Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

175,655 Views | 3037 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by bearister
sycasey
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.
B.A. Bearacus
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sycasey said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.
Will be interesting to see how they designed it. I think their backend will at least verify that the address, as entered, is a valid address and that the maximum number of requests have not already been reached for the address. If they really kept it that simple, all on one page (or two max), without another verification such as SSN, maybe it will have the benefit of being really lean, even if the scale of requests will almost definitely be met with some sessions stalling out on day one.
MinotStateBeav
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Meanwhile in China...


Beijing has just been locked down and the CCP officials have locked a multistory business down, trapping workers inside. The Olympics is just a few weeks away...
Big C
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We tend to think of the people in China as always acquiescing to governmental authority, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their zero-covid policy contributing to a whole lot of resentment. The CCP sort of controls the people's access to information, but some of it ends up getting through.
B.A. Bearacus
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Normally wouldn't bother but the clapping was a unique way to capture the evil of Fox News.

MinotStateBeav
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Big C said:


We tend to think of the people in China as always acquiescing to governmental authority, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their zero-covid policy contributing to a whole lot of resentment. The CCP sort of controls the people's access to information, but some of it ends up getting through.
Amen.
dajo9
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dajo9 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:


I'm a sample size of 1, but I've been more sick some years from a flu shot than I have been from any of my 3 Covid vaccinations. Anyway, let's keep working towards better vaccines.
I've had three Pfizer shots with zero side effects from any of them. I spent Christmas in a red state where I felt like I was living amongst a death cult in which people crowded into stores, restaurants, and hotels and did not wear masks. I definitely exposed myself more than usual because the spirit of the season, I guess. Fingers crossed, so far I am healthy.

I wished a colleague from a different red state a happy holiday season only to learn that her husband was in the hospital with Covid. We did not discuss vaccines, but I'm doubtful her husband was vaccinated (upper middle aged white guy in a red state).

Crazy times.
I am very sorry to report an anecdote update. My colleague's husband is going to be taken off the ventilator. He will die from Covid-19.
dajo9
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And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.
Sorry for your loss dajo. Even when it is expected, it's never easy to lose a loved one.
bearister
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Sorry for your loss dajo, may your father rest In peace.
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bearister
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"Between the lines: It's difficult to grasp why, on the precipice of history, the world's best tennis player would choose this path. But to do it any other way would have been a departure from his modus operandi.

Djokovic's obsession with what he puts in his body is unique even among his peers. He's also "a spiritual dabbler, with a weakness for what some regard as quackery," notes NYT's Michael Steinberger.

He follows the teachings of a spiritual guru, who believes in the power of prolonged hugging; his stretching regimen allows him to do things like this; in 2020, he claimed he could clean polluted water with prayer.

Yes, but: "There is an inevitable price to pay for outer-edge mental and physical explorations," writes WashPost's Sally Jenkins. "[And] maybe the biggest toll is the slow creep of narcissism."

"Novak Djokovic injured his legacy ... not because of his vaccination status and unconventional beliefs, but because he imagined his sacrifices were the only ones that mattered. In the hunt for stand-alone greatness, he lost touch with others."
Sally Jenkins

The big picture: Numerous athletes have taken anti-vaccine stances, with superstars like Aaron Rodgers and Kyrie Irving generating their fare share of headlines. But the Djokovic debacle feels different.

This was a global story front page news for weeks around the world. It was about the virus, but it was also about politics, as a world-famous athlete clashed with an entire country.
Rodgers' COVID stance may have cost him some fans, but his legacy should remain largely intact. With Djokovic, there's a sense that he will never be able to escape what just happened in Melbourne." Axios
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B.A. Bearacus
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dajo9 said:

And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.
dajo, I'm very sorry to hear about your dad's passing. It must have been a very difficult past several months (or even years) for you and your family. I feel for you. May you and your family find peace. In the coming time, hope that we (the knuckleheads on here) can do some small part by serving as a temporary distraction from the pain of your loss.
B.A. Bearacus
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sycasey said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.

