Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

116,924 Views | 2421 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by oski003
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?

I'm not 65 yet, but my doctor recommended I get the shingles vaccine. When I then went to the injection clinic for a different shot, the nurse there was pushing the shingles one so much that I almost thought she was working on commission. I blew them off. I mean, what the heck is shingles?!? But after reading these last few posts, I think I better research it.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:


I'm not 65 yet, but my doctor recommended I get the shingles vaccine. When I then went to the injection clinic for a different shot, the nurse there was pushing the shingles one so much that I almost thought she was working on commission. I blew them off. I mean, what the heck is shingles?!? But after reading these last few posts, I think I better research it.


You thought she was getting a commission simply because she was encouraging every one to get the shingles shot???
1. Do you come to the same conclusion every year when there is a major push my all health care workers for people to get flu shots?
2. Did it occur to you that maybe she became a health care worker to help people and decided that encouraging people to get the shingles shot was one way of helping people avoid a very painful disease?
3. Whenever I see an ad for some new medicine on TV I am suspicious that it's all fake and fine to increase profits.
But when a doctor or nurse whom I know, gives me medical advice, I give it more credence. I don't always follow that advice if i know from experience that there is a problem. (For example I always ignore a doctor's advice to take ibuprofen since I know that ibuprofen causes me to get a bloody nose - has something to do with drying out the inner lining of my nose).
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:


I'm not 65 yet, but my doctor recommended I get the shingles vaccine. When I then went to the injection clinic for a different shot, the nurse there was pushing the shingles one so much that I almost thought she was working on commission. I blew them off. I mean, what the heck is shingles?!? But after reading these last few posts, I think I better research it.


It is incredibly painful, can be disfiguring (my father's face was very swollen on one side), lead to the collapse of your overall health and is now easily preventable with a vaccine.
71Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:


I'm not 65 yet, but my doctor recommended I get the shingles vaccine. When I then went to the injection clinic for a different shot, the nurse there was pushing the shingles one so much that I almost thought she was working on commission. I blew them off. I mean, what the heck is shingles?!? But after reading these last few posts, I think I better research it.
The only thing I can say is that you would be really foolish if you pass it up. The reaction is no picnic but two days of reaction is far, far better than contracting the illness. It is absolutely awful. Read some medical literature. After that, I don't think you will give the shot a second thought....

P.S. Your injection nurse is a very wise woman....
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GivemTheAxe said:

Big C said:


I'm not 65 yet, but my doctor recommended I get the shingles vaccine. When I then went to the injection clinic for a different shot, the nurse there was pushing the shingles one so much that I almost thought she was working on commission. I blew them off. I mean, what the heck is shingles?!? But after reading these last few posts, I think I better research it.


You thought she was getting a commission simply because she was encouraging every one to get the shingles shot???
1. Do you come to the same conclusion every year when there is a major push my all health care workers for people to get flu shots?
2. Did it occur to you that maybe she became a health care worker to help people and decided that encouraging people to get the shingles shot was one way of helping people avoid a very painful disease?
3. Whenever I see an ad for some new medicine on TV I am suspicious that it's all fake and fine to increase profits.
But when a doctor or nurse whom I know, gives me medical advice, I give it more credence. I don't always follow that advice if i know from experience that there is a problem. (For example I always ignore a doctor's advice to take ibuprofen since I know that ibuprofen causes me to get a bloody nose - has something to do with drying out the inner lining of my nose).

Jesus, this can be a tough crowd. I said "almost". It was an off-hand remark. My sincerest apologies to all the injection nurses and their friends and families out there who took offense at my ignorant, tongue-in-cheek comment. Also to GlaxoSmithKline, developer of Shingrix. Ask your doctor (or injection nurse) about Shingrix today!
rkt88edmo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Shingles is chickenpox part II the revenge.

You don't want it.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big Dog said:

GivemTheAxe said:

OK I am back. I tried to stay away but could not keep it up.
Just read on Politico that the UC's and the CSU's are going to require students who want to come back in the Fall to have received COVID vaccines (with limited exceptions for religious reasons).

Luckily there should be plenty of time for all returning students to get those vaccines since the rate of vaccinations has been dropping in part due to resistance from anti-vaxers.

Go Bears!
But first get your shots.

If every fan has there shots by the beginning of football season, it becomes a lot less risky for the fans who attend.
Not sure if your source gave teh full story, but UC/CSU said that they will require vax once the CDC gives regular approval for the vax. Right now, all 3 are approved under an Emergency order. None of the three approved vax manufacturers have yet submitted data/application for full/regular approval. They originally had planned to submit by late April.

Typical approval takes 8-10 months. Likely CDC will fast track, but you can assume that no way no how the feds approve by early August in time to get (hundreds of thousands of) students vaccinated, submit and check records, and approve before move-in late August.

