Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

562,789 Views | 5429 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by Zippergate
bearister
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Your theory puts the rest of us in this position:

Do we trust you and your sources or do we trust UCSF, Stanford Medical School, Harvard Medical School, the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, etc.?

Maybe you will end up being a sage like Mose Allison and the rest of us just chumps.

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oski003
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Meanwhile there has been a drop in routine vaccinations...

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/drop-in-routine-vaccinations?utm_source=substack&publication_id=281219&post_id=138769921&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=1owch8

I blame the govt and Fauci for that.

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Katelyn,

I think you misplace blame on social media for the drop in routine vaccinations.

Facebook was launched in 2004, Twitter in 2006. RFK Jr published "Deadly Immunity" in Salon and Rolling Stone in 2005. On The Daily Show Jon Stewart favorably interviewed RFK Jr later that year [1]. Joe Rogan launched his podcast the end of 2009. By 2022 Rogan had on some 2,000+ guests before finally interviewing RFK Jr. (I'm going to use RFK Jr as a surrogate for the spread of "disinformation").

All the tools for "mis/dis/mal information" have existed for a generation. Look at the google trend for RFK Jr [2]. Zero interest in him for 16 years following his Daily Show appearance. Clearly the arrival of social media did nothing for his reach.

What did make interest in his ideas explode?

As you said:

"Loss of trust in institutions"

Why does this only get a single sentence when it is the *primary* reason for the drop in routine vaccinations in your piece today?

You have a unique position to help the CDC. If you are truly interested in "righting the ship", there has to be self-reflection and accountability for the many mistakes made the past 3 years.

"The Institutions" were wrong about cloth masks, closing schools, vaccine mandates, and the vaccine making you a "dead end" for the virus [4] - all of which were incorrect ideas spread through social media. I'm not here to debate those points because they should be self-evident at this point.

-No one - republican or democrat - is wearing masks any more despite the high support 3 years ago in the West. (barring small echo chamber pockets on social media claiming to do so)

-Even you have admitted that closing schools was an area you were mistaken.

-Every country rolled back it's vaccine mandate once they became overrun with Covid despite 95% coverage.

-All countries except 4 now only recommend the vaccine to 60-65. This year boosters are at 5% uptake so it can't be just "republicans".

-Countries around the world are throwing away unused doses and cancelling contracts.

-Pfizer stock is at a 7 year low, Moderna back to pre-vaccine price of October 2020.

Again, self evident.

The globe has rejected the Covid vaccine just as fast as it embraced it. And it's not a "chicken or egg" philosophical question how this happened. RFK didn't somehow crack into the mainstream conversation, despite 18 years of trying, on his own - it was the failure of PH which made the public go searching elsewhere for answers, and they stumbled upon him.

Public Health suspended the key ethic of informed consent, convinced over half the world that they should mock, fire, and shun anyone who resisted, and is now left holding the bag" after cases and deaths exploded despite their predictions.

People who took the shot and felt like crap, only to feel like crap again when they got the virus anyway are not being "swayed by misinformation" in now rejecting further shots. They are clearly asking a logical question "If Public Health could be wrong on this, what else were they wrong on?"

That is why routine vaccines dropped. It's not rocket science. This was a self inflicted error by PH which created a chasm in trust. Trust is very hard to reclaim.

When someone wants to regain trust, they begin by acknowledging their mistakes and demonstrate contrition. That is what public health needs to do.

All I see is blame. Blame the republicans. Blame social media. Blame Joe Rogan. Blame Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Reddit because they stopped censoring wrong-think.

Step back for a minute. Our government actually paid comedians and screenwriters [3] to promote a brand new pharma product which didn't do what it was supposed to [4], and lead to some of the most cringeworthy television in history [5], and there is no apology for Colbert's "VaxxScene" dance. He used to be funny. Now look at him. [6]

Do you truly want to help PH regain trust? What would that take?

