Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

116,097 Views | 2414 Replies | Last: 6 hrs ago by bearister
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

Malaysians are going to freak out. Very hard convince people getting boosted when their health minister just died from booster dose.

https://thecovidworld.com/chai-koh-meow-malaysia-health-ministry-official-dies-8-days-after-receiving-pfizer-booster-shot-moh-urges-public-not-to-speculate/
Where does this article say that he died from the booster dose?


More dangerous and misleading misinformation from our resident anti vaxxer. He's quoting a known anti-vaxxer website that peddles in misinformation, par for the course for 003.

There is other info out there that says he died of heart disease. This information came out weeks ago and Malaysians aren't engaging in the sort of hysterics that 003 is and that he hopes to see from others. The last thing 003 would want people to know is the truth so he posts this sort of speculative garbage.

Quote:

Health director-general Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah said based on the post-mortem report, Dr Chai died from hemopericardium due to coronary artery disease and myocardial infarction


https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2021/11/26/health-ministry-officer-died-from-heart-failure-not-covid-19-vaccine-says-dr-noor-hisham



What sort of hysterics am I engaging in that Malaysians aren't? That's simply an idiot illogical statement. Clearly, I got the information somewhere.

Despite their seemingly healthy 58 year old senior health official dying of a heart attack 8 days after his booster, the Malaysian Ministry of Health issued a statement to inform citizens that the Pfizer vaccine has not been known to cause any deaths in Malaysia.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/covid19-moh-inform-public-if-any-death-linked-vaccine-says-khairy


You are engaging in your typical anti-vaxxer hysterics by linking to a website dedicated to vaccine misinformation which speculated with no medical basis that someone died from a vaccine. This is no different from people saying that there is a lot of controversy around the 2020 election because Trump said there was. You know exactly what you are doing and don't care about the truth whatsoever.

You are probably just scrambling to discredit the vaccines because over 5 million kids under 11 have had their first doses (2m+ have had second doses) and there haven't been any reports of serious adverse effects. It appears that the reactions of kids are milder than with the teens, which is as you'd expect with smaller doses.

Great news for the world but bad news for 003's dangerous agenda.

oski003 said:


Furthermore,

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.


Ridiculous assertion. Heart disease is the biggest killer year after year. Who cares how an anti-vaxxer misinformation website described the guy, you know nothing about his medical history or condition. You are just shameless and will take any anti-vaxxer statement at 100% face value because it serves your agenda. The vaccines aren't a guarantee of future health. If I stub my toe a week after the vaccine should I submit a VAERS report? You would love to see the numbers go up so you can fear monger.


There is absolutely a medical basis for saying this person died from the vaccine. You have all these pieces of a puzzle in front of you, and you just don't know what to do with them? No, you should not report a stubbed toe to VAERS nor should you completely and ignorantly ignore VAERS just because someone did.
wraptor347
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Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.
oski003
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wraptor347 said:

Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.


The below quote is from a doctor in support of his or her belief that the health ministry official died because of the vaccine.

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.

Obviously, he or she could not be 100% certain without a careful examination of the medial record, which is not available to them. They further believe that if the health official had covid the heart attack would have been determined to have been caused by covid. This doctor is a huge fan of vaccines but not mRNA.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

wraptor347 said:

Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.


The below quote is from a doctor in support of his or her belief that the health ministry official died because of the vaccine.

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.

Obviously, he or she could not be 100% certain without a careful examination of the medial record, which is not available to them. They further believe that if the health official had covid the heart attack would have been determined to have been caused by covid. This doctor is a huge fan of vaccines but not mRNA.
Which doctor? That quote does not appear in any of your linked articles.
oski003
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

wraptor347 said:

Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.


The below quote is from a doctor in support of his or her belief that the health ministry official died because of the vaccine.

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.

Obviously, he or she could not be 100% certain without a careful examination of the medial record, which is not available to them. They further believe that if the health official had covid the heart attack would have been determined to have been caused by covid. This doctor is a huge fan of vaccines but not mRNA.
Which doctor? That quote does not appear in any of your linked articles.


Someone I may personally know who would like to remain anonymous. Someone who likes their job and is a fan of vaccines and is grateful for what mRNA vaccines have done to get us through the past year.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

wraptor347 said:

Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.


The below quote is from a doctor in support of his or her belief that the health ministry official died because of the vaccine.

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.

Obviously, he or she could not be 100% certain without a careful examination of the medial record, which is not available to them. They further believe that if the health official had covid the heart attack would have been determined to have been caused by covid. This doctor is a huge fan of vaccines but not mRNA.
Which doctor? That quote does not appear in any of your linked articles.


Someone I may personally know who would like to remain anonymous. Someone who likes their job and is a fan of vaccines and is grateful for what mRNA vaccines have done to get us through the past year.
Oh well, if you're vouching for a totally anonymous source that may or may not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I guess that settles that.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

wraptor347 said:

Wrong. You're not a doctor and you don't know this person's medical history.


