Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

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Zippergate
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From the Epoch times...

The vaxx cheerleaders will undoubtedly dismiss this article without reading it simply due to the source. But for the most part this is just factual reporting. Either the CDC has repeatedly made false statements or it hasn't. Either it as made a mockery of transparency under the guise of confidentiality or the standard of what constitutes reasonable transparency approaches zero. How anyone can read this and think the CDC is on top of safety and keeping the public informed is beyond me.

---------------

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will not release its review of post-COVID-19-vaccination heart inflammation.

The CDC has been performing abstractions on reports of post-vaccination myocarditis, a form of heart inflammation, submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

But the agency is saying that federal law prevents it from releasing the results.

The abstractions "are considered medical records which are withheld in full from disclosure," the CDC told The Epoch Times in a recent letter, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request.

One of the exemptions in the act says that agencies can withhold materials that are "specifically exempted from disclosure by statute, if that statute (i) requires that the matters be withheld from the public in such a manner as to leave no discretion on the issue; or (ii) establishes particular criteria for withholding or refers to particular types of matters to be withheld; and (B) if enacted after the date of enactment of the OPEN FOIA Act of 2009, specifically cites to this paragraph."

The CDC pointed to the Public Health Service Act, which was enacted in 1944, and says that vaccine injury reports and other information that may identify a person shall not be made available to any person except the person who received the vaccine or a legal representative for that person.

The information sought is available through the CDC website without details that would identify patients, the agency also said.

The CDC said that it does not have a formal definition of "abstraction" but that it means the process of reviewing medical records, including autopsy reports and death certificates, and recording data in a database. "Please note that this definition means that any abstracted data, because they originate from medical records, is also considered medical records," a CDC records officer told The Epoch Times in an email.
'Coverup'

Refusing to release the data raises concerns about transparency, according to Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder and president of the National Vaccine Information Center.

"The stubborn refusal of officials heading up federal health agencies responsible for protecting the public health to come clean with Americans about what they know about COVID vaccine risks is stunning," Fisher told The Epoch Times in an email.

Fisher noted that the CDC has funded electronic medical record systems that collect personal health information and that the agency shares the data with a number of third parties, such as contractors and researchers.

"Yet, CDC officials are claiming they cannot release de-identified abstraction information curated from the medical records of individuals, who have suffered myocarditis or died after COVID shots? This looks and feels like a coverup of the true risks of COVID vaccines," Fisher said.

Fisher called for a congressional probe into what she described as "the disturbing lack of transparency on the part of federal agency officials, who granted COVID vaccine manufacturers an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to widely distribute the vaccines in December 2020 and have recommended and aggressively promoted the vaccines for mandated use ever since."
Initial Response

In response to a separate Freedom of Information Act request, the CDC initially said that it did not perform any abstractions or produce any reports on post-vaccination myocarditis. That request was for reports between April 2, 2021, and Oct. 2, 2021.

The agency also falsely said that a link between myocarditis and the messenger RNA COVID-19 vaccines was not known during that time.

A possible link between those vaccines, made by Pfizer and Moderna, became known in early 2021. Many experts now acknowledge the link is likely or definitely causal.

The CDC later issued a correction on the false claim, as well as the claim that the agency started performing a type of data mining on VAERS data as early as February 2021.

The CDC said in its correction that myocarditis abstractions began being performed in May 2021.

Notified that its response was false and asked to do a fresh search, the records office did not respond.

Appeals have been lodged in that case and after the more recent response withholding the records.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said in a press conference in April 2021 that the agency had not detected a link between the vaccines and myocarditis. The basis for that statement remains unclear.
Part of Pattern

The refusal to provide the myocarditis abstractions is part of a pattern with the CDC and its partner, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

The CDC still hasn't released the results of the data mining, to The Epoch Times, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), or a nonprofit called Children's Health Defense. The agency also declined to provide results from a different monitoring system, V-safe, to a nonprofit called Informed Consent Action Network, which then sued the agency and just recently received the first tranche of data.

The FDA, meanwhile, has refused to release the results of a different type of analysis on the VAERS data, claiming it cannot separate the results from protected internal communications. The agency is also withholding autopsies conducted on people who died after getting COVID-19 vaccines, pointing to exceptions laid out in the Freedom of Information Act.

Along with Johnson, several other lawmakers are pressing at least one of the agencies to release the data, asserting that not doing so is illegal.
DiabloWags
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Zippergate said:

From the Epoch times...


You lost me with your very first sentence.
Porsche . . . "There is no substitute."
movielover
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The way the medical community and leaders have botched this whole scenario has driven public confidence into the toilet (along with the disgraced FIB, State Dept and DOJ). I'm not a doctor, but let's summarize a few high points:

1. Many aren't "anti vaxx". We're anti force, pro Free Speech, pro information. (I get the flu vaccine.)
2. We immediately knew who this was affecting. Why didn't we PRIORITIZE the elderly, African Americans, Latinos, diabetics, and the elderly with multiple co morbidities??
3. Gov. Newsom and his Harvard PhDs had months to prepare, and failed to vaccinate the vulnerable; but DiabloWags will hurl cheap racial insults at me.
4. The Lancet published a fraudulent paper on HCQ, a potential therapeutic.
5. The fraud goes further when they don't test the HCQ / Ivermectin cocktail doctors on the ground have success with - Vitamin D, C, Zinc and HCQ or Ivermection. HCQ and Ivermectin reportedly inject the Zinc into the cell, stopping the virus from replication. (A cocktail, just like the HIV cocktails.)
6. Male athletes are collapsing all over, anecdotes, but telling.
7. After a few months, several clinical trials gave the control group (who had a placebo) the vaccine! Why?!
8. Why are we silencing doctors with dissenting opinions?
9. Two years in. Where are the studies on the vaccine, Ivermectin, etc.?
10. My understanding is that the first wave of deaths were older, morbidly obese individuals with multiple co morbidities... diabetics... Then we have growing herd immunity, vaccinations, the virus weakens, which all should be good, and ...Now we have a spike in excess deaths among 18-44 year olds? Incongruous.