Fyi, I just ordered the tests from that site. Was in and out in about 2-3 mins.
AunBear89
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B.A. Bearacus said:

sycasey said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.

Fyi, I just ordered the tests from that site. Was in and out in about 2-3 mins.

Ditto. Easy peasy. Got the confirmation email in less than a minute after submitting the form.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
sycasey
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AunBear89 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

sycasey said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.

Fyi, I just ordered the tests from that site. Was in and out in about 2-3 mins.

Ditto. Easy peasy. Got the confirmation email in less than a minute after submitting the form.
Good to see it's working!
BearForce2
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dajo9 said:

And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.

Sorry to hear, may your dad rest in peace.
bearister
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During the Confirmation Hearings for Gorsuch, the following became clear:

1. That he is a solid charactered guy that has deep concern for the welfare of his fellow man;

2. That his favorite sound in the world is not his own voice talking; and

3. That he does not call tRump several times a day asking permission to go to the bathroom.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Eastern Oregon Bear
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AunBear89 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

sycasey said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Fyi, free at home test kits can be requested below starting Tuesday, Jan 19.

https://www.covidtests.gov/

Can't wait for the website to crash.

Fyi, I just ordered the tests from that site. Was in and out in about 2-3 mins.

Ditto. Easy peasy. Got the confirmation email in less than a minute after submitting the form.
Same here. I did it while I was on a conference call cluster**** from hell.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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dajo9 said:

And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.
I've very sorry to hear about your father's death. I'm sure shingles wasn't a pleasant way to go.

The shingles vaccine was the worst one I've ever had. I got the latest version a couple of years ago despite having the earlier 2 shot version a few years before that. I do not recommend getting the shingles vaccine along with the flu and pneumonia vaccines all at once. The flu and pneumonia shots made me miserable for about 36-48 hours then the shingles vaccine (in the other arm) took over for a similar period. That was much worse than the Covid-19 shots I've had. I'm still glad I got those vaccinations even though I ended up spending my time off from work staying home and not doing much.
bearister
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Former FDA chief says another Omicron-like virus strain is unlikely



https://mol.im/a/10413121
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B.A. Bearacus
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oski003
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
Big C
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dajo9 said:

And I may as well share another vaccine related anecdote. My father, dajo8, passed away. It was expected and is a blessing as he had been in pain a long time. He turned down a shingles vaccine and then contracted shingles. Everything went downhill from there.

Deepest condolences, dajo.

Maybe this will be the nudge for me and others to get the shingles vaccine, which is supposedly a pain.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
In this case it was 1 in 1131, not 1 in 10 million. Where did the doctors say it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine?

I did find this:

William Haseltine, a former long-time professor of virology at Harvard Medical School, said the people who Johnson brought in to tell their stories are examples of what already is known about the COVID vaccines that they can cause serious side effects in a tiny percentage of people.

"I don't want to minimize their pain and suffering," he said. "For every one of those people you could bring in 500 to 1,000 who will tell you a story about long (term) COVID or losing a friend or relative. Each one of the stories is a heartbreaker."

You are correct that stories of this happening are rare, and they seem to only exist in non-mainstream outlets. Either it doesn't happen or the media generally acknowedges that they serve little purpose because of Professor Haseltine's rationale.

I do not know what the correct answer is here... It is extremely concerning that her case was not even included in the trial data, which indicates a purposeful cover up.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
In this case it was 1 in 1131, not 1 in 10 million. Where did the doctors say it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine?

I did find this:

William Haseltine, a former long-time professor of virology at Harvard Medical School, said the people who Johnson brought in to tell their stories are examples of what already is known about the COVID vaccines that they can cause serious side effects in a tiny percentage of people.

"I don't want to minimize their pain and suffering," he said. "For every one of those people you could bring in 500 to 1,000 who will tell you a story about long (term) COVID or losing a friend or relative. Each one of the stories is a heartbreaker."