Two recent interesting developments.
A. The CDC just decided to allow employers to require employees to have vaccination ( with the usual religious and medical exceptions) provided that the employers are not aggressive in their implementation of this policy.

B. More and more colleges are joining the bandwagon to encourage/require students to be vaccinated but (like Cal) allowing for religious and medical exceptions and not making it mandatory until at least one vaccine receives full approval. (NYT 5-23-21 by Rukmini Callimachi). The most recent additions are the 9 campuses if Indiana University.
The NYT article focuses on the Red State - Blue state split among the colleges. With the Red State colleges wanting to have their students protected but not wanting to incur the wrath of state politicians.

I wonder whether either the new CDC guidelines Or whether final approval of any vaccine will have any real effect on the resistance to the vaccines.
IMO the issue has become so politicized, they will not.

oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.

oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
Also from the article you posted:
Quote:

"It does suggest that this is, at least statistically, a real phenomenon," says Peter Liu, a cardiologist and chief scientific officer of the University of Ottawa Heart Institute. Diekema says it's important to investigate "even a hint of a signal," but cautions that "while this report is suggestive it requires validation in other populations by other investigators before we can be certain the link exists." Other factors may be in play, Diekema says. Now that children are back to socializing and playing sports, his hospital's emergency room is "seeing more viral diseases than we've seen in a year," and as a result, "I would expect to see a little bump in myocarditis versus a year ago." Ideally, scientists should compare cohorts of vaccinated and unvaccinated youngsters at the same time, Diekema says, and he's heartened that such studies are now gearing up.
So no, not yet. Needs more study.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
Also from the article you posted:
Quote:

"It does suggest that this is, at least statistically, a real phenomenon," says Peter Liu, a cardiologist and chief scientific officer of the University of Ottawa Heart Institute. Diekema says it's important to investigate "even a hint of a signal," but cautions that "while this report is suggestive it requires validation in other populations by other investigators before we can be certain the link exists." Other factors may be in play, Diekema says. Now that children are back to socializing and playing sports, his hospital's emergency room is "seeing more viral diseases than we've seen in a year," and as a result, "I would expect to see a little bump in myocarditis versus a year ago." Ideally, scientists should compare cohorts of vaccinated and unvaccinated youngsters at the same time, Diekema says, and he's heartened that such studies are now gearing up.
So no, not yet. Needs more study.


of course.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.


I believe heavy exposure to covid 19 is far more dangerous to young kids than the pfizer vaccine. Light exposure, on the other hand, is a different story. I am only arguing against the safety of mrna vaccines and questions related to their durability (which then requires more doses). The vaccines are effective.
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.


I believe heavy exposure to covid 19 is far more dangerous to young kids than the pfizer vaccine. Light exposure, on the other hand, is a different story. I am only arguing against the safety of mrna vaccines and questions related to their durability (which then requires more doses). The vaccines are effective.
Why do you believe that? What information do you have regarding the pfizer vaccine on young children? My understanding is that they are just beginning to test on children under 12 and that we are months away from results.

Perhaps rather than fill the forum with misinformation guided by your fear of someone requiring you to vaccinate your young children with a vaccine that has not been approved for them and in fact has just begun testing, you can wait to see what the CDC says and make an appropriate decision when you have one to make. Right now all you are doing is spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.

oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.


I believe heavy exposure to covid 19 is far more dangerous to young kids than the pfizer vaccine. Light exposure, on the other hand, is a different story. I am only arguing against the safety of mrna vaccines and questions related to their durability (which then requires more doses). The vaccines are effective.
Why do you believe that? What information do you have regarding the pfizer vaccine on young children? My understanding is that they are just beginning to test on children under 12 and that we are months away from results.

Perhaps rather than fill the forum with misinformation guided by your fear of someone requiring you to vaccinate your young children with a vaccine that has not been approved for them and in fact has just begun testing, you can wait to see what the CDC says and make an appropriate decision when you have one to make. Right now all you are doing is spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.




I do not trust the CDC, FDA, and NIH here (during this pandemic) as already stated. I also expressed concern that other vaccines are not being developed here and pfizer, moderna, and jnj vaccines are only being evaluated for children under EUA standards.

Yes, the only supported vaccines will likely get EUA under existing circumstances. You obviously do not like my message. I support the information I provide.

I believe that inactivated and dna based vaccines (without adenoviruses) are safer than what the moderna and pfizer run OWS has allowed to advance.

***

Here is another article. Not much new here, but I do question their definition of the word mild.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/02/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-linked-to-myocarditis-in-young-men-says-israel-s-health-ministry?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1622630821

This quote bothers me:

"Most patients who experienced heart inflammation spent no more than four days in the hospital."
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.


