txwharfrat said:

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71Bear said:

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txwharfrat said:

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calumnus said:

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oskidunker said:

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https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-cougars-football/2021/10/18/22731674/nick-rolovich-fired-coach-wsu-cougars-covid-vaccine

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He gave up a $3 million a year job because he didn't want to gett a vaccine that millions have received with no ill effects (and plenty of good effect). Stupid is as stupid does.

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He is a man of conviction. People who don't have that will never understand and will always resort to calling those that do "stupid".

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Given his leadership position at the University, he has totally failed those he was hired to lead. That wasn't stupid. That was complete abdication of responsibility.

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He taught his team that there are consequences to your actions and behaviors. And he taught his team that some times in life you need to take a stand and let the chips fall where they may. That is a better life lesson than "give up your personal convictions for fear of the big bad government entity holding a gun to your head". More university instructors need to teach lessons like this.

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He taught his team that he is a coward. He taught his team that selfish behavior trumps the essence of football - the team is greater than any individual.

Rolovich is a fraud. He never cared about his team. He was only interested in himself…..

txwharfrat said:

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calumnus said:

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oskidunker said:

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https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-cougars-football/2021/10/18/22731674/nick-rolovich-fired-coach-wsu-cougars-covid-vaccine

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He gave up a $3 million a year job because he didn't want to gett a vaccine that millions have received with no ill effects (and plenty of good effect). Stupid is as stupid does.

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He is a man of conviction. People who don't have that will never understand and will always resort to calling those that do "stupid".

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Why do you think I have no convictions just because I do not share his? There are other/better things to believe in.

There are people who are convinced the Earth is flat and will not believe otherwise no matter the evidence. That does not make them smart. At least their conviction doesn't hurt anyone else.

I take it you aren't vaccinated for COVID. I understand hesitancy, but are you saying you personally would give up a $3 million job and bail on your players over not getting a vaccine? Have you had other vaccines in your lifetime?

Just get vaccinated, for you, your family, for your country and world. It doesn't hurt. It won't hurt you. I value your contribution to this board and want you to stick around. I just wish all the people I know that does of this last year (including ex-Cal football players) had a chance to get vaccinated.

txwharfrat said:

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71Bear said:

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txwharfrat said:

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calumnus said:

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oskidunker said:

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https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-cougars-football/2021/10/18/22731674/nick-rolovich-fired-coach-wsu-cougars-covid-vaccine

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He gave up a $3 million a year job because he didn't want to gett a vaccine that millions have received with no ill effects (and plenty of good effect). Stupid is as stupid does.

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He is a man of conviction. People who don't have that will never understand and will always resort to calling those that do "stupid".

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Given his leadership position at the University, he has totally failed those he was hired to lead. That wasn't stupid. That was complete abdication of responsibility.

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He taught his team that there are consequences to your actions and behaviors. And he taught his team that some times in life you need to take a stand and let the chips fall where they may. That is a better life lesson than "give up your personal convictions for fear of the big bad government entity holding a gun to your head". More university instructors need to teach lessons like this.

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You have him confused with Colin Kaepernick.

txwharfrat said:

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ducky23 said:

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txwharfrat said:

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okaydo said:

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So what if he was secretive about what he believed in?

COLUMN: No sympathy for Nick Rolovich after Washington State fired him. Not just because he refused the vaccine - but because he never said what it is he actually believes in https://t.co/QVQSMGOMeg via @USATODAY

— Dan Wolken (@DanWolken) October 19, 2021

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The government needs to know your thoughts and beliefs. They need to know if you have joined the collective Borg or not.

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You do understand that the "government" has not demanded to know his thoughts or beliefs.

And that the "government" has not demanded he receive the vaccine.

You get that right?

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You do understand that Washington is a state, correct? This was not a WSU mandate but a state mandate put in place by governor Inslee. All state employees of any kind must accept the vaccine or be fired. The state is the government. please tell me you get this.

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In this case the state is simply his employer. Employers have the right and responsibility to set and enforce health and safety standards for their employees. He is free to leave one employer that requires vaccinations and find another employer who does not.

Who here thought Leach's replacement would be crazier than him?

txwharfrat said:

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oskidunker said:

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Conviction to put other people at risk, especially the young people he mentors. Your right, I don't understand it. Selfish attitude.

