Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

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MinotStateBeav
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Boston Univ creates a COVID variant that kills 80% it infects...meaning we just don't learn. This exactly the garbage the CCP was doing. I don't care how safe these labs think they are..it only takes one accident.
oski003
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MinotStateBeav said:

Boston Univ creates a COVID variant that kills 80% it infects...meaning we just don't learn. This exactly the garbage the CCP was doing. I don't care how safe these labs think they are..it only takes one accident.


Moderna CEO was CEO of company that designed and built the high security Wuhan lab where Covid 19 likely leaked from. Moderna is headquartered in Boston. I need more popcorn.
Zippergate
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Here's the Thursday agenda for the ACIP committee meeting that starts on Wednesday, Oct 19:
[url=https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1702435c-2fb5-465e-9296-f86ea63b171f_891x480.png][/url]
It's too ambiguous to figure out so we should assume the worst.
They aren't supposed to put an EUA vaccine on the Immunization Schedule, but since when has that stopped them?
This is the big prize for a vaccine manufacturer.
If you get put on the CDC childhood vaccine schedule, it means:
[ol]
  • Liability protection forever for not just the vaccine for kids, but for the adult vaccine as well
  • All states require vaccination in order to attend public school. Many tie their list to the CDC list or a subset thereof. So getting on the list is a key step to being mandated in many states.
  • [/ol]That's why they've targeted the kids with a vaccine that they don't need.
    Do you know any child who died from COVID? I'm a professional misinformation spreader and I've never heard of a single case where a healthy child died from COVID. That we should recommend a vaccine which is nearly 100 times more harmful than helpful is ridiculous (see this paper from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, …).
    But this isn't going to change anything because it's not about the science.
    It's highly likely that on Thursday, the ACIP committee will vote to put the EUA COVID vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule.
    You can comment here by clicking the comment button:


    Zippergate
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    You can't make this stuff up.
    Unit2Sucks
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    Zippergate said:



    You can't make this stuff up.
    Except you and others are making it up.

    The whole "controversy" around the bogus claims made by a bunch of idiots was that just by virtue of getting the vaccine, people could "shed" virus and spread COVID. Not because they were infected with COVID, just by virtue of being vaccinated. That's why a bunch of these braindead zombies were running around calling themselves purebloods and proclaiming far and wide that they didn't want to be exposed to vaccinated people.

    No one has ever shown any evidence to support a claim that vaccinated people (who are not infected with COVID) somehow still spread COVID. There is a secondary question which is whether vaccinated people who suffer breakthrough infections can still spread COVID. We obviously know now that they can and that the reduction in transmission isn't very significant with Omicron. But that doesn't change the fact that early on, vaccines did significantly reduce infection (and non-infected people don't spread COVID) and that there was some reduction in transmission for breakthrough infections vs infections of unvaccinated people. There have been a few studies about this (here's just one) showing various levels in reduction of transmission. I'm not sure there is much point to dealing with them now since Omicron is so transmissive and there are no other variants of interest that matter.

    Twitter's policy on misleading information specifically references two relevant false claims: (1) "The vaccines will cause you to be sick, spread the virus, or would be more harmful than getting COVID-19" and (2) "False or misleading claims that people who have received the vaccine can spread or shed the vaccine (or symptoms, or immunity) to unvaccinated people." No one has ever shown anything to dispute the notion that those are wildly false claims to make yet so many idiots were saying them last year (and maybe still are, I have no idea). I know an idiot who was home-schooled and believed that the COVID test gave her boyfriend COVID. She also believes that there are 5G chips implanted in the vaccine and she was afraid of vaccinated people getting her sick. This is looney tunes level thinking and that's what Twitter attempted to address. I also believe this level of thinking is consistent with what Zipperhate has spread on BI.


    oski003
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    Zippergate said:

    Here's the Thursday agenda for the ACIP committee meeting that starts on Wednesday, Oct 19:
    [url=https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1702435c-2fb5-465e-9296-f86ea63b171f_891x480.png][/url]
    It's too ambiguous to figure out so we should assume the worst.
    They aren't supposed to put an EUA vaccine on the Immunization Schedule, but since when has that stopped them?
    This is the big prize for a vaccine manufacturer.
    If you get put on the CDC childhood vaccine schedule, it means:
    [ol]
  • Liability protection forever for not just the vaccine for kids, but for the adult vaccine as well
  • All states require vaccination in order to attend public school. Many tie their list to the CDC list or a subset thereof. So getting on the list is a key step to being mandated in many states.
  • [/ol]That's why they've targeted the kids with a vaccine that they don't need.
    Do you know any child who died from COVID? I'm a professional misinformation spreader and I've never heard of a single case where a healthy child died from COVID. That we should recommend a vaccine which is nearly 100 times more harmful than helpful is ridiculous (see this paper from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, …).
    But this isn't going to change anything because it's not about the science.
    It's highly likely that on Thursday, the ACIP committee will vote to put the EUA COVID vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule.
    You can comment here by clicking the comment button:





    I thought this post was out of left field but I am hearing more and more this is true. If true, this is further proof that big pharma has bought the CDC. When USucks says so what, it is not like it is mandated anymore, this type of crap is the problem. This is the reason I post. Our children are being given a vaccine that would never in years past be approved, and Pfizer and Moderna will never have liability for the damage they cause.
    MinotStateBeav
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    Follow up to Boston U researchers creating deadly Covid variant.