You are correct that stories of this happening are rare, and they seem to only exist in non-mainstream outlets. Either it doesn't happen or the media generally acknowedges that they serve little purpose because of Professor Haseltine's rationale.

I do not know what the correct answer is here... It is extremely concerning that her case was not even included in the trial data, which indicates a purposeful cover up.
it's not 1 in 1131 and you know it. We've had millions of kids who have received the vaccine by now. Why hasn't anyone else suffered this issue if it's vaccine linked? Setting aside whether it should have been recorded in the trial, we don't need to rely on trial data now because we have been using it in the real world. Not just in the US by the way so the number may be much larger than 10 million worldwide, although I don't have that info in front of me.

As for what really happened, according to the girl's mother, the doctors they contacted did not believe it was vaccine related. Here's a story from Fox News with more details.

Quote:

An Ohio mother is speaking out about her 12-year-old daughter suffering extreme reactions and nearly dying after volunteering for the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine trial.

Stephanie De Garay told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Thursday that after reaching out to multiple physicians they claimed her daughter, Maddie De Garay, couldn't have become gravely ill from the vaccine.

"The only diagnosis we've gotten for her is that it's conversion disorder or functional neurologic symptom disorder, and they are blaming it on anxiety," De Garay told Tucker Carlson. "Ironically, she did not have anxiety before the vaccine."

Obviously I have no medical basis for weighing in here. We know that the timing was certainly such that it would call into question a link between the vaccine and her condition. But like I have said a few times now, why haven't we heard any more stories like this? Kids have been vaccinated for months and it's not just in the US. Sadly, this appears either to have been a fluke reaction that this poor girl had to the vaccine for any number of reasons or a terrible coincidence. I believe the family should be compensated and I hope that she recovers and can live as close to a normal life as possible. I don't think her story, without corroboration or evidence that this has happened to other people, should impact vaccine administration.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
In this case it was 1 in 1131, not 1 in 10 million. Where did the doctors say it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine?

I did find this:

William Haseltine, a former long-time professor of virology at Harvard Medical School, said the people who Johnson brought in to tell their stories are examples of what already is known about the COVID vaccines that they can cause serious side effects in a tiny percentage of people.

"I don't want to minimize their pain and suffering," he said. "For every one of those people you could bring in 500 to 1,000 who will tell you a story about long (term) COVID or losing a friend or relative. Each one of the stories is a heartbreaker."

You are correct that stories of this happening are rare, and they seem to only exist in non-mainstream outlets. Either it doesn't happen or the media generally acknowedges that they serve little purpose because of Professor Haseltine's rationale.

I do not know what the correct answer is here... It is extremely concerning that her case was not even included in the trial data, which indicates a purposeful cover up.
it's not 1 in 1131 and you know it. We've had millions of kids who have received the vaccine by now. Why hasn't anyone else suffered this issue if it's vaccine linked? Setting aside whether it should have been recorded in the trial, we don't need to rely on trial data now because we have been using it in the real world. Not just in the US by the way so the number may be much larger than 10 million worldwide, although I don't have that info in front of me.

As for what really happened, according to the girl's mother, the doctors they contacted did not believe it was vaccine related. Here's a story from Fox News with more details.

Quote:

An Ohio mother is speaking out about her 12-year-old daughter suffering extreme reactions and nearly dying after volunteering for the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine trial.

Stephanie De Garay told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Thursday that after reaching out to multiple physicians they claimed her daughter, Maddie De Garay, couldn't have become gravely ill from the vaccine.

"The only diagnosis we've gotten for her is that it's conversion disorder or functional neurologic symptom disorder, and they are blaming it on anxiety," De Garay told Tucker Carlson. "Ironically, she did not have anxiety before the vaccine."

