNA.

So if your strategy is to reduce myocarditis through having young men avoid vaccination and avoid COVID, good luck with that. It would fail. You won't reduce COVID's attack rate to the point where the risk of myocarditis is lower for the unvaccinated population than for those seeking vaccination.



As far as a misinformation problem, I know you are but what am I. You literally just peddled misinformation.

Also, Covid immunity is superior to mRNA vaccine immunity. So, if your argument is that everyone is going to continuously get infected, you also need to admit that this is only versus the reality that we could be getting vaccinated every 5-6 months. LOL at the NFL trying to get Lamar Jackson to get vaccinated (and penalizing him for not doing so). That is completely against common sense and is HARMFUL to him. However, you probably support it because you love shoveling Fauci's *****

Also, my issue has always been the fact that the U.S. slow rolled and denied safer candidates than Pfizer and Moderna. I advocate for the vaccines that have been blocked by Pfizer, Moderna, and other BP.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:



As far as a misinformation problem, I know you are but what am I. You literally just peddled misinformation.

Also, Covid immunity is superior to mRNA vaccine immunity. So, if your argument is that everyone is going to continuously get infected, you also need to admit that this is only versus the reality that we could be getting vaccinated every 5-6 months. LOL at the NFL trying to get Lamar Jackson to get vaccinated (and penalizing him for not doing so). That is completely against common sense and is HARMFUL to him. However, you probably support it because you love shoveling Fauci's *****



More unsupported garbage from you. You are so emotionally invested in your anti-vax agenda that you can't help yourself. The vaccines are safe and pretty effective. We might have to have boosters. There's a lot of Simpson's Paradox confounding the research so it's all a bit unclear now but what is clear is that people who aren't vaccinated are filling up our hospitals and dying. The most dangerous job in America right now is conservative talk show radio host followed by anti-vax rally organizer.

LJ has had COVID twice. LOL at you talking about superiority of immunity from COVID to the vaccine in the context of LJ specifically. I have no idea if he is susceptible to getting it a third time, but it's quite obvious that his first case didn't provide him with immunity. He's had mild cases so it hasn't been a big deal and I have no reason to believe that the vaccine would be an issue for him either. You have zero support for your contention that his vaccination would be "HARMFUL" to him. It would be a non-event. He didn't get myocarditis from either of his bouts with COVID and wouldn't from the vaccine either.

In fact, I am fairly certain that no pro athlete has developed myocarditis from Pfizer or Moderna. The only recent pro player to suffer from myocarditis was the Bills' Tommy Sweeney who was forced to sit out the season in 2020. He got myocarditis from ... COVID. I bet he's vaccinated now. Just face it, you are dead wrong and completely exaggerating the risks of the vaccine.

oski003 said:


Also, my issue has always been the fact that the U.S. slow rolled and denied safer candidates than Pfizer and Moderna. I advocate for the vaccines that have been blocked by Pfizer, Moderna, and other BP.

Wait, are you serious? Why haven't you mentioned this before? Maybe if you repeat this a few hundred times it will make a difference.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:



As far as a misinformation problem, I know you are but what am I. You literally just peddled misinformation.

Also, Covid immunity is superior to mRNA vaccine immunity. So, if your argument is that everyone is going to continuously get infected, you also need to admit that this is only versus the reality that we could be getting vaccinated every 5-6 months. LOL at the NFL trying to get Lamar Jackson to get vaccinated (and penalizing him for not doing so). That is completely against common sense and is HARMFUL to him. However, you probably support it because you love shoveling Fauci's *****



More unsupported garbage from you. You are so emotionally invested in your anti-vax agenda that you can't help yourself. The vaccines are safe and pretty effective. We might have to have boosters. There's a lot of Simpson's Paradox confounding the research so it's all a bit unclear now but what is clear is that people who aren't vaccinated are filling up our hospitals and dying. The most dangerous job in America right now is conservative talk show radio host followed by anti-vax rally organizer.