    Top NIH director admits Boston lab that created new COVID strain did NOT clear research with agency.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11327741/Top-NIH-director-admits-Boston-lab-created-new-Covid-strain-did-NOT-clear-research-agency.html
    Unit2Sucks
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    MinotStateBeav said:

    Follow up to Boston U researchers creating deadly Covid variant.

    Top NIH director admits Boston lab that created new COVID strain did NOT clear research with agency.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11327741/Top-NIH-director-admits-Boston-lab-created-new-Covid-strain-did-NOT-clear-research-agency.html
    This is another right wing outrage event but not a scandal. The article you posted does a good job of laying all of this out.

    Quote:

    Boston University insisted it was not technically gain-of-function research because its chimeric virus only killed 80 per cent of mice. The original Wuhan strain, for comparison, killed 100 per cent of the rodents.

    A spokesperson for the university told DailMail.com: 'In fact, this research made the virus less dangerous.'

    ...

    A spokesman for Boston University today told DailyMail.com they 'did not have an obligation to disclose this research'.

    They said the experiments were carried out with funds from Boston University.

    'NIAID funding was acknowledged as a courtesy because it was used to help develop the tools and platforms that were used in this research, they did not fund this research directly,' they said.
    This left them with no obligation to report the research to the agency, they added.

    I understand there are argument as to whether this is gain of function research, but in any event it was not funded or in any way approved by the government.

    I'm not going to defend the research - I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish here or what the real risks are, but I think it's incredibly disingenuous for anyone to equate what happened here with the gain of function research that people have speculated happened at WIV and to COVID. All of which is still speculation, of course.
    Zippergate
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    Unit2Sucks said:

    Zippergate said:



    You can't make this stuff up.
    Except you and others are making it up.

    The whole "controversy" around the bogus claims made by a bunch of idiots was that just by virtue of getting the vaccine, people could "shed" virus and spread COVID. Not because they were infected with COVID, just by virtue of being vaccinated. That's why a bunch of these braindead zombies were running around calling themselves purebloods and proclaiming far and wide that they didn't want to be exposed to vaccinated people.

    No one has ever shown any evidence to support a claim that vaccinated people (who are not infected with COVID) somehow still spread COVID. There is a secondary question which is whether vaccinated people who suffer breakthrough infections can still spread COVID. We obviously know now that they can and that the reduction in transmission isn't very significant with Omicron. But that doesn't change the fact that early on, vaccines did significantly reduce infection (and non-infected people don't spread COVID) and that there was some reduction in transmission for breakthrough infections vs infections of unvaccinated people. There have been a few studies about this (here's just one) showing various levels in reduction of transmission. I'm not sure there is much point to dealing with them now since Omicron is so transmissive and there are no other variants of interest that matter.

    Twitter's policy on misleading information specifically references two relevant false claims: (1) "The vaccines will cause you to be sick, spread the virus, or would be more harmful than getting COVID-19" and (2) "False or misleading claims that people who have received the vaccine can spread or shed the vaccine (or symptoms, or immunity) to unvaccinated people." No one has ever shown anything to dispute the notion that those are wildly false claims to make yet so many idiots were saying them last year (and maybe still are, I have no idea). I know an idiot who was home-schooled and believed that the COVID test gave her boyfriend COVID. She also believes that there are 5G chips implanted in the vaccine and she was afraid of vaccinated people getting her sick. This is looney tunes level thinking and that's what Twitter attempted to address. I also believe this level of thinking is consistent with what Zipperhate has spread on BI.



    Welcome back, Mr. Straw Man. Sorry but if we are to judge every idea by the looniest person and their ideas who share that idea, your side ain't gonna come out of this looking good either. What purebloods and 5G have to do with whether the vaccinated transmit the virus is beyond me and the fact that you would think that that's a clever rebuttal just goes to show how tragically detached from reality you are.

    Fact. The vaccines were marketed to the public on the premise that they blocked transmission. The messaging on this by the government and government-coordinated media was overwhelming.
    Fact. The vaccines were never tested to see if they blocked transmission.
    Therefore, the claim that the vaccines blocked transmission (which was based on hope as Birx and others have admitted), was therefore false and misleading.

