oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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This seems significant.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-regulator-reviewing-moderna-covid-shot-auto-immune-blood-condition-2021-07-14/?taid=60ef33070afda000016c12ab&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

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Seems like more of the same.

Quote:

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Europe's drug regulator said on Wednesday it had assessed nine cases of an auto-immune blood condition following vaccination with Moderna Inc's (MRNA.O) COVID-19 shot, but no "clear causal relationship" could be established between the two.

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LOL, not surprising.

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That they're unable to establish a causal relationship? No, it's not surprising.

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Pfizer just published this data in NEJM. Do you see these symptoms anywhere in the results?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107456

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair

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Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.

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What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

I see no point in debating a single case. One case doesn't prove anything.

More great news on mRNA vaccine efficacy: Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

Quote:

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A little bit of coronavirus vaccine goes a long way towards generating lasting immunity.

Two jabs that each contained only one-quarter of the standard dose of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine gave rise to long-lasting protective antibodies and virus-fighting T cells, according to tests in nearly three dozen people1. The results hint at the possibility of administering fractional doses to stretch limited vaccine supplies and accelerate the global immunization effort

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This may also help reduce vaccine hesitancy and push some people to go for Moderna, assuming, of course, that this is proven effective and implemented in the US. At the very least, it should save us some money.

And yet another reminder, for anyone who needs one, that vaccines work and that being unvaccinated doesn't.

Quote:

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As the Delta variant continues its rapid spread in Los Angeles County, Dr. Christina Ghaly says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals.

"To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," said Dr. Christina Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated."

State and county data shows the highly contagious Delta variant is quickly spreading among those who have not yet received a COVID-19 vaccine.

Coronavirus infection numbers in the county have been surging upward for nearly a week, topping 1,000 new cases for the fifth straight day Tuesday. The daily average for new cases has jumped nearly 500% over the past month.

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Unit2Sucks said:

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More great news on mRNA vaccine efficacy: Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

Quote:

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A little bit of coronavirus vaccine goes a long way towards generating lasting immunity.

Two jabs that each contained only one-quarter of the standard dose of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine gave rise to long-lasting protective antibodies and virus-fighting T cells, according to tests in nearly three dozen people1. The results hint at the possibility of administering fractional doses to stretch limited vaccine supplies and accelerate the global immunization effort

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This may also help reduce vaccine hesitancy and push some people to go for Moderna, assuming, of course, that this is proven effective and implemented in the US. At the very least, it should save us some money.

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This is good news if true as this is a nice promotion for Moderna. Moderna had this information in November/December. They then turned down a 100 million dollar grant offer from the U.S. (free money $$$) to run a trial in South America against variants. This would have been an excellent opportunity to trial the 1/4 dose in more than 36 people. Instead, we get this.

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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More great news on mRNA vaccine efficacy: Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

Quote:

---

A little bit of coronavirus vaccine goes a long way towards generating lasting immunity.

Two jabs that each contained only one-quarter of the standard dose of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine gave rise to long-lasting protective antibodies and virus-fighting T cells, according to tests in nearly three dozen people1. The results hint at the possibility of administering fractional doses to stretch limited vaccine supplies and accelerate the global immunization effort

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This may also help reduce vaccine hesitancy and push some people to go for Moderna, assuming, of course, that this is proven effective and implemented in the US. At the very least, it should save us some money.

---

This is good news if true

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Agreed. As we continue to see, the vaccines are the best way out of the COVID crisis both in America and abroad. The virus is surging in less vaccinated areas as masking and social distancing restrictions have been eliminated or loosened. Hopefully we will continue to see positive data to help drive vaccine adoption.

Patient was a 16yr female who received Pfizer vaccine 3/19/21 at vaccine clinic and presented with ongoing CPR to the ED 3/28/21 after cardiac arrest at home. Patient placed on ECMO and imaging revealed bilateral large pulmonary embolism as likely etiology of arrest. Risk factors included oral contraceptive use. Labs have since confirmed absence of Factor V leiden or prothrombin gene mutation. Patient declared dead by neurologic criteria 3/30/21.