I have not jumped the shark, believing that leaders purposefully wanted to kill people. But I do think it's inescapable that Big Pharma has potentially hundreds of Billions in sales, massive profits, and $$$ for lobbyists (politicians) at stake. Big government types seem drunk with power, and are ignorant about science and common sense. (See California slow vaccine rollout.)
DiabloWags
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movielover said:



I have not jumped the shark, believing that leaders purposefully wanted to kill people. But I do think it's inescapable that Big Pharma has potentially hundreds of Billions in sales, massive profits, and $$$ for lobbyists (politicians) at stake. Big government types seem drunk with power, and are ignorant about science and common sense. (See California slow vaccine rollout.)

Sounds like Trump's cabinet filled with THE SWAMP.

From the CEO of EXXON MOBIL to an executive from BOEING to bankers from GOLDMAN SACHS.

Secretary of State, Defense, and Treasury.

DRAIN THE SWAMP!

Porsche . . . "There is no substitute."
movielover
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The same way our FIB and DOJ hide unflattering information.
Unit2Sucks
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movielover said:

The way the medical community and leaders have botched this whole scenario has driven public confidence into the toilet (along with the disgraced FIB, State Dept and DOJ). I'm not a doctor, but let's summarize a few high points:

1. Many aren't "anti vaxx". We're anti force, pro Free Speech, pro information. (I get the flu vaccine.)
2. We immediately knew who this was affecting. Why didn't we PRIORITIZE the elderly, African Americans, Latinos, diabetics, and the elderly with multiple co morbidities??
3. Gov. Newsom and his Harvard PhDs had months to prepare, and failed to vaccinate the vulnerable; but DiabloWags will hurl cheap racial insults at me.
4. The Lancet published a fraudulent paper on HCQ, a potential therapeutic.
5. The fraud goes further when they don't test the HCQ / Ivermectin cocktail doctors on the ground have success with - Vitamin D, C, Zinc and HCQ or Ivermection. HCQ and Ivermectin reportedly inject the Zinc into the cell, stopping the virus from replication. (A cocktail, just like the HIV cocktails.)
6. Male athletes are collapsing all over, anecdotes, but telling.
7. After a few months, several clinical trials gave the control group (who had a placebo) the vaccine! Why?!
8. Why are we silencing doctors with dissenting opinions?
9. Two years in. Where are the studies on the vaccine, Ivermectin, etc.?
10. My understanding is that the first wave of deaths were older, morbidly obese individuals with multiple co morbidities... diabetics... Then we have growing herd immunity, vaccinations, the virus weakens, which all should be good, and ...Now we have a spike in excess deaths among 18-44 year olds? Incongruous.

I have not jumped the shark, believing that leaders purposefully wanted to kill people. But I do think it's inescapable that Big Pharma has potentially hundreds of Billions in sales, massive profits, and $$$ for lobbyists (politicians) at stake. Big government types seem drunk with power, and are ignorant about science and common sense. (See California slow vaccine rollout.)
Cool but first you claimed that there is a "40% increase in all-age, non-Covid mortality" and implied it bears some relation to the vaccine. You haven't shown any evidence of this increase and I've shown very strong evidence from the CDC that it doesn't exist.

Until you address this point why would we waste our time getting into your other claims that are on similarly shaky footing?
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

The way the medical community and leaders have botched this whole scenario has driven public confidence into the toilet (along with the disgraced FIB, State Dept and DOJ). I'm not a doctor, but let's summarize a few high points:

1. Many aren't "anti vaxx". We're anti force, pro Free Speech, pro information. (I get the flu vaccine.)
2. We immediately knew who this was affecting. Why didn't we PRIORITIZE the elderly, African Americans, Latinos, diabetics, and the elderly with multiple co morbidities??
3. Gov. Newsom and his Harvard PhDs had months to prepare, and failed to vaccinate the vulnerable; but DiabloWags will hurl cheap racial insults at me.
4. The Lancet published a fraudulent paper on HCQ, a potential therapeutic.
5. The fraud goes further when they don't test the HCQ / Ivermectin cocktail doctors on the ground have success with - Vitamin D, C, Zinc and HCQ or Ivermection. HCQ and Ivermectin reportedly inject the Zinc into the cell, stopping the virus from replication. (A cocktail, just like the HIV cocktails.)
6. Male athletes are collapsing all over, anecdotes, but telling.
7. After a few months, several clinical trials gave the control group (who had a placebo) the vaccine! Why?!
8. Why are we silencing doctors with dissenting opinions?
9. Two years in. Where are the studies on the vaccine, Ivermectin, etc.?
10. My understanding is that the first wave of deaths were older, morbidly obese individuals with multiple co morbidities... diabetics... Then we have growing herd immunity, vaccinations, the virus weakens, which all should be good, and ...Now we have a spike in excess deaths among 18-44 year olds? Incongruous.

I have not jumped the shark, believing that leaders purposefully wanted to kill people. But I do think it's inescapable that Big Pharma has potentially hundreds of Billions in sales, massive profits, and $$$ for lobbyists (politicians) at stake. Big government types seem drunk with power, and are ignorant about science and common sense. (See California slow vaccine rollout.)
Cool but first you claimed that there is a "40% increase in all-age, non-Covid mortality" and implied it bears some relation to the vaccine. You haven't shown any evidence of this increase and I've shown very strong evidence from the CDC that it doesn't exist.

Until you address this point why would we waste our time getting into your other claims that are on similarly shaky footing?

Here's what I can find on that:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/11/blog-posting/no-covid-19-vaccines-arent-responsible-increase-de/

Seems like one insurance executive said the death rate was up 40% but did not attribute it to vaccines (the more likely explanation is that the increased death rate is because of COVID itself). That didn't stop right-wingers and conspiracy theorists from running with that number and blaming it on vaccines, though.
DiabloWags
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Unit2Sucks said:


Cool but first you claimed that there is a "40% increase in all-age, non-Covid mortality" and implied it bears some relation to the vaccine. You haven't shown any evidence of this increase and I've shown very strong evidence from the CDC that it doesn't exist.

Until you address this point why would we waste our time getting into your other claims that are on similarly shaky footing?


Agreed.
Quite frankly, I'm about to use the IGNORE feature and add another "name" to my list.

Porsche . . . "There is no substitute."
BearNIt
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oski003 said:

BearNIt said:

oski003 said:

BearNIt said:

movielover said:

Do you think teenagers and young children, who have low infection rates and rarely die from Covid, should be exposed to the risks?