    I find it fascinating that the article you share to support your case that the vaxxines stop transmission does not say what you claim.

    "This finding suggests that people with breakthrough infections may be as infectious as unvaccinated people in the early stage of their infection, but that those with breakthrough infections are infectious for a shorter period and therefore less likely to transmit the disease to others over time."

    This is your evidence for blocked transmission?!? Ironically, the exact opposite might be true. Some scientists have made the point that the vaccinated might feel less ill thanks to the vaccines despite having high viral loads in their nasal passages making them more likely to be out and about while sick. In other words, superspreaders. Regardless, there is massive amounts of data showing no correlation between high vaccination rates and lower infection rates.

    But even if the vaxxines did provide some form of benefit with respect to transmission early in the vaxxine rollouts, that is no longer the case with all the variants. (thanks, vaxxers) Pfizer CEO Bourla says this himself.

    So why are we still pretending that everyone needs to be vaxxed?
    Why are still pretending that natural immunity doesn't exist?
    Why are we pretending that side effects aren't real, potentially devastating and very rare in the the young who never needed the vaxxes in the first place?
    Why are we still, yes right now, still vaxxing people with the original strain of the virus, especially now that we know that original antigenic sin leads to negative efficacy over time?

    In short, why aren't we moving with "the speed of science," to quote a phrase from the Pfizer rep in testimony to the European Parliament? Yeah, it's painful to change course, to admit mistakes, to take actions that might hurt Pharma profits, but isn't it more important to be honest with the public and protect people? Protect the young?

    As for your comments on Twitter, once again nice try, straw man. Twitter was blocking people for tweeting that the vaccines did not stop transmission and many other things that turned out by be true. (Can we not read?)

    Why did they do this? Because the government told them to. Despite what your silly factcheckers tell you, censorship is a real thing here in 1984...errr, 2022. Example: The former head of the FDA retired to work for Pfizer. (funny how that works in the Pharma Industrial Complex) He doesn't like some of the things Alex Berenson says on Twitter, makes false accusations about him and then uses his contacts in government to put pressure on Twitter which subsequently bans Berenson. This is fascism.

    You call my ideas here on BI looney tunes. Whatever, Mr. StuckIn2020. I'll stack up my record here up against you any day of the week. Caution was merited, but people like you threw caution to the wind and parroted pure propaganda. The Ministry of Disinformation approves and appreciates your efforts.
    bearister
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    Modest surge" of COVID-19 expected this winter, UCSF expert says - Axios San Francisco


    https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2022/10/13/modest-covid-19-surge-winter-san-francisco
    Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
    Send my credentials to the House of Detention
    I got some friends inside
    Zippergate
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    A new study on Covid-19's infection fatality rate (IFR) by age from a team led by Dr. John Ioannidis, the world's most-cited physician, estimates that Covid's IFR in the pre-vaccine era was under 0.1% for those under 70even lower than previously believed.

    Dr. Ioannidis et. al. found that across 31 national seroprevalence studies in the pre-vaccine era, the median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.003% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.129% at 50-59 years, and 0.501% at 60-69 years. This comes out to 0.035% for those aged 0-59 and 0.095% for those aged 0-69.

    ---------
    Wow, so glad we destroyed the economy, permanently impaired the learning of a generation of children, and forced them to take experimental therapies that have side effects and have no long term safety data. Brilliant
    dimitrig
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    Unit2Sucks said:

    MinotStateBeav said:

    Follow up to Boston U researchers creating deadly Covid variant.

    Top NIH director admits Boston lab that created new COVID strain did NOT clear research with agency.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11327741/Top-NIH-director-admits-Boston-lab-created-new-Covid-strain-did-NOT-clear-research-agency.html
    This is another right wing outrage event but not a scandal. The article you posted does a good job of laying all of this out.

    Quote:

    Boston University insisted it was not technically gain-of-function research because its chimeric virus only killed 80 per cent of mice. The original Wuhan strain, for comparison, killed 100 per cent of the rodents.

    A spokesperson for the university told DailMail.com: 'In fact, this research made the virus less dangerous.'

    ...

    A spokesman for Boston University today told DailyMail.com they 'did not have an obligation to disclose this research'.

    They said the experiments were carried out with funds from Boston University.

    'NIAID funding was acknowledged as a courtesy because it was used to help develop the tools and platforms that were used in this research, they did not fund this research directly,' they said.
    This left them with no obligation to report the research to the agency, they added.

    I understand there are argument as to whether this is gain of function research, but in any event it was not funded or in any way approved by the government.

