Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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Since China didn't report to the WHO that there were cases of an unknown disease in Wuhan until Dec. 31, 2019, I highly doubt Democratic politicians were against a vaccine for it in 2019.

---

Why were Democratic politicians so against the vaccine in 2020?

What changed their minds?

BearForce2 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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Since China didn't report to the WHO that there were cases of an unknown disease in Wuhan until Dec. 31, 2019, I highly doubt Democratic politicians were against a vaccine for it in 2019.

---

Why were Democratic politicians so against the vaccine in 2020?

What changed their minds?

---

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Covid surges in 44 states are now slowing



https://mol.im/a/10403061

"With Omicron infections and hospitalizations and deaths surging across America, Osha shouldn't need Congress's specific authorization to impose a vaccine-or-testing mandate at the workplace at least according to supreme court precedent. By ruling otherwise, the supreme court's conservative majority today signals it's willing to strike down hundreds of regulations protecting the health and safety of Americans."

The US supreme court to Americans: tough luck if you get Covid at work


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/14/the-us-supreme-court-to-americans-tough-luck-if-you-get-covid-at-work?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Unit2Sucks said:

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Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

How to verify for yourself that over 150,000 Americans have been killed by the COVID vaccines.

https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/how-to-verify-for-yourself-that-over

Quote:

---

The main conclusion is that we can estimate the deaths 12 different ways, all using different methods and data, and we always come up with 150,000 excess American deaths. The vaccine is the only possible cause of such a huge number of excess deaths. By contrast, the Pfizer Phase 3 trial showed we save 1 COVID life per every 22,000 people who are fully vaccinated (2 COVID deaths in placebo vs. 1 COVID death in treatment cohort), so that is 10,000 lives saved. In short, we are killing at least 15 to people for each life we might save from a COVID death.

---

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

---

Still not seeing it. The study said only 7 Omicron patients went through the ICU so it's hardly a large sample size. This is hardly support for your statement.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

---

Still not seeing it. The study said only 7 Omicron patients went through the ICU so it's hardly a large sample size. This is hardly support for your statement.

---

You can look at the hospitalized numbers. You also don't have to exclude Delta. You can also look at other recent studies.

This tweet is just common sense at this point.

https://twitter.com/NoyesJHumphrey/status/1482584517634260993?t=cbKbihyFbIeIta-s50l4UQ&s=07

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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Since China didn't report to the WHO that there were cases of an unknown disease in Wuhan until Dec. 31, 2019, I highly doubt Democratic politicians were against a vaccine for it in 2019.

---

Why were Democratic politicians so against the vaccine in 2020?

What changed their minds?

---

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

---

But if you are being honest, Biden and Harris were against the vaccine when Trump was pushing that as the solution and promoting warp speed. I wrote here then that vaccine is our only real hope for some sense of normalcy and we will just have to learn to live with COVID instead of trying to eliminate it at the cost of a functioning economy that you can't just shut down and restart. I am glad Biden and Harris came around because they were sounding very anti-science for awhile. They have been doing the responsible thing since then and the other side decided to wear the dunce cap instead. Not saying anything close to the vaccine being without risk but nothing is risk free. Just infinitely better than the higher risk of dying without it since we will all catch COVID sooner or later, probably multiple times.

I still have not had COVID but the shut down had initially been bad for my health. Until I got Tonal, stopped lifting weights since I stopped going to the gym religiously. Stopped teaching TWD or doing MMA. Just doing Peloton wasn't close to enough. Drinking a few glasses of wine every night with dinner was also a bad habit I picked up during COVID. Went from extreme health nut to just doing the minimum until last summer when I decided enough is enough and went back to taking care of my health, cutting out alcohol in weekdays, lifting weights again and traveling again. Still miss MMA but things are never going to be exactly the same. I am sure I am not the only one who was letting themselves go for awhile because of COVID.

calbear93 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

Since China didn't report to the WHO that there were cases of an unknown disease in Wuhan until Dec. 31, 2019, I highly doubt Democratic politicians were against a vaccine for it in 2019.