What do you think of the numerous accounts of cardiac issues with young boys and men?
Yes, teenagers and young children should get vaccinated as they are in close contact with each other and are ideal transmission vectors for COVID. Think of the flu and the ease that the flu may run through elementary school, middle school, high school, and college. The function of a virus is to survive and replicate.

Per the study entitled: "Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents"

Cardiovascular manifestations in adolescents after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination included tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis. The clinical presentation of myopericarditis after vaccination was usually mild and temporary, with all cases fully recovering within 14 days. Hence, adolescents receiving mRNA vaccines should be monitored for cardiovascular side effects.

All patients are monitored for side effects after receiving vaccinations or being boosted. Like with all vaccinations, patients are made aware of the risk, and should anything unusual arise that they contact their doctor or come to the ED. Also, the Thai study had a small sample size of 301 individuals from two schools.



Even though the vaccines only prevent infection for three months? That is silly. The risks outweigh the benefits here. Are you burnt out seeing kids dying of covid?
Are you bored or just misinformed? Maybe you should visit a COVID unit and speak to the patients or families of patients and hear what they have to say instead of making the comments you made above.

"BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccination Leads to Long-Term Protection from COVID-19 Disease"


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538967/




How does this relate to vaccinating healthy children? Are you burnt out seeing them dying of covid? I am way closer to this than you realize btw.
It relates to vaccinating healthy children by making it more likely that if they should be infected with COVID .that they don't die or suffer the adverse effects of the virus. Also, it works to lessen the likely hood of transmission of the virus to the larger population.
Big C
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Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

The way the medical community and leaders have botched this whole scenario has driven public confidence into the toilet (along with the disgraced FIB, State Dept and DOJ). I'm not a doctor, but let's summarize a few high points:

1. Many aren't "anti vaxx". We're anti force, pro Free Speech, pro information. (I get the flu vaccine.)
2. We immediately knew who this was affecting. Why didn't we PRIORITIZE the elderly, African Americans, Latinos, diabetics, and the elderly with multiple co morbidities??
3. Gov. Newsom and his Harvard PhDs had months to prepare, and failed to vaccinate the vulnerable; but DiabloWags will hurl cheap racial insults at me.
4. The Lancet published a fraudulent paper on HCQ, a potential therapeutic.
5. The fraud goes further when they don't test the HCQ / Ivermectin cocktail doctors on the ground have success with - Vitamin D, C, Zinc and HCQ or Ivermection. HCQ and Ivermectin reportedly inject the Zinc into the cell, stopping the virus from replication. (A cocktail, just like the HIV cocktails.)
6. Male athletes are collapsing all over, anecdotes, but telling.
7. After a few months, several clinical trials gave the control group (who had a placebo) the vaccine! Why?!
8. Why are we silencing doctors with dissenting opinions?
9. Two years in. Where are the studies on the vaccine, Ivermectin, etc.?
10. My understanding is that the first wave of deaths were older, morbidly obese individuals with multiple co morbidities... diabetics... Then we have growing herd immunity, vaccinations, the virus weakens, which all should be good, and ...Now we have a spike in excess deaths among 18-44 year olds? Incongruous.

I have not jumped the shark, believing that leaders purposefully wanted to kill people. But I do think it's inescapable that Big Pharma has potentially hundreds of Billions in sales, massive profits, and $$$ for lobbyists (politicians) at stake. Big government types seem drunk with power, and are ignorant about science and common sense. (See California slow vaccine rollout.)
Cool but first you claimed that there is a "40% increase in all-age, non-Covid mortality" and implied it bears some relation to the vaccine. You haven't shown any evidence of this increase and I've shown very strong evidence from the CDC that it doesn't exist.

Until you address this point why would we waste our time getting into your other claims that are on similarly shaky footing?


Honestly, Unit2Sucks, you have the patience of Job with these people.
BearNIt
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Zippergate said:

BearNIt said:

movielover said:

Do you think teenagers and young children, who have low infection rates and rarely die from Covid, should be exposed to the risks?

What do you think of the numerous accounts of cardiac issues with young boys and men?
Yes, teenagers and young children should get vaccinated as they are in close contact with each other and are ideal transmission vectors for COVID. Think of the flu and the ease that the flu may run through elementary school, middle school, high school, and college. The function of a virus is to survive and replicate.

Per the study entitled: "Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents"

Cardiovascular manifestations in adolescents after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination included tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis. The clinical presentation of myopericarditis after vaccination was usually mild and temporary, with all cases fully recovering within 14 days. Hence, adolescents receiving mRNA vaccines should be monitored for cardiovascular side effects.

All patients are monitored for side effects after receiving vaccinations or being boosted. Like with all vaccinations, patients are made aware of the risk, and should anything unusual arise that they contact their doctor or come to the ED. Also, the Thai study had a small sample size of 301 individuals from two schools.

Where is the evidence that the mRNA "vaccines" prevent teens from being vectors of transmission?
It's about the science right? So show us the RCT. How many times have we heard we have to have RCT data. So let's see it. Have these products even been evaluated for transmission? The Dutch member of parliament got a Pfizer rep to admit that prior to launch that they were NOT evaluated on this basis. They just assumed that they would. And there is no evidence that they have been since. Birx said they hoped they would inhibit transmission but admitted in her book that it turned out not to be true.

The fact is, you (as the health authorities did before you) just assume that the mRNA vaccines prevent transmission because Big pharma called them vaccines, and as everyone knows, vaccines prevent transmission. Well, maybe they don't stop transmission because they are not vaccines, certainly not in the traditional sense. Show me the vaccinated child who became infected with polio or whooping cough. Fact, the mRNA "vaccines" do not prevent one from catching Covid. Fact, fully vaccinated people have the same amount of virus in their nasal passages as the un-vaccinated. This was admitted on camera by both Walensky and Fauci. What they do seem to be able to achieve is a reduction in hospitalization and death from Covid for a few months, at least for the earlier strains of the virus. Evidence now suggests that that is no longer the case for Omicron variants. So these are treatments, not sterilizing vaccines.

So why do you keep perpetrating the long-ago debunked lie that these "vaccines" are somehow stopping the spread of Covid? Let's deal with the science we have rather than the science we want.