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What did he teach his players? Perhaps what more universities need to be teaching. There are consequences for your actions and behaviors. And sometimes you need to stand your ground and take what will fall upon you. Rolo will be fine and make a ton of money somewhere else in this free country.

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Go sell this **** somewhere else.

cccbear04 said:

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Yup he has every right to not get the vaccine but zero right to remain a state employee…

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The courts will decide and I think they'll come down on his side.

Those of you who are belittling him - do you know if he's had COVID? do you know his religious beliefs? do you know if he's been advised by his doctor not to get vaccinated because of some other health condition he might have? do you know if he doubts the CDC and FDA's evidence? do you know if he's just exercising his Constitutional rights? How much do you know about this case?

Guy's got balls, I'll tell you that. Would you give up that gig because of your personal beliefs?

It was a good fire. Wash St displayed solid conviction and follow-through with no waffling about ridding idiocy from the presence of important yet impressionable young men.

LateHit said:

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The guys at the muffler shop and the hunting lodge must be impressed by his conviction.
If you can impress that demographic, you must be a man.

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As someone who was fully vaccinated at the first opportunity, I would love for all of us to return closer to normal, with the only path I see being higher vaccination rate.

Not to target you specifically, it does seem like bullying tendency of choosing the easiest targets seems to be the same as it always has been. And it seems like less educated or economically disadvantaged folks, especially if they are white, seem to be the target of choice here.

Just to be clear, despite media's biased coverages, minorities and young people are a significant cause of overall hesitancy. For the minorities, this is most likely based on a historical basis for lack of trust in the government and "science."
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-by-race-ethnicity/
Our government and "scientist" have some credibility issues with persons of color based on historical misdeeds.

And for young people, it's mostly selfishness, thinking they are not at high risk. Sacrifice is harder when it's about actually having to sacrifice.

If we are going to solve this, it isn't by playing more political games or bullying. It is trying to understand the basis for the hesitancy and addressing those concerns. And maybe a mandate is the path forward, but I wish to be humble enough to try to see the actual facts and hear others' perspective on why they are not doing something I view as necessary for the greater good.

59bear said:

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txwharfrat said:

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ducky23 said:

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txwharfrat said:

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okaydo said:

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So what if he was secretive about what he believed in?

COLUMN: No sympathy for Nick Rolovich after Washington State fired him. Not just because he refused the vaccine - but because he never said what it is he actually believes in https://t.co/QVQSMGOMeg via @USATODAY

— Dan Wolken (@DanWolken) October 19, 2021

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The government needs to know your thoughts and beliefs. They need to know if you have joined the collective Borg or not.

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You do understand that the "government" has not demanded to know his thoughts or beliefs.

And that the "government" has not demanded he receive the vaccine.

You get that right?

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You do understand that Washington is a state, correct? This was not a WSU mandate but a state mandate put in place by governor Inslee. All state employees of any kind must accept the vaccine or be fired. The state is the government. please tell me you get this.

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There is provision in the directive for exceptions on religious or medical grounds (Rolovich's request for exemption was denied) or for job modification (e.g., working remotely) if feasible. Chun made the decision that effective modification would not be workable. As far as I know, Rolovich's reason was never made public. Perhaps as big a deal s his firing is the departure of several of his staff. The Coug's will be very shorthanded on the coaching level.

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The religious or medical exemptions are requirements for equal protection / ADA reasons, right? Whether Inslee did this or not, the WH executive order relating to federal contractors and the pending OSHA requirement for employers with more than 100 employees will make this mandate national. Not too many large employers do not provide some services to the federal government. I think it is the right move, and freedom has a cost. And we make decisions often based on the greater good over no consequences for exercising personal freedom.

The Nets and WSU will not be the only ones dealing with this in the sports world.

I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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They knew full well the would lose their jobs. The fired themselves.

CalWSportsFan said:

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There's also strong Supreme Court precedent supporting vaccine mandates:

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

Quote:

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The year was 1904, and when his politically charged legal challenge to the $5 fine for failing to get vaccinated made its way to the Supreme Court, the justices had a surprise for Rev. Jacobson. One man's liberty, they declared in a 7-2 ruling handed down the following February, cannot deprive his neighbors of their own liberty in this case by allowing the spread of disease. Jacobson, they ruled, must abide by the order of the Cambridge board of health or pay the penalty.


