Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

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dimitrig
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I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.

GivemTheAxe
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dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.




Since other posters (who have boasted of little or no official medical or scientific training) are putting in their "two cents", I will do so myself.

Maybe the strength of the vaccine is a good thing and has provided people vaccinated with unexpected protections. We have heard many reports that the current vaccines are effective against a number of the variants that have been spreading throughout the US and other parts of the world. In particular the current vaccines are particularly effective against the P1 variant from Brazil which IIRC is predicted to become the dominant strain of COVID in the US because it is much more contagious than the original strain of COVID.

It was based upon fear of these new variants that had led many experts to predict a possible new wave of COVID cases (or spike in COVID cases) this coming Fall.

So maybe the strength of the current vaccine will protect us against a new wave/spike of COVID in the Fall.
(Hey my uneducated guess is just as good as good as many of the other uneducated guesses I am reading in this board.)

And since this is a Cal Football board, I want to emphasize that maybe the current vaccine will allow us to enjoy the thing we all love - watching our beloved Golden Bears in person at Memorial Stadium.

So I say again: Vax up and get your game day gear together. Go Bears!

(BTW if some are relying on herd immunity and not the vaccine to protect you against the variants, remember that there are people from all over the US and the world who come to Cal and the SF Bay Area. An unvaccinated fan might be sitting right behind you yelling all game long. Herd immunity would not protect you under those conditions.)
Unit2Sucks
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dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.




Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

So, if someone criticizes Wilcox, they are obligated to also post all the good things he does?
No. But if someone consistently and constantly posts negative opinions about him and never acknowledges the big wins he's had, I would start to think that person had an agenda against Wilcox. They're not obligated to do anything, but nor am I obligated to take them seriously or refrain from criticizing them.
dimitrig
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Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.

My SO wants to be tested for the COVID antibodies before she gets the vaccine.

The data shows that even after the first dose of the vaccine your body has a certain level of antibodies. That level is less than that of people who contracted COVID. After the second dose of the vaccine the antibodies are higher than even someone who had COVID. That is why the second dose is recommended and part of the reason why even people who have had COVID are recommended to be vaccinated.

I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did. My 20something nephew had nose bleeds after the first dose. He hasn't taken the second dose yet. A coworker of mine also had a runny nose and gastrointestinal upset for a few days after the first dose.

Now, I realize that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but lots of organizations are letting people take a vaccine sick day. The VA is granting two sick days. I think that fatigue, joint pain, fever, and/or chills are pretty much expected but there is a potential for other side effects as well.

I am not saying that I won't get the 2nd dose, but I am in no mood to get it after just finally feeling like myself. I've read that you can wait up to 6 weeks after the first dose, but if I had to guess based on other vaccines I'd say that it doesn't really matter too much and those dates are somewhat arbitrary.

Robert M. Wachter (Chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California at San Francisco) wrote in the Washington Post that there is good reason to believe that even an 8 or 12 week delay between first and second doses of the vaccine is probably fine for most people. Will that reduce the side effects? There's a good chance it might, because waiting longer between doses has had that impact with other 2 dose vaccines.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that we don't really know the long-term efficacy nor side effects of these vaccines. They have been deemed "safe enough" to give to millions of people and it is probably the right thing to do given the situation but I do feel like we're all in one big clinical trial right now.







GivemTheAxe
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dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.

My SO wants to be tested for the COVID antibodies before she gets the vaccine.

The data shows that even after the first dose of the vaccine your body has a certain level of antibodies. That level is less than that of people who contracted COVID. After the second dose of the vaccine the antibodies are higher than even someone who had COVID. That is why the second dose is recommended and part of the reason why even people who have had COVID are recommended to be vaccinated.

I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did. My 20something nephew had nose bleeds after the first dose. He hasn't taken the second dose yet. A coworker of mine also had a runny nose and gastrointestinal upset for a few days after the first dose.

Now, I realize that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but lots of organizations are letting people take a vaccine sick day. The VA is granting two sick days. I think that fatigue, joint pain, fever, and/or chills are pretty much expected but there is a potential for other side effects as well.

I am not saying that I won't get the 2nd dose, but I am in no mood to get it after just finally feeling like myself. I've read that you can wait up to 6 weeks after the first dose, but if I had to guess based on other vaccines I'd say that it doesn't really matter too much and those dates are somewhat arbitrary.

Robert M. Wachter (Chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California at San Francisco) wrote in the Washington Post that there is good reason to believe that even an 8 or 12 week delay between first and second doses of the vaccine is probably fine for most people. Will that reduce the side effects? There's a good chance it might, because waiting longer between doses has had that impact with other 2 dose vaccines.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that we don't really know the long-term efficacy nor side effects of these vaccines. They have been deemed "safe enough" to give to millions of people and it is probably the right thing to do given the situation but I do feel like we're all in one big clinical trial right now.









I have had both shots. After the second shot I had the commonly reported symptoms. Very tired. Aches In my joints and the typical early feelings of the flu. But they lasted no more than three days.

IMO that discomfort was worth the resulting protection since it has been reported that receiving only one shot provides only limited protection something in the range of 65% as compared to 95% if fully vaccinated.

To me 65% is not nearly enough . Especially not when I live in a city with relatively dense population where the population comes into contact with people from all over the US and the world. There is a logical reason why COVID exploded in NYC, LA, SF Bay Area and other major high-travel metropolitan areas before spreading to other localities.

At first, my wife was not too sure about taking the vaccine. She later agreed to have the shots when I pointed out that until we were both vaccinated I was not going to feel comfortable going any where there were large groups of people (movie theaters football stadiums) or taking our annual (except for 2020) cross-country drive to see family and friends on the East Coast.
Unit2Sucks
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dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.


I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did.

I find this very curious because it's so different from the people I've spoken to. How many people have you talked to? Do you think it's possible that the people who've had reactions are more vocal? Is this coming from social media? I asked my wife and she knows some people who had bad reactions but when it comes up it's typically someone saying they had a bad reaction. When people ask (which is rare) whether I had a reaction I tell them, but I don't volunteer the information because there's no reason for me to raise it in the real world.

Every report I've seen shows (see here for King's college) is at odds with what you are hearing from your community with the exception of people who already had COVID, who are 3x as likely to suffer whole-body side effects than those who haven't.

Anyway, not saying your facts are wrong for the group you know about, but that absent other factors, it would appear to be an outlier.
GivemTheAxe
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Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.


I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did.

I find this very curious because it's so different from the people I've spoken to. How many people have you talked to? Do you think it's possible that the people who've had reactions are more vocal? Is this coming from social media? I asked my wife and she knows some people who had bad reactions but when it comes up it's typically someone saying they had a bad reaction. When people ask (which is rare) whether I had a reaction I tell them, but I don't volunteer the information because there's no reason for me to raise it in the real world.

Every report I've seen shows (see here for King's college) is at odds with what you are hearing from your community with the exception of people who already had COVID, who are 3x as likely to suffer whole-body side effects than those who haven't.