---

Why were Democratic politicians so against the vaccine in 2020?

What changed their minds?

---

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

---

But if you are being honest, Biden and Harris were against the vaccine when Trump was pushing that as the solution and promoting warp speed. I wrote here then that vaccine is our only real hope for some sense of normalcy and we will just have to learn to live with COVID instead of trying to eliminate it at the cost of a functioning economy that you can't just shut down and restart. I am glad Biden and Harris came around because they were sounding very anti-science for awhile. They have been doing the responsible thing since then and the other side decided to wear the dunce cap instead. Not saying anything close to the vaccine being without risk but nothing is risk free. Just infinitely better than the higher risk of dying without it since we will all catch COVID sooner or later, probably multiple times.

I still have not had COVID but the shut down had initially been bad for my health. Until I got Tonal, stopped lifting weights since I stopped going to the gym religiously. Stopped teaching TWD or doing MMA. Just doing Peloton wasn't close to enough. Drinking a few glasses of wine every night with dinner was also a bad habit I picked up during COVID. Went from extreme health nut to just doing the minimum until last summer when I decided enough is enough and went back to taking care of my health, cutting out alcohol in weekdays, lifting weights again and traveling again. Still miss MMA but things are never going to be exactly the same. I am sure I am not the only one who was letting themselves go for awhile because of COVID.

---

I play a lot of tennis. At some point, everyone had to bring their own can of balls and only use them when serving and people other than the server could only touch balls with their racket. Also, masks were required when not playing, even sitting on changeovers. I am very glad all those rules are gone and tennis is back to normal, with some emphasis on washing hands etc... I am glad that outside life is pretty much back to normal.

oski003 said:

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calbear93 said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

Since China didn't report to the WHO that there were cases of an unknown disease in Wuhan until Dec. 31, 2019, I highly doubt Democratic politicians were against a vaccine for it in 2019.

---

Why were Democratic politicians so against the vaccine in 2020?

What changed their minds?

---

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

---

But if you are being honest, Biden and Harris were against the vaccine when Trump was pushing that as the solution and promoting warp speed. I wrote here then that vaccine is our only real hope for some sense of normalcy and we will just have to learn to live with COVID instead of trying to eliminate it at the cost of a functioning economy that you can't just shut down and restart. I am glad Biden and Harris came around because they were sounding very anti-science for awhile. They have been doing the responsible thing since then and the other side decided to wear the dunce cap instead. Not saying anything close to the vaccine being without risk but nothing is risk free. Just infinitely better than the higher risk of dying without it since we will all catch COVID sooner or later, probably multiple times.

I still have not had COVID but the shut down had initially been bad for my health. Until I got Tonal, stopped lifting weights since I stopped going to the gym religiously. Stopped teaching TWD or doing MMA. Just doing Peloton wasn't close to enough. Drinking a few glasses of wine every night with dinner was also a bad habit I picked up during COVID. Went from extreme health nut to just doing the minimum until last summer when I decided enough is enough and went back to taking care of my health, cutting out alcohol in weekdays, lifting weights again and traveling again. Still miss MMA but things are never going to be exactly the same. I am sure I am not the only one who was letting themselves go for awhile because of COVID.

---

I play a lot of tennis. At some point, everyone had to bring their own can of balls and only use them when serving and people other than the server could only touch balls with their racket. Also, masks were required when not playing, even sitting on changeovers. I am very glad all those rules are gone and tennis is back to normal, with some emphasis on washing hands etc... I am glad that outside like is pretty much back to normal.

---

Agree. I play tennis as well outdoors. Won't play tennis indoors since I cannot play while wearing a mask. Also have been playing golf a lot more with my wife, especially when we travel.

My anecdote. My Aunt just recently got Covid. She is in her upper 60's and has co morbidities. She's fully vaccinated and boosted. It passed like a cold.

dajo9 said:

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My anecdote. My Aunt just recently got Covid. She is in her upper 60's and has co morbidities. She's fully vaccinated and boosted. It passed like a cold.