______________________

[1] This is wild to watch to remember how controversial subjects used to be hashed out:

https://www.cc.com/video/uwf623/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-robert-f-kennedy-jr

(someone should archive this video for posterity)

[2] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=RFK%20Jr&hl=en

[3] https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/bidens-hhs-and-cdc-paid-screen-writers-and-comedians-to-mock-the-unvaccinated/

[4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndHlJkSnQ7wqYxUQROcN6jBY154HZOK4Z8pZATC0DbQ/edit?usp=sharing

[5]

[6] https://www.thewrap.com/the-late-show-canceled-tuesday-stephen-colbert-has-covid/
Zippergate
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It's quite simple. Research the trials and see what dosages were being used. If they are not as described by Nass, I'll stop posting here.
MinotStateBeav
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Dr. Malone answers some questions re: CDC/VAERS



Dr. Biss (OBGYN) talks about in her practice miscarriage rates went up 100% from 2020-2022. But the real issue is that Doctors aren't asking patients if they even got vaccinated to get it in their medical history.
bearister
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Part 1

Biden world at a loss over how to stop the growing anti-vax movement - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/20/biden-anti-vax-movement-00116516



"It's become now a politically motivated movement," said Peter Hotez, a virologist at the Baylor College of Medicine who has written extensively about the anti-vaccine movement, arguing that vaccine skepticism has become more embedded in conservatives' worldview than ever before. "But I can't get any engagement out of anybody."

Hotez isn't the only one arguing the administration could be doing more to combat the conspiracies and falsehoods, especially as they emerge more prominently during the current presidential cycle. DeSantis has made opposition to Covid precautions a central element of his campaign, most recently claiming without evidence the latest vaccine isn't safe or effective. And even Trump, who oversaw the record-fast development of the initial Covid vaccine, has acknowledged that fact is doing him no favors with GOP voters, vowing that he's "not going to talk about it one way or the other."

Part 2

Covid eroded trust in vaccines. The 2024 election may make it worse, experts warn. - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/21/covid-vaccines-science-2024-election-00116520

"Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died in this pandemic because of the bad information about vaccines and treatments," said Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health and former White House Covid-19 response coordinator under the Biden administration. "I certainly am worried about what happens over the next three to five years.

Resistance to the Covid-19 vaccine has already spilled over to routine childhood immunizations. Data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention earlier this year show that vaccination rates for kindergarteners dropped for the second consecutive year.

The skipped shots protect against a wide array of diseases including measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, poliovirus and varicella. Together, the CDC estimates childhood vaccines prevent 4 million deaths worldwide every year.

Declining vaccination rates mean these diseases could start to circulate more widely and, with them, vaccine-preventable deaths. In 2019, there were more than 1,200 cases of measles across 31 states, the largest outbreak in the U.S. since 1992."

Part 3

Ron DeSantis is doubling down on Covid vaccine skepticism. It probably won't move GOP voters. - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/22/ron-desantis-covid-vaccine-skepticism-00116526

Part 4

Do GOP voters continue to distrust vaccines? - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/23/gop-voters-vaccines-poll-00117125

"A new POLITICO | Morning Consult poll, conducted as part of POLITICO's ongoing series about the rising anti-vax movement, shows Republican voters are less likely than Democrats or independents to say vaccines are safe for children. It also shows that as many Republicans now say they care more about the risks of vaccines than they do about the health benefits.

The survey results underscore that as the number of voters more doubtful of vaccines has risen despite scientific evidence that they're safe and effective it has come almost exclusively from one political party. While opposition to more established vaccines is still far from a majority position among Republicans, significant numbers question their safety and say Americans shouldn't be encouraged to get them.


Part 5

Anti-vaxxers, flush with cash, now have political power - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/24/anti-vaxxers-political-power-00116527

"Covid vaccines have been the foot in the door for the more general anti-vaccine movement. And unfortunately, that door is open pretty wide now," said Dr. Dave Gorski, a Michigan-based oncologist who has been tracking anti-vaccine efforts for two decades.

The funding spike reflects a sea change for once-fringe entities. The anti-vaccine movement has now emerged as a modern political force. In practical terms, greater funds enable anti-vaccine groups to expand their public reach, sue federal agencies and organize like-minded activists at the state level, as well as expand their reach abroad.

That case, perhaps the greatest policy achievement for the movement to loosen vaccine requirements in schools or workplaces, alarmed public health experts. Depressed vaccination rates have led to more deaths from Covid-19, and have the potential to enable the return of potentially fatal childhood diseases such as measles."
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Zippergate
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Do you truly want to help PH regain trust? What would that take?

How about if public health authorities stop lying to us and stop doing the bidding of Big Pharma.
People like to disparage and ridicule RFK Jr for his anti-vax views but how many of them have actually taken the time to at least read his book and understand what his views are based on?