Anyway, not saying your facts are wrong for the group you know about, but that absent other factors, it would appear to be an outlier.


Same here. Almost Everyone I know and have discussed this topic has had the same experience that I had. Very tired. aches in the joints. Flu-like symptoms. All disappeared within 3 days.

(OK I will admit that i bragged about being vaccinated. That elicited their comments.)

The only person who had a bad reaction was an acquaintance who said he had heart palpitations following the vaccination. But a few months ago (before being vaccinated) he told me that he had gone into the hospital to have his heart checked out. So IMO his post vaccination heart palpitations could have been a recurrence of a prior problem. Or maybe not
Unit2Sucks
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GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.


I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did.

I find this very curious because it's so different from the people I've spoken to. How many people have you talked to? Do you think it's possible that the people who've had reactions are more vocal? Is this coming from social media? I asked my wife and she knows some people who had bad reactions but when it comes up it's typically someone saying they had a bad reaction. When people ask (which is rare) whether I had a reaction I tell them, but I don't volunteer the information because there's no reason for me to raise it in the real world.

Every report I've seen shows (see here for King's college) is at odds with what you are hearing from your community with the exception of people who already had COVID, who are 3x as likely to suffer whole-body side effects than those who haven't.

Anyway, not saying your facts are wrong for the group you know about, but that absent other factors, it would appear to be an outlier.


Same here. Almost Everyone I know and have discussed this topic has had the same experience that I had. Very tired. aches in the joints. Flu-like symptoms. All disappeared within 3 days.

(OK I will admit that i bragged about being vaccinated. That elicited their comments.)

The only person who had a bad reaction was an acquaintance who said he had heart palpitations following the vaccination. But a few months ago (before being vaccinated) he told me that he had gone into the hospital to have his heart checked out. So IMO his post vaccination heart palpitations could have been a recurrence of a prior problem. Or maybe not
Ok maybe there's a disconnect. I thought that 3 days of flu-like symptoms would be considered a whole-body side effect. When I talk about "bad reactions" I'm generally talking about what you experienced. The only person I've heard of who had a really bad reaction is someone who was hospitalized for COVID and then reacted so strongly to the vaccine was forced to go back to the hospital (not sure what exactly her symptoms were but she didn't actually need any treatment). She eventually decided to get the second dose and for whatever reason her reaction wasn't quite as bad.

When I'm talking about not having a bad reaction, I mean basically no symptoms other than pain at the injection site. As an example, I had planned to cool it on physical activity in the days following my second jab, but felt fine so I carried on with my normal activities (in this case, mountain biking).
Big C
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I thought the reporting was that, outside of soreness at the injection site, about half the people had no or little reaction. After my second Pfizer, this is what I had, i.e. not much. Too bad, as I had set the day aside to be miserable.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.



Interesting that you had such a strong reaction to the first dose. Sorry to hear about your experience. Do you think it's possible you may have already had COVID? You are from SoCal right?

Not to say that your anecdotal experience isn't accurate for your circle, but my anecdata is totally different. Other than my (obese and generally unhealthy) sister in law, no one I know had a particularly strong reaction to either dose. My wife was pretty tired and feverish for ~24 hours or so after the second dose. I had no symptoms nor did my brother or sister - all young and healthy.

Given that over 100 million people have been jabbed, of course there is actual data out there but just wanted to note that I was surprised that you seem to think that bad reactions is so universal.

I think for people who have had COVID, it may be the case that the second jab is wholly unnecessary. And of course there Is a question of how much benefit the first dose even has for people who have were previously infected. Of course I'm not a doctor and no one should take anything I say as gospel. Everyone should talk to their doctor.

It is possible I had COVID. I don't know. I don't THINK I did, but you can have it and be asymptomatic.


I know only a single person under 60 (my sister in her 50s) who did not have an adverse reaction to the 2nd dose of vaccine. Very few people had a reaction to the first dose, but a couple did.

I find this very curious because it's so different from the people I've spoken to. How many people have you talked to? Do you think it's possible that the people who've had reactions are more vocal? Is this coming from social media? I asked my wife and she knows some people who had bad reactions but when it comes up it's typically someone saying they had a bad reaction. When people ask (which is rare) whether I had a reaction I tell them, but I don't volunteer the information because there's no reason for me to raise it in the real world.

Every report I've seen shows (see here for King's college) is at odds with what you are hearing from your community with the exception of people who already had COVID, who are 3x as likely to suffer whole-body side effects than those who haven't.

Anyway, not saying your facts are wrong for the group you know about, but that absent other factors, it would appear to be an outlier.


Same here. Almost Everyone I know and have discussed this topic has had the same experience that I had. Very tired. aches in the joints. Flu-like symptoms. All disappeared within 3 days.

(OK I will admit that i bragged about being vaccinated. That elicited their comments.)

The only person who had a bad reaction was an acquaintance who said he had heart palpitations following the vaccination. But a few months ago (before being vaccinated) he told me that he had gone into the hospital to have his heart checked out. So IMO his post vaccination heart palpitations could have been a recurrence of a prior problem. Or maybe not
Ok maybe there's a disconnect. I thought that 3 days of flu-like symptoms would be considered a whole-body side effect. When I talk about "bad reactions" I'm generally talking about what you experienced. The only person I've heard of who had a really bad reaction is someone who was hospitalized for COVID and then reacted so strongly to the vaccine was forced to go back to the hospital (not sure what exactly her symptoms were but she didn't actually need any treatment). She eventually decided to get the second dose and for whatever reason her reaction wasn't quite as bad.

When I'm talking about not having a bad reaction, I mean basically no symptoms other than pain at the injection site. As an example, I had planned to cool it on physical activity in the days following my second jab, but felt fine so I carried on with my normal activities (in this case, mountain biking).


This is my perception as well. I only know two people that had serious side effects, one being mrna but had covid and the vaccine put her in the hospital (she fully recovered) and the other was sick for two days post jnj and saw a doctor (still has some medical issues but likely not vaccine related).

I thought feeling like crap for 1-3 days was at least a moderate side effect, which seems to be what most people experience. I felt like crap for one day after second shot.
dimitrig
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oski003 said:




This is my perception as well. I only know two people that had serious side effects, one being mrna but had covid and the vaccine put her in the hospital (she fully recovered) and the other was sick for two days post jnj and saw a doctor (still has some medical issues but likely not vaccine related).

I thought feeling like crap for 1-3 days was at least a moderate side effect, which seems to be what most people experience. I felt like crap for one day after second shot.

Here is the disconnect:

I don't find "Very tired, aches in the joints, and flu-like symptoms for 3 days" to be only a minor side effect.