Obviously I have no medical basis for weighing in here. We know that the timing was certainly such that it would call into question a link between the vaccine and her condition. But like I have said a few times now, why haven't we heard any more stories like this? Kids have been vaccinated for months and it's not just in the US. Sadly, this appears either to have been a fluke reaction that this poor girl had to the vaccine for any number of reasons or a terrible coincidence. I believe the family should be compensated and I hope that she recovers and can live as close to a normal life as possible. I don't think her story, without corroboration or evidence that this has happened to other people, should impact vaccine administration.
Thank you for the link to the story. The reason I said it was 1 in 1131 because she was in a trial with 1131 participants. Interesting that the doctors believe anxiety caused her severe condition, despite the timing of the condition post shot and her being in the first mRNA vaccine trial of her age group. She seems to be zealously attacked, likely for the reason you stated... if the vaccine cause this side effect, why aren't we seeing more of it?
bearister
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B.A. Bearacus said:




Judy Collins was the musical guest on the show, so Tommy did a play fake with Funkhouser:

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
In this case it was 1 in 1131, not 1 in 10 million. Where did the doctors say it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine?

I did find this:

William Haseltine, a former long-time professor of virology at Harvard Medical School, said the people who Johnson brought in to tell their stories are examples of what already is known about the COVID vaccines that they can cause serious side effects in a tiny percentage of people.

"I don't want to minimize their pain and suffering," he said. "For every one of those people you could bring in 500 to 1,000 who will tell you a story about long (term) COVID or losing a friend or relative. Each one of the stories is a heartbreaker."

You are correct that stories of this happening are rare, and they seem to only exist in non-mainstream outlets. Either it doesn't happen or the media generally acknowedges that they serve little purpose because of Professor Haseltine's rationale.

I do not know what the correct answer is here... It is extremely concerning that her case was not even included in the trial data, which indicates a purposeful cover up.
it's not 1 in 1131 and you know it. We've had millions of kids who have received the vaccine by now. Why hasn't anyone else suffered this issue if it's vaccine linked? Setting aside whether it should have been recorded in the trial, we don't need to rely on trial data now because we have been using it in the real world. Not just in the US by the way so the number may be much larger than 10 million worldwide, although I don't have that info in front of me.

As for what really happened, according to the girl's mother, the doctors they contacted did not believe it was vaccine related. Here's a story from Fox News with more details.

Quote:

An Ohio mother is speaking out about her 12-year-old daughter suffering extreme reactions and nearly dying after volunteering for the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine trial.

Stephanie De Garay told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Thursday that after reaching out to multiple physicians they claimed her daughter, Maddie De Garay, couldn't have become gravely ill from the vaccine.

"The only diagnosis we've gotten for her is that it's conversion disorder or functional neurologic symptom disorder, and they are blaming it on anxiety," De Garay told Tucker Carlson. "Ironically, she did not have anxiety before the vaccine."

Obviously I have no medical basis for weighing in here. We know that the timing was certainly such that it would call into question a link between the vaccine and her condition. But like I have said a few times now, why haven't we heard any more stories like this? Kids have been vaccinated for months and it's not just in the US. Sadly, this appears either to have been a fluke reaction that this poor girl had to the vaccine for any number of reasons or a terrible coincidence. I believe the family should be compensated and I hope that she recovers and can live as close to a normal life as possible. I don't think her story, without corroboration or evidence that this has happened to other people, should impact vaccine administration.
Thank you for the link to the story. The reason I said it was 1 in 1131 because she was in a trial with 1131 participants. Interesting that the doctors believe anxiety caused her severe condition, despite the timing of the condition post shot and her being in the first mRNA vaccine trial of her age group. She seems to be zealously attacked, likely for the reason you stated... if the vaccine cause this side effect, why aren't we seeing more of it?


Yes, I know why you used 1131 but you know it's no longer a relevant metric. She's now 1 among millions.