The below quote is from a doctor in support of his or her belief that the health ministry official died because of the vaccine.

Heart failure cannot happen suddenly in a short period of time unless there's either drug induced or viral infection that causes acute cardiac damage. Other causes are likely chronic, like chronic uncontrolled hypertension. That person was described as heathy previously.

Obviously, he or she could not be 100% certain without a careful examination of the medial record, which is not available to them. They further believe that if the health official had covid the heart attack would have been determined to have been caused by covid. This doctor is a huge fan of vaccines but not mRNA.
Which doctor? That quote does not appear in any of your linked articles.


Someone I may personally know who would like to remain anonymous. Someone who likes their job and is a fan of vaccines and is grateful for what mRNA vaccines have done to get us through the past year.

Ah.
BearForce2
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Unit2Sucks
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I talked to a person who says that if there were no obvious side effects in the 7 days following the vaccination, then the heart attack couldn't have been connected. It was tough to get all of the details from this person because they were also drinking chocolate milk and snacking on some fruit during our conversation.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that a virulent anti vax website and a random acquaintance of a dangerous spreader of false misinformation like 003 should be ignored rather than the official story.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Unit2Sucks said:

I talked to a person who says that if there were no obvious side effects in the 7 days following the vaccination, then the heart attack couldn't have been connected. It was tough to get all of the details from this person because they were also drinking chocolate milk and snacking on some fruit during our conversation.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that a virulent anti vax website and a random acquaintance of a dangerous spreader of false misinformation like 003 should be ignored rather than the official story.
Cases of people with no known history of heart disease suddenly dying of a heart attack are numerous and widespread, even among athletes. I could probably name a dozen or so friends and acquaintances who died that way. However, I have to admit that none of them had taken the Covid vaccine as it hadn't been developed yet.
bearister
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Most of the anti vaxxers in the Red States have been a 50 cent cab ride from a heart attack since they were 25 years old.
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oski003
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https://nypost.com/2021/12/08/nih-and-cdc-fail-on-omicron-as-they-have-throughout-pandemic/

Dr. Marty Makary (surgeon at Johns Hopkins) has had some excellent analysis thought this event as well as pointed critiques of our health care delivery systems as well. Find him to be very reasonable, but as he generally contributes to right learning mediums, and as such, he's not a household name. Unfortunately....he's got quite a lot to say....
BearForce2
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oski003
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Alert: Japan Places Myocarditis Warning on 'Vaccines' - Requires Informed Consent.

Japan announces that public and private sectors can not discriminate against those who refuse mRNA vaccines.

https://rairfoundation.com/alert-japan-places-myocarditis-warning-on-vaccines-requires-informed-consent/

For more first hand objective info:

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20211204_12/
bearister
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How Long Does Immunity Last After COVID-19? What We Know


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know
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Big C
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BearForce2 said:




Regarding Australia, we've discussed situations like this before, to the extent that I'm amazed anybody keeps trying...

Yes, there case rates might be up right now. But up FROM WHAT?

Number of cases to date in the US: 50,000,000 (almost)
Number of cases to date in Australia: 230,000 (almost)

More importantly...

Number of COVID deaths to date in the US: 800,000 (almost)
Number of COVID deaths to date in Australia: 2,100

More people in the US of course, but the per capita number difference is still incredible.

Australia has the distinct advantage of being an island nation, I will concede that, but still...


"Oh, what has Australia accomplished with all of those vaccine mandates, mask mandates and quarantines?!? Their case rates are increasing right now!!!"

That argument is a complete load of crap.
sycasey
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When vaccination rates are high, case numbers aren't that important anymore. Deaths and hospitalizations matter. How is Australia doing on those?
bearister
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San Francisco church asks Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone to re-schedule visit because he's unvaccinated - ABC7 San Francisco


https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-archbishop-salvatore-cordileone-vaccine-st-agnes-church-sf/11323584/
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Unit2Sucks
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bearister
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It is so unfair to rob tRumpists of their FREEDOM! like this.

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oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

This is not their Covid Vaccine but just another example of Moderna's unethical behavior. I wonder if they will actually get in trouble for promoting slanted scientific data. These misleading results were published today.


Maybe it has something to do with the y axis on the top two graphs being labeled HAI titer and the y axis on the lower two graphs being labeled GMFR. I don't know what those terms mean but they could easily have very different values, hence the need for differing y axis numbering.


Out of curiosity, Eastern Oregon Bear and others, do you still not understand why these charted results are fraudulent or do you understand and just not care?
sycasey
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bearister said:


I have major doubts that this mandate is actually going to do any good at this point. Counties with high vaccination rates are the areas that least need the mandate but are most likely to follow it. Counties with low vaccination rates will not enforce it.
bearister
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No way that the way up north counties comply.
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AunBear89
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So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
AunBear89
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It's misleading if you failed pre Algebra.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

This is not their Covid Vaccine but just another example of Moderna's unethical behavior. I wonder if they will actually get in trouble for promoting slanted scientific data. These misleading results were published today.