Technically, I suppose it is in the grand scheme of things versus, say, being hospitalized, but to me that's a big deal. I felt sick for a week after the first shot. I wasn't so sick I missed any work (although my productivity did suffer a little bit) but I was sick. It's worrisome when you're sick and you've just taken a vaccine that was rushed through trials. If the second shot is supposed to be worse then I don't know what to think except that I need to be 100% before I go do that. I was talking to a nutritionist (who herself has only had the first shot) who said that a lot of her clients are "preparing" for the vaccine by taking supplements, reducing alcohol intake, hydrating, etc.

Like I said earlier, the ONLY people I know who did not have ANY side effects other than a sore arm (duh!) are all over 60 except my sister and she is closer to 60 than 50. Every other person I know who got fully vaccinated had side effects including fever, joint pain, headache, runny nose, extreme fatigue, and sometimes even more than that. Usually, it resolved in a day. Sometimes, it took two or three days - or even longer. A have a friend whose sister is having "female issues" and her doctor advised her that it may be related to the vaccine.

I think as more young people take the vaccine it will come out that there are more side effects than we were led to believe and it will be altered to be safer and more effective with fewer side effects. That said, I wouldn't sit around waiting for 2 years for that to happen at my age, but if I was young and healthy - and especially if I was a woman thinking about getting pregnant - I might think twice about it.



GivemTheAxe
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dimitrig said:

oski003 said:




This is my perception as well. I only know two people that had serious side effects, one being mrna but had covid and the vaccine put her in the hospital (she fully recovered) and the other was sick for two days post jnj and saw a doctor (still has some medical issues but likely not vaccine related).

I thought feeling like crap for 1-3 days was at least a moderate side effect, which seems to be what most people experience. I felt like crap for one day after second shot.

Here is the disconnect:

I don't find "Very tired, aches in the joints, and flu-like symptoms for 3 days" to be only a minor side effect.

Technically, I suppose it is in the grand scheme of things versus, say, being hospitalized, but to me that's a big deal. I felt sick for a week after the first shot. I wasn't so sick I missed any work (although my productivity did suffer a little bit) but I was sick. It's worrisome when you're sick and you've just taken a vaccine that was rushed through trials. If the second shot is supposed to be worse then I don't know what to think except that I need to be 100% before I go do that. I was talking to a nutritionist (who herself has only had the first shot) who said that a lot of her clients are "preparing" for the vaccine by taking supplements, reducing alcohol intake, hydrating, etc.

Like I said earlier, the ONLY people I know who did not have ANY side effects other than a sore arm (duh!) are all over 60 except my sister and she is closer to 60 than 50. Every other person I know who got fully vaccinated had side effects including fever, joint pain, headache, runny nose, extreme fatigue, and sometimes even more than that. Usually, it resolved in a day. Sometimes, it took two or three days - or even longer. A have a friend whose sister is having "female issues" and her doctor advised her that it may be related to the vaccine.

I think as more young people take the vaccine it will come out that there are more side effects than we were led to believe and it will be altered to be safer and more effective with fewer side effects. That said, I wouldn't sit around waiting for 2 years for that to happen at my age, but if I was young and healthy - and especially if I was a woman thinking about getting pregnant - I might think twice about it.





Three thoughts.
1. I have had ordinary annual flu shots that had worse side effects than my second COVID shot. Some of those shots I felt caused some of the worst cases of flu that I have ever had. The explanation I got from Kaiser was, well you probably caught the flu waiting in line to get your shot. The shot didn't have time to get into your system fast enough to provide the protection sought.

2. I have talked to a large number of people of different ages comparing my experience with their experiences. Only one felt there was more than average difficulties. That person I know had reported similar symptoms to me BEFORE he had had the COVID shot.

3. My daughter in law is pregnant and has decided (based upon advice from her pediatrician) not to get the shot. Her pediatrician said there probably would not be a problem but why take the chance of introducing a foreign substance into her blood stream that wasn't there before when she is in the middle of her pregnancy. To me that is a rational decision.
However it means that she wears a mask and maintains social distance and can't take part in any family gatherings of more than a few people (let alone any public gatherings). To me those are also rational decisions.
calumnus
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GivemTheAxe said:

dimitrig said:

oski003 said:




This is my perception as well. I only know two people that had serious side effects, one being mrna but had covid and the vaccine put her in the hospital (she fully recovered) and the other was sick for two days post jnj and saw a doctor (still has some medical issues but likely not vaccine related).

I thought feeling like crap for 1-3 days was at least a moderate side effect, which seems to be what most people experience. I felt like crap for one day after second shot.

Here is the disconnect:

I don't find "Very tired, aches in the joints, and flu-like symptoms for 3 days" to be only a minor side effect.

Technically, I suppose it is in the grand scheme of things versus, say, being hospitalized, but to me that's a big deal. I felt sick for a week after the first shot. I wasn't so sick I missed any work (although my productivity did suffer a little bit) but I was sick. It's worrisome when you're sick and you've just taken a vaccine that was rushed through trials. If the second shot is supposed to be worse then I don't know what to think except that I need to be 100% before I go do that. I was talking to a nutritionist (who herself has only had the first shot) who said that a lot of her clients are "preparing" for the vaccine by taking supplements, reducing alcohol intake, hydrating, etc.

Like I said earlier, the ONLY people I know who did not have ANY side effects other than a sore arm (duh!) are all over 60 except my sister and she is closer to 60 than 50. Every other person I know who got fully vaccinated had side effects including fever, joint pain, headache, runny nose, extreme fatigue, and sometimes even more than that. Usually, it resolved in a day. Sometimes, it took two or three days - or even longer. A have a friend whose sister is having "female issues" and her doctor advised her that it may be related to the vaccine.

I think as more young people take the vaccine it will come out that there are more side effects than we were led to believe and it will be altered to be safer and more effective with fewer side effects. That said, I wouldn't sit around waiting for 2 years for that to happen at my age, but if I was young and healthy - and especially if I was a woman thinking about getting pregnant - I might think twice about it.





Three thoughts.
1. I have had ordinary annual flu shots that had worse side effects than my second COVID shot. Some of those shots I felt caused some of the worst cases of flu that I have ever had. The explanation I got from Kaiser was, well you probably caught the flu waiting in line to get your shot. The shot didn't have time to get into your system fast enough to provide the protection sought.

2. I have talked to a large number of people of different ages comparing my experience with their experiences. Only one felt there was more than average difficulties. That person I know had reported similar symptoms to me BEFORE he had had the COVID shot.

3. My daughter in law is pregnant and has decided (based upon advice from her pediatrician) not to get the shot. Her pediatrician said there probably would not be a problem but why take the chance of introducing a foreign substance into her blood stream that wasn't there before when she is in the middle of her pregnancy. To me that is a rational decision.
However it means that she wears a mask and maintains social distance and can't take part in any family gatherings of more than a few people (let alone any public gatherings). To me those are also rational decisions.