Autism spectrum disorders have reached epidemic levels in California at 1 in 22 children. It's a calamity and no one seems to be the least bit interested in why. Most people have this axiomatic belief that vaccines are beneficial, full stop, and never stop to consider that just because the MMR vaccine they had as a child was safe and effective does not necessarily mean that all the 35 or so vaccines on the California vaccine schedule are all safe and effective. And people just assume that they've all been safety tested in placebo-controlled trials. They haven't. It's a grand experiment run by a corrupt system of conflicted, compromised experts.
MinotStateBeav
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Not anti-vax. It's anti-covid vax. Big difference.
bearister
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MinotStateBeav said:

Not anti-vax. It's anti-covid vax. Big difference.


As you accused me of before, you clearly did not read the series. It is about the anti Covid vax movement and how it is spilling over to all the vaccines, and that it is people with your political beliefs that are driving the imbecilic movement. Good luck to all you smartest guys in the room, you will be just fine.
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MinotStateBeav
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bearister said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Not anti-vax. It's anti-covid vax. Big difference.


As you accused me of before, you clearly did not read the series. It is about the anti Covid vax movement and how it is spilling over to all the vaccines, and that it is people with your political beliefs that are driving the imbecilic movement. Good luck to all you smartest guys in the room, you will be just fine.

Well we're talking about 1 specific vax in this thread. Literally. I don't care about somebody that doesn't want to take the polio vax. That's up to them. We're talking about the covid vax.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

bearister said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Not anti-vax. It's anti-covid vax. Big difference.


As you accused me of before, you clearly did not read the series. It is about the anti Covid vax movement and how it is spilling over to all the vaccines, and that it is people with your political beliefs that are driving the imbecilic movement. Good luck to all you smartest guys in the room, you will be just fine.

Well we're talking about 1 specific vax in this thread. Literally. I don't care about somebody that doesn't want to take the polio vax. That's up to them. We're talking about the covid vax.

The more people who refuse to take the polio vax, the more we ruin herd immunity for polio (particularly for babies and people who are immunocompromised). Yay!
bearister
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It is the discussion in this thread that led me to research what motivates your stance and I stumbled on Politico's 5 part series and it can't be dismissed with canned shallow, flippant and cynical sound bites and talking points.
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Zippergate
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I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.
bearister
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Then don't get any vax of any kind. Your choice. The people that are not convinced will never be convinced (and millions of them will never be convinced that tRump didn't win the 2020 Election), much like I most likely will never be convinced by the opposition to the Covid and other vaccines by anyone who comments here and the sources they rely on.

I will continue to put my lot in with UCSF, Stanford, Harvard, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, et al and I am unimpressed by the attempt to discredit their advice and guidance by alleging that they are all corrupt, in the pocket of Big Pharma and either intentionally or recklessly harming the physical well being of the citizenry.
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Big C
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Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.

COVID was a much more serious disease when so little of the population had any immunity to it (either through having been vaccinated or having had the disease itself).
sycasey
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Big C said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.

COVID was a much more serious disease when so little of the population had any immunity to it (either through having been vaccinated or having had the disease itself).

Yeah, all "no one wants them anymore" means is that people got the shot and moved on.
Big C
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sycasey said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.

COVID was a much more serious disease when so little of the population had any immunity to it (either through having been vaccinated or having had the disease itself).

Yeah, all "no one wants them anymore" means is that people got the shot and moved on.

People including Republican members of Congress, who then declined to state that they had been vaccinated because freedom. But some of their ignorant constituents got got.
MinotStateBeav
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Big C said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.

COVID was a much more serious disease when so little of the population had any immunity to it (either through having been vaccinated or having had the disease itself).

Yeah, all "no one wants them anymore" means is that people got the shot and moved on.

People including Republican members of Congress, who then declined to state that they had been vaccinated because freedom. But some of their ignorant constituents got got.
Except it had a lot more to do with the fact that the "vax" bypassed all actual requirements of safety to get passed to general use and used the population itself as the test subjects. Some people were happy to do so, some weren't. The fact there was a call to outcast those people who chose not to become test subjects rightly deserves the criticism they are getting. Including those of you on this board.