LJ has had COVID twice. LOL at you talking about superiority of immunity from COVID to the vaccine in the context of LJ specifically. I have no idea if he is susceptible to getting it a third time, but it's quite obvious that his first case didn't provide him with immunity. He's had mild cases so it hasn't been a big deal and I have no reason to believe that the vaccine would be an issue for him either. You have zero support for your contention that his vaccination would be "HARMFUL" to him. It would be a non-event. He didn't get myocarditis from either of his bouts with COVID and wouldn't from the vaccine either.

In fact, I am fairly certain that no pro athlete has developed myocarditis from Pfizer or Moderna. The only recent pro player to suffer from myocarditis was the Bills' Tommy Sweeney who was forced to sit out the season in 2020. He got myocarditis from ... COVID. I bet he's vaccinated now. Just face it, you are dead wrong and completely exaggerating the risks of the vaccine.

oski003 said:


Also, my issue has always been the fact that the U.S. slow rolled and denied safer candidates than Pfizer and Moderna. I advocate for the vaccines that have been blocked by Pfizer, Moderna, and other BP.

Wait, are you serious? Why haven't you mentioned this before? Maybe if you repeat this a few hundred times it will make a difference.


I am not anti-vax, I am anti-warped speed. Apparently, high ranking FDA officials are getting tired of the political pressure to take short cuts.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/fda-vaccine-officials-step-down/index.html

LOL that you think a vaccine designed for the Wuhan strain will protect better against Delta than a person who got Covid on July 28.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Yes, in this situation, a vaccine that causes 60% grade 2 or 3 side effects on dose 2 is harmful. I don't necessarily believe it will give him myocarditis. I believe some pro athletes have gotten myocarditis.

I am not over-exaggerating the risks of mRNA vaccines. Can you cite specific examples? You posted misleading information today. I didn't. You lash out emotionally.


Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:



As far as a misinformation problem, I know you are but what am I. You literally just peddled misinformation.

Also, Covid immunity is superior to mRNA vaccine immunity. So, if your argument is that everyone is going to continuously get infected, you also need to admit that this is only versus the reality that we could be getting vaccinated every 5-6 months. LOL at the NFL trying to get Lamar Jackson to get vaccinated (and penalizing him for not doing so). That is completely against common sense and is HARMFUL to him. However, you probably support it because you love shoveling Fauci's *****



More unsupported garbage from you. You are so emotionally invested in your anti-vax agenda that you can't help yourself. The vaccines are safe and pretty effective. We might have to have boosters. There's a lot of Simpson's Paradox confounding the research so it's all a bit unclear now but what is clear is that people who aren't vaccinated are filling up our hospitals and dying. The most dangerous job in America right now is conservative talk show radio host followed by anti-vax rally organizer.

LJ has had COVID twice. LOL at you talking about superiority of immunity from COVID to the vaccine in the context of LJ specifically. I have no idea if he is susceptible to getting it a third time, but it's quite obvious that his first case didn't provide him with immunity. He's had mild cases so it hasn't been a big deal and I have no reason to believe that the vaccine would be an issue for him either. You have zero support for your contention that his vaccination would be "HARMFUL" to him. It would be a non-event. He didn't get myocarditis from either of his bouts with COVID and wouldn't from the vaccine either.

In fact, I am fairly certain that no pro athlete has developed myocarditis from Pfizer or Moderna. The only recent pro player to suffer from myocarditis was the Bills' Tommy Sweeney who was forced to sit out the season in 2020. He got myocarditis from ... COVID. I bet he's vaccinated now. Just face it, you are dead wrong and completely exaggerating the risks of the vaccine.

oski003 said:


Also, my issue has always been the fact that the U.S. slow rolled and denied safer candidates than Pfizer and Moderna. I advocate for the vaccines that have been blocked by Pfizer, Moderna, and other BP.

Wait, are you serious? Why haven't you mentioned this before? Maybe if you repeat this a few hundred times it will make a difference.


I am not anti-vax, I am anti-warped speed. Apparently, high ranking FDA officials are getting tired of the political pressure to take short cuts.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/fda-vaccine-officials-step-down/index.html

LOL that you think a vaccine designed for the Wuhan strain will protect better against Delta than a person who got Covid on July 28.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Yes, in this situation, a vaccine that causes 60% grade 2 or 3 side effects on dose 2 is harmful. I don't necessarily believe it will give him myocarditis. I believe some pro athletes have gotten myocarditis.