The "side effects" of a cold, the flu, and COVID like runny nose, coughing, fever, aches and pains, diarrhea, nausea, headaches....are all from your body's immune reaction to the virus, not the virus itself. It is your body trying to eliminate the virus. "Hay fever" and other allergies is your body reacting to pollen like it is a virus or bacterium. Thus, a vaccine that stimulates an immune response will often produce similar side effects. It is just your immune system kicking in, it is actually a good sign. Young people have strong immune systems, so it makes a sense they can have more symptoms from the vaccine. It also means they can have mild cases of COVID and spread it b cause their immune systems keep it from being full blown. It is actually when COVID spreads to the lungs and the body responds white blood cells and inflammation, phlegm and mucus that oxygen levels can drop, stress the heart and become life threatening (simplifying, there are direct impacts on the heart too, we are still learning all the impacts from the virus).

Over the counter cold and flu medications just suppresses the side effects. When you actually have a virus, they can be counterproductive, fever helps to fight the virus. If you are having symptoms from immune response to a vaccine that is not a concern so people should be advised to go ahead and take medications that will help them out.

My wife and I are under 60 by a few years and had no concrete symptoms from the vaccine (maybe we could imagine more aches and pains or fatigue in the AM than usual). However I do know a younger couple in their 30s that had a couple of days like having the flu.

The key is even though you may have normal immune response side effects from the vaccine, it is not going to create phlegm in your lungs (you do not inhale the vaccine, it is not airborne) like the actual virus could. It might be uncomfortable, but it shouldn't be life threatening except in very rare cases, and those cases are logically people who would fare far worse with the actual virus for the same reason.

And most importantly, with the vaccine you might feel bad for a few days, but you won't die and you won't pass on the virus to someone who will then die.
oski003
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calumnus said:

GivemTheAxe said:

dimitrig said:

oski003 said:




This is my perception as well. I only know two people that had serious side effects, one being mrna but had covid and the vaccine put her in the hospital (she fully recovered) and the other was sick for two days post jnj and saw a doctor (still has some medical issues but likely not vaccine related).

I thought feeling like crap for 1-3 days was at least a moderate side effect, which seems to be what most people experience. I felt like crap for one day after second shot.

Here is the disconnect:

I don't find "Very tired, aches in the joints, and flu-like symptoms for 3 days" to be only a minor side effect.

Technically, I suppose it is in the grand scheme of things versus, say, being hospitalized, but to me that's a big deal. I felt sick for a week after the first shot. I wasn't so sick I missed any work (although my productivity did suffer a little bit) but I was sick. It's worrisome when you're sick and you've just taken a vaccine that was rushed through trials. If the second shot is supposed to be worse then I don't know what to think except that I need to be 100% before I go do that. I was talking to a nutritionist (who herself has only had the first shot) who said that a lot of her clients are "preparing" for the vaccine by taking supplements, reducing alcohol intake, hydrating, etc.

Like I said earlier, the ONLY people I know who did not have ANY side effects other than a sore arm (duh!) are all over 60 except my sister and she is closer to 60 than 50. Every other person I know who got fully vaccinated had side effects including fever, joint pain, headache, runny nose, extreme fatigue, and sometimes even more than that. Usually, it resolved in a day. Sometimes, it took two or three days - or even longer. A have a friend whose sister is having "female issues" and her doctor advised her that it may be related to the vaccine.

I think as more young people take the vaccine it will come out that there are more side effects than we were led to believe and it will be altered to be safer and more effective with fewer side effects. That said, I wouldn't sit around waiting for 2 years for that to happen at my age, but if I was young and healthy - and especially if I was a woman thinking about getting pregnant - I might think twice about it.





Three thoughts.
1. I have had ordinary annual flu shots that had worse side effects than my second COVID shot. Some of those shots I felt caused some of the worst cases of flu that I have ever had. The explanation I got from Kaiser was, well you probably caught the flu waiting in line to get your shot. The shot didn't have time to get into your system fast enough to provide the protection sought.

2. I have talked to a large number of people of different ages comparing my experience with their experiences. Only one felt there was more than average difficulties. That person I know had reported similar symptoms to me BEFORE he had had the COVID shot.

3. My daughter in law is pregnant and has decided (based upon advice from her pediatrician) not to get the shot. Her pediatrician said there probably would not be a problem but why take the chance of introducing a foreign substance into her blood stream that wasn't there before when she is in the middle of her pregnancy. To me that is a rational decision.
However it means that she wears a mask and maintains social distance and can't take part in any family gatherings of more than a few people (let alone any public gatherings). To me those are also rational decisions.


The "side effects" of a cold, the flu, and COVID like runny nose, coughing, fever, aches and pains, diarrhea, nausea, headaches....are all from your body's immune reaction to the virus, not the virus itself. It is your body trying to eliminate the virus. "Hay fever" and other allergies is your body reacting to pollen like it is a virus or bacterium. Thus, a vaccine that stimulates an immune response will often produce similar side effects. It is just your immune system kicking in, it is actually a good sign. Young people have strong immune systems, so it makes a sense they can have more symptoms from the vaccine. It also means they can have mild cases of COVID and spread it b cause their immune systems keep it from being full blown. It is actually when COVID spreads to the lungs and the body responds white blood cells and inflammation, phlegm and mucus that oxygen levels can drop, stress the heart and become life threatening (simplifying, there are direct impacts on the heart too, we are still learning all the impacts from the virus).

Over the counter cold and flu medications just suppresses the side effects. When you actually have a virus, they can be counterproductive, fever helps to fight the virus. If you are having symptoms from immune response to a vaccine that is not a concern so people should be advised to go ahead and take medications that will help them out.

My wife and I are under 60 by a few years and had no concrete symptoms from the vaccine (maybe we could imagine more aches and pains or fatigue in the AM than usual). However I do know a younger couple in their 30s that had a couple of days like having the flu.

The key is even though you may have normal immune response side effects from the vaccine, it is not going to create phlegm in your lungs (you do not inhale the vaccine, it is not airborne) like the actual virus could. It might be uncomfortable, but it shouldn't be life threatening except in very rare cases, and those cases are logically people who would fare far worse with the actual virus for the same reason.

And most importantly, with the vaccine you might feel bad for a few days, but you won't die and you won't pass on the virus to someone who will then die.


Doesn't the body also react to the vaccine transport and adjuvants? Isn't this also what causes side effects?

Have any adenovirus vaccines (the tech of azn and jnj) been fda approved prior to covid? Have any mrna vaccines (the tech of moderna and pfizer? been fda approved prior to covid?

why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:


why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?


Please share with us proof that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis. Sharing every single story you can find to criticize the vaccines is one thing, but stating in an unqualified way that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis is something else. I'm not saying the MRNA vaccines don't cause or increase the risk of myocarditis in some individuals, but we can't yet say it definitively and,
most importantly, we don't know how common it is. 1 out of 1,000 is very different from 1 out of 100,000.