    I'm not going to defend the research - I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish here or what the real risks are, but I think it's incredibly disingenuous for anyone to equate what happened here with the gain of function research that people have speculated happened at WIV and to COVID. All of which is still speculation, of course.


    It is a dumb argument that just because the virus they created happened to kill fewer mice it is not gain of function research. Of course it is!

    By the way, you'd think researchers would have better things to do in 2022 than kill mice in the name of science.

    oski003
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    Zippergate said:

    A new study on Covid-19's infection fatality rate (IFR) by age from a team led by Dr. John Ioannidis, the world's most-cited physician, estimates that Covid's IFR in the pre-vaccine era was under 0.1% for those under 70even lower than previously believed.

    Dr. Ioannidis et. al. found that across 31 national seroprevalence studies in the pre-vaccine era, the median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.003% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.129% at 50-59 years, and 0.501% at 60-69 years. This comes out to 0.035% for those aged 0-59 and 0.095% for those aged 0-69.

    ---------
    Wow, so glad we destroyed the economy, permanently impaired the learning of a generation of children, and forced them to take experimental therapies that have side effects and have no long term safety data. Brilliant


    I think it is still pretty high for those above 39. 1/2500 or so is still a decent fatality rate for such an infectious disease. 30-39 is borderline but under 30 is extremely rare. It was a deadly disease.
    oski003
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    Unit2Sucks said:

    MinotStateBeav said:

    Follow up to Boston U researchers creating deadly Covid variant.

    Top NIH director admits Boston lab that created new COVID strain did NOT clear research with agency.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11327741/Top-NIH-director-admits-Boston-lab-created-new-Covid-strain-did-NOT-clear-research-agency.html
    This is another right wing outrage event but not a scandal. The article you posted does a good job of laying all of this out.

    Quote:

    Boston University insisted it was not technically gain-of-function research because its chimeric virus only killed 80 per cent of mice. The original Wuhan strain, for comparison, killed 100 per cent of the rodents.

    A spokesperson for the university told DailMail.com: 'In fact, this research made the virus less dangerous.'

    ...

    A spokesman for Boston University today told DailyMail.com they 'did not have an obligation to disclose this research'.

    They said the experiments were carried out with funds from Boston University.

    'NIAID funding was acknowledged as a courtesy because it was used to help develop the tools and platforms that were used in this research, they did not fund this research directly,' they said.
    This left them with no obligation to report the research to the agency, they added.

    I understand there are argument as to whether this is gain of function research, but in any event it was not funded or in any way approved by the government.

    I'm not going to defend the research - I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish here or what the real risks are, but I think it's incredibly disingenuous for anyone to equate what happened here with the gain of function research that people have speculated happened at WIV and to COVID. All of which is still speculation, of course.


    Omicron could very well have been man made by, you guessed it, experiments with mice.

    sycasey
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    oski003 said:

    Unit2Sucks said:

    MinotStateBeav said:

    Follow up to Boston U researchers creating deadly Covid variant.

    Top NIH director admits Boston lab that created new COVID strain did NOT clear research with agency.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11327741/Top-NIH-director-admits-Boston-lab-created-new-Covid-strain-did-NOT-clear-research-agency.html
    This is another right wing outrage event but not a scandal. The article you posted does a good job of laying all of this out.

    Quote:

    Boston University insisted it was not technically gain-of-function research because its chimeric virus only killed 80 per cent of mice. The original Wuhan strain, for comparison, killed 100 per cent of the rodents.

    A spokesperson for the university told DailMail.com: 'In fact, this research made the virus less dangerous.'

    ...

    A spokesman for Boston University today told DailyMail.com they 'did not have an obligation to disclose this research'.

    They said the experiments were carried out with funds from Boston University.

    'NIAID funding was acknowledged as a courtesy because it was used to help develop the tools and platforms that were used in this research, they did not fund this research directly,' they said.
    This left them with no obligation to report the research to the agency, they added.

    I understand there are argument as to whether this is gain of function research, but in any event it was not funded or in any way approved by the government.

    I'm not going to defend the research - I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish here or what the real risks are, but I think it's incredibly disingenuous for anyone to equate what happened here with the gain of function research that people have speculated happened at WIV and to COVID. All of which is still speculation, of course.


    Omicron could very well have been man made by, you guessed it, experiments with mice.



    This just says mice, not lab mice. There are plenty of mice out there in the wild too.
    movielover
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    oski003 said:

    Zippergate said:

    A new study on Covid-19's infection fatality rate (IFR) by age from a team led by Dr. John Ioannidis, the world's most-cited physician, estimates that Covid's IFR in the pre-vaccine era was under 0.1% for those under 70even lower than previously believed.

    Dr. Ioannidis et. al. found that across 31 national seroprevalence studies in the pre-vaccine era, the median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.003% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.129% at 50-59 years, and 0.501% at 60-69 years. This comes out to 0.035% for those aged 0-59 and 0.095% for those aged 0-69.