I don't even know what to say about your argument or whatever you want to call it. Stop reading the Epoch Times, it is not a reputable news source it's TRASH. The vaccine was created to lower transmission rates and to lessen the likely hood that you will die should you get COVID.
Zippergate
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It relates to vaccinating healthy children by making it more likely that if they should be infected with COVID .that they don't die or suffer the adverse effects of the virus. Also, it works to lessen the likely hood of transmission of the virus to the larger population.

Interesting theory but where is your evidence that the "vaccines" reduce transmission? Sorry, "vaccines reduce transmission" is not gonna cut it. And parroting the talking points of the CDC circa January 2021 does not constitute evidence. I wonder if you are aware that they are no longer making that claim. Where's the RCT? In the absence of that, how about comparing transmission rates in highly vaccinated countries versus those with low vaccination rates?




Zippergate
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BearNIt said:

Zippergate said:

BearNIt said:

movielover said:

Do you think teenagers and young children, who have low infection rates and rarely die from Covid, should be exposed to the risks?

What do you think of the numerous accounts of cardiac issues with young boys and men?
Yes, teenagers and young children should get vaccinated as they are in close contact with each other and are ideal transmission vectors for COVID. Think of the flu and the ease that the flu may run through elementary school, middle school, high school, and college. The function of a virus is to survive and replicate.

Per the study entitled: "Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents"

Cardiovascular manifestations in adolescents after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination included tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis. The clinical presentation of myopericarditis after vaccination was usually mild and temporary, with all cases fully recovering within 14 days. Hence, adolescents receiving mRNA vaccines should be monitored for cardiovascular side effects.

All patients are monitored for side effects after receiving vaccinations or being boosted. Like with all vaccinations, patients are made aware of the risk, and should anything unusual arise that they contact their doctor or come to the ED. Also, the Thai study had a small sample size of 301 individuals from two schools.

Where is the evidence that the mRNA "vaccines" prevent teens from being vectors of transmission?
It's about the science right? So show us the RCT. How many times have we heard we have to have RCT data. So let's see it. Have these products even been evaluated for transmission? The Dutch member of parliament got a Pfizer rep to admit that prior to launch that they were NOT evaluated on this basis. They just assumed that they would. And there is no evidence that they have been since. Birx said they hoped they would inhibit transmission but admitted in her book that it turned out not to be true.

The fact is, you (as the health authorities did before you) just assume that the mRNA vaccines prevent transmission because Big pharma called them vaccines, and as everyone knows, vaccines prevent transmission. Well, maybe they don't stop transmission because they are not vaccines, certainly not in the traditional sense. Show me the vaccinated child who became infected with polio or whooping cough. Fact, the mRNA "vaccines" do not prevent one from catching Covid. Fact, fully vaccinated people have the same amount of virus in their nasal passages as the un-vaccinated. This was admitted on camera by both Walensky and Fauci. What they do seem to be able to achieve is a reduction in hospitalization and death from Covid for a few months, at least for the earlier strains of the virus. Evidence now suggests that that is no longer the case for Omicron variants. So these are treatments, not sterilizing vaccines.

So why do you keep perpetrating the long-ago debunked lie that these "vaccines" are somehow stopping the spread of Covid? Let's deal with the science we have rather than the science we want.



I don't even know what to say about your argument or whatever you want to call it. Stop reading the Epoch Times, it is not a reputable news source it's TRASH. The vaccine was created to lower transmission rates and to lessen the likely hood that you will die should you get COVID.
You call that a rebuttal? If I got one of the facts wrong, then by all means please correct me and stop with the logical fallacies. You people keep making the claim that the vaccines block transmission. So show the damn evidence already. Goodness, this isn't hard. YOU are the one making the claim. Now back it up.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Zippergate said:

It relates to vaccinating healthy children by making it more likely that if they should be infected with COVID .that they don't die or suffer the adverse effects of the virus. Also, it works to lessen the likely hood of transmission of the virus to the larger population.

Interesting theory but where is your evidence that the "vaccines" reduce transmission? Sorry, "vaccines reduce transmission" is not gonna cut it. And parroting the talking points of the CDC circa January 2021 does not constitute evidence. I wonder if you are aware that they are no longer making that claim. Where's the RCT? In the absence of that, how about comparing transmission rates in highly vaccinated countries versus those with low vaccination rates?
If you aren't ill with COVID, at the very least you have a much lower viral load, and most likely no viral load at all. Therefore you are much less contagious. Ergo, there is less transmission of the disease from vaccinated people. That's my seemingly logical take. I'll defer to the trained medical experts as to whether I have that right, not somebody who's deeply buried in the anti-vax rabbit hole and quoting Chinese news sources like The Epoch Times.
Zippergate
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Zippergate said:

It relates to vaccinating healthy children by making it more likely that if they should be infected with COVID .that they don't die or suffer the adverse effects of the virus. Also, it works to lessen the likely hood of transmission of the virus to the larger population.

Interesting theory but where is your evidence that the "vaccines" reduce transmission? Sorry, "vaccines reduce transmission" is not gonna cut it. And parroting the talking points of the CDC circa January 2021 does not constitute evidence. I wonder if you are aware that they are no longer making that claim. Where's the RCT? In the absence of that, how about comparing transmission rates in highly vaccinated countries versus those with low vaccination rates?
If you aren't ill with COVID, at the very least you have a much lower viral load, and most likely no viral load at all. Therefore you are much less contagious. Ergo, there is less transmission of the disease from vaccinated people. That's my seemingly logical take. I'll defer to the trained medical experts as to whether I have that right, not somebody who's deeply buried in the anti-vax rabbit hole and quoting Chinese news sources like The Epoch Times.
Your theories are "seemingly logical," even plausible. The only problem is, it's not evidence. Don't get me wrong. It was a reasonable hope back in December 2020 when the vaccines were launched. There wasn't evidence for it at the time, but that didn't stop the CDC from categorically saying that the vaccines prevented transmission. But now we know differently. In fact, we've known for over a year. Are you saying you and your seemingly logical theories are more credible than the CDC which recommended masks again based on evidence that the viral load in the nasal passages of the vaccinated was the same as the unvaccinated thus causing transmission of the virus?