Now that we've discovered that in order to get an EUA they had to fraudulently declare that no other drugs could be used to treat covid in order to bypass those safety restrictions and that our own government was involved in the coverup is a massive scandal. Because then they gave the pharmaceutical corps blanket immunity from prosecution. The whole reason Trump gave the okay for Operation Warp Speed was because he was told the covid virus had a 3.9% death rate that was a number they completely pulled out of their collective a55es. They didn't even perform the smallest amount of sampling to get that number, they simply lied like they did with many other things.
tequila4kapp
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Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.
Most people in our society accept a certain level of risk. The Covid epidemic had death rates that were so excessive that it freaked people out and drove them toward certain behaviors (getting vaccinated, isolating, wearing masks, hand washing). Perhaps it is simply the case that death rates from Covid have now moved back into the realm of being not necessarily acceptable, but in a normal range that doesn't inspire special behaviors. In other words, more like what we see with the flu vaccine.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.
Most people in our society accept a certain level of risk. The Covid epidemic had death rates that were so excessive that it freaked people out and drove them toward certain behaviors (getting vaccinated, isolating, wearing masks, hand washing). Perhaps it is simply the case that death rates from Covid have now moved back into the realm of being not necessarily acceptable, but in a normal range that doesn't inspire special behaviors. In other words, more like what we see with the flu vaccine.
I think that is what happened.
Zippergate
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tequila4kapp said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.
Most people in our society accept a certain level of risk. The Covid epidemic had death rates that were so excessive that it freaked people out and drove them toward certain behaviors (getting vaccinated, isolating, wearing masks, hand washing). Perhaps it is simply the case that death rates from Covid have now moved back into the realm of being not necessarily acceptable, but in a normal range that doesn't inspire special behaviors. In other words, more like what we see with the flu vaccine.
That's an interesting theory. So why isn't that the case with the flu vaccine? Flu vaccine uptake is greater than 50% every year. Why is the latest Covid booster at less than 5%? Are we to believe that Americans view Covid as less dangerous than the flu? Doubtful. Perhaps Americans believe the Covid vaccine is less efficacious than the flu vaccine. Possible. Everyone knows a vaccinated person who has had Covid several times. Flu vaccine efficacy is also very poor but the perception is that it is effective so that's a point in favor of this theory.

The best explanation is that Americans know that the Covid vaccines have been oversold. The efficacy is much weaker and less durable than touted, and side effects are much worse and are being covered up. And yet the medical establishment is still pushing them on the public. Are we really surprised that distrust of these medical authorities is increasing?

As for the repeated appeals to authority being made here, I'm not a doctor or scientist but even I know that people who have just recovered from a virus don't need a vaccine to prevent them from getting said virus. Yet everyone was told to get the vaccine regardless of their Covid status. And young people, who had very low risk of Covid, were forced to receive it despite known serious side effects that were particular to their age group. And yet your trusted authorities DID NOTHING to stop it. It was madness. They caved to the political pressure. Credibility and trust is a fragile thing. You don't get to relax your standards when it's inconvenient. That's not how it works.
oski003
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Zippergate said:

tequila4kapp said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.
Most people in our society accept a certain level of risk. The Covid epidemic had death rates that were so excessive that it freaked people out and drove them toward certain behaviors (getting vaccinated, isolating, wearing masks, hand washing). Perhaps it is simply the case that death rates from Covid have now moved back into the realm of being not necessarily acceptable, but in a normal range that doesn't inspire special behaviors. In other words, more like what we see with the flu vaccine.
That's an interesting theory. So why isn't that the case with the flu vaccine? Flu vaccine uptake is greater than 50% every year. Why is the latest Covid booster at less than 5%? Are we to believe that Americans view Covid as less dangerous than the flu? Doubtful. Perhaps Americans believe the Covid vaccine is less efficacious than the flu vaccine. Possible. Everyone knows a vaccinated person who has had Covid several times. Flu vaccine efficacy is also very poor but the perception is that it is effective so that's a point in favor of this theory.

The best explanation is that Americans know that the Covid vaccines have been oversold. The efficacy is much weaker and less durable than touted, and side effects are much worse and are being covered up. And yet the medical establishment is still pushing them on the public. Are we really surprised that distrust of these medical authorities is increasing?

As for the repeated appeals to authority being made here, I'm not a doctor or scientist but even I know that people who have just recovered from a virus don't need a vaccine to prevent them from getting said virus. Yet everyone was told to get the vaccine regardless of their Covid status. And young people, who had very low risk of Covid, were forced to receive it despite known serious side effects that were particular to their age group. And yet your trusted authorities DID NOTHING to stop it. It was madness. They caved to the political pressure. Credibility and trust is a fragile thing. You don't get to relax your standards when it's inconvenient. That's not how it works.