I believe heavy exposure to covid 19 is far more dangerous to young kids than the pfizer vaccine. Light exposure, on the other hand, is a different story. I am only arguing against the safety of mrna vaccines and questions related to their durability (which then requires more doses). The vaccines are effective.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GivemTheAxe said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. That is a high number.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-between-rare-cases-heart-inflammation-and-covid-19-vaccination?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter
Not surprised that you cut out the last sentence in the paragraph you quoted.
Quote:

The COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech appears to put young men at elevated risk of developing a heart muscle inflammation called myocarditis, researchers in Israel say. In a report submitted today to the Israeli Ministry of Health, they conclude that between one in 3000 and one in 6000 men ages 16 to 24 who received the vaccine developed the rare condition. But most cases were mild and resolved within a few weeks, which is typical for myocarditis. "I can't imagine it's going to be anything that would cause medical people to say we shouldn't vaccinate kids," says Douglas Diekema, a pediatrician and bioethicist at Seattle Children's Hospital.




Is it okay to now conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis? Asking for a friend.
No, I think it's still too soon to conclude that the Pfizer vaccine causes myocarditis. It's okay to tell people to consult with their trusted physician.

By the way, after reading the article you linked and others, I'm now even more concerned about the prevalence of myocarditis from COVID than I was before, so thank you for that. If people are genuinely concerned about myocarditis, they should consider it from all angles and they may want to take other precautions in their life to avoid myocarditis, not just avoiding a safe and effective vaccine.

My main objection to your practices is that you continue to ignore all benefits of the vaccines and overstate all potential negatives in order to promote your agenda. I would hope that people would be more circumspect when making personal health decisions like this.


I believe heavy exposure to covid 19 is far more dangerous to young kids than the pfizer vaccine. Light exposure, on the other hand, is a different story. I am only arguing against the safety of mrna vaccines and questions related to their durability (which then requires more doses). The vaccines are effective.


Multiple facts that should be taken into account in any decision whether to take the vaccine or not:
1. 500 persons are still dying from COVID on average every day in the US. (Not counting all over hose who are being infected by Long COVID) They are all vaccinated
2. The P1 variant of COVID is growing fast in the US because it is more contagious than the original COVID.
3 the P1 variant is more deadly to the young than the original COVID
4. The current vaccines are proving effective against the P1 variant and against original COVID.

If you are a parent you decide whether you prefer to expose your kids to: 1.. the obvious and certain dangers of COVID and long COVID which might result in death or serious health repercussions or 2. the remote possible dangers of taking the vaccine. Which might have some lesser repercussions for your children.
My kids are now in their late 30's and early 40's. However looking back to when my kids were minors,i if they were under 18, I would choose alternative number 2.
I could never forgive myself if I had chosen alternative number 1, and they had suffered the serious effects of COVID.

As parents we all have o make choices for our children. Some turn out right, some turn out wrong. Some in between.

When I was a parent or minor children, I went with the odds. What was most likely to do the most good for my kids. And I avoided those choices that were the most likely to do the most harm for my kids.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.

oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?


They should probably listen to the advice of their physician, but they can take other precautions.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?


They should probably listen to the advice of their physician, but they can take other precautions.
That wasn't so hard, was it?
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?


They should probably listen to the advice of their physician, but they can take other precautions.
That wasn't so hard, was it?




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you still miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?


They should probably listen to the advice of their physician, but they can take other precautions.
That wasn't so hard, was it?




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you still miss the point and are taking potshots at me.

U2sucks obviously hasn't gotten over previous posts. Maybe he can be the first one to take 3 covid vaccines from different companies and see how the cocktail mixture reacts. 3 vaccines are better than one, just like masks as they say.
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AunBear89 said:



Darn clever, these Cal grads.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?

One last ditch approach the Biden-Harris administration can try ( modifying the concept of another poster) is to have the CDC announce it is giving vaccine priority to Blacks and Hispanics in Red States.
Then have a staged opposition to that order by individual doctors saying "hell no. In violation to that order we are going to give vaccinations to every person, first come first served regardless of race or ethnicity." Then start a campaign on Fox TV: "Get your shot and 'stick it to Biden' "

That ploy is just dumb enough to work.
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?

One last ditch approach the Biden-Harris administration can try ( modifying the concept of another poster) is to have the CDC announce it is giving vaccine priority to Blacks and Hispanics in Red States.
Then have a staged opposition to that order by individual doctors saying "hell no. In violation to that order we are going to give vaccinations to every person, first come first served regardless of race or ethnicity." "Get your shot and 'stick it to Biden' "

That ploy is just dumb enough to work.

LOL, worth a try.
I know Trump said this once, but if he actually went on a barnstorming tour, telling all his supporters that he got vaccinated and he recommends they do, too, it would probably mean MILLIONS more would get the jab. He could even remind them that Operation Warp Speed started on his watch. Why he wouldn't want to do this, even just to try and rehabilitate his reputation, is beyond me. But hey...
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailynews.com/2021/06/04/covid-vaccine-lottery-3-la-county-residents-2-from-oc-win-50000/amp/

I should have waited two months and been eligible for the $50,000 lottery incentive.
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?

One last ditch approach the Biden-Harris administration can try ( modifying the concept of another poster) is to have the CDC announce it is giving vaccine priority to Blacks and Hispanics in Red States.
Then have a staged opposition to that order by individual doctors saying "hell no. In violation to that order we are going to give vaccinations to every person, first come first served regardless of race or ethnicity." "Get your shot and 'stick it to Biden' "

That ploy is just dumb enough to work.

LOL, worth a try.
I know Trump said this once, but if actually went on a barnstorming tour, telling all his supporters that he got vaccinated and he recommends they do, too, it would probably mean MILLIONS more would get the jab. He could even remind them that Operation Warp Speed started on his watch. Why he wouldn't want to do this, even just to try and rehabilitate his reputation, is beyond me. But hey...


Because then he would have to acknowledge that the virus is dangerous and has killed thousands of people.

Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailynews.com/2021/06/04/covid-vaccine-lottery-3-la-county-residents-2-from-oc-win-50000/amp/

I should have waited two months and been eligible for the $50,000 lottery incentive.


You are eligible so waiting wouldn't have made a difference. You could still win, there are plenty of prizes left.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?

One last ditch approach the Biden-Harris administration can try ( modifying the concept of another poster) is to have the CDC announce it is giving vaccine priority to Blacks and Hispanics in Red States.
Then have a staged opposition to that order by individual doctors saying "hell no. In violation to that order we are going to give vaccinations to every person, first come first served regardless of race or ethnicity." "Get your shot and 'stick it to Biden' "

That ploy is just dumb enough to work.

LOL, worth a try.
I know Trump said this once, but if actually went on a barnstorming tour, telling all his supporters that he got vaccinated and he recommends they do, too, it would probably mean MILLIONS more would get the jab. He could even remind them that Operation Warp Speed started on his watch. Why he wouldn't want to do this, even just to try and rehabilitate his reputation, is beyond me. But hey...

? I don't know if Trump took the vaccine but otherwise, he said all those things.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearForce2 said:

Big C said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I guess oski003 hasn't gotten around to it yet, but there is a new paper in JAMA Cardiology analyzing the presence of myocarditis in Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID. Given his deep concerns around myocarditis, I assume he would find this of interest.

From the paper:
Quote:

In this study of aggregate data from 13 Big Ten Universities, 1597 athletes who tested positive by polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 underwent comprehensive cardiac evaluation including ECG, echocardiogram, troponin, and CMR imaging. Of these, 2.3% had either clinical or subclinical myocarditis that restricted them from training and competitive play. Allowing for potential differences in CMR performance and distributional characteristics yielded an estimated prevalence of myocarditis of 2.1% (95% CI, 1.1%-4.4%).

...

At present, we do not know the natural history or the short- and long-term implications to an athlete with COVID-19 clinical or subclinical myocarditis.




I advocate athletes taking precautions to not get covid. I am not surprised you miss the point and are taking potshots at me.
You mean like taking vaccines?

One last ditch approach the Biden-Harris administration can try ( modifying the concept of another poster) is to have the CDC announce it is giving vaccine priority to Blacks and Hispanics in Red States.
Then have a staged opposition to that order by individual doctors saying "hell no. In violation to that order we are going to give vaccinations to every person, first come first served regardless of race or ethnicity." "Get your shot and 'stick it to Biden' "

That ploy is just dumb enough to work.

LOL, worth a try.
I know Trump said this once, but if actually went on a barnstorming tour, telling all his supporters that he got vaccinated and he recommends they do, too, it would probably mean MILLIONS more would get the jab. He could even remind them that Operation Warp Speed started on his watch. Why he wouldn't want to do this, even just to try and rehabilitate his reputation, is beyond me. But hey...

? I don't know if Trump took the vaccine but otherwise, he's said all those things


It was reported by reputable sources shortly after Biden's inauguration that our former "Fearless Leader" and his current wife received their vaccinations surreptitiously before leaving office.

I want surprised when he kept his his information quiet from his loyal followers. Here he was as usual "looking out for Number 1" and putting his followers at risk for their lives by keeping from them information that could save their lives (I.e. "take the dam* vaccination").
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.