---

congrats. and of course had she foolishly boycotted shots her outcome could have been much worse.

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

---

Still not seeing it. The study said only 7 Omicron patients went through the ICU so it's hardly a large sample size. This is hardly support for your statement.

---

You can look at the hospitalized numbers. You also don't have to exclude Delta. You can also look at other recent studies.

This tweet is just common sense at this point.

https://twitter.com/NoyesJHumphrey/status/1482584517634260993?t=cbKbihyFbIeIta-s50l4UQ&s=07

---

Kind of a long way of saying that you lied when you claimed that 30% of ICU patients in California are fully vaccinated.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

---

Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

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You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

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Still not seeing it. The study said only 7 Omicron patients went through the ICU so it's hardly a large sample size. This is hardly support for your statement.

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You can look at the hospitalized numbers. You also don't have to exclude Delta. You can also look at other recent studies.

This tweet is just common sense at this point.

https://twitter.com/NoyesJHumphrey/status/1482584517634260993?t=cbKbihyFbIeIta-s50l4UQ&s=07

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Kind of a long way of saying that you lied when you claimed that 30% of ICU patients in California are fully vaccinated.

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Besides extreme bias, I will add poor reading comprehension to your inability to have honest dialog.

Fyi, my original quote was

please bear in mind that around 30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated.

Our current discussion is on myocarditis risk. You were arguing against my logical rationale that you can't assume those vaccinated cannot get myocarditis from covid, and the comparison numbers are therefore inaccurate.

Kaiser So Cal ICU vaccinated numbers at 30% is an example. The hospitalization numbers are similar. I do not know the total percent ICU vaccinated in So Cal bc there is no number that would give us current numbers but the Kaiser study which I quickly referenced in response to you. Whether it is 20 or 30%, it doesn't really matter. The point is that you can get myocarditis from mRNA vaccines, especially if you are a teenager or younger. Furthermore, the protection wanes. You need more potential myocarditis causing shots and / or you can get covid and still get myocarditis. It is common sense.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Pathetic how Rogan tries to spin when he gets an answer he doesn't like. I don't listen to his podcast and haven't heard much from him, but I thought his fans said that he was great because he let his guests do all the talking and didn't inject his own views too much. Not here.

We probably won't see Josh Zepps on Rogan's podcast for a while 😂 pic.twitter.com/Eyff4FJn6p

— Borrachinha Depot (@FullContactMTWF) January 13, 2022

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Moderna rates of myocarditis are definitely higher for 15 year olds than covid caused myocarditis. However, since Pfizer prevention of infection from Omicron is very short lasting anyway, does that impact the cost benefit analysis on the myocarditis argument?

---

When did Moderna receive approval for use in 15 years olds in the US?

1) I don't think so, and I am glad that the Pfizer dose is smaller and it therefore appears safer.

Is there evidence of fully vaccinated people suffering from myocarditis following COVID?

2) it took a long time and overwhelming evidence for the USA to acknowledge that the vaccines caused myocarditis. Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

Taking a vaccine that elevates your risk of (mild) myocarditis may very well reduce your overall risk of myocarditis given how prevalent COVID is and the elevated risk of myocarditis associated with COVID. I would also point out, for the upteenth time, that myocarditis may be the only thing that anti-vaxxers fear, but it's far from the only complication from COVID that vaccination protects you from.

3) I agree that myocarditis is the only non-rare serious risk from mRNA vaccines, at least for healthy individuals. Please stop calling myocarditis mild. I also agree that covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. For the UPTEENTH TIME, covid is worse than mRNA vaccines. I am vaccinated. However, vaccines are supposed to be incredibly safe. Even "inferior" vaccines protect against severe disease. These "inferior" vaccines do not cause myocarditis. mRNA does. Other countries have more than 3 choices. The USA should be better, not worse than the rest of the world.