    ---------
    Wow, so glad we destroyed the economy, permanently impaired the learning of a generation of children, and forced them to take experimental therapies that have side effects and have no long term safety data. Brilliant


    I think it is still pretty high for those above 39. 1/2500 or so is still a decent fatality rate for such an infectious disease. 30-39 is borderline but under 30 is extremely rare. It was a deadly disease.


    It was generally a deadly disease for those who typically were older, and had multiple co morbidities. Diabetes, pneumonia, high blood pressure, and morbid obesity - with Covid on top. Often over 70 or 80. As one doctor said at the time, "They weren't at deaths door, they had one foot through the threshold."

    That was in 2020. I believe there are now reports that there are an increased number of young people dying from or with Covid, which is counter intuitive. Herd immunity up; as the virus mutates, it weakens; the most sick and elderly have already died; what, over 100M vaccinated; and doctors and hospitals knowledgeable and with tools. The deaths should have dropped.
    Unit2Sucks
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    oski003 said:

    Zippergate said:

    A new study on Covid-19's infection fatality rate (IFR) by age from a team led by Dr. John Ioannidis, the world's most-cited physician, estimates that Covid's IFR in the pre-vaccine era was under 0.1% for those under 70even lower than previously believed.

    Dr. Ioannidis et. al. found that across 31 national seroprevalence studies in the pre-vaccine era, the median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.003% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.129% at 50-59 years, and 0.501% at 60-69 years. This comes out to 0.035% for those aged 0-59 and 0.095% for those aged 0-69.

    ---------
    Wow, so glad we destroyed the economy, permanently impaired the learning of a generation of children, and forced them to take experimental therapies that have side effects and have no long term safety data. Brilliant


    I think it is still pretty high for those above 39. 1/2500 or so is still a decent fatality rate for such an infectious disease. 30-39 is borderline but under 30 is extremely rare. It was a deadly disease.
    Ioannidis is a crank who was incredibly wrong about COVID and has never acknowledged it. I have no idea whether his new study is reasonable or not but back of the envelope math says that about 0.3% of all Americans have died of COVID in the last 2.5 years and some number less than 100% of Americans have had COVID. I suppose that a number of people have had COVID more than once but to my knowledge no one has died more than once.

    Here's a perspective on John I:

    Quote:

    But instead of evolving their position based on new data, some, instead, keep trying to show how they were still right in early 2020, digging themselves an even deeper hole. A case in point is Stanford professor John Ioannidis, who, in March 2020, argued that governments were overreacting to the threat of Covid. He mocked those who worried that the "68 deaths from Covid-19 in the US as of 16 March will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000". He estimated that the US might suffer only 10,000 deaths. He also was cynical that vaccines or treatments could be developed in any timeframe that would affect the trajectory of the pandemic.

    Two years later, the current US death toll stands at 969,000, with almost 250,000 of those being people under 65. These numbers would have once been seen as outlandish. In addition, in less than a year we had developed safe and effective vaccines and a year after that, safe and effective antivirals. One would expect these facts to prompt an academic to reconsider their initial assumptions but instead, Ioannidis has continued to publish articles solidifying his starting position.

    Why is this the case? Why can't academics just admit that they might have got their assumptions wrong at the start, or reassess their positions? I think it's a mix of playing to a fanbase that has formed over two years (in this case, an anti-lockdown, "Covid-as-flu" base), and the idea that moving with new data is a sign of backtracking and weakness, instead of the basic scientific virtue of reflection and re-analysis. The overall need is to be proven "right" for oneself and a small group of followers, rather than right for society.


    In any event, I think the main point to note about the crazy stuff Zipperhate is posting is that he makes no attempt to ever present a reasonable apples to apples analysis. He talks about all of the spooky potential risks of vaccines but only recognizes COVID deaths (and even there he just flat out denies reality and says he doesn't believe the data). If you are going to pretend to care about the potential risks of "untested" vaccines, we should also pretend to care about the potential risks of "untested" novel viruses. A study came out recently claiming tat as many as half of all COVID infections result in some sort of long-term problems. That sounds ... not great to me. I think the main reason it's not true any more is because the vaccines have had an impact.

    I suspect that we are going to see fewer long-term impacts from the "milder" variants like Omicron, but that is certainly not something we should have taken for granted when YOLO people like Ionnaidis were telling everyone to just ignore COVID. I know people who've had some really rough outcomes from COVID but yet to meet anyone who has had worse than a day or two of discomfort from a vaccine.