I think the fact that she hasn't been treated better and that they haven't moved heaven and earth to figure out what is going on with her is a travesty and hope that all of the advocacy being done for her actually helps her recover and receive the care thst she needs rather than just using her as a pawn in the service of anti vaxxers and grand standing political idiots like Ron Johnson. Pfizer should absolutely be on the hook for determining what happened tk her given the proximity with her participation in the trial.

That said, as time goes on it looks less and less likely that we should be concerned that what happened to her is going to be replicated. Because now we have real world experience both here and in a few countries abroad and we haven't been seeing cases like hers.

Thst won't stop the disingenuous use of her tragedy to sow doubt. I hope that you won't bring her up again, unless there is evidence that this was actually vaccine linked, but I won't be surprised if you do.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

I understand that you do not like the source of this, but why do you think Maddie de Garay's serious side effects were excluded from the clinical trial data?

Why do you think only Fox News is reporting this?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair
Because Fox News has had an obvious agenda for years?

Doesn't mean they're definitely wrong this time, but the mere fact that they are the lone outlet focusing on a topic proves nothing.
What is factual here?

Is Maddie de Garay a real person?

Was Maddie de Garay in the Pfizer adolescent trial?

Is she reporting a serious adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine?

Was this serious reaction published in the trial results?

Why or why not?

Was there ever any sort of conclusion on why this adverse event was excluded from Pfizer's adolescent trial results? Was there ever any sort of conclusion on what caused this? Does the possibility of rare side effects like this and myocarditis combined with Omicron's reduced severity change the analysis on the cost benefit analysis of giving mRNA vaccines to the 5-12 age group? Is Senator Jonhson reckless for having Maddie dr Garay testify? Are health officials reckless for attacking Senator Johnson instead of evaluating the facts at hand?
I thought the doctors have said that it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine. Either way, it's tragic but don't you find it odd that millions of children have been vaccinated and there are no other stories like hers out there?

Her tragedy, whether caused by the vaccine or not, appears to be an outlier at this point. Do you think a 1 in 10 million type of side effect should materially factor into people's decisions to get vaccinated?

Or maybe is she being used by anti-vaxxers in order to advance their dangerous agenda. Naw, couldn't be.
In this case it was 1 in 1131, not 1 in 10 million. Where did the doctors say it couldn't have been linked to the vaccine?

I did find this:

William Haseltine, a former long-time professor of virology at Harvard Medical School, said the people who Johnson brought in to tell their stories are examples of what already is known about the COVID vaccines that they can cause serious side effects in a tiny percentage of people.

"I don't want to minimize their pain and suffering," he said. "For every one of those people you could bring in 500 to 1,000 who will tell you a story about long (term) COVID or losing a friend or relative. Each one of the stories is a heartbreaker."

You are correct that stories of this happening are rare, and they seem to only exist in non-mainstream outlets. Either it doesn't happen or the media generally acknowedges that they serve little purpose because of Professor Haseltine's rationale.

I do not know what the correct answer is here... It is extremely concerning that her case was not even included in the trial data, which indicates a purposeful cover up.
it's not 1 in 1131 and you know it. We've had millions of kids who have received the vaccine by now. Why hasn't anyone else suffered this issue if it's vaccine linked? Setting aside whether it should have been recorded in the trial, we don't need to rely on trial data now because we have been using it in the real world. Not just in the US by the way so the number may be much larger than 10 million worldwide, although I don't have that info in front of me.

As for what really happened, according to the girl's mother, the doctors they contacted did not believe it was vaccine related. Here's a story from Fox News with more details.

Quote:

An Ohio mother is speaking out about her 12-year-old daughter suffering extreme reactions and nearly dying after volunteering for the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine trial.

Stephanie De Garay told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" Thursday that after reaching out to multiple physicians they claimed her daughter, Maddie De Garay, couldn't have become gravely ill from the vaccine.

"The only diagnosis we've gotten for her is that it's conversion disorder or functional neurologic symptom disorder, and they are blaming it on anxiety," De Garay told Tucker Carlson. "Ironically, she did not have anxiety before the vaccine."