---

---

You say 30% of SoCal ICU patients are fully vaccinated, but I'm not sure where that is coming from. Here's a quote from the ICU director at Methodist Hospital of Southern California:

Quote:

---

Yes, a majority of the vast majority of the patients who are either in the hospital or in the ICU are unvaccinated at this point. And that goes along the line of with the national data.

If I remember correctly, I think our patients right now, more than 90 percent of the patients who are in the hospital right now with COVID are either unvaccinated or are partially vaccinated.

---

I would love to see the age breakdown but I would be surprised if the 10% who are vaccinated skew young. I know it's in the interest of your agenda to undersell the myocarditis risk of COVID and oversell the risk of vaccines, but it''s pretty clear that the vaccines are supremely effective against serious infection with Omicron and that our hospitals would be overrun with people were it not for the high levels of vaccination we have (85% for seniors).

I can't find the graphic now but I saw something that showed vaccine effectiveness by age cohort and it was significantly more effective for younger people than older people. Something like 50X+ in reducing serious infection in people under 30. I would be surprised if very many young vaccinated people were suffering from myocarditis as a result of COVID infection.

---

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1.full.pdf

---

Still not seeing it. The study said only 7 Omicron patients went through the ICU so it's hardly a large sample size. This is hardly support for your statement.

---

You can look at the hospitalized numbers. You also don't have to exclude Delta. You can also look at other recent studies.

This tweet is just common sense at this point.

https://twitter.com/NoyesJHumphrey/status/1482584517634260993?t=cbKbihyFbIeIta-s50l4UQ&s=07

---

Kind of a long way of saying that you lied when you claimed that 30% of ICU patients in California are fully vaccinated.

---

Besides extreme bias, I will add poor reading comprehension to your inability to have honest dialog.

---

Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

We all know what playbook you are running. You are exaggerating the number of vaccinated ICU patients solely to support your agenda of misinformation against mRNA vaccines.

The purpose of your lie is to mislead people into believing the vaccines don't provide that much protection against severe cases. In reality, we all know that the vaccines greatly reduce ICU admissions across every age group.

Rather than allow the truth to win, you are obsessed with providing as much false and misleading information as you can get away with to make it seem like the vaccines aren't safe and effective.

Here's a recent article in the Salt Lake Tribune (obviously not CA specific).

Quote:

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The trend is clear, and it's a continuing one: vaccinated people fare far, far better in this pandemic than unvaccinated people. Over the last 28 days, for example which will include a mix of omicron and delta unvaccinated people are 2.4 times more likely to be infected, 8.9 more likely to be hospitalized, and a whopping 16.2 times more likely to die than vaccinated people.

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https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/01/15/andy-larsen-how-well-does/

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Look at the study I gave you. Note the following:

49% of symptomatic covid hospitalizations were vaccinated.

99% of symptomatic covid hospitalizations had no previous documented covid infection.

Also, I agree with you that

"vaccinated people fare far, far better in this pandemic than unvaccinated people."

I don't know why you would think I disagree with that statement.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

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He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

oski003 said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

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He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

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Correct, and it wasn't central to my argument. I shifted to stats on symptomatic hospitalizations because the evidence was readily available and possibly more contrary to Usucks' agenda (even if it doesn't really booster my point more than the ICU data, it really doesn't matter). All I was trying to argue is that common sense indicates that vaccinated people can and will get myocarditis from covid.

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I don't get the outrage. No one here who is against vaccine is getting one because of some posting or argument by some random person they don't know in a football board, and someone who wants to get a vaccine has already gotten one. You would think based on accusations lobbed at you that this is some hotspot where brilliant scientific minds come to debate medical opinion.

I, like you, took the vaccine as soon as I could because I prefer the odds of taking the vaccine vs. rolling the dice with a horrible virus. Same with the booster. And if the CDC recommends a fourth, I would get it as well although every single shot has had a bigger side effect for me.

And I see you just presenting your perspective and not trying to discourage anyone from getting a vaccine. No ******* here has ever changed a single opinion here and there are morons here who won't ever say - hmmm - maybe I was wrong. You have trolls who have never posted a single intelligent thought but only provides pictures and insults, people who think posting Twitter or TickTok of strangers is some mind stimulating contribution (never have clicked on a single ticktok link - too many opinions as it is, including my own), and people just debating points for fun. Now to pose as if one is some brilliant mind or to argue that someone has some nefarious agenda is idiotic.

Anyone who has been here even a week knows that not one ******* here has ever changed an opinion, so if someone has a nefarious agenda, this place would be biggest waste of time to pursue that agenda.

dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

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He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

---

That wasn't his claim - after being called out for a false and misleading claim, he changed his story. There was no reference to Kaiser in the first instance. He was trying to baselessly establish that myocarditis from COVID occurs in vaccinated people. You are inferring a different argument that is unrelated to his false claim.

Once again he's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He plays fast and loose with his claims in order to portray the mRNA vaccines as less effective and safe than they actually are. He's proven himself to be untrustworthy here and continues to earn his reputation.

Quote:

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Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

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Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

---

He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

---

That wasn't his claim - after being called out for a false and misleading claim, he changed his story. There was no reference to Kaiser in the first instance. He was trying to baselessly establish that myocarditis from COVID occurs in vaccinated people. You are inferring a different argument that is unrelated to his false claim.

Once again he's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He plays fast and loose with his claims in order to portray the mRNA vaccines as less effective and safe than they actually are. He's proven himself to be untrustworthy here and continues to earn his reputation.

Quote:

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Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

---

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Read a little farther back and stop launching accusations. I was referencing the Kaiser study, which just came out. Nobody has data on all ICU patients. We were discussing myocarditis anyway. Get a grip.

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

---

He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

---

That wasn't his claim - after being called out for a false and misleading claim, he changed his story. There was no reference to Kaiser in the first instance. He was trying to baselessly establish that myocarditis from COVID occurs in vaccinated people. You are inferring a different argument that is unrelated to his false claim.

Once again he's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He plays fast and loose with his claims in order to portray the mRNA vaccines as less effective and safe than they actually are. He's proven himself to be untrustworthy here and continues to earn his reputation.

Quote:

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Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

---

---

Read a little farther back and stop launching accusations. I was referencing the Kaiser study, which just came out. Nobody has data on all ICU patients. We were discussing myocarditis anyway. Get a grip.

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I'm focused on the fact that you are making false and misleading claims in order to reduce confidence in mRNA vaccines.

As you've stated dozens of times, the largest risk of myocarditis is to young men. We aren't talking about 70 year old couch potatoes. Vaccinated young men are far less likely to be hospitalized for COVID and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a single one in the ICU in California right now. You know this, of course, but prefer to mislead by claiming that 30% of ICU patients are fully vaccinated and therefore some must have myocarditis. Vaccinated patients in thr ICU are likely to be old, immune compromised and/or suffer from multiple comorbidities. There is no overlap between that group and the group you concern troll over multiple times per day here. It's entirely irrelevant to the conversation we were having and you know it but you prefer to distract and mislead.

Here's a recent article discussing how phenomenal the vaccines have been in protecting teens. Across a study of dozens of pediatric hospitals they found 40% of teens hospitalized with COVID were admitted to the ICU and that all but 2 in the study were unvaccinated. 98% effective sounds pretty damn good to me. Yeah

Quote:

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Jan. 14, 2022 -- Nearly all teenagers admitted to intensive care units because of COVID-19 were unvaccinated, according to a new study published in TheNew England Journal of Medicine.

Two doses of the vaccine "were highly effective against COVID-19-related hospitalization and ICU admission or the receipt of life support," the authors of the study concluded.

The Pfizer vaccine prevented 94% of hospitalizations and was 98% effective in keeping the young patients out of the intensive care unit, the study said.

The CDC and 31 pediatric hospitals in 23 states did the study, in which researchers looked at data for 1,222 patients 12-18 years old hospitalized from June 1 to Oct. 25, 2021. Included were 445 teens hospitalized for COVID-19 and 777 hospitalized for other reasons.