Maybe it has something to do with the y axis on the top two graphs being labeled HAI titer and the y axis on the lower two graphs being labeled GMFR. I don't know what those terms mean but they could easily have very different values, hence the need for differing y axis numbering.


Out of curiosity, Eastern Oregon Bear and others, do you still not understand why these charted results are fraudulent or do you understand and just not care?
OK, I took a closer look at it. One thing I didn't catch previously is that each tick mark on the y axis is double the previous one. That's a valid way of creating a graph though it makes differences at low values look much bigger than they really are and substantial differences at large values look insignificant. That's misleading for people that aren't statistics savvy, but I wouldn't call it fraudulent unless the values being displayed are fictitious.

It's hard to make a full judgement of the graph without knowing what the terms mean (HAI titer and GFMR). Also mRNA implies a Covid vaccine and Fluzone HD implies a flu vaccine to me and that sounds like an apples to oranges comparison. Perhaps they are both Covid vaccines. I don't know.
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

It's misleading if you failed pre Algebra.


Did you sell Oxycontin for Purdue Pharma? What are your thoughts on the chart they gave you to show Oxy was non-addictive? If you looked closely, it was obvious. However, everyone was fooled. What are your thoughts?
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
It's a slightly misaligned powerpoint - how do you know if it's deliberate or from some overworked powerpoint jockey?

Without more context it's impossible to say much about this slide. I think after a 30 second review my biggest question is how to compare analysis where one group is 50+ and one is 65+. Without the full context of the deck where this was taken from, I don't really have much to say.

Your hysterics over a minor misalignment are duly noted however.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
It's a slightly misaligned powerpoint - how do you know if it's deliberate or from some overworked powerpoint jockey?

Without more context it's impossible to say much about this slide. I think after a 30 second review my biggest question is how to compare analysis where one group is 50+ and one is 65+. Without the full context of the deck where this was taken from, I don't really have much to say.

Your hysterics over a minor misalignment are duly noted however.
Yeah, I thought comparing 50+ to 65+ was kind of strange and likely to be an apples to oranges comparison, but I forgot to include it in my post of a few minutes ago.
oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

So, if you are an idiot and don't know how to compare graphs and data, and just eyeball it, you MIGHT be confused.


Keep grasping at straws, genius.


It is deliberately misleading. Why do you defend it? If you were showing this slide on a PowerPoint, the audience would be deliberately mislead and think it was more effective than it is. People on this site didn't even understand it.

Interesting though that you think Eastern Oregon Bear to be an idiot. Gave me a chuckle. By the way, neither he or you are idiots. Rather, you just aren't very objective.
It's a slightly misaligned powerpoint - how do you know if it's deliberate or from some overworked powerpoint jockey?

Without more context it's impossible to say much about this slide. I think after a 30 second review my biggest question is how to compare analysis where one group is 50+ and one is 65+. Without the full context of the deck where this was taken from, I don't really have much to say.

Your hysterics over a minor misalignment are duly noted however.
Yeah, I thought comparing 50+ to 65+ was kind of strange and likely to be an apples to oranges comparison, but I forgot to include it in my post of a few minutes ago.


The 50+ versus 65+ moreso shows a flaw in study design which makes it more difficult to do an apples to apples comparison. With that being said, do you agree that these mediocre results support the argument that mRNA is an inferior tech to protein vaccines? I think it does, especially in light of mrna's inferior safety profile. It does have a speed advantage though.
Unit2Sucks
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A few seconds of research shows that the market was seriously underwhelmed (stock dropped 10%) so clearly these were not promising results. I guess that means their "deliberate" slight misalignment didn't fool anyone.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

A few seconds of research shows that the market was seriously underwhelmed (stock dropped 10%) so clearly these were not promising results. I guess that means their "deliberate" slight misalignment didn't fool anyone.


A few more seconds of research would indicate that the entire covid vaccine sector, especially mRNA, got hammered that day because that day's media narrative was that Omicron evades pfizers antibodies and was mild. Yes, the results are underwhelming. Their misalignment of the charts did not make up for their poor results.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

A few seconds of research shows that the market was seriously underwhelmed (stock dropped 10%) so clearly these were not promising results. I guess that means their "deliberate" slight misalignment didn't fool anyone.


A few more seconds of research would indicate that the entire covid vaccine sector, especially mRNA, got hammered that day because that day's media narrative was that Omicron evades pfizers antibodies and was mild. Yes, the results are underwhelming. Their misalignment of the charts did not make up for their poor results.
There are plenty of articles attributing Friday's losses to disappointment with their flu vaccine. The misalignment of the charts is a non-story, despite the best efforts of anti-vaxxers.
Anarchistbear
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Let's get real- a one month mandate isn't a mandate. It's a recommendation that will be ignored by a bored and no longer trustworthy public
 
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