Wow, I'm so relieved. I think you made a monumental contribution to the advancement of science. To think all these years we have been wasting resources on clinical trials when all we really needed was your seemingly logical theories.

Btw, please note that the Epoch Times article I posted did not make any claims of safety or efficacy. It merely detailed the false statements made by the CDC regarding lts tracking and evaluation of myocarditis cases. Do you disagree with the sequence of events they presented? Is so, please show me how the ET is in error. Let me guess, the CDC did not make false statements because...the CDC does not make false statements. Seemingly logical, indeed.
Unit2Sucks
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Zipperhate only believes the results of properly administered RCTs unless it's for some crackpot snake oil therapeutic in which case any evidence will suffice. Hence he has full faith and confidence in ivermectin and HCQ despite numerous studies having been shown to be fraudulent or misrepresented and plenty of RCTs showing them to have no value in treating COVID (unless you also have worms).

He's not a serious poster.
Zippergate
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Unit2Sucks said:

Zipperhate only believes the results of properly administered RCTs unless it's for some crackpot snake oil therapeutic in which case any evidence will suffice. Hence he has full faith and confidence in ivermectin and HCQ despite numerous studies having been shown to be fraudulent or misrepresented and plenty of RCTs showing them to have no value in treating COVID (unless you also have worms).

He's not a serious poster.
Huh? Nice word salad. I'm agreeing with your side for the sake of argument that if RCTs are the only form of acceptable evidence as has been claimed, then should we not judge the mRNA jabs based on that standard? We were told that "vaccines" blocked transmission. There was no evidence for it then as admitted by the Pfizer rep. Surely there must be evidence for it now. So let's see it. You ridicule the evidence for Ivermectin, but at least it does have published clinical evidence in its favor. But this isn't about Ivermectin. You tried to change the subject because you think you've won the rhetorical battle on that front. Whatever. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Where's the evidence that the jabs reduce transmission. And for the umpteenth time, I am not the one making the claim, you (and your fellow Branch Covidians) are. If you can't substantiate your massive claim, then you are not only a non-serious poster, you are a misinformation spreader.
BearNIt
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Zippergate said:

It relates to vaccinating healthy children by making it more likely that if they should be infected with COVID .that they don't die or suffer the adverse effects of the virus. Also, it works to lessen the likely hood of transmission of the virus to the larger population.

Interesting theory but where is your evidence that the "vaccines" reduce transmission? Sorry, "vaccines reduce transmission" is not gonna cut it. And parroting the talking points of the CDC circa January 2021 does not constitute evidence. I wonder if you are aware that they are no longer making that claim. Where's the RCT? In the absence of that, how about comparing transmission rates in highly vaccinated countries versus those with low vaccination rates?
If you aren't ill with COVID, at the very least you have a much lower viral load, and most likely no viral load at all. Therefore you are much less contagious. Ergo, there is less transmission of the disease from vaccinated people. That's my seemingly logical take. I'll defer to the trained medical experts as to whether I have that right, not somebody who's deeply buried in the anti-vax rabbit hole and quoting Chinese news sources like The Epoch Times.


You have got it right.
bearister
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Modest surge" of COVID-19 expected this winter, UCSF expert says - Axios San Francisco


https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2022/10/13/modest-covid-19-surge-winter-san-francisco
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Zippergate
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bearister said:

Modest surge" of COVID-19 expected this winter, UCSF expert says - Axios San Francisco


https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2022/10/13/modest-covid-19-surge-winter-san-francisco
So rush out and get that booster which protects against a strain that disappeared over a year ago and another strain that is mostly gone as well.
movielover
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Dutch PM Rob Roos, a member of the EU Parliament, recently questioned the leading representative from Pfizer. Mr. Roos asked Pfizer if the mRNA vaccine was ever tested - to see if it blocked transmission of the virus. Ms J Small responded by saying "no".

This cuts to the heart of the issue surrounding the vaccine passport and various rules and regulations that were implemented against unvaccinated people. Therefore, the premise of the vaccine passport was built on a lie. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people could carry and shed the SARS-CoV-2 virus regardless of vaccination status.



The understated Dr. John Campbell, a retired UK scientist / nurse (teacher), explains the "speed of science" - around 3:30. (I believe he's liberal.)


Zippergate
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movielover said:

Dutch PM Rob Roos, a member of the EU Parliament, recently questioned the leading representative from Pfizer. Mr. Roos asked Pfizer if the mRNA vaccine was ever tested - to see if it blocked transmission of the virus. Ms J Small responded by saying "no".

This cuts to the heart of the issue surrounding the vaccine passport and various rules and regulations that were implemented against unvaccinated people. Therefore, the premise of the vaccine passport was built on a lie. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people could carry and shed the SARS-CoV-2 virus regardless of vaccination status.

The understated Dr. John Campbell, a retired UK scientist / nurse (teacher), explains the "speed of science" - around 3:30. (I believe he's liberal.)

Yep. That video from Roos has 10+ million views. Word is spreading.

Regarding Campbell, his transformation over the past year and a half has been stunning. He began the plandemic in complete alignment with the medical authorities pushing the vaxxines at every opportunity. Now he questions everything.

Dr. Suneel Dhand is another one. Even when he was still blue-pilled and very much a vaxx advocate, I still appreciated his perspective, but he has become a bold voice for the truth about Covid and medical corruption in general.

Fauci's a appeal to a fact-checker

CA silences doctors








Unit2Sucks
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movielover said:

Dutch PM Rob Roos, a member of the EU Parliament, recently questioned the leading representative from Pfizer. Mr. Roos asked Pfizer if the mRNA vaccine was ever tested - to see if it blocked transmission of the virus. Ms J Small responded by saying "no".

This cuts to the heart of the issue surrounding the vaccine passport and various rules and regulations that were implemented against unvaccinated people. Therefore, the premise of the vaccine passport was built on a lie. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people could carry and shed the SARS-CoV-2 virus regardless of vaccination status.



The understated Dr. John Campbell, a retired UK scientist / nurse (teacher), explains the "speed of science" - around 3:30. (I believe he's liberal.)



Unit2Sucks said:


Cool but first you claimed that there is a "40% increase in all-age, non-Covid mortality" and implied it bears some relation to the vaccine. You haven't shown any evidence of this increase and I've shown very strong evidence from the CDC that it doesn't exist.