Other Medications: Reported to be on Drospirenone-Ethinyl Estradiol 3-0.02 MG per tab.

Patient died two days after administration of Pfizer Covid Vaccine.

15 yr old male vaccinated with Pfizer/Biontech, died 04/20/2021, 2 days after vaccination.

Preexisting Conditions: No
Allergies: Nothing
Diagnostic Lab Data:
CDC Split Type:

Write-up: Heart failure

People got polio from polio vaccine.

FDA has questions about the device Inovio uses to deliver its vaccine. Puts trial on hold. FDA put an Inovio trial on hold for a similar device (intramuscular vs intradermal) for a year in 2016 for a cancer treatment. This cancer trial is currently in phase 3 after multiple FDA delays.

https://ir.inovio.com/news-releases/news-releases-details/2020/INOVIO-Reports-FDA-Partial-Clinical-Hold-for-Planned-Phase-2--3-Trial-of-COVID-19-Vaccine-Candidate-INO-4800/default.aspx

The device is still on FDA hold.

DOD pulls funding from Inovio P3. With the EUA authorizations of Moderna, JnJ, and Pfizer, and their device on hold, completing an FDA P3 is not practical nor necessary.

https://ir.inovio.com/news-releases/news-releases-details/2021/INOVIO-Planning-for-ex-US-Global-Phase-3-Trial-for-INO-4800/default.aspx

The proof is in the pudding. Prisons and skilled nursing/assisted living facilities were Covid road kill. No more.

Age: 15.0
Sex: Male
Location: California

Vaccinated: 2021-05-15
Onset: 2021-06-07
Days after vaccination: 23
Preexisting Conditions: Acne, no other conditions noted
Allergies: None noted
Write-up: Unexplained death within 48 hours

Age: 16.0
Sex: Male
Location: Georgia

Vaccinated: 2021-06-03
Onset: 2021-06-07
Days after vaccination: 4

Other Medications: Adderall
Current Illness: Headache, upset stomach
Preexisting Conditions: ADHD
Allergies: NKDA
Diagnostic Lab Data: Autopsy pending

Write-up: Prodrome of headache and gastric upset over 2 days following second dose. Then felt fine. Found the following day dead in bed. Autopsy pending

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

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it was long overdue

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tRumpist by chance?

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Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

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But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

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Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

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Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

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Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

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It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

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Could you provide a link to this specific claim?

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Here is an example of a search. VAERS is a pain in the butt to use.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes&AGES[]=5

Covid vaccines death since EUA 7-8 months ago is reported in VAERS at 9,000+. Flu vaccines combined have never reported more than 300 in any given 12 month period.

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Oh, you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu vaccine. I thought you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu.
Knowing that flu is maybe 30,000 to 60,000 I thought you were high.

If you are saying that Covid vaccine is going to be 20k per year vs 600,000 with no vaccine or 1M with no vaccine and no social distancing or masks - I'd say Covid vaccine is a good trade off, wouldn't you?

I mean, attack to get that 9k number down all you want.
But don't attack to effectively reinstate another 600k by eliminating the vaccine altogether, right?

As I said elsewhere, the Covid situs sucks, and some folks are regrettably going to die. But at this point with vaccine, those will either be the unlucky (9k) or the stupid (unvaccinated).

Easy to pity the unlucky who gets the vaccine and dies.
Hard to pity the fool who gets the Covid and dies unvaccinated.

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

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it was long overdue

---

tRumpist by chance?

---

Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

---

But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

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Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

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Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

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Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

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It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

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Which has already been demonstrated as an unreliable metric.

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Just proof of how disingenuous oski is being. VAERS does not report vaccine caused deaths and he knows it. He may pretend not to be an anti-vaxxer but continues to propagate known disinformation in the hopes that people won't call him out for it.

He wants people to think mRNA causes 30x the deaths of the flu vaccine but in reality he uses a source that isn't intended to be used to conclude that even one person died from the vaccine.

As far as I can tell, oski hasn't provided evidence of a single death from mRNA.

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Show some decency. I am not being disingenuous at all. You just parrot whatever our government says. If I posted local news stories of cases of family's ignored when their loved ones died after vaccination, you would shoot them down as unverified because they won't be verified. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

This will likely stay a local news story and not be verified:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/13-year-old-dies-in-sleep-after-getting-covid-19-vaccine-cdc-investigating/amp/

"County health officials told the newspaper that the medical examiner's office had conducted an autopsy, and Clynick's death was reported to the CDC."

"The boy, Jacob Clynick, had no known underlying medical conditions, according to his family."

"The investigation as to whether there is a correlation between his death and vaccination is now at the federal level with CDC," This death was on June 15th. Pfizer got EUA for this age range in May.

Oh wait, I forgot, healthy 13 year olds with no underlying health conditions drop dead all the time. Again, SARCASM.

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So, if it is shown that some people die of Covid and some die of vaccine, the question perhaps then becomes one of which causes more death?
Clearly, Covid wins hands down - or are you trying to suggest otherwise?

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Not at all. In communities with covid, I suggest everyone vulnerable and 30+ get mRNA vaccines while maintaining social distancing. (Edited to clarify, everyone 30+ should get the vaccine. The communities with covid qualifier is meant for the other preventative measures which people aren't really practicing anymore). Businesses should stay open, but I am pro-mask. Obviously, the current government policy is needles in arms and, if you get very sick and the vaccine was available but not taken, it is your fault. I would agree with this policy had OWS and Fauci allowed Americans more choice on their vaccine instead of two vaccine techs that have never been previously approved (with the exception of JnJ fighting ebola in Africa). You can claim that mRNA side effect profile is like the shingles vaccine, but there is a reason it is saved for 50/60+. The adjuvant provides an immediate serious intense immune response.

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Thanks for clarifying.
I admittedly do not follow or understand all the science behind it.
For me it was a numbers game. Tens (hundreds) of thousands were dying, and millions had gotten the shots and were not dying (per news reports, anyways).
At 52, I was not part of the first or send wave of those eligible and so was not a ginnea pig. By the time my age group came up, I was in. 2x Pfizer.
All's good. No reaction.
All my kids have had it down to age 12.

oski003 said:

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If we do need boosters, which is very likely, I want a vaccine that does not cause moderate and severe side effects.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-health-official-says-covid-19-boosters-could-risk-more-serious-side-effects-2021-07-13/

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And I want a million dollars, cash, unmarked bills.

Doesn't mean I'm going to get it.
Sometimes you're dealt two less than ideal cards. That's what we have here.
You and I have both already said we opt for vaccine, so the arguing back and forth with Sycasey would appear to be two people talking past each other. You're in agreement.

FUN FACT:

If the USA continued to support Novavax once mRNA was considered successful, more people would be vaccinated.

Public promotion of a protein based vaccine like a conventional flu shot/ shingrix would get more people vaccinated.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

---

it was long overdue

---

tRumpist by chance?

---

Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

---

But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

---

Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

---

Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

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Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

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It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

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Which has already been demonstrated as an unreliable metric.

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Just proof of how disingenuous oski is being. VAERS does not report vaccine caused deaths and he knows it. He may pretend not to be an anti-vaxxer but continues to propagate known disinformation in the hopes that people won't call him out for it.

He wants people to think mRNA causes 30x the deaths of the flu vaccine but in reality he uses a source that isn't intended to be used to conclude that even one person died from the vaccine.

As far as I can tell, oski hasn't provided evidence of a single death from mRNA.

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Show some decency. I am not being disingenuous at all. You just parrot whatever our government says. If I posted local news stories of cases of family's ignored when their loved ones died after vaccination, you would shoot them down as unverified because they won't be verified. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

This will likely stay a local news story and not be verified:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/13-year-old-dies-in-sleep-after-getting-covid-19-vaccine-cdc-investigating/amp/

"County health officials told the newspaper that the medical examiner's office had conducted an autopsy, and Clynick's death was reported to the CDC."

"The boy, Jacob Clynick, had no known underlying medical conditions, according to his family."

"The investigation as to whether there is a correlation between his death and vaccination is now at the federal level with CDC," This death was on June 15th. Pfizer got EUA for this age range in May.

Oh wait, I forgot, healthy 13 year olds with no underlying health conditions drop dead all the time. Again, SARCASM.

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Makes up a 30x death rate with no basis and then plays the victim card and asks for decency.

That child's death is a horrible tragedy and I feel for his family. We still don't know whether it's a pure vaccine death and I do hope that the appropriate people can make a proper determination. The fact that the family wasn't aware of comorbidities doesn't mean that he didn't have any. I had a friend who had no known health problems who died in his sleep at 22. It was devastating. It turns out he had an undiagnosed heart condition.

You will continue to dissemble and mislead at every turn in hopes you can slip one through the goalie. Stop pretending you're a victim or that you are on a noble crusade.

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I gave a factual basis. You are the one spinning and lying. I will continue to post information as it comes available. Have a nice day.

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False. You intentionally made a false and misleading declarative statement in order to attack the mRNA vaccines because of your agenda. You could make a lot of supported factual claims about VAERS reports, but the one you made was completely unsupported. You should stop and if you weren't a fraud you would stop making these sorts of claims.

You pretend to be some sort of unbiased observer but continually play games and mislead. You know what VAERS is and how it works but hope other people won't call you out on it. And maybe you will convince low information readers to believe your garbage.

For anyone who is interested in why Oski's claim that mRNA vaccines cause 30x as many deaths (despite the fact that he can't even find one proven death) is both false and incredibly disingenuous, here is what the CDC says about VAERS: https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

Quote:

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When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

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And there is a perfectly good reason why there would be so many more reports for potential COVID vaccine related deaths than for the flu: COVID is a new disease with new vaccines and the government is actively asking people to report anything and everything. So the high reporting numbers don't mean anything other than that extra reporting is encouraged.

I believe it's possible that the new vaccines have higher risks associated with them. I also don't think the VAERS data is good evidence of that.

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At this point, we are just posting the same things. Your "noble" attacks on me are noted and not appreciated. I will continue to post new information as it becomes available.

I believe your motivation to be genuine and well-intentioned. You believe that we need to stop vaccine hesitancy and get more people vaccinated to stop covid 19. I believe this board is a place where I can question what our health officials are saying and doing. There is a lot to question. I sincerely believe that mRNA spike protein vaccines are not as safe as we are led to believe, and our leaders have put us in a position such that this is our only protection.

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You can post whatever you want. I am also free to keep saying why I don't find your argument convincing.

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See my post immediately above.
We are all on the same side, here, no?
What am I missing. Oski said he's for the vaccine age 30+ So that leaves us debating below 30. Okay, we are well on our way home on the issue of vaccines, no?

oski003 said:

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FUN FACT:

If the USA continued to support Novavax once mRNA was considered successful, more people would be vaccinated.

Public promotion of a protein based vaccine like a conventional flu shot/ shingrix would get more people vaccinated.

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Move never heard of Novavax. What is it?

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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If we do need boosters, which is very likely, I want a vaccine that does not cause moderate and severe side effects.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-health-official-says-covid-19-boosters-could-risk-more-serious-side-effects-2021-07-13/

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And I want a million dollars, cash, unmarked bills.

Doesn't mean I'm going to get it.
Sometimes you're dealt two less than ideal cards. That's what we have here.
You and I have both already said we opt for vaccine, so the arguing back and forth with Sycasey would appear to be two people talking past each other. You're in agreement.

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Actually, it is more like people needing housing and then the government giving you swamp land because they were lobbied to do so. The swamp land certainly is better than no housing, but I can still advocate for the green pastures that are behind it but owned by Charles and Willa Bruce, who the government wants to crap on.

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

---

it was long overdue

---

tRumpist by chance?

---

Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

---

But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

---

Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

---

Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

---

Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

---

It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

---

Could you provide a link to this specific claim?

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Here is an example of a search. VAERS is a pain in the butt to use.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes&AGES[]=5

Covid vaccines death since EUA 7-8 months ago is reported in VAERS at 9,000+. Flu vaccines combined have never reported more than 300 in any given 12 month period.

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Oh, you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu vaccine. I thought you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu.
Knowing that flu is maybe 30,000 to 60,000 I thought you were high.

If you are saying that Covid vaccine is going to be 20k per year vs 600,000 with no vaccine or 1M with no vaccine and no social distancing or masks - I'd say Covid vaccine is a good trade off, wouldn't you?

I mean, attack to get that 9k number down all you want.
But don't attack to effectively reinstate another 600k by eliminating the vaccine altogether, right?

As I said elsewhere, the Covid situs sucks, and some folks are regrettably going to die. But at this point with vaccine, those will either be the unlucky (9k) or the stupid (unvaccinated).

Easy to pity the unlucky who gets the vaccine and dies.
Hard to pity the fool who gets the Covid and dies unvaccinated.

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This just shows that oski's disingenuous misinformation works. Nowhere near 9k people have died from mRNA vaccines. In fact, oski can't even prove a single person has. Maybe some have but that hasn't been determined yet and oski's random death porn posting doesn't establish any causal link. Any time a child dies, it's a tragedy. The fact that it sometimes occurs after vaccination doesn't mean the vaccines killed them any more than the anti-vax claims that vaccines caused their children to be autistic because onset was coincidental with vaccine administration.

It's the exact same playbook on a larger scale.

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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FUN FACT:

If the USA continued to support Novavax once mRNA was considered successful, more people would be vaccinated.

Public promotion of a protein based vaccine like a conventional flu shot/ shingrix would get more people vaccinated.

---

Move never heard of Novavax. What is it?

---

A protein based vaccine that had better trial results than mRNA but is slower to produce and modify against variants if variant based boosting is necessary.

They can't produce in the current quantities of JnJ and mRNA, so they have been effectively sidelined in the USA. They were also sidelined internationally because the US prevented their Indian manufacturer from getting the supplies needed to make their vaccine. To the first get the spoils.

NVAX has been hamstrung like Inovio. The last year and a half has been really educational regarding BP and govt and not in a good way.

Eating meat and dairy kill millions annually.
Very little reporting on it. Where is the CDC on this?? Nobody seems to care or believe the reporting that does exist on it.

Eat your leafy green veggies! Every meal!

Unit2Sucks said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

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it was long overdue

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tRumpist by chance?

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Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

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But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

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Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

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Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

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Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

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It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

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Could you provide a link to this specific claim?

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Here is an example of a search. VAERS is a pain in the butt to use.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes&AGES[]=5

Covid vaccines death since EUA 7-8 months ago is reported in VAERS at 9,000+. Flu vaccines combined have never reported more than 300 in any given 12 month period.

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Oh, you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu vaccine. I thought you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu.
Knowing that flu is maybe 30,000 to 60,000 I thought you were high.

If you are saying that Covid vaccine is going to be 20k per year vs 600,000 with no vaccine or 1M with no vaccine and no social distancing or masks - I'd say Covid vaccine is a good trade off, wouldn't you?

I mean, attack to get that 9k number down all you want.
But don't attack to effectively reinstate another 600k by eliminating the vaccine altogether, right?