I am not over-exaggerating the risks of mRNA vaccines. Can you cite specific examples? You posted misleading information today. I didn't. You lash out emotionally.





I heard the FDA people quit because the White House got ahead of them in recommending boosters before the FDA was ready. Unfortunately that runs counter to your narrative so you won't mention it.


As for pro athletes getting myocarditis, yes I already mentioned one who got it from COVID. If you knew of any who got it from a vaccine you would be posting about it morning, noon and night.

If Lamar Jackson took the vaccine he would might have to take a day off practice but he would be fine. It seems umm counterproductive for the NFL to make exceptions to their COVID protocols for people who got sick twice and you know this but your agenda is all that matters.

Nice try though.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:



As far as a misinformation problem, I know you are but what am I. You literally just peddled misinformation.

Also, Covid immunity is superior to mRNA vaccine immunity. So, if your argument is that everyone is going to continuously get infected, you also need to admit that this is only versus the reality that we could be getting vaccinated every 5-6 months. LOL at the NFL trying to get Lamar Jackson to get vaccinated (and penalizing him for not doing so). That is completely against common sense and is HARMFUL to him. However, you probably support it because you love shoveling Fauci's *****



More unsupported garbage from you. You are so emotionally invested in your anti-vax agenda that you can't help yourself. The vaccines are safe and pretty effective. We might have to have boosters. There's a lot of Simpson's Paradox confounding the research so it's all a bit unclear now but what is clear is that people who aren't vaccinated are filling up our hospitals and dying. The most dangerous job in America right now is conservative talk show radio host followed by anti-vax rally organizer.

LJ has had COVID twice. LOL at you talking about superiority of immunity from COVID to the vaccine in the context of LJ specifically. I have no idea if he is susceptible to getting it a third time, but it's quite obvious that his first case didn't provide him with immunity. He's had mild cases so it hasn't been a big deal and I have no reason to believe that the vaccine would be an issue for him either. You have zero support for your contention that his vaccination would be "HARMFUL" to him. It would be a non-event. He didn't get myocarditis from either of his bouts with COVID and wouldn't from the vaccine either.

In fact, I am fairly certain that no pro athlete has developed myocarditis from Pfizer or Moderna. The only recent pro player to suffer from myocarditis was the Bills' Tommy Sweeney who was forced to sit out the season in 2020. He got myocarditis from ... COVID. I bet he's vaccinated now. Just face it, you are dead wrong and completely exaggerating the risks of the vaccine.

oski003 said:


Also, my issue has always been the fact that the U.S. slow rolled and denied safer candidates than Pfizer and Moderna. I advocate for the vaccines that have been blocked by Pfizer, Moderna, and other BP.

Wait, are you serious? Why haven't you mentioned this before? Maybe if you repeat this a few hundred times it will make a difference.


I am not anti-vax, I am anti-warped speed. Apparently, high ranking FDA officials are getting tired of the political pressure to take short cuts.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/fda-vaccine-officials-step-down/index.html

LOL that you think a vaccine designed for the Wuhan strain will protect better against Delta than a person who got Covid on July 28.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Yes, in this situation, a vaccine that causes 60% grade 2 or 3 side effects on dose 2 is harmful. I don't necessarily believe it will give him myocarditis. I believe some pro athletes have gotten myocarditis.

I am not over-exaggerating the risks of mRNA vaccines. Can you cite specific examples? You posted misleading information today. I didn't. You lash out emotionally.





I heard the FDA people quit because the White House got ahead of them in recommending boosters before the FDA was ready. Unfortunately that runs counter to your narrative so you won't mention it.


As for pro athletes getting myocarditis, yes I already mentioned one who got it from COVID. If you knew of any who got it from a vaccine you would be posting about it morning, noon and night.

If Lamar Jackson took the vaccine he would might have to take a day off practice but he would be fine. It seems umm counterproductive for the NFL to make exceptions to their COVID protocols for people who got sick twice and you know this but your agenda is all that matters.

Nice try though.