Until you address this point why would we waste our time getting into your other claims that are on similarly shaky footing?

movielover
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Mr. Roos and Mr. Campbell can speak for themselves. They both call this a "scandal".
Unit2Sucks
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movielover said:

Mr. Roos and Mr. Campbell can speak for themselves. They both call this a "scandal".
Is this your way of admitting that you recognize there wasn't actually a 40% increase in all-ages non-COVID mortality? You have as much credibility as qanon at this point.
DiabloWags
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Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

Mr. Roos and Mr. Campbell can speak for themselves. They both call this a "scandal".
Is this your way of admitting that you recognize there wasn't actually a 40% increase in all-ages non-COVID mortality? You have as much credibility as qanon at this point.

True.
Porsche . . . "There is no substitute."
Zippergate
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Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

Mr. Roos and Mr. Campbell can speak for themselves. They both call this a "scandal".
Is this your way of admitting that you recognize there wasn't actually a 40% increase in all-ages non-COVID mortality? You have as much credibility as qanon at this point.
I don't know what the actual number is (why is it so hard to get data out of the CDC these days? hmm) but I have seen many credible reports that show non-Covid all-cause mortality is elevated, particularly in younger, working-age groups, and the spike happened in summer/fall 2021 when the mandates went into effect. That you aren't the least curious and concerned about this even now says a lot about what you are really about: the obstreperous defense of a position--that Covid vaxxs are a godsend that everyone should be forced to submit to--long after that position has been completely annihilated.

Still waiting for you to show me any evidence that the Covid vaxxines prevent transmission.
Still waiting for you to show me any evidence that the Covid vaxxines were even tested for their ability to prevent transmission.
Still waiting for you to explain why people should be pressured into receiving the jabs if there is no evidence that they prevent transmission.

Btw, have you heard of v-safe? It's a system set up by the CDC to track vaccine side effects. Early in the rollout, some vaccine recipients (mostly healthcare workers, I believe) were given a smartphone app and told to record their symptoms. 10 million volunteers participated. The CDC refused to release the data, but someone sued under the FOIA and a judge finally forced the CDC to release the data. I don't think the app gave participants the ability to list all their symptoms but only check from a list provided by the CDC so in that sense this is not a full picture of the damage caused by the vaxxines. But here's a snip...

https://www.icandecide.org/v-safe-data/
10 million volunteers
70 million entries for symptoms
750,000 (7.5%) needed medical care
- 112,000 emergency room visits (1.1%)
- 72,000 hospitalizations (0.7%)
Deaths? Who knows, for obvious reasons.

What was the hospitalization rate for Covid? On a confirmed case basis, probably quite a bit higher than 0.7%, but on an infection basis (all Covid infected including those who did not get tested or had an asymptomatic case), 0.7% might be a realistic guess, especially considering these were likely younger, healthier people than the typical case that seeks medical care. And these are just the immediate, acute impacts of the vaxxines.

Yeah, these gene therapies are just like every other vaccine on the schedule. Not.
Unit2Sucks
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Zippergate said:

Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

Mr. Roos and Mr. Campbell can speak for themselves. They both call this a "scandal".
Is this your way of admitting that you recognize there wasn't actually a 40% increase in all-ages non-COVID mortality? You have as much credibility as qanon at this point.
I don't know what the actual number is (why is it so hard to get data out of the CDC these days? hmm) but I have seen many credible reports that show non-Covid all-cause mortality is elevated, particularly in younger, working-age groups, and the spike happened in summer/fall 2021 when the mandates went into effect. That you aren't the least curious and concerned about this even now says a lot about what you are really about: the obstreperous defense of a position--that Covid vaxxs are a godsend that everyone should be forced to submit to--long after that position has been completely annihilated.



I provided the CDC provisional data. There is zero reason to believe that vaccines were responsible for any increase in mortality, nor do you have any data showing that any increase would be from vaccines rather than, you know, the COVID pandemic which is ravaging this country and the world. For every anecdote you can find of a young person who died after receiving the vaccine, I can find one of a young person who mysteriously died after recovering from COVID.

The more likely explanation for these "unexplained" deaths is that they are associated with prior COVID infection, not with mRNA vaccines. You're an anti-vaxxer who believes that HCQ and Ivermectin are effective against COVID, so spare us the pretense that you are driven by logic or meaningful information. You're not a serious poster and I'm only here right now because I enjoy the sport.

Zippergate said:



Still waiting for you to show me any evidence that the Covid vaxxines prevent transmission.
Still waiting for you to show me any evidence that the Covid vaxxines were even tested for their ability to prevent transmission.
Still waiting for you to explain why people should be pressured into receiving the jabs if there is no evidence that they prevent transmission.



I'm not sure why you are going on about this topic. It doesn't interest me and I've made no statements about it in the entire long and sordid history of this idiotic thread. In a post-Omicron world, we know that the vaccines aren't super effective at preventing infection (other than for a very limited time) and we know that they still do a great job preventing serious cases and death. We also know that 3k Americans per week are dying of COVID and the vast majority of them are doing it by suicide because they believe the BS you are selling about the vaccines being unsafe. I'm not cheerleading for anyone to get multiple boosters if they don't want to, but any adult in October 2022 who is unvaccinated and has never had COVID is putting themselves at risk to end up in the suicide count.


Zippergate said:


Btw, have you heard of v-safe? It's a system set up by the CDC to track vaccine side effects. Early in the rollout, some vaccine recipients (mostly healthcare workers, I believe) were given a smartphone app and told to record their symptoms. 10 million volunteers participated. The CDC refused to release the data, but someone sued under the FOIA and a judge finally forced the CDC to release the data. I don't think the app gave participants the ability to list all their symptoms but only check from a list provided by the CDC so in that sense this is not a full picture of the damage caused by the vaxxines. But here's a snip...

https://www.icandecide.org/v-safe-data/
10 million volunteers
70 million entries for symptoms
750,000 (7.5%) needed medical care
- 112,000 emergency room visits (1.1%)
- 72,000 hospitalizations (0.7%)
Deaths? Who knows, for obvious reasons.