I believe there is a German preprint paper that claims a small tweak to the AZ vaccine will clear up the blood clot issue which, if true, is great news.
oski003
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Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
I'm in the camp of listening to the experts, not random people on the internet with an axe to grind. I don't know what your motivations are or what research you have really done, but it certainly appears you are on a campaign to discredit the current COVID vaccines.

I think myocarditis is actually quite common in adolescents and young adults and people are only writing stories about it when it happens to occur shortly after receiving a vaccine. I remember when similar stories started coming out last year around COVID (eg Jamain Stephens and Keyontae Johnson), the message from the COVID denier crowd was that there was not yet sufficient evidence to make a causal connection. What we learned in the last year is that not that many college athletes seemed to develop heart problems shortly following COVID, but that myocarditis did occasionally happen and that most of the time it wasn't severe. It wasn't that common for people to die or have serious lasting effects, as far as we know now, from myocarditis following COVID.

So, I guess I would say that I think there's a chance that the MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis and there is a chance that it's a serious concern, but there is also a chance that it's just a correlation or that there is causation but that it's not a serious concern because myocarditis is generally mild and clears up in a few weeks. You haven't provided any information to show that myocarditis is a reason that people should fear the MRNA vaccines, particularly given the risk of myocarditis from COVID itself.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
I'm in the camp of listening to the experts, not random people on the internet with an axe to grind. I don't know what your motivations are or what research you have really done, but it certainly appears you are on a campaign to discredit the current COVID vaccines.

I think myocarditis is actually quite common in adolescents and young adults and people are only writing stories about it when it happens to occur shortly after receiving a vaccine. I remember when similar stories started coming out last year around COVID (eg Jamain Stephens and Keyontae Johnson), the message from the COVID denier crowd was that there was not yet sufficient evidence to make a causal connection. What we learned in the last year is that not that many college athletes seemed to develop heart problems shortly following COVID, but that myocarditis did occasionally happen and that most of the time it wasn't severe. It wasn't that common for people to die or have serious lasting effects, as far as we know now, from myocarditis following COVID.

So, I guess I would say that I think there's a chance that the MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis and there is a chance that it's a serious concern, but there is also a chance that it's just a correlation or that there is causation but that it's not a serious concern because myocarditis is generally mild and clears up in a few weeks. You haven't provided any information to show that myocarditis is a reason that people should fear the MRNA vaccines, particularly given the risk of myocarditis from COVID itself.


I said why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?

You said please share with us proof that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis.

I responded. Then you posted the above. So, I ask you again. Do you think that mrna vaccines cause myocarditis?

I believe your true answer is, "Yes, but it is generally not serious, not as bad as covid, and a small price to pay for herd immunity.". Of course you cannot admit that the vaccines cause myocarditis being you are speaking like a lawyer/politician arguing a case.

Am I correct?

Again, My wife and I got the vaccine. I have two kids under the age of five. My youngest could wear a mask before turning two. I am weary of giving her one of the current vaccines. I do not trust that the CDC NIH and FDA are telling the truth here although they generally mean well. I believe they are using the ends justifies the means analysis, just like many on this board do.

I also truly believe that covid 19, at least currently, is easy to vaccinate against. However, due to the nature of the pandemic, the government rapidly advanced and prioritized highly effective mrna vaccines over vaccines that did not produce an abundance of neutralizing antibodies. I believe that the vaccines that were pushed aside are at least as effective as jnj (which is good enough) and a whole lot safer. I believe the mrna companies and jnj have now monopolized the us vaccine supply chain so that further vaccine development has been delayed and forced overseas.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
I'm in the camp of listening to the experts, not random people on the internet with an axe to grind. I don't know what your motivations are or what research you have really done, but it certainly appears you are on a campaign to discredit the current COVID vaccines.

I think myocarditis is actually quite common in adolescents and young adults and people are only writing stories about it when it happens to occur shortly after receiving a vaccine. I remember when similar stories started coming out last year around COVID (eg Jamain Stephens and Keyontae Johnson), the message from the COVID denier crowd was that there was not yet sufficient evidence to make a causal connection. What we learned in the last year is that not that many college athletes seemed to develop heart problems shortly following COVID, but that myocarditis did occasionally happen and that most of the time it wasn't severe. It wasn't that common for people to die or have serious lasting effects, as far as we know now, from myocarditis following COVID.

So, I guess I would say that I think there's a chance that the MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis and there is a chance that it's a serious concern, but there is also a chance that it's just a correlation or that there is causation but that it's not a serious concern because myocarditis is generally mild and clears up in a few weeks. You haven't provided any information to show that myocarditis is a reason that people should fear the MRNA vaccines, particularly given the risk of myocarditis from COVID itself.


I said why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?

You said please share with us proof that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis.

I responded. Then you posted the above. So, I ask you again. Do you think that mrna vaccines cause myocarditis?

I believe your true answer is, "Yes, but it is generally not serious, not as bad as covid, and a small price to pay for herd immunity.". Of course you cannot admit that the vaccines cause myocarditis being you are speaking like a lawyer/politician arguing a case.

Am I correct?


No you are not correct.

I pretty clearly stated that I said "there is a chance" with respect to a number of different scenarios. I have no idea how common myocarditis is post vaccine compared to gen pop and haven't seen any actual data around myocarditis. You don't know either nor have you seen any definitive data.

You are right that I'm fairly confident in the vaccine being safe and effective since I haven't seen anything to the contrary. 600k Americans have died of COVID and I'm not aware of a single person definitively dying from the vaccine.

The fact that people like you are spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt against vaccines is nothing new and not persuasive to me. I think it's proven to be dangerous as you can see from the recent data showing how COVID is still spreading amongst unvaccinated people.
calumnus
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
I'm in the camp of listening to the experts, not random people on the internet with an axe to grind. I don't know what your motivations are or what research you have really done, but it certainly appears you are on a campaign to discredit the current COVID vaccines.

I think myocarditis is actually quite common in adolescents and young adults and people are only writing stories about it when it happens to occur shortly after receiving a vaccine. I remember when similar stories started coming out last year around COVID (eg Jamain Stephens and Keyontae Johnson), the message from the COVID denier crowd was that there was not yet sufficient evidence to make a causal connection. What we learned in the last year is that not that many college athletes seemed to develop heart problems shortly following COVID, but that myocarditis did occasionally happen and that most of the time it wasn't severe. It wasn't that common for people to die or have serious lasting effects, as far as we know now, from myocarditis following COVID.

So, I guess I would say that I think there's a chance that the MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis and there is a chance that it's a serious concern, but there is also a chance that it's just a correlation or that there is causation but that it's not a serious concern because myocarditis is generally mild and clears up in a few weeks. You haven't provided any information to show that myocarditis is a reason that people should fear the MRNA vaccines, particularly given the risk of myocarditis from COVID itself.


I said why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?

You said please share with us proof that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis.

I responded. Then you posted the above. So, I ask you again. Do you think that mrna vaccines cause myocarditis?