    If we had listened to Ionnaidis, we would probably have 2-3M dead Americans, our economy would be in even bigger shambles and we would be an even larger pariah on the world stage. The vaccines probably saved 10s of millions of lives worldwide and allowed societies to continue to function relatively close to peak productivity while minimizing the risks of doing so. The vaccines aren't perfect but I haven't seen anything to argue that they are better than the alternative.

    Michael Leavit said it best: "Everything we do before a pandemic will seem alarmist. Everything we do after a pandemic will seem inadequate. This is the dilemma we face, but it should not stop us from doing what we can to prepare."

    We have now reached the weird place where we clearly didn't do enough but you have some people (like Zipperhate) claiming that we did too much and ignoring how much we've lost.

    sycasey
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    movielover said:

    oski003 said:

    Zippergate said:

    A new study on Covid-19's infection fatality rate (IFR) by age from a team led by Dr. John Ioannidis, the world's most-cited physician, estimates that Covid's IFR in the pre-vaccine era was under 0.1% for those under 70even lower than previously believed.

    Dr. Ioannidis et. al. found that across 31 national seroprevalence studies in the pre-vaccine era, the median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.003% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.129% at 50-59 years, and 0.501% at 60-69 years. This comes out to 0.035% for those aged 0-59 and 0.095% for those aged 0-69.

    ---------
    Wow, so glad we destroyed the economy, permanently impaired the learning of a generation of children, and forced them to take experimental therapies that have side effects and have no long term safety data. Brilliant


    I think it is still pretty high for those above 39. 1/2500 or so is still a decent fatality rate for such an infectious disease. 30-39 is borderline but under 30 is extremely rare. It was a deadly disease.


    It was generally a deadly disease for those who typically were older, and had multiple co morbidities. Diabetes, pneumonia, high blood pressure, and morbid obesity - with Covid on top. Often over 70 or 80. As one doctor said at the time, "They weren't at deaths door, they had one foot through the threshold."

    That was in 2020. I believe there are now reports that there are an increased number of young people dying from or with Covid, which is counter intuitive. Herd immunity up; as the virus mutates, it weakens; the most sick and elderly have already died; what, over 100M vaccinated; and doctors and hospitals knowledgeable and with tools. The deaths should have dropped.

    Deaths HAVE dropped. You might be reading about a higher PERCENTAGE of young people dying of Covid, because the virus has already run through much of the older and vulnerable population and/or fewer young people have gotten vaccinated.
    bearister
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    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.
    Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
    Send my credentials to the House of Detention
    I got some friends inside
    oski003
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    bearister said:

    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.


    What do healthcare workers worldwide and covid precautions in Asia have to do with this conversation? How am I overtaxing the healthcare system? Personally, I wore masks indoors up until about six months ago. I wash my hands, use sanitizer after shaking hands, and are generally more careful than ever. I also encouraged all my employees to get vaccinated but did not mandate it. Almost all are in the range where the vax makes complete sense and this was all before Omicron.

    I got vaccinated and then boosted and finally got covid three months after my booster. I was sick for five days and had a very nasty painful cough for two of them. I didn't feel great for about 60 days when exercising even just a little after second shot, but feel fine now and didn't have more than a 16 hour flu like effect after shots 1 and 3.

    There is always the risk that the stuff I share will reinforce anti-vax beliefs. However, there is always the risk that Moderna and Pfizer will get their shots mandated in elementary schools and hide behind liability shields and make $$$$ while they hire ex heads of the FDA weeks after they approve their vaccines.
    movielover
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    bearister said:

    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.


    Please explain many countries in Africa who have low vaxx rates and very low Covid infection rates, and death rates. More specifically, those who took Ivermectin for river blindness had a very low Covid infection rate. (They also have low obesity rates, and high Vitamin D uptake (the sun).)

    I recall some of the first times I heard about the "Military Industrial Complex", and now it seems we have "Big Pharma".
    BearNIt
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    bearister said:

    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.
    It's always sad to see patients in the ICU who have not been vaccinated and now suffer the consequences of the lack of action as they struggle to breathe with that wide-eyed look of terror but that time it's too late, it's up to a higher power as to whether you survive. The staff will try their best but resources at a hospital are finite as we saw in the early stages of the pandemic. The biggest issue is the staff that spends the most time with the patients trying to keep them alive long enough so that the patient might recover. Nurses are quitting in droves and you can't create them out of thin air. It takes time to educate and get experience in order for a nurse to be competent enough to handle the type of issues that arise when caring for COVID patients. They will never say this but the staff works harder trying to save those who at least made some sort of effort to protect themselves.
    Zippergate
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    The face of evil. I'm sure U2S will feel so much safer.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-cdc-moves-to-add-covid-vaccine-to-child-immunization-schedule-for-federal-programs

    A reminder that to my knowledge, not a single American has received a dose of an FDA-approved vaccine.


    SCIENCE in 2022
    movielover
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    Over 2 years in, where are the studies?
    Eastern Oregon Bear
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    Zippergate said:


    A reminder that to my knowledge, not a single American has received a dose of an FDA-approved vaccine.


    SCIENCE in 2022


    Nonsense. Millions of people receive an FDA approved vaccine each year.
    Zippergate
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    Eastern Oregon Bear said:

    Zippergate said:


    A reminder that to my knowledge, not a single American has received a dose of an FDA-approved vaccine.


    SCIENCE in 2022


    Nonsense. Millions of people receive an FDA approved vaccine each year.
    You are, of course, correct. I meant to say that no American has received an FDA-approved COVID vaccine. Actually, I'm glad you noted that because it reminded me to make an important point.

    The FDA approved Comirnaty which is supposedly the same as the BioNtech Pfizer gene therapy, but Pfizer only sells the EUA version. Why is that? The "approval" was just a cynical ploy to give the Pharma Industrial Complex cover to force the vaxxine on everyone while at the same time shielding manufacturers from liability under the protection of the EUA. Now that the vaxxines are on the child vaccine schedule, that is no longer important. Pfizer will have full immunity from liability. That's why this decision was made today. Well, that and the mega profits Pfizer will make selling vaccines year after year to the government for every child who attends public school. And all medical experts who made this possible, the pigs at the pharma grant trough, will be swimming in grant money.
    Unit2Sucks
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    Zippergate said:

    Eastern Oregon Bear said:

    Zippergate said:


    A reminder that to my knowledge, not a single American has received a dose of an FDA-approved vaccine.


    SCIENCE in 2022


    Nonsense. Millions of people receive an FDA approved vaccine each year.
    You are, of course, correct. I meant to say that no American has received an FDA-approved COVID vaccine. Actually, I'm glad you noted that because it reminded me to make an important point.

    The FDA approved Comirnaty which is supposedly the same as the BioNtech Pfizer gene therapy, but Pfizer only sells the EUA version. Why is that? The "approval" was just a cynical ploy to give the Pharma Industrial Complex cover to force the vaxxine on everyone while at the same time shielding manufacturers from liability under the protection of the EUA. Now that the vaxxines are on the child vaccine schedule, that is no longer important. Pfizer will have full immunity from liability. That's why this decision was made today. Well, that and the mega profits Pfizer will make selling vaccines year after year to the government for every child who attends public school. And all medical experts who made this possible, the pigs at the pharma grant trough, will be swimming in grant money.
    Zipperhate thinks this is his checkmate move but, once again, this is all a fantasy. He has predictably fallen for laughably false misinformation. Even Robert Malone, his sainted genius, who was one of the first people to spread this idiotic rumor has acknowledged that it was false and based on a misunderstanding.

    I am not going to bother rehashing why he is wrong in detail, because he is allergic to facts and will just ignore it any way, but if anyone is interested what these idiots are talking about when they make these claims, here you go. I have no doubt that ZH and other idiots will continue to make this false claim again and again thinking that it proves something (other than their anti-vax radicalization), but this is the last time I'm going to respond to this non-issue.

    Quote:


    Malone quickly conceded his statement on the Bannon show was wrong. "When one is doing rapid analysis on the fly, one does not always get everything right," he told The Fact Checker. "On this particular legal liability issue I did not hunt down the details myself, and relied on comments from a third party lawyer which were not fully correct." He said the statements we received from Pfizer and HHS "are consistent with my current understanding."

    ...

    Indeed, contrary to the claims of Malone and others, the Comirnaty vaccine has the same liability protection as the vaccine approved under the EUA. That's because of a law known as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).

    In early 2020, after the coronavirus emerged, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar invoked the PREP Act to "provide liability immunity for activities related to medical countermeasures against covid-19." So that covers all vaccines that might be produced to combat the coronavirus, whether fully authorized or not.

    The PREP Act designation means that claims related to coronavirus vaccines are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP), not the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), which was set up to handle vaccine lawsuits.



    Zippergate
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    So why isn't Comirnaty available?
    Regardless, do you think the decision made today was based on sound science?
    Do you think there vaxxcines are in the best interests of the children who will be forced to receive them?
    oski003
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    Unit2Sucks said:

    Zippergate said:

    Eastern Oregon Bear said:

    Zippergate said:


    A reminder that to my knowledge, not a single American has received a dose of an FDA-approved vaccine.


    SCIENCE in 2022


    Nonsense. Millions of people receive an FDA approved vaccine each year.
    You are, of course, correct. I meant to say that no American has received an FDA-approved COVID vaccine. Actually, I'm glad you noted that because it reminded me to make an important point.