What was the hospitalization rate for Covid? On a confirmed case basis, probably quite a bit higher than 0.7%, but on an infection basis (all Covid infected including those who did not get tested or had an asymptomatic case), 0.7% might be a realistic guess, especially considering these were likely younger, healthier people than the typical case that seeks medical care. And these are just the immediate, acute impacts of the vaxxines.

Yeah, these gene therapies are just like every other vaccine on the schedule. Not.


This is complete garbage analysis. The problem with anti-vaxxers like you is that you have no interest in evaluating the data you share or wondering why it is the way it is. You listen to what other anti-vaxxers have to say and you parrot it without a second thought.

So let's talk about this data. My understanding is it includes reports starting a week after people received their shots and extending for a full year. You said it's mostly healthcare workers. Presumably, it's the same healthcare workers who have been staffing hospitals and clinics full of COVID patients during the pandemic. There are so many reasons why 1.1% of healthcare workers would end up in an emergency room during a year of helping triage the pandemic which has nothing to do with the vaccines. Hell, everyone in my immediate family visited an emergency room within 1-year of vaccination. Off the top of my head it was from 1 weird allergic reaction, 1 broken arm and 1 fish hook stuck in a leg. Which of those do you attribute to mRNA?

As much as nutjobs want to cherry-pick their way into demonizing mRNA vaccines, the reality is that you are no different from the morons who believe that Bill Gates injected us with computer chips to control our minds. You don't understand data, don't care to dig into it and you think you know the answer but you don't even know the question.

Zippergate
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U2S, there is so much nonsense in your post that it would take days to unpack but I will focus on this paragraph since it is most to germaine to this thread.


I'm not sure why you are going on about this topic. It doesn't interest me and I've made no statements about it in the entire long and sordid history of this idiotic thread. In a post-Omicron world, we know that the vaccines aren't super effective at preventing infection (other than for a very limited time) and we know that they still do a great job preventing serious cases and death. We also know that 3k Americans per week are dying of COVID and the vast majority of them are doing it by suicide because they believe the BS you are selling about the vaccines being unsafe. I'm not cheerleading for anyone to get multiple boosters if they don't want to, but any adult in October 2022 who is unvaccinated and has never had COVID is putting themselves at risk to end up in the suicide count.


It doesn't matter whether you are interested in the topic of the vaccines and transmissibility. It is central to this entire discussion and can't be avoided. This thread is about mandates, remember? Health care workers who had had Covid were forced to get the vaxx in order to keep their jobs and some were killed or maimed. College students who were at infinitesimal risk of Covid are STILL BEING FORCED TO RECEIVE BOOSTERS. IN LATE 2022. FOR THE ORIGNAL STRAIN OF THE VIRUS. BOOSTERS THAT WERE TESTED ON EIGHT MICE AND ZERO HUMANS. THAT WERE NOT VOTED ON BY AN INDEPENDENT SAFETY PANEL.

We now know that there was zero evidence gathering on the question of whether the vaxxes prevent transmission. But we were fed that lie, over and over. Why? Because they knew they could only enforce mandates if this were true and that many people would succumb to the pressure to get vaxxed if they believed it was to protect others. It was not a medical decision; it was a pharma P&L decision. But this grand lie was just the tip of the iceberg.

They lied about the origin of the virus.
They lied about natural immunity.
They lied about Remdesivir and murdered Covid patients with it.
They lied about the safety of some of the safest medicines available.
They lied about the effectiveness of readily available treatments in order to protect the vaxx EUA.
They covered up deficiencies in the vaxxine clinical trials.
They lied about the safety monitoring of the vaxxines.
They lied (amplified) and continue to lie about Covid death numbers.
They lied about side effects of the vaccines. They lied about the durability of vaccine effectiveness.
I could go on and on.
Lie upon lie.

So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.

oski003
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Zippergate said:

U2S, there is so much nonsense in your post that it would take days to unpack but I will focus on this paragraph since it is most to germaine to this thread.


I'm not sure why you are going on about this topic. It doesn't interest me and I've made no statements about it in the entire long and sordid history of this idiotic thread. In a post-Omicron world, we know that the vaccines aren't super effective at preventing infection (other than for a very limited time) and we know that they still do a great job preventing serious cases and death. We also know that 3k Americans per week are dying of COVID and the vast majority of them are doing it by suicide because they believe the BS you are selling about the vaccines being unsafe. I'm not cheerleading for anyone to get multiple boosters if they don't want to, but any adult in October 2022 who is unvaccinated and has never had COVID is putting themselves at risk to end up in the suicide count.


It doesn't matter whether you are interested in the topic of the vaccines and transmissibility. It is central to this entire discussion and can't be avoided. This thread is about mandates, remember? Health care workers who had had Covid were forced to get the vaxx in order to keep their jobs and some were killed or maimed. College students who were at infinitesimal risk of Covid are STILL BEING FORCED TO RECEIVE BOOSTERS. IN LATE 2022. FOR THE ORIGNAL STRAIN OF THE VIRUS. BOOSTERS THAT WERE TESTED ON EIGHT MICE AND ZERO HUMANS. THAT WERE NOT VOTED ON BY AN INDEPENDENT SAFETY PANEL.

We now know that there was zero evidence gathering on the question of whether the vaxxes prevent transmission. But we were fed that lie, over and over. Why? Because they knew they could only enforce mandates if this were true and that many people would succumb to the pressure to get vaxxed if they believed it was to protect others. It was not a medical decision; it was a pharma P&L decision. But this grand lie was just the tip of the iceberg.

They lied about the origin of the virus.
They lied about natural immunity.
They lied about Remdesivir and murdered Covid patients with it.
They lied about the safety of some of the safest medicines available.
They lied about the effectiveness of readily available treatments in order to protect the vaxx EUA.
They covered up deficiencies in the vaxxine clinical trials.
They lied about the safety monitoring of the vaxxines.
They lied (amplified) and continue to lie about Covid death numbers.
They lied about side effects of the vaccines. They lied about the durability of vaccine effectiveness.
I could go on and on.
Lie upon lie.

So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Unit2Sucks
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Zippergate said:


So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.


Yes, we all recognize that you don't have any interest in reality but the fact remains that ~3k people per week are still dying of COVID and that unvaccinated people are at much higher risk.

oski003 said:




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Undoubtedly a tragedy, how many times will you post it?