"There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good," read the majority opinion. "On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy."

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[url=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280][/url]

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'71 redux. Stop playing lawyers guys. The precedent set in Jacobson has never been overturned but also is not on point, as that the court was deciding the constitutionality of a law, as opposed to the legality of the Governor or Washington issuing an executive order. There is express language that "a state can enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine." Without going into a separation of powers discussion, there is a huge difference between an arbitrary act by a public official and a legislative mandate.


The other issue is the application of superseding federal statutes which require accommodation based on medical reasons or sincerely held religious belief. I don't know the specifics of Rollo's arguments, but I suspect his lawyers will make the case that the AD does not have the right second guess his beliefs or medical issues. That is a facts and circumstances determination, and Rollo may not prevail in proving his claims were legit or made in good faith.

For those that care, the legal articles have dismissed Jacobson because it doesn't apply to Biden's federal mandate, and its reliance on legislative action. Relying on a agenda based rag like Politico for legal opinions is dangerous,.

There is another side to this as well. The AD said Rollo was fired for not following the Governor's order to get vaccinated. But under most labor laws in most states, employers have the right to set their terms and conditions of employment including mandating vaccines. If a worker doesn't comply, a company can give them the ax. This typically meets the legislative mandate requiement. This also applies for COVID-19 vaccinations, according to a recent Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruling. This is statutory and administrative law, which a court admittedly can declare void constitutionally, depending on the terms of the law or ruling. The courts can also determine that portions of these laws not applicable due to other federal or state laws, such as accommodation based on medical reasons or sincerely held religious belief. Indeed, there are plenty of health care workers who have LEGALLY not had C-19 vaccines on medical or religious grounds currently in California. I don't know enough about Rolo's objections to comment in the instant case. As I said in another thread, as a matter of public policy, I support the employer's right to impose a vaccination mandate on employees who interact with other employees and the public generally.

NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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I think this tragedy is in part a result of stupid politics played by "scientist" and politicians, politicizing something that should have been purely fact driven.

When I watched Contagion, one thing that really was interesting was that CDC, WHO, etc. had some much credibility. And vaccine hesitancy wasn't even a thought. If anything, people were dying trying to get it.

I wrote this awhile ago, but when healthcare professionals and scientist took sides on BLM protests and said social distancing and masking were not as important as importance of the social movement, I knew we were in a lot of trouble. It had nothing to do with the validity of the social justice movement. It had to do with how cheaply some of the healthcare professionals sold their integrity and credibility with the other side who may disagree with them on politics but may have otherwise been willing to listen to them on science. If their implicit message was that science was not fact driven but driven by politics and social stance, then we lost our anchor on facts and data. If they viewed their credibility as so disposable, no wonder we are here.

Having said that, I still cling to the exit to this madness that the vaccination provides, and I think we need to do whatever we can to overcome the hesitancy the prior idiocy that got us here. And mandating vaccination may be the only path since prior miscalculations by "scientists" have brought us here where their recommendations are not dispositive to get the nation to where it needs to be through appeal to science.

There will be pain associated with this, and our supply chain issues and crime rate will increase as a result of this. But it is like pulling off a band-aid. We cannot allow ourselves to bleed to death when a path forward has been provided by science.

oskidunker said:

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NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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They knew full well the would lose their jobs. The fired themselves.

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Oh, boy. Tell us you didn't grad Cal.

You want to mandate a government prevention that's 90% +/- effective against an infection that has a 99.9% survival rate (versus a 40% death rate for the subject(s) of those court cases)? Is that what you want everyone to swallow?

People try to justify their demand for 100% vaccination by making this into an anti-social act. "Your refusal endangers everyone else." Aside from that's being bollocks, what danger is "everyone else" in if they've all obeyed orders and gotten vaccinated? You are officially empowered to split hairs now.

COVID came along just in time for a certain segment of the populace. They were on the verge of losing 50 years of momentum and saw the chance to regain it by virtue of emergency powers (it was Rahm Emmanuel, I think, who said, "Never let a crisis go to waste.").

No one will know why Rolovich acted as he did until he tells us, if he chooses to do so. But, that was his God-given right. The ones who don't have the right are those who want to lord it over everyone else in an increasing range of American liberties.

PS Why in hell aren't we seeing huge outbreaks of COVID in major college football cities and towns, given the "rules' broken by stadia full of yelling, slobbering fans?

calumnus said:

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oskidunker said:

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https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-cougars-football/2021/10/18/22731674/nick-rolovich-fired-coach-wsu-cougars-covid-vaccine

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He gave up a $3 million a year job because he didn't want to gett a vaccine that millions have received with no ill effects (and plenty of good effect). Stupid is as stupid does.

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There are millions in this country and around the world who won't get the vaccine for their own reasons even if it means losing their jobs. I think the stupid people are those who received the vaccine and are judging those who didn't.

Rushinbear said:

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oskidunker said:

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NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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They knew full well the would lose their jobs. The fired themselves.

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You want to mandate a government prevention that's 90% +/- effective against an infection...

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Yes. Nothing else you wrote was worth the data packets it took to send it.

concernedparent said:

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Rushinbear said:

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oskidunker said:

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NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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They knew full well the would lose their jobs. The fired themselves.

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You want to mandate a government prevention that's 90% +/- effective against an infection...

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Yes. Nothing else you wrote was worth the data packets it took to send it.

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+1 to this.

On the religious exception, the vast majority of requests for that exception are denied because the individual was otherwise vaccinated for all manner of diseases without previous objection, and had no basis to claim a religious objection to this particular vaccine. Most organized religions are fine with the vaccine as well. I suspect that is what happened with Andrew Wiggins and the WSU coach.

calbear93 said:

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LateHit said:

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The guys at the muffler shop and the hunting lodge must be impressed by his conviction.
If you can impress that demographic, you must be a man.

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As someone who was fully vaccinated at the first opportunity, I would love for all of us to return closer to normal, with the only path I see being higher vaccination rate.

Not to target you specifically, it does seem like bullying tendency of choosing the easiest targets seems to be the same as it always has been. And it seems like less educated or economically disadvantaged folks, especially if they are white, seem to be the target of choice here.

Just to be clear, despite media's biased coverages, minorities and young people are a significant cause of overall hesitancy. For the minorities, this is most likely based on a historical basis for lack of trust in the government and "science."
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-by-race-ethnicity/
Our government and "scientist" have some credibility issues with persons of color based on historical misdeeds.

And for young people, it's mostly selfishness, thinking they are not at high risk. Sacrifice is harder when it's about actually having to sacrifice.

If we are going to solve this, it isn't by playing more political games or bullying. It is trying to understand the basis for the hesitancy and addressing those concerns. And maybe a mandate is the path forward, but I wish to be humble enough to try to see the actual facts and hear others' perspective on why they are not doing something I view as necessary for the greater good.

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Thanks for clearly pointing out issues for thoughtful people to consider

NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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Yes, if they won't get the vaccine.

I cannot imagine being a nurse, EMT, home health provider, policeman, or firefighter and not WANTING to be vaccinated. Doctors and dentists should be, too.

As a member of the populace, I EXPECT such individuals to be vaccinated.

If they won't do it then they need to be relieved of their duties.

dimitrig said:

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NVBear78 said:

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I would think everybody here is aware that multiple groups of people have resisted or been slow to embrace the vaccination; this includes young people, ethnic groups, police and firemen, home health providers and nurses.

For those of you cheering on the firing of the WSU coach do you also applaud the pending loss of livelihood for those groups as well?

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Yes, if they won't get the vaccine.

I cannot imagine being a nurse, EMT, home health provider, policeman, or firefighter and not WANTING to be vaccinated. Doctors and dentists should be, too.

As a member of the populace, I EXPECT such individuals to be vaccinated.

If they won't do it then they need to be relieved of their duties.

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I get your point, and I agree with it.

Having said that, neither one us will have to pay the price for this position.

It is always the less fortunate who will pay the price. And I feel guilt that others will pay for what needs to be done. And no amount of social engineering will fix this. You and I will always have access to the best doