Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

117,156 Views | 2422 Replies | Last: 12 hrs ago by oski003
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
It's a slightly misaligned powerpoint - how do you know if it's deliberate or from some overworked powerpoint jockey?

Without more context it's impossible to say much about this slide. I think after a 30 second review my biggest question is how to compare analysis where one group is 50+ and one is 65+. Without the full context of the deck where this was taken from, I don't really have much to say.

Your hysterics over a minor misalignment are duly noted however.
Yeah, I thought comparing 50+ to 65+ was kind of strange and likely to be an apples to oranges comparison, but I forgot to include it in my post of a few minutes ago.


The 50+ versus 65+ moreso shows a flaw in study design which makes it more difficult to do an apples to apples comparison. With that being said, do you agree that these mediocre results support the argument that mRNA is an inferior tech to protein vaccines? I think it does, especially in light of mrna's inferior safety profile. It does have a speed advantage though.
I'd have to read more than a tweet to give any kind of informed decision as to whether mRNA is an inferior tech to other vaccines.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
It's a slightly misaligned powerpoint - how do you know if it's deliberate or from some overworked powerpoint jockey?

Without more context it's impossible to say much about this slide. I think after a 30 second review my biggest question is how to compare analysis where one group is 50+ and one is 65+. Without the full context of the deck where this was taken from, I don't really have much to say.

Your hysterics over a minor misalignment are duly noted however.
Yeah, I thought comparing 50+ to 65+ was kind of strange and likely to be an apples to oranges comparison, but I forgot to include it in my post of a few minutes ago.


The 50+ versus 65+ moreso shows a flaw in study design which makes it more difficult to do an apples to apples comparison. With that being said, do you agree that these mediocre results support the argument that mRNA is an inferior tech to protein vaccines? I think it does, especially in light of mrna's inferior safety profile. It does have a speed advantage though.
I'd have to read more than a tweet to give any kind of informed decision as to whether mRNA is an inferior tech to other vaccines.


Agree that you can't give an informed decision regarding the vaccine techs. You don't have to. Carry on.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
India believes booster vaccines should be of a different tech than the original shots. This at least holds true if the original vaccines were inactivated or adenovirus.

https://www.india.com/news/india/if-approved-booster-dose-of-covid-vaccine-must-be-of-different-platform-view-by-expert-body-5136127/

While they aren't specifically discussing mRNA in the original series, it may be something to consider as Israel was about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

India believes booster vaccines should be of a different tech than the original shots. This at least holds true if the original vaccines were inactivated or adenovirus.

https://www.india.com/news/india/if-approved-booster-dose-of-covid-vaccine-must-be-of-different-platform-view-by-expert-body-5136127/

While they aren't specifically discussing mRNA in the original series, it may be something to consider as Israel is about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).

If and when I get my 3rd dose I'd like Novavax.

Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Israel is about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).
More false and misleading information from 003. There has been discussion of a 4th shot in Israel but it's certainly not "about to start." You can't help but unethically push your agenda at all times.

Health Ministry advisory board decides against fourth COVID shot, for now

Quote:

Health Ministry experts advising on COVID-19 policy decided overnight Sunday against recommending a fourth vaccine shot for the general population, a measure that has been raised as a possibility by the health minister and the premier.

An advisory panel on dealing with the coronavirus pandemic also decided, along with the ministry's vaccination panel, against reducing the period between receiving a second inoculation dose and a third, booster shot from the current six months to just three months. The idea was considered as a way to more quickly increase overall immunity in the population due to the spread of the new, highly infectious Omicron variant.

...

Regarding other potential vaccine plans, the two panels decided against giving a second dose to recovered COVID patients who have already had one vaccine shot, or a booster to those who have already had two doses and were then infected.

...

A fourth (or second booster) shot just for the elderly or immunocompromised was also ruled out.
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?



What I found interesting is that the doctor stated that people that had SARS virus many years ago, still to this day have the ability to fight off the SARs virus. Since COVID is essentially a derivative of SARS I think it's highly likely that natural immunity will follow the same path.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

India believes booster vaccines should be of a different tech than the original shots. This at least holds true if the original vaccines were inactivated or adenovirus.

https://www.india.com/news/india/if-approved-booster-dose-of-covid-vaccine-must-be-of-different-platform-view-by-expert-body-5136127/

While they aren't specifically discussing mRNA in the original series, it may be something to consider as Israel is about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).


Actually, I didn't realize the health minister delayed the fourth shot today. You really just got hysterical. Impressive. Perhaps they want a different tech for their fourth?

"Health Ministry experts advising on COVID-19 policy decided overnight Sunday against recommending a fourth vaccine shot for the general population, a measure that has been raised as a possibility by the health minister and the premier...

In a statement, the ministry said there was a "consensus on the need to deepen the vaccination of populations that have not yet completed three doses and to bolster the protection of at-risk populations."
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"1 big thing: The Omicron wave is coming

COVID is affecting the sports world in ways not seen since before the vaccine became widely available.

Why it matters: These recent disruptions may portend a fifth wave of the pandemic, spurred on by the highly-transmissible Omicron variant.

NBA: The Bulls on Monday became the first NBA team to have games postponed this season (today against the Pistons, Thursday against the Raptors) as they deal with an outbreak that's already landed 10 players in COVID protocols.

NHL: The league on Monday postponed Calgary's next three games after six players and a staffer landed in protocols. The Flames join the Senators and Islanders as the third team this season with a postponement.

NFL: A record 37 players tested positive on Monday after a weekend that saw at least a dozen other players miss games due to COVID protocols.

European soccer: At least five Premier League teams are dealing with outbreaks a week after Tottenham's outbreak led the league to reinstate emergency COVID measures.

Germany's Bundesliga, meanwhile, is limiting crowd capacity amid rising cases.

College sports: Tulane's men's basketball team is temporarily shutting down amid an outbreak, with all three games this week postponed.

Tennis: Emma Raducanu, the reigning U.S. Open champ who last week was named WTA's Newcomer of the Year, tested positive and is out of this week's event in Abu Dhabi.

The big picture: When the Delta variant hit over the summer, most vaccinated arms had been freshly jabbed, but Omicron's ascent comes as springtime vaccine effectiveness has begun waning.

While it's good news that Omicron appears to cause less severe illness than Delta, the new variant is over four times more transmissible, according to one Japanese study.

An infectious disease doctor in Canada estimates Ontario will have 10,000 daily Omicron cases by Dec. 31, and predicts the Ontario government will close NBA and NHL games to fans.

Between the lines: Boosters more than double effectiveness against Omicron, and leagues are taking notice:

The NBA modified its definition of "fully vaccinated" to include the booster as of Dec. 17.

The NFL will require boosters for its Tier 1 and 2 employees by Dec. 27.

The bottom line: "No one should be in any doubt," U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Sunday. "There is a tidal wave of Omicron coming." Axios
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

"1 big thing: The Omicron wave is coming

COVID is affecting the sports world in ways not seen since before the vaccine became widely available.

Why it matters: These recent disruptions may portend a fifth wave of the pandemic, spurred on by the highly-transmissible Omicron variant.

NBA: The Bulls on Monday became the first NBA team to have games postponed this season (today against the Pistons, Thursday against the Raptors) as they deal with an outbreak that's already landed 10 players in COVID protocols.

NHL: The league on Monday postponed Calgary's next three games after six players and a staffer landed in protocols. The Flames join the Senators and Islanders as the third team this season with a postponement.

NFL: A record 37 players tested positive on Monday after a weekend that saw at least a dozen other players miss games due to COVID protocols.

European soccer: At least five Premier League teams are dealing with outbreaks a week after Tottenham's outbreak led the league to reinstate emergency COVID measures.

Germany's Bundesliga, meanwhile, is limiting crowd capacity amid rising cases.

College sports: Tulane's men's basketball team is temporarily shutting down amid an outbreak, with all three games this week postponed.

Tennis: Emma Raducanu, the reigning U.S. Open champ who last week was named WTA's Newcomer of the Year, tested positive and is out of this week's event in Abu Dhabi.

The big picture: When the Delta variant hit over the summer, most vaccinated arms had been freshly jabbed, but Omicron's ascent comes as springtime vaccine effectiveness has begun waning.

While it's good news that Omicron appears to cause less severe illness than Delta, the new variant is over four times more transmissible, according to one Japanese study.

An infectious disease doctor in Canada estimates Ontario will have 10,000 daily Omicron cases by Dec. 31, and predicts the Ontario government will close NBA and NHL games to fans.

Between the lines: Boosters more than double effectiveness against Omicron, and leagues are taking notice:

The NBA modified its definition of "fully vaccinated" to include the booster as of Dec. 17.

The NFL will require boosters for its Tier 1 and 2 employees by Dec. 27.