A few weeks ago an unvaccinated teenager died of COVID in Montana. Should I repost this every time one of your anti-vaxxers pretends like COVID doesn't impact adolescents?


oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Zippergate said:


So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.


Yes, we all recognize that you don't have any interest in reality but the fact remains that ~3k people per week are still dying of COVID and that unvaccinated people are at much higher risk.

oski003 said:




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Undoubtedly a tragedy, how many times will you post it?

A few weeks ago an unvaccinated teenager died of COVID in Montana. Should I repost this every time one of your anti-vaxxers pretends like COVID doesn't impact adolescents?



I am not sure who you allege "my" anti-vaxxers are; however, you are welcome to post the rare instances where covid kills a teenager just as I post the rare instances where vaccines kill a healthy young adult. Did the teenager in Montana have any serious preexisting conditions making them vulnerable to covid, such as obesity?

Please also note that deaths caused by covid are broadcasted to the world, even if covid isn't the absolute confirmed cause. Deaths caused by the vaccine are presumed not to be and kept hidden until a family speaks out. In which case, it makes local news and news sources you don't trust.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Zippergate said:


So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.


Yes, we all recognize that you don't have any interest in reality but the fact remains that ~3k people per week are still dying of COVID and that unvaccinated people are at much higher risk.

oski003 said:




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Undoubtedly a tragedy, how many times will you post it?

A few weeks ago an unvaccinated teenager died of COVID in Montana. Should I repost this every time one of your anti-vaxxers pretends like COVID doesn't impact adolescents?



I am not sure who you allege "my" anti-vaxxers are; however, you are welcome to post the rare instances where covid kills a teenager just as I post the rare instances where vaccines kill a healthy young adult. Did the teenager in Montana have any serious preexisting conditions making them vulnerable to covid, such as obesity?

Please also note that deaths caused by covid are broadcasted to the world, even if covid isn't the absolute confirmed cause. Deaths caused by the vaccine are presumed not to be and kept hidden until a family speaks out. In which case, it makes local news and news sources you don't trust.
Oh right, there are no pure COVID deaths according to anti-vaxxers but any time a vaccinated person dies it's a pure vaccine death and we should ignore any and all relevant circumstances.

A healthy 17-year old from San Diego died of COVID earlier this year. Her parents said that she considered herself to be indestructible but they begged her to get the vaccine.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Zippergate said:


So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.


Yes, we all recognize that you don't have any interest in reality but the fact remains that ~3k people per week are still dying of COVID and that unvaccinated people are at much higher risk.

oski003 said:




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Undoubtedly a tragedy, how many times will you post it?

A few weeks ago an unvaccinated teenager died of COVID in Montana. Should I repost this every time one of your anti-vaxxers pretends like COVID doesn't impact adolescents?



I am not sure who you allege "my" anti-vaxxers are; however, you are welcome to post the rare instances where covid kills a teenager just as I post the rare instances where vaccines kill a healthy young adult. Did the teenager in Montana have any serious preexisting conditions making them vulnerable to covid, such as obesity?

Please also note that deaths caused by covid are broadcasted to the world, even if covid isn't the absolute confirmed cause. Deaths caused by the vaccine are presumed not to be and kept hidden until a family speaks out. In which case, it makes local news and news sources you don't trust.
Oh right, there are no pure COVID deaths according to anti-vaxxers but any time a vaccinated person dies it's a pure vaccine death and we should ignore any and all relevant circumstances.

A healthy 17-year old from San Diego died of COVID earlier this year. Her parents said that she considered herself to be indestructible but they begged her to get the vaccine.


Nobody told you to ignore any and all relevant circumstances. The vaccines can harm both the healthy and unhealthy, just like covid can. Perhaps, the voices in your head told you to ignore stuff? As for Miss Stonum, that is a sad story. She caught covid right when Omicron was battling the much more severe delta strain for dominance. She died in January. Delta is gone. The much less severe Omicron strain has been dominant for the past 8 months.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Zippergate said:


So no, I do not accept their data that 3k people a week are dying of Covid. No, I don't believe the ridiculous lie that it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," that the ones dying from the disease are unvaccinated. In light of what is happening, in Israel, New Zealand and Australia where almost everyone is vaccinated, that conclusion is absurd.

Every argument you make is dependent on the credibility of an institution that has none.


Yes, we all recognize that you don't have any interest in reality but the fact remains that ~3k people per week are still dying of COVID and that unvaccinated people are at much higher risk.

oski003 said:




Makes me very sad to read stuff like this. Sacrificing the healthy to sort of kind of protect the unhealthy.

https://www.fox3now.com/20-year-old-kansas-girl-regan-laine-lewis-dies-of-cardiac-arrest-within-24-hours-of-her-covid-vaccine/
Undoubtedly a tragedy, how many times will you post it?

A few weeks ago an unvaccinated teenager died of COVID in Montana. Should I repost this every time one of your anti-vaxxers pretends like COVID doesn't impact adolescents?



I am not sure who you allege "my" anti-vaxxers are; however, you are welcome to post the rare instances where covid kills a teenager just as I post the rare instances where vaccines kill a healthy young adult. Did the teenager in Montana have any serious preexisting conditions making them vulnerable to covid, such as obesity?

Please also note that deaths caused by covid are broadcasted to the world, even if covid isn't the absolute confirmed cause. Deaths caused by the vaccine are presumed not to be and kept hidden until a family speaks out. In which case, it makes local news and news sources you don't trust.
Oh right, there are no pure COVID deaths according to anti-vaxxers but any time a vaccinated person dies it's a pure vaccine death and we should ignore any and all relevant circumstances.

A healthy 17-year old from San Diego died of COVID earlier this year. Her parents said that she considered herself to be indestructible but they begged her to get the vaccine.


Nobody told you to ignore any and all relevant circumstances. The vaccines can harm both the healthy and unhealthy, just like covid can. Perhaps, the voices in your head told you to ignore stuff? As for Miss Stonum, that is a sad story. She caught covid right when Omicron was battling the much more severe delta strain for dominance. She died in January. Delta is gone. The much less severe Omicron strain has been dominant for the past 8 months.
Splinters can cause infection, just like gunshots can. False equivalences are misleading rhetorical tools, aren't they?
 
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