I believe your true answer is, "Yes, but it is generally not serious, not as bad as covid, and a small price to pay for herd immunity.". Of course you cannot admit that the vaccines cause myocarditis being you are speaking like a lawyer/politician arguing a case.

Am I correct?

Again, My wife and I got the vaccine. I have two kids under the age of five. My youngest could wear a mask before turning two. I am weary of giving her one of the current vaccines. I do not trust that the CDC NIH and FDA are telling the truth here although they generally mean well. I believe they are using the ends justifies the means analysis, just like many on this board do.

I also truly believe that covid 19, at least currently, is easy to vaccinate against. However, due to the nature of the pandemic, the government rapidly advanced and prioritized highly effective mrna vaccines over vaccines that did not produce an abundance of neutralizing antibodies. I believe that the vaccines that were pushed aside are at least as effective as jnj (which is good enough) and a whole lot safer. I believe the mrna companies and jnj have now monopolized the us vaccine supply chain so that further vaccine development has been delayed and forced overseas.


It is not correct to say the vaccines "cause" blood clotting or myocarditis at this point. The best you can say is there appear to be isolated cases of myocarditis or blood clotting associated with the vaccine and you would like to see further research done before you have your kids take the vaccine.

I do think the incidence of myocarditis or blood clots in adolescents is far higher with the virus than the vaccines, but the numbers would determine that.
oski003
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calumnus said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Whatever evidence I provide will not be enough for you. As of now, cdc officials have not found a clear link between the mrna vaccines and myocarditis. On the other hand, mainstream media will make statements such as

"The cases seem to have occurred predominantly in adolescents and young adults about four days after their second dose of one of the mRNA vaccines, made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech. And the cases were more common in males than in females."

and not go much farther than that. so, are you in the camp that has their head in the sand and believes the vaccines do not cause myocarditis? or are you in the camp that thinks they do, it is a small price to pay vs covid, and a small sacrifice to protect our neighbors, selves, and achieve herd immunity?
I'm in the camp of listening to the experts, not random people on the internet with an axe to grind. I don't know what your motivations are or what research you have really done, but it certainly appears you are on a campaign to discredit the current COVID vaccines.

I think myocarditis is actually quite common in adolescents and young adults and people are only writing stories about it when it happens to occur shortly after receiving a vaccine. I remember when similar stories started coming out last year around COVID (eg Jamain Stephens and Keyontae Johnson), the message from the COVID denier crowd was that there was not yet sufficient evidence to make a causal connection. What we learned in the last year is that not that many college athletes seemed to develop heart problems shortly following COVID, but that myocarditis did occasionally happen and that most of the time it wasn't severe. It wasn't that common for people to die or have serious lasting effects, as far as we know now, from myocarditis following COVID.

So, I guess I would say that I think there's a chance that the MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis and there is a chance that it's a serious concern, but there is also a chance that it's just a correlation or that there is causation but that it's not a serious concern because myocarditis is generally mild and clears up in a few weeks. You haven't provided any information to show that myocarditis is a reason that people should fear the MRNA vaccines, particularly given the risk of myocarditis from COVID itself.


I said why does one vaccine cause serious blood clots and the other myocarditis if it is simply the body building antibodies to the virus?

You said please share with us proof that MRNA vaccines cause myocarditis.

I responded. Then you posted the above. So, I ask you again. Do you think that mrna vaccines cause myocarditis?

I believe your true answer is, "Yes, but it is generally not serious, not as bad as covid, and a small price to pay for herd immunity.". Of course you cannot admit that the vaccines cause myocarditis being you are speaking like a lawyer/politician arguing a case.

Am I correct?

Again, My wife and I got the vaccine. I have two kids under the age of five. My youngest could wear a mask before turning two. I am weary of giving her one of the current vaccines. I do not trust that the CDC NIH and FDA are telling the truth here although they generally mean well. I believe they are using the ends justifies the means analysis, just like many on this board do.

I also truly believe that covid 19, at least currently, is easy to vaccinate against. However, due to the nature of the pandemic, the government rapidly advanced and prioritized highly effective mrna vaccines over vaccines that did not produce an abundance of neutralizing antibodies. I believe that the vaccines that were pushed aside are at least as effective as jnj (which is good enough) and a whole lot safer. I believe the mrna companies and jnj have now monopolized the us vaccine supply chain so that further vaccine development has been delayed and forced overseas.


It is not correct to say the vaccines "cause" blood clotting or myocarditis at this point. The best you can say is there appear to be isolated cases of myocarditis or blood clotting associated with the vaccine and you would like to see further research done before you have your kids take the vaccine.


In rare cases, azn and jnj vaccines cause serious clotting. In rare cases, mrna vaccines cause myocarditis. In rare cases, Covid 19 causes serious myocarditis. Incidents of myocarditis post vaccination and from covid 19 itself tend to affect the young and healthy, which is the population less likely to be affected by the more dangerous elements of the disease.. These myocarditis effects have been life changing for some. Even though the scientific community generally believes that covid 19 had caused these issues, they are hesitant to conclude the vaccine does as well.

I feel that is fair.
wraptor347
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It's not fair.

The science and data at this point does not suggest that the vaccines cause myocarditis. It's something the CDC is monitoring and evaluating, but it is not fair to say that any of the covid vaccines cause myocarditis.

You can search VAERS if you want. I did some searching and there appear to be 241 reports of myocarditis for people who have taken Pfizer or Moderna (only 1 death). It tripled from March to April, which sounds scary, but it went from 33 to 91. Part of that is because we administered roughly double the number of vaccines in April than March.

There have been ~280M doses of Pfizer/Moderna administered in the US. Even if you assume every report of myocarditis is a case caused by the vaccine, that's a 1 in a million chance that a dose of the vaccine causes myocarditis. The chance of catching covid and developing severe symptoms (including myocarditis) is several orders of magnitude higher.

There simply isn't evidence yet that there is a causal link. Given the scale of vaccinations, it seems more plausible to me that the people who develop myocarditis after vaccination would have developed myocarditis anyways (it could be due to an underlying health condition, a viral infection, or drug use). And maybe adolescents are naturally at a higher risk of myocarditis than the rest of the population.

Maybe there's a small subset of the population that are at an elevated risk of myocarditis after taking the vaccine (e.g. a combination of age, gender, underlying health conditions, and medications). But there isn't evidence of that yet.

Also, you seem to think the incidence rate is about the same. Myocarditis is far more common from covid infections than covid vaccinations. The studies I've seen place it ~1-5%. The VAERS data shows an incidence rate of 0.0001%. They're both "rare", but one of those numbers seems a lot rarer than the other.
oski003
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wraptor347 said:

It's not fair.

The science and data at this point does not suggest that the vaccines cause myocarditis. It's something the CDC is monitoring and evaluating, but it is not fair to say that any of the covid vaccines cause myocarditis.