The bottom line: "No one should be in any doubt," U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Sunday. "There is a tidal wave of Omicron coming." Axios


Wow! The City of Berkeley has been busy!
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Axios-Ipsos poll: The danger of COVID vaccine mandates - Axios


https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-poll-covid-vaccine-mandates-b9bc1d05-1413-4088-8273-95d3524e8203.html
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

oski003 said:

India believes booster vaccines should be of a different tech than the original shots. This at least holds true if the original vaccines were inactivated or adenovirus.

https://www.india.com/news/india/if-approved-booster-dose-of-covid-vaccine-must-be-of-different-platform-view-by-expert-body-5136127/

While they aren't specifically discussing mRNA in the original series, it may be something to consider as Israel is about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).


Actually, I didn't realize the health minister delayed the fourth shot today. You really just got hysterical. Impressive. Perhaps they want a different tech for their fourth?

"Health Ministry experts advising on COVID-19 policy decided overnight Sunday against recommending a fourth vaccine shot for the general population, a measure that has been raised as a possibility by the health minister and the premier...

In a statement, the ministry said there was a "consensus on the need to deepen the vaccination of populations that have not yet completed three doses and to bolster the protection of at-risk populations."
hey Oski003 check this out
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

India believes booster vaccines should be of a different tech than the original shots. This at least holds true if the original vaccines were inactivated or adenovirus.

https://www.india.com/news/india/if-approved-booster-dose-of-covid-vaccine-must-be-of-different-platform-view-by-expert-body-5136127/

While they aren't specifically discussing mRNA in the original series, it may be something to consider as Israel is about to start their 4th dose of mRNA (due to waning protection).


Actually, I didn't realize the health minister delayed the fourth shot today. You really just got hysterical. Impressive. Perhaps they want a different tech for their fourth?

"Health Ministry experts advising on COVID-19 policy decided overnight Sunday against recommending a fourth vaccine shot for the general population, a measure that has been raised as a possibility by the health minister and the premier...

In a statement, the ministry said there was a "consensus on the need to deepen the vaccination of populations that have not yet completed three doses and to bolster the protection of at-risk populations."
hey Oski003 check this out



I think this is an old video from 2020 and is not relevant here. It is still possible that this is or will happen, but this video is old and therefore misleading in this context.
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
you're right, i looked under the comments and they listed it as march 2020, the date of the tweet fooled me.
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

… the date of the tweet fooled me.

Shocking…
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My jaw dropped, Labor MP Jeremy Corbyn is against vaccine mandates. In the US if a democrat came out against it they would instantly be labled an anti-vaxxer.

Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AunBear89 said:

MinotStateBeav said:

… the date of the tweet fooled me.

Shocking…

Fauci was saying vaccines may not be perfect in the very early days of the pandemic, 9 months before there was any Covid vaccine, yet Minot and the other RWNJs have been calling Fauci an Antichrist for almost 2 years now.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
His argument makes perfect sense if:

1. All non vaxxers were put in a facial recognition software database and denied medical treatment for Covid at the hospital (so medical staffs would not get overwhelmed); and

2. There wasn't such a thing as breakthrough Covid (I know 7 such cases, 2 needed monoclonal infusions).

His frostbite analogy would be brilliant if:
Frostbite was a communicable disease.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Liberal Hypocrisy said:

bearister said:

His argument makes perfect sense if:

1. All non vaxxers were put in a facial recognition software database and denied medical treatment for Covid at the hospital (so medical staffs would not get overwhelmed); and

2. There wasn't such a thing as breakthrough Covid (I know 7 such cases, 2 needed monoclonal infusions).

His frostbite analogy would be brilliant if:
Frostbite was a communicable disease.
1. I'm all for denying non-vaxxers medical treatment for Covid, but that won't happen.
2. Of course there's breakthrough Covid, but the symptoms are generally far less due to the vaccine. Therefore, cases are a worthless measure at this point. For those who get seriously sick, there should be hospital beds available because the emergency really is actually over.

His analogy is, in fact, brilliant because at this point it's a personal responsibility question. Those who haven't been vaccinated will have to take their chances.

1. I'm not for denying anyone access to medical treatment, because I believe in universal health care.

2. If there are regions where hospital capacity is threatened (yes, these exist), then I think the local health officials have good reason to implement further restrictions until capacity frees up. In places where hospital beds are free, it's probably not necessary.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Yes, I already said I don't think the CA mask mandate will do much good.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.


oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.





The vaccines were effective at preventing death but what does this have to do with natural immunity?
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.





The vaccines were effective at preventing death but what does this have to do with natural immunity?
"were effective." Nice.

The relation to natural immunity is that (too) many people believe that natural immunity is a desirable outcome and an alternative to vaccines. There have been numerous posts about natural immunity in this thread, including one just yesterday.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

BearForce2 said:




Regarding Australia, we've discussed situations like this before, to the extent that I'm amazed anybody keeps trying...