    The FDA approved Comirnaty which is supposedly the same as the BioNtech Pfizer gene therapy, but Pfizer only sells the EUA version. Why is that? The "approval" was just a cynical ploy to give the Pharma Industrial Complex cover to force the vaxxine on everyone while at the same time shielding manufacturers from liability under the protection of the EUA. Now that the vaxxines are on the child vaccine schedule, that is no longer important. Pfizer will have full immunity from liability. That's why this decision was made today. Well, that and the mega profits Pfizer will make selling vaccines year after year to the government for every child who attends public school. And all medical experts who made this possible, the pigs at the pharma grant trough, will be swimming in grant money.
    Zipperhate thinks this is his checkmate move but, once again, this is all a fantasy. He has predictably fallen for laughably false misinformation. Even Robert Malone, his sainted genius, who was one of the first people to spread this idiotic rumor has acknowledged that it was false and based on a misunderstanding.

    I am not going to bother rehashing why he is wrong in detail, because he is allergic to facts and will just ignore it any way, but if anyone is interested what these idiots are talking about when they make these claims, here you go. I have no doubt that ZH and other idiots will continue to make this false claim again and again thinking that it proves something (other than their anti-vax radicalization), but this is the last time I'm going to respond to this non-issue.

    Quote:


    Malone quickly conceded his statement on the Bannon show was wrong. "When one is doing rapid analysis on the fly, one does not always get everything right," he told The Fact Checker. "On this particular legal liability issue I did not hunt down the details myself, and relied on comments from a third party lawyer which were not fully correct." He said the statements we received from Pfizer and HHS "are consistent with my current understanding."

    ...

    Indeed, contrary to the claims of Malone and others, the Comirnaty vaccine has the same liability protection as the vaccine approved under the EUA. That's because of a law known as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).

    In early 2020, after the coronavirus emerged, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar invoked the PREP Act to "provide liability immunity for activities related to medical countermeasures against covid-19." So that covers all vaccines that might be produced to combat the coronavirus, whether fully authorized or not.

    The PREP Act designation means that claims related to coronavirus vaccines are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP), not the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), which was set up to handle vaccine lawsuits.






    Who pays for successful claims under the CICP? Is there a cap on damages? Can Pfizer directly be sued for a vaccine injury under the non branded vax?
    calpoly
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    movielover said:

    bearister said:

    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.


    Please explain many countries in Africa who have low vaxx rates and very low Covid infection rates, and death rates. More specifically, those who took Ivermectin for river blindness had a very low Covid infection rate. (They also have low obesity rates, and high Vitamin D uptake (the sun).)

    I recall some of the first times I heard about the "Military Industrial Complex", and now it seems we have "Big Pharma".
    Go ahead and take the horse de-wormer. While you are at it, please stick a laser up your a$$ and drink bleach. Then we will not have to listen to your bull**** anymore.
    oski003
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    calpoly said:

    movielover said:

    bearister said:

    No mention of healthcare workers worldwide who had to staff overflowing ER's and got burned out, got sick and died.

    If you don't take the safety precautions recommended by Mayo Clinic, Harvard Medical School, Stanford Medical School and UCSF, and least have the common courtesy to go into an alley way and die like a dog and not overtax the healthcare system. Make your choice. Don't be a p@ussy. You gotta commit….and if you get Long Covid and blew off precautions, quit whining and go f@uck yourself.

    *Also you need to lay out in detail why you guys are so much smarter than the people in Asia that take Covid precautions seriously.


    Please explain many countries in Africa who have low vaxx rates and very low Covid infection rates, and death rates. More specifically, those who took Ivermectin for river blindness had a very low Covid infection rate. (They also have low obesity rates, and high Vitamin D uptake (the sun).)

    I recall some of the first times I heard about the "Military Industrial Complex", and now it seems we have "Big Pharma".
    Go ahead and take the horse de-wormer. While you are at it, please stick a laser up your a$$ and drink bleach. Then we will not have to listen to your bull**** anymore.


    Why would he take a horse dewormer, stick a laser up his butt or drink bleach? Why don't you just avoid this topic if you can't handle the discourse?
    movielover
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    Overall, total sales potential of $300 Billion?
    movielover
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    Deflection by name calling. What flavor is your Koolaid?
    Eastern Oregon Bear
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    movielover said:

    Deflection by name calling. What flavor is your Koolaid?
    Where did he call you a name? I just see suggestions that you use the various "folk" medications for Covid the unscrupulous have been pushing. The laser treatment is a new one for me though.
    Zippergate
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    Quote:

    Go ahead and take the horse de-wormer. While you are at it, please stick a laser up your a$$ and drink bleach. Then we will not have to listen to your bull**** anymore.
    It's comments like these that cause me to doubt whether the republic can continue to exist. Such ignorance expressed with absolute certainty and utter contempt for other viewpoints.
     
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