It is a lack of trust that is now spilling over into a lack of trust for all vaccines. The government messed up with too many lies and coverups.
tequila4kapp
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This isn't going to sound very nice but a lot of our fellow Americans just are not very (pick a word) smart / informed / curious / data driven / analytical. When is the last time you saw a report on mainstream media about Covid deaths? Out of mind...

The flu shot has a different dynamic. It has been with us forever and nobody really gets that shot to avoid death, they get it to avoid those miserable handful of days when you feel like crappola. It is part of our fabric, not a response to a crisis. I suspect people think the Covid crisis is over, move on.
Big C
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MinotStateBeav said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

Zippergate said:

I find it fascinating that in promoting the Covid vaccines, the public health authorities engaged in the most comprehensive, aggressive public health campaign in history. And yet no one wants them anymore. A large percentage of the population is convinced that either they have been injured by the vaccines or know someone who has. And the only explanation you people can offer is that the anti-vax movement has brainwashed the country, the world even.

COVID was a much more serious disease when so little of the population had any immunity to it (either through having been vaccinated or having had the disease itself).

Yeah, all "no one wants them anymore" means is that people got the shot and moved on.

People including Republican members of Congress, who then declined to state that they had been vaccinated because freedom. But some of their ignorant constituents got got.
Except it had a lot more to do with the fact that the "vax" bypassed all actual requirements of safety to get passed to general use and used the population itself as the test subjects. Some people were happy to do so, some weren't. The fact there was a call to outcast those people who chose not to become test subjects rightly deserves the criticism they are getting. Including those of you on this board.

Now that we've discovered that in order to get an EUA they had to fraudulently declare that no other drugs could be used to treat covid in order to bypass those safety restrictions and that our own government was involved in the coverup is a massive scandal. Because then they gave the pharmaceutical corps blanket immunity from prosecution. The whole reason Trump gave the okay for Operation Warp Speed was because he was told the covid virus had a 3.9% death rate that was a number they completely pulled out of their collective a55es. They didn't even perform the smallest amount of sampling to get that number, they simply lied like they did with many other things.

I'm not saying you're making up the "3.9% death rate" figure that was supposedly given to Trump, or working its way around, but from almost the very beginning, if you read about "the novel coronavirus", death rates were being estimated at about 0.5-to-1%, probably closer to the former.

(If you have something that confirms that Trump was told 3.9%, you don't need to show it as, again, I am not doubting that except to say that that was not the % that most people were figuring, going back to Feb-March, 2020.)

And now, it's way below that (except for certain people), since most everybody has had the virus and/or the vaccine.
Zippergate
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Lots of good data on excess mortality from a reliable, disinterested party. For the young, persistent, very elevated excess mortality in the young is partially attributable to accidents and drug overdoses, but the real standout is "other." To be clear, non-covid. Be sure to see the charts on pp. 26, 27, 31, 32.

https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf

"The purpose of this survey was to gather a high-level view of U.S. Group Term Life Insurance mortality results during the COVID-19 pandemic, as compared to prior period baseline mortality results.

The survey was conducted by the Group Life Experience Committee (the Committee) of the Society of Actuaries Research Institute and has been structured as a recurring monthly data collection and compilation process from U.S. Group Term Life insurers."









movielover
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Zippergate said:

It's quite simple. Research the trials and see what dosages were being used. If they are not as described by Nass, I'll stop posting here.



Didn't Pfizer vaxx their control group?
Zippergate
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movielover said:

Zippergate said:

It's quite simple. Research the trials and see what dosages were being used. If they are not as described by Nass, I'll stop posting here.



Didn't Pfizer vaxx their control group?
They did, six months after the trial began IIRC.
But this challenge was related to an article I linked showing how the WHO and Gates Foundation deliberately sabotaged HCQ clinical trials. No one has taken me up on the offer so I guess I will keep posting.
movielover
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I believe Ivermectin... I mean horse meds... helped protect Mexico, India, and African countries.
calpoly
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tequila4kapp said:

This isn't going to sound very nice but a lot of our fellow Americans just are not very (pick a word) smart / informed / curious / data driven / analytical. When is the last time you saw a report on mainstream media about Covid deaths? Out of mind...

The flu shot has a different dynamic. It has been with us forever and nobody really gets that shot to avoid death, they get it to avoid those miserable handful of days when you feel like crappola. It is part of our fabric, not a response to a crisis. I suspect people think the Covid crisis is over, move on.
The elderly get the shot to avoid death.
bearister
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Mysterious pneumonia outbreak leaves China's hospitals 'overwhelmed with sick children' | Evening Standard


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/mysterious-pneumonia-outbreak-china-hospitals-sick-children-b1122117.html
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Big C
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Zippergate said:

movielover said:

Zippergate said:

It's quite simple. Research the trials and see what dosages were being used. If they are not as described by Nass, I'll stop posting here.