You can search VAERS if you want. I did some searching and there appear to be 241 reports of myocarditis for people who have taken Pfizer or Moderna (only 1 death). It tripled from March to April, which sounds scary, but it went from 33 to 91. Part of that is because we administered roughly double the number of vaccines in April than March.

There have been ~280M doses of Pfizer/Moderna administered in the US. Even if you assume every report of myocarditis is a case caused by the vaccine, that's a 1 in a million chance that a dose of the vaccine causes myocarditis. The chance of catching covid and developing severe symptoms (including myocarditis) is several orders of magnitude higher.

There simply isn't evidence yet that there is a causal link. Given the scale of vaccinations, it seems more plausible to me that the people who develop myocarditis after vaccination would have developed myocarditis anyways (it could be due to an underlying health condition, a viral infection, or drug use). And maybe adolescents are naturally at a higher risk of myocarditis than the rest of the population.

Maybe there's a small subset of the population that are at an elevated risk of myocarditis after taking the vaccine (e.g. a combination of age, gender, underlying health conditions, and medications). But there isn't evidence of that yet.

Also, you seem to think the incidence rate is about the same. Myocarditis is far more common from covid infections than covid vaccinations. The studies I've seen place it ~1-5%. The VAERS data shows an incidence rate of 0.0001%. They're both "rare", but one of those numbers seems a lot rarer than the other.


The 280 million is a misleading figure. Myocarditis seems to happen after second shot. Only 40% of a 320 million population are fully vaccinated, and some with jnj. Also, USA started vaccinating the older population first, who do not get this. Also, as has already been stated, most incidents of myocarditis are not serious enough to hit vaers. Minor myocarditis with no other serious conditions likely goes unreported. We are starting to vaccinate younger people. Also, vaers data is delayed because It is backed up a bit.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

wraptor347 said:

It's not fair.

The science and data at this point does not suggest that the vaccines cause myocarditis. It's something the CDC is monitoring and evaluating, but it is not fair to say that any of the covid vaccines cause myocarditis.

You can search VAERS if you want. I did some searching and there appear to be 241 reports of myocarditis for people who have taken Pfizer or Moderna (only 1 death). It tripled from March to April, which sounds scary, but it went from 33 to 91. Part of that is because we administered roughly double the number of vaccines in April than March.

There have been ~280M doses of Pfizer/Moderna administered in the US. Even if you assume every report of myocarditis is a case caused by the vaccine, that's a 1 in a million chance that a dose of the vaccine causes myocarditis. The chance of catching covid and developing severe symptoms (including myocarditis) is several orders of magnitude higher.

There simply isn't evidence yet that there is a causal link. Given the scale of vaccinations, it seems more plausible to me that the people who develop myocarditis after vaccination would have developed myocarditis anyways (it could be due to an underlying health condition, a viral infection, or drug use). And maybe adolescents are naturally at a higher risk of myocarditis than the rest of the population.

Maybe there's a small subset of the population that are at an elevated risk of myocarditis after taking the vaccine (e.g. a combination of age, gender, underlying health conditions, and medications). But there isn't evidence of that yet.

Also, you seem to think the incidence rate is about the same. Myocarditis is far more common from covid infections than covid vaccinations. The studies I've seen place it ~1-5%. The VAERS data shows an incidence rate of 0.0001%. They're both "rare", but one of those numbers seems a lot rarer than the other.


The 280 million is a misleading figure. Myocarditis seems to happen after second shot. Only 40% of a 320 million population are fully vaccinated, and some with jnj. Also, USA started vaccinating the older population first, who do not get this. Also, as has already been stated, most incidents of myocarditis are not serious enough to hit vaers. Minor myocarditis with no other serious conditions likely goes unreported. We are starting to vaccinate younger people. Also, vaers data is delayed because It is backed up a bit.


Most cases of myocarditis are mild and resolve within a short period of time with no lasting damage. The important question is whether there is a link between the vaccines and cases of myocarditis that cause lasting damage and how to measure that against the same metric for those infected with COVID. If a tree falls in the forest and no one was around to hear it, would an anti-vaxxer still argue that people should avoid vaccines?

We have had people consistently underplaying the lasting impacts of COVID, including myocarditis, and now you are trying to get the same people up in arms over mild cases of myocarditis from vaccines. At this point if people are particularly worried about the vaccines, it appears they should be extremely fearful of COVID itself, but that largely doesn't appear to be the case.

I'm not judging people like GTA's daughter in law who is taking precautions against COVID in lieu of vaccination but anti-maskers who say COVID is no big deal and yet are somehow up in arms over potential unproven risks of vaccines.
wraptor347
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None of what you said gets you anywhere close to the same risk profile as covid. Of for that matter, getting in a car crash. Regardless of demographic.

Btw, 280m is the number of pfizer/moderna doses administered. That does not include jnj. If you scroll down the link i provided it shows doses administered by vaccine manufacturer.

And to prove a casual link, you need to, at a minimum, be comparing the incidence rate between people with the vaccine with those without. If 1 in 100k adolescents without the vaccine is developing myocarditis, and 1 in 100k adolescents with the vaccine is developing myocarditis, you wouldn't claim the vaccine is causing it would you? You're claiming causality without even knowing what either of those numbers actually is.

And, as Unit2 pointed out, if vaccines do cause myocarditis, let's say 1 in 100k, you need to compare to the risk of covid and any lasting damage it causes to assess their safety. If the chance of catching covid and getting myocarditis (or some other severe symptom) is e.g. 1 in 10k, then the vaccine is the safer option.
oski003
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wraptor347 said:

None of what you said gets you anywhere close to the same risk profile as covid. Of for that matter, getting in a car crash. Regardless of demographic.

Btw, 280m is the number of pfizer/moderna doses administered. That does not include jnj. If you scroll down the link i provided it shows doses administered by vaccine manufacturer.

And to prove a casual link, you need to, at a minimum, be comparing the incidence rate between people with the vaccine with those without. If 1 in 100k adolescents without the vaccine is developing myocarditis, and 1 in 100k adolescents with the vaccine is developing myocarditis, you wouldn't claim the vaccine is causing it would you? You're claiming causality without even knowing what either of those numbers actually is.

And, as Unit2 pointed out, if vaccines do cause myocarditis, let's say 1 in 100k, you need to compare to the risk of covid and any lasting damage it causes to assess their safety. If the chance of catching covid and getting myocarditis (or some other severe symptom) is e.g. 1 in 10k, then the vaccine is the safer option.


This is a good read on the underreporting of myocarditis in the mrna vaccines.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/what-its-like-to-have-myocarditis-after-covid-19-vaccine.html

Wraptor, it seemed you initially implied 280 million vaccinations when you actually meant doses. Generally, this is a problem with second dose only. btw, I appreciate your tone. Others are condescending and seem a bit emotional in their criticism of my posts and decisions to vaccinate my children.