Yes, there case rates might be up right now. But up FROM WHAT?

Number of cases to date in the US: 50,000,000 (almost)
Number of cases to date in Australia: 230,000 (almost)

More importantly...

Number of COVID deaths to date in the US: 800,000 (almost)
Number of COVID deaths to date in Australia: 2,100

More people in the US of course, but the per capita number difference is still incredible.

Australia has the distinct advantage of being an island nation, I will concede that, but still...


"Oh, what has Australia accomplished with all of those vaccine mandates, mask mandates and quarantines?!? Their case rates are increasing right now!!!"

That argument is a complete load of crap.


Slow down for a second. It wasn't long ago when tech and social media companies were censoring people for stating that vaccinated people can spread the virus.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.



I don't think this chart is fair for the red states. There are more red states in the South and Covid hits the South harder in summer and the North harder in winter. Based on the starting point of the chart, this picks up 2 summers and 1 winter. To be fair, a chart like this should have equal numbers of winters and summers.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Just another reminder that you really don't want to get severe COVID. It's not clear to me precisely how to interpret the data in this study, but directionally it does point out that "surviving" severe COVID might just mean you live for a few more months before dying of a complication.

https://gizmodo.com/many-severe-covid-19-survivors-go-on-to-die-within-a-ye-1848144418
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?


Covid Porn
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearForce2 said:



Covid Porn

I remember the days when a few hundred thousand needless deaths meant something. Now it's just something to hand wave away with a word or two. Sigh.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.



I don't think this chart is fair for the red states. There are more red states in the South and Covid hits the South harder in summer and the North harder in winter. Based on the starting point of the chart, this picks up 2 summers and 1 winter. To be fair, a chart like this should have equal numbers of winters and summers.


After looking at the figures and comparing them to what is happening now, you are absolutely correct. This is dangerous, divisive liberal vax zealot misinformation.
wraptor347
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's a county-level chart. Some of the seasonality is controlled since there are red counties in blue states and vice versa.

Regardless, you see the same trends w.r.t. vaccination/death rates if you look at counties on a state-by-state basis.

e.g. in California. The NY Times also had some graphs looking at other states and you see the same results.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.



I don't think this chart is fair for the red states. There are more red states in the South and Covid hits the South harder in summer and the North harder in winter. Based on the starting point of the chart, this picks up 2 summers and 1 winter. To be fair, a chart like this should have equal numbers of winters and summers.
Why do you think there have been 2 summers and 1 winter since June 30, 2021?

This chart is reflective of the fact that unvaccinated people continue to do the dying in this country and there is little reason to believe that will change this winter. I have no doubt we will see a nationwide surge of infection among vaccinated and unvaccinated (and it could be stratospheric) but it continues to appear that the vaccines will do a good job preventing serious illness and death and that unvaccinated people will continue to get the worst of it.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

But sure, let's talk about natural immunity.



I don't think this chart is fair for the red states. There are more red states in the South and Covid hits the South harder in summer and the North harder in winter. Based on the starting point of the chart, this picks up 2 summers and 1 winter. To be fair, a chart like this should have equal numbers of winters and summers.
Why do you think there have been 2 summers and 1 winter since June 30, 2021?

This chart is reflective of the fact that unvaccinated people continue to do the dying in this country and there is little reason to believe that will change this winter. I have no doubt we will see a nationwide surge of infection among vaccinated and unvaccinated (and it could be stratospheric) but it continues to appear that the vaccines will do a good job preventing serious illness and death and that unvaccinated people will continue to get the worst of it.


I mean to say 1 summer and 0 winters.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"This chart is reflective of the fact that unvaccinated people continue to do the dying in this country and there is little reason to believe that will change this winter."
But ballots will still be cast in their names for tRump in 2024.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Weight of COVID pushing health care workforce to breaking point - Axios


https://www.axios.com/weight-of-covid-pushing-health-care-workforce-to-breaking-point-892f4cf3-a46e-48d6-8d26-1d5d5b8f15bb.html

"In Kentucky, officials say hospitals have been so overrun in recent months, there have been days hospitals haven't had the bandwidth to help incoming patients, or even find places to transfer them.
Describing one particularly tough day, one chief medical officer in the state told Bloomberg : "Five people died that day and that's what saved us.""*

*This state of affairs is a direct result of politicizing the pandemic, and mocking masks and socially distancing which gave birth to vaccine resistance. This was avoidable. This didn't have to happen. This is tRump's legacy.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.