Didn't Pfizer vaxx their control group?
They did, six months after the trial began IIRC.
But this challenge was related to an article I linked showing how the WHO and Gates Foundation deliberately sabotaged HCQ clinical trials. No one has taken me up on the offer so I guess I will keep posting.

I have to think that, somehow, George Soros had a hand in this, too!
Zippergate
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Big C said:

Zippergate said:

movielover said:

Zippergate said:

It's quite simple. Research the trials and see what dosages were being used. If they are not as described by Nass, I'll stop posting here.



Didn't Pfizer vaxx their control group?
They did, six months after the trial began IIRC.
But this challenge was related to an article I linked showing how the WHO and Gates Foundation deliberately sabotaged HCQ clinical trials. No one has taken me up on the offer so I guess I will keep posting.

I have to think that, somehow, George Soros had a hand in this, too!
Are we saying that the WHO and Gates Foundation were not involved in trials for HCQ? Happy to be proven wrong if you can show me that they weren't. If they were, then perhaps you can explain to me how this is humorous.
TheFiatLux
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Big C said:


After everything that people have had to go through the past year+, i think anybody who chooses to NOT get a vaccine (rare health exemptions aside), should be completely marginalized. Here we're lucky to have a way out of this mess and some people can't even hold out their arm for a free solution.
Your nationally known third grade teacher failed you.
movielover
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Big C
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TheFiatLux said:

Big C said:


After everything that people have had to go through the past year+, i think anybody who chooses to NOT get a vaccine (rare health exemptions aside), should be completely marginalized. Here we're lucky to have a way out of this mess and some people can't even hold out their arm for a free solution.
Your nationally known third grade teacher failed you.

Props to you, TFL, for doing your history research and for (not inappropriately) weaving two threads together! You make a good point!

I don't know how long ago I posted that (over two years ago?), but to me, it stands the test of time. We were in the middle of a pandemic. Many, many Americans died from COVID after the vaccine was widely available. Most of those deaths didn't need to happen.

Others' opinions may differ on the COVID vaccine and such. Respect.


(FYI to those not-in-the-know: The reference to my third grade teacher was from a different thread. Fun fact, she was featured in a Saturn commercial. Best.Teacher. Ever.)
Zippergate
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Here's a blockbuster article about how DNA contamination in the Covid vaccines may be causing an increase in cancer rates. Recall that the vaccines underwent safety studies prior to emergency use approval, but Pfizer and Moderna switched to a completely different production process to manufacture the vaccines mass produced for the public because it was faster and cheaper. Unfortunately, this second process resulted in serious DNA contamination that exceeds that standards set by the FDA. Such contamination is believed to cause cancer.

According to the FDA's own criteria, there is a safety signal in several cancers. Strangely, the FDA has no interest in holding Pfizer accountable for completing the studies to test "Process 2" that it required when the vaccine was approved for emergency use. Why? Apparently, it's because of the 'extensive usage of vaccines manufactured via "Process 2".' Translation: The process 2 vaccine which everyone admits should have been tested doesn't need to be tested anymore because it's already been administered to billions of people. How reassuring. On the bright side, without studies, UCSF, Stanford, Harvard, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, et al will undoubtedly have no trouble continuing to recommend the jabs.

https://blog.maryannedemasi.com/p/fda-shuts-down-enquiries-about-dna

"When I asked the FDA for access to the "ongoing" results, I was instructed to obtain the information from Pfizer, but the drug company did not respond to my enquiries.
A Freedom of Information request by Nick Hunt of The Daily Sceptic may explain why.
Pfizer promised the regulator it would compare the safety and immunogenicity of the two processes in participants and report back by February 2021, but it seems those studies were never done.
The FOI stated:
Quote:

…in October 2020 an exploratory objective was added in the C4591001 study to describe safety and immunogenicity of vaccines produced by manufacturing "Process 1" or "Process 2" in participants 16 to 55 years of age. This exploratory objective was removed and documented in protocol amendment 20 in September 2022 due to the extensive usage of vaccines manufactured via "Process 2". Thus, this process comparison was not conducted as part of the formal documentation within the protocol amendment.[emphasis added]
"
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