As for your implication that I need to base my opinions on the EUA standard, whereas mrna vaccines are better than no vaccines, I SHOULD NOT have to make that evaluation for my 2 year old child. That was true 4 months ago when I got vaccinated and that is why I am vaccinated.

The FDA is now hinting they will not have any more EUA talks with new companies. The EUA standard is apparently too easy against covid. Now, companies with SAFER vaccines will have to go full BLA. We will continue to evaluate mrna vaccines only against the challenge of a dangerous, unstopped pandemic.
Unit2Sucks
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o003 - To be clear, I don't think anyone has reacted to your decision not to vaccinate your ineligible children. The reaction is to your consistent use of messaging which is consistent with the sort of agenda-driven misinformation typical of anti-vaxxers which is dangerous to public health.

My understanding is that we won't know until the fall whether Pfizer will be approved for children under 11. I don't think there is a reason to take a position on what you would hypothetically do until that point so save us the excessive handwringing. No one is asking you to make a decision on whether to vaccinate your 2 year old. More pointedly, you will not have that decision to make for at least 4+ months, so if that is your motivation for whatever it is you are doing here, then color me confused.

I haven't even begun to consider whether to vaccinate my children because there is no eligible vaccine for them yet. When one becomes available, I will consult with my trusted pediatrician and make a decision. Most people I know are in the same boat and, I see very few people freaking out the way you are.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

o003 - To be clear, I don't think anyone has reacted to your decision not to vaccinate your ineligible children. The reaction is to your consistent use of messaging which is consistent with the sort of agenda-driven misinformation typical of anti-vaxxers which is dangerous to public health.

My understanding is that we won't know until the fall whether Pfizer will be approved for children under 11. I don't think there is a reason to take a position on what you would hypothetically do until that point so save us the excessive handwringing. No one is asking you to make a decision on whether to vaccinate your 2 year old. More pointedly, you will not have that decision to make for at least 4+ months, so if that is your motivation for whatever it is you are doing here, then color me confused.

I haven't even begun to consider whether to vaccinate my children because there is no eligible vaccine for them yet. When one becomes available, I will consult with my trusted pediatrician and make a decision. Most people I know are in the same boat and, I see very few people freaking out the way you are.


I am not freaking out. I can just as easily say that my posts are freaking you out. The USA is not developing an alternative and the mrna vaccines are being tried in children. 5 in 1100 had serious adverse effects. I believe it will get EUA for young kids. I believe it is an ends justifies the means analysis.

Btw, you can always consult your doctor, and I will never criticize you for doing so.
oski003
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Countries in Scandinavia have halted AZN and JnJ. German scientists believe the delivery mechanism of AZN and JnJ is causing the dangerous clotting. It was mentioned earlier that AZN had an easy fix to prevent their issues. What was it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/vaccine-astrazeneca-johnson-johnson-blood-clots-side-effects-covid-2021-5?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
71Bear
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dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.


Just wait until you receive your shingles vaccination (65+). If you think your COVID vaccination threw you for a loop, the shingles shot (a two shot regimen) will throw you for a double loop. By far, it was the worst reaction I have ever had to any vaccination. But I would do it again in a heartbeat. The alternative is horrible.

Big C
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71Bear said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.


Just wait until you receive your shingles vaccination (65+). If you think your COVID vaccination threw you for a loop, the shingles shot (a two shot regimen) will throw you for a double loop. By far, it was the worst reaction I have ever had to any vaccination. But I would do it again in a heartbeat. The alternative is horrible.



Though I'm not yet 65, my doctor has suggested I get the shingles vaccine. The nurse at the injection clinic, man, I thought she was working on commission, the way she was pushing it. I passed, for now. Need to do some research.
philbert
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Big C said:

71Bear said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.


Just wait until you receive your shingles vaccination (65+). If you think your COVID vaccination threw you for a loop, the shingles shot (a two shot regimen) will throw you for a double loop. By far, it was the worst reaction I have ever had to any vaccination. But I would do it again in a heartbeat. The alternative is horrible.



Though I'm not yet 65, my doctor has suggested I get the shingles vaccine. The nurse at the injection clinic, man, I thought she was working on commission, the way she was pushing it. I passed, for now. Need to do some research.
My sister (a nurse) told me to get it when I turned 50. I looked it up and that's what they recommend for the newer vaccine.

And I agree, it was worse than the Pfizer shots for me.
GivemTheAxe
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71Bear said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.


Just wait until you receive your shingles vaccination (65+). If you think your COVID vaccination threw you for a loop, the shingles shot (a two shot regimen) will throw you for a double loop. By far, it was the worst reaction I have ever had to any vaccination. But I would do it again in a heartbeat. The alternative is horrible.



Agree. I had my shingles shot and the after effects were worse than the COVID shots but everyone one I know who developed Shingles says it is absolute agony and unending. You won't die but you might wish you would.
calumnus
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GivemTheAxe said:

71Bear said:

dimitrig said:


I got the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over 3 weeks ago.

It came with a lot of side effects. The first two days afterwards I was just tired (slept until noon both days) but starting on Day Three and for the entire next week I had gastrointestinal issues, a mild headache (I am not prone to headaches), and a runny nose. I am just now starting to feel like myself, which is when I should be getting the second shot.

I've decided I'm not going to get it - at least not anytime soon.

Sure, the "booster" will increase my protection but I figure I've done okay for an entire year without any vaccine so I can manage without it. In my area something like 5% of the population has had COVID. With the increased protection of the first dose of the vaccine and the relatively slim chance of having an issue even IF I acquire COVID at my age (40s) - and that was BEFORE the vaccine - I've decided to hold off.

I have spoken to a lot of people who have been "fully" vaccinated and if they were under 60 they generally had a bad time of it. Older people tended to be fine. These side effects are not typical for a vaccine. I've had lots of vaccines in my life and never heard of side effects like this. One coworker is an Olympic-class cyclist and was knocked on his butt for 3 days following the 2nd dose. My sister works in the restaurant industry and said that a lot of the people who work for her got sick after the 2nd dose. I have heard lots of other anecdotal stories in which people got pretty ill after the 2nd dose.

I think it is pretty clear that we are in the realm of "better safe than sorry" which is why I went ahead and got the first dose, but I want to see a lot more data before I subject myself to that again.


Just wait until you receive your shingles vaccination (65+). If you think your COVID vaccination threw you for a loop, the shingles shot (a two shot regimen) will throw you for a double loop. By far, it was the worst reaction I have ever had to any vaccination. But I would do it again in a heartbeat. The alternative is horrible.



Agree. I had my shingles shot and the after effects were worse than the COVID shots but everyone one I know who developed Shingles says it is absolute agony and unending. You won't die but you might wish you would.


My father used to go to the gym every day and played PG for team USA in the senior Olympics. Then he got shingles and his health has rapidly deteriorated ever since. The most pain he has ever experienced and he is someone who shattered his kneecap in high school then played college ball and once broke his leg taking a charge from Jim Brown in a pick-up game.
 
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