You realize Dr. Marion Gruber was in charge of vaccine authorization at the FDA, was pulled off the Pfizer BLA by someone outside the FDA in an effort to reduce a fast tracked 6 month time span down to 3 months (1 year is standard), and is now quitting because politicians are speeding up booster authorization, right?

Yes, the odds heavily favor a few professional athletes having vaccine caused myocarditis. The U.S. hides this stuff. Just two months ago you were skeptical that these vaccines caused myocarditis at all. Other countries often have to press the issue.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-reports-death-woman-after-pfizer-covid-vaccine-2021-08-30/

https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2021/75959a-eng.php

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/fda-to-add-warning-on-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-about-rare-heart-related-side-effect

As far as NFL protocol, the NFL is small enough and can be run well enough such that logic has a role, even with the prevalence of vaccine inducing rules. I am not too critical of the NFL for this. Requiring Lamar Jackson to vaccinate is the easiest way to maintain their protocols.
Unit2Sucks
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We know Sweeney contracted myocarditis from COVID and missed the 2020 season. Has anyone been pulled from the 2021 season for myocarditis?
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

We know Sweeney contracted myocarditis from COVID and missed the 2020 season. Has anyone been pulled from the 2021 season for myocarditis?


The only person I am aware of is Luke Wilson.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

We know Sweeney contracted myocarditis from COVID and missed the 2020 season. Has anyone been pulled from the 2021 season for myocarditis?


The only person I am aware of is Luke Wilson.
He didn't have myocarditis. Any evidence that his heart issue is vaccine related?

In unrelated news, Joe Rogan has COVID and is an idiot.



oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

We know Sweeney contracted myocarditis from COVID and missed the 2020 season. Has anyone been pulled from the 2021 season for myocarditis?


The only person I am aware of is Luke Wilson.
He didn't have myocarditis. Any evidence that his heart issue is vaccine related?

In unrelated news, Joe Rogan has COVID and is an idiot.






Pericarditis. I do not know if it was vaccine related. Every report for myocarditis actually includes pericarditis as both are now being monitored as an effect of the mRNA vaccines or covid.
bearister
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Israeli coronavirus vaccine booster data gives the U.S. hope - Axios


https://www.axios.com/israeli-coronavirus-vaccine-booster-data-gives-the-us-hope-413536b3-6a51-488f-aa10-42ea8c3b9970.html





COVID cases are still rising across the country - Axios


https://www.axios.com/covid-cases-hospitals-florida-louisiana-texas-south-ef1106c7-f39a-46aa-8c7e-47ab9d37e0ed.html
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
AunBear89
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Professor Terguson said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Imagine being so misled as to call people who take vaccines sheep but poisoning yourself with livestock medicine that literally is for sheep? Like, has a sheep on the bottle? Actually, you don't have to imagine it at all - people like Zippergate and Minot advocate for this poison. And poison control is being overrun with idiots ODing on sheep meds - calls are up over 550% in Texas.



baa baa baaaaa



Maybe because people keep buying the livestock strength stuff at the feed store to avoid prescriptions. Humans self medicating with livestock meds are stupid. Humans who support their right to do so are also stupid and possibly evil. Which are you, YogiHydraSockPuppet?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Unit2Sucks
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Yeah, what can I say but anti-vaxxers are stupid and are eating horse paste and then pooping their pants.

Don't take my word for it - do your own research.

I will give you a few places to start. Why has a US Senator from Arkansas been taking horse dewormer? Why does the manufacturer of horse dewormer think it necessary that they warn people not to?




BearForce2
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FDA warning issued: too much water can be dangerous for your health.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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BearForce2 said:



FDA warning issued: too much water can be dangerous for your health.
Shouldn't Scott Adams be spending his time making Dilbert relevant and funny again?
oski003
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We can debate whether or not the FDA should approve Ivermectin However, as it stands, the use of Ivermectin as an attempt to protect against or treat covid 19 is not helping anyone. People are stupid and will take more than a reasonable amount because there isn't reasonable directions on what a reasonable amount is to prevent or cure covid 19. Also, people are taking it thinking it will cure them when the disease has progressed whereas someone needs to head to urgent care or the ER. People are doing this because the internet or their friends are exaggerating Ivermectin's curative effects. It is doing more harm than good.
BearForce2
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