The study said 40% of patients who tested positive were admitted to the ICU, and all but two were unvaccinated. All but one of them who needed life-supporting interventions, such as a ventilator, were unvaccinated.

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https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220114/unvaccinated-teens-in-icu

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Show us a recent study which says vaccinated people make up 30% of SoCal ICU patients.

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He didn't say that.

He said:

"30% of Kaiser So Cal in covid caused ICU are vaccinated"

Which means that of the people in SoCal Kaiser ICU who are hospitalized because of COVID, 30% of them are vaccinated.

No idea if that is true, but that is the claim.

---

That wasn't his claim - after being called out for a false and misleading claim, he changed his story. There was no reference to Kaiser in the first instance. He was trying to baselessly establish that myocarditis from COVID occurs in vaccinated people. You are inferring a different argument that is unrelated to his false claim.

Once again he's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He plays fast and loose with his claims in order to portray the mRNA vaccines as less effective and safe than they actually are. He's proven himself to be untrustworthy here and continues to earn his reputation.

Quote:

---

Considering that 30% of those in the So Cal ICU for covid are fully vaccinated, you can bet that there is evidence that fully vaccinated people have gotten myocarditis.

---

---

Read a little farther back and stop launching accusations. I was referencing the Kaiser study, which just came out. Nobody has data on all ICU patients. We were discussing myocarditis anyway. Get a grip.

---

I'm focused on the fact that you are making false and misleading claims in order to reduce confidence in mRNA vaccines.

As you've stated dozens of times, the largest risk of myocarditis is to young men. We aren't talking about 70 year old couch potatoes. Vaccinated young men are far less likely to be hospitalized for COVID and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a single one in the ICU in California right now. You know this, of course, but prefer to mislead by claiming that 30% of ICU patients are fully vaccinated and therefore some must have myocarditis. Vaccinated patients in thr ICU are likely to be old, immune compromised and/or suffer from multiple comorbidities. There is no overlap between that group and the group you concern troll over multiple times per day here. It's entirely irrelevant to the conversation we were having and you know it but you prefer to distract and mislead.

Here's a recent article discussing how phenomenal the vaccines have been in protecting teens. Across a study of dozens of pediatric hospitals they found 40% of teens hospitalized with COVID were admitted to the ICU and that all but 2 in the study were unvaccinated. 98% effective sounds pretty damn good to me. Yeah

Quote:

---

Jan. 14, 2022 -- Nearly all teenagers admitted to intensive care units because of COVID-19 were unvaccinated, according to a new study published in TheNew England Journal of Medicine.

Two doses of the vaccine "were highly effective against COVID-19-related hospitalization and ICU admission or the receipt of life support," the authors of the study concluded.

The Pfizer vaccine prevented 94% of hospitalizations and was 98% effective in keeping the young patients out of the intensive care unit, the study said.

The CDC and 31 pediatric hospitals in 23 states did the study, in which researchers looked at data for 1,222 patients 12-18 years old hospitalized from June 1 to Oct. 25, 2021. Included were 445 teens hospitalized for COVID-19 and 777 hospitalized for other reasons.

The study said 40% of patients who tested positive were admitted to the ICU, and all but two were unvaccinated. All but one of them who needed life-supporting interventions, such as a ventilator, were unvaccinated.

---

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220114/unvaccinated-teens-in-icu

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This study shows relative protection of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children against hospitalization in the time period right after full vaccination, and the results are good. 445 kids are hospitalized with covid, mostly, in the South, beginning in a time period a month after Pfizer 12-15 eua (and ending 3 months ago). 777 other kids in the hospital for unrelated reasons are included. The figures show 36% vaccination rate of all kids in the study. Almost every vaccinated kid was within 60 days of vaccination. I am not sure how it translates to now with Omicron and the waning of vaccine effectiveness after 60 days, but the small percentage of hospitalized from covid vaccinated kids had much better outcomes than the larger unvaccinated group.

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/