Obviously I have no medical basis for weighing in here. We know that the timing was certainly such that it would call into question a link between the vaccine and her condition. But like I have said a few times now, why haven't we heard any more stories like this? Kids have been vaccinated for months and it's not just in the US. Sadly, this appears either to have been a fluke reaction that this poor girl had to the vaccine for any number of reasons or a terrible coincidence. I believe the family should be compensated and I hope that she recovers and can live as close to a normal life as possible. I don't think her story, without corroboration or evidence that this has happened to other people, should impact vaccine administration.
Thank you for the link to the story. The reason I said it was 1 in 1131 because she was in a trial with 1131 participants. Interesting that the doctors believe anxiety caused her severe condition, despite the timing of the condition post shot and her being in the first mRNA vaccine trial of her age group. She seems to be zealously attacked, likely for the reason you stated... if the vaccine cause this side effect, why aren't we seeing more of it?


Yes, I know why you used 1131 but you know it's no longer a relevant metric. She's now 1 among millions.

I think the fact that she hasn't been treated better and that they haven't moved heaven and earth to figure out what is going on with her is a travesty and hope that all of the advocacy being done for her actually helps her recover and receive the care thst she needs rather than just using her as a pawn in the service of anti vaxxers and grand standing political idiots like Ron Johnson. Pfizer should absolutely be on the hook for determining what happened tk her given the proximity with her participation in the trial.

That said, as time goes on it looks less and less likely that we should be concerned that what happened to her is going to be replicated. Because now we have real world experience both here and in a few countries abroad and we haven't been seeing cases like hers.

Thst won't stop the disingenuous use of her tragedy to sow doubt. I hope that you won't bring her up again, unless there is evidence that this was actually vaccine linked, but I won't be surprised if you do.


Trial participants are monitored. Others become uninvestigated VAERS statistics. That is why I used 1131.
For example, this 13 year old boy died in June two nights after getting the Pfizer vaccine.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/5323095001

The CDC didn't investigate...

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-not-investigating-myocarditis-death-jacob-clynick-pfizer-vaccine/
MinotStateBeav
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Big C said:


We tend to think of the people in China as always acquiescing to governmental authority, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their zero-covid policy contributing to a whole lot of resentment. The CCP sort of controls the people's access to information, but some of it ends up getting through.
Just heard a story today, in Hong Kong (now controlled by the CCP) , are going to slaughter every hamster in the region, because one pet shop keeper caught covid from his hamster.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/18/hong-kong-to-kill-about-2000-hamsters-over-covid-concerns/

HIDE YO HAMSTER!
Big C
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MinotStateBeav said:

Big C said:


We tend to think of the people in China as always acquiescing to governmental authority, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their zero-covid policy contributing to a whole lot of resentment. The CCP sort of controls the people's access to information, but some of it ends up getting through.
Just heard a story today, in Hong Kong (now controlled by the CCP) , are going to slaughter every hamster in the region, because one pet shop keeper caught covid from his hamster.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/18/hong-kong-to-kill-about-2000-hamsters-over-covid-concerns/

HIDE YO HAMSTER!

Well, they'd better act fast: 22 months ago, when they were first talking about COVID and using the "new" term "exponential spread", I was all, "Oh, you mean like hamsters!"
bearister
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The end of the Omicron wave is in sight - Axios


https://www.axios.com/omicron-covid-cases-down-4192efd7-1e28-47d3-ac25-37663b1fccdb.html
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
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Only 19% of authors in NEJM and JAMA properly disclosed the payments they got.
wraptor347
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oski003 said:



Only 19% of authors in NEJM and JAMA properly disclosed the payments they got.


They only looked at 31 articles... That seems like a ridiculously small sample to be drawing such broad conclusions from. I can't see much more without making an account, but what i could see was not particularly compelling.
 
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