As I said elsewhere, the Covid situs sucks, and some folks are regrettably going to die. But at this point with vaccine, those will either be the unlucky (9k) or the stupid (unvaccinated).

Easy to pity the unlucky who gets the vaccine and dies.
Hard to pity the fool who gets the Covid and dies unvaccinated.

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This just shows that oski's disingenuous misinformation works. Nowhere near 9k people have died from mRNA vaccines. In fact, oski can't even prove a single person has. Maybe some have but that hasn't been determined yet and oski's random death porn posting doesn't establish any causal link. Any time a child dies, it's a tragedy. The fact that it sometimes occurs after vaccination doesn't mean the vaccines killed them any more than the anti-vax claims that vaccines caused their children to be autistic because onset was coincidental with vaccine administration.

It's the exact same playbook on a larger scale.

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You are my inspiration for posting VAERS reports. I was reluctant, but you need to get your head out of the sand. I have around 5000 to go, but more ar added each week. I imagine 1/4 of them or so aren't vaccine related.

concordtom said:

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Eating meat and dairy kill millions annually.
Very little reporting on it. Where is the CDC on this?? Nobody seems to care or believe the reporting that does exist on it.

Eat your leafy green veggies! Every meal!

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What is the incident rate of a person eating a vegetable and then dying within a week? Is it close to 1/100,000?

Because that would be noteworthy.

Oh right the big pharma companion anti-vax conspiracy theory. And lest we forget that Moderna isn't big pharma, oski has another conspiracy theory for why Moderna was approved.

He has an agenda and a lot of different tools to promote it.

Unit2Sucks said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

---

it was long overdue

---

tRumpist by chance?

---

Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

---

But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

---

Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

---

Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

---

Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

---

It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

---

Could you provide a link to this specific claim?

---

Here is an example of a search. VAERS is a pain in the butt to use.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes&AGES[]=5

Covid vaccines death since EUA 7-8 months ago is reported in VAERS at 9,000+. Flu vaccines combined have never reported more than 300 in any given 12 month period.

---

Oh, you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu vaccine. I thought you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu.
Knowing that flu is maybe 30,000 to 60,000 I thought you were high.

If you are saying that Covid vaccine is going to be 20k per year vs 600,000 with no vaccine or 1M with no vaccine and no social distancing or masks - I'd say Covid vaccine is a good trade off, wouldn't you?

I mean, attack to get that 9k number down all you want.
But don't attack to effectively reinstate another 600k by eliminating the vaccine altogether, right?

As I said elsewhere, the Covid situs sucks, and some folks are regrettably going to die. But at this point with vaccine, those will either be the unlucky (9k) or the stupid (unvaccinated).

Easy to pity the unlucky who gets the vaccine and dies.
Hard to pity the fool who gets the Covid and dies unvaccinated.

---

This just shows that oski's disingenuous misinformation works. Nowhere near 9k people have died from mRNA vaccines. In fact, oski can't even prove a single person has. Maybe some have but that hasn't been determined yet and oski's random death porn posting doesn't establish any causal link. Any time a child dies, it's a tragedy. The fact that it sometimes occurs after vaccination doesn't mean the vaccines killed them any more than the anti-vax claims that vaccines caused their children to be autistic because onset was coincidental with vaccine administration.

It's the exact same playbook on a larger scale.

---

Even if it is 9k, better than 600k.
When a disease takes hold, it's just bad news all the way around.
This is Life. Life is unfair. Life is suffering. Then we die. Deal with it.

People want the fairy tale version, where all is good and then we live happily ever after, or die in our sleep at 99.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Oh right the big pharma companion anti-vax conspiracy theory. And lest we forget that Moderna isn't big pharma, oski has another conspiracy theory for why Moderna was approved.

He has an agenda and a lot of different tools to promote it.

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Tools = Facts. Moderna is a hedge fund baby that had a billion dollars in a cash war chest prior to covid. 5-7 scientists in the NIH get 1 million dollars in patent royalties annually because the moderna vaccine was designed by them. mRNA tech has no enforceable delivery patents such that BP can develop and profit. mRNA is attacking Arbutus' mRNA patent and will likely win. They are being added to the S&P500 next week. Pfizer is attempting to develop mRNA tech that will let them dump BioNTech as soon as possible. $$$$$. They are hoping to develop safer transport tech over time.

concordtom said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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bearister said:

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philbert said:

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Big C said:

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It takes a special kind of thread nowadays to get moved from Growls to Off Topic! Congrats to all who've worked so hard on this!

---

it was long overdue

---

tRumpist by chance?

---

Nope. Just tired of the back and forth that wasn't convincing anyone of anything. At this point, everyone is entrenched in their positions.

---

But one of the positions is based on politics, not science. False equivalence.

---

Did it change the hearts and minds of any of the anti-vax/anti-science crowd? I see the same folks posting the same stuff over and over in this thread. No one seems to have changed their position.

There's a much more informative thread on the Insider board, btw.

---

Highlighting how mRNA vaccines have 30x higher death rate per vaccination than flu vaccines (or any other vaccine that is licensed for use) is not anti-vax.

---

Where is your evidence for this claim? You've made a number of unsupported claims for months now. You can pretend that your continuous crying wolf isn't anti-vax but the pattern is indistinguishable. You apply a heavy dose of skepticism to any pro mRNA data or discussion and absolutely no such concern with respect to any negative reports, anecdotes or rumors.

So tell us, where is there proof that mRNA vaccines have killed 30x the flu? How many Americans have mRNA vaccines killed?

---

It is from VAERS, the national vaccine safety monitoring system. I have said this before.

---

Could you provide a link to this specific claim?

---

Here is an example of a search. VAERS is a pain in the butt to use.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes&AGES[]=5

Covid vaccines death since EUA 7-8 months ago is reported in VAERS at 9,000+. Flu vaccines combined have never reported more than 300 in any given 12 month period.

---

Oh, you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu vaccine. I thought you were comparing Covid vaccine to flu.
Knowing that flu is maybe 30,000 to 60,000 I thought you were high.

If you are saying that Covid vaccine is going to be 20k per year vs 600,000 with no vaccine or 1M with no vaccine and no social distancing or masks - I'd say Covid vaccine is a good trade off, wouldn't you?

I mean, attack to get that 9k number down all you want.
But don't attack to effectively reinstate another 600k by eliminating the vaccine altogether, right?

As I said elsewhere, the Covid situs sucks, and some folks are regrettably going to die. But at this point with vaccine, those will either be the unlucky (9k) or the stupid (unvaccinated).

Easy to pity the unlucky who gets the vaccine and dies.
Hard to pity the fool who gets the Covid and dies unvaccinated.

---

This just shows that oski's disingenuous misinformation works. Nowhere near 9k people have died from mRNA vaccines. In fact, oski can't even prove a single person has. Maybe some have but that hasn't been determined yet and oski's random death porn posting doesn't establish any causal link. Any time a child dies, it's a tragedy. The fact that it sometimes occurs after vaccination doesn't mean the vaccines killed them any more than the anti-vax claims that vaccines caused their children to be autistic because onset was coincidental with vaccine administration.

It's the exact same playbook on a larger scale.

---

Even if it is 9k, better than 600k.
When a disease takes hold, it's just bad news all the way around.
This is Life. Life is unfair. Life is suffering. Then we die. Deal with it.

People want the fairy tale version, where all is good and then we live happily ever after, or die in our sleep at 99.

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I agree. mRNA vaccine is better than no vaccine.

By the way, 2,000 alleged vaccine deaths were added to VAERS today. We are now up to 11,000. 4,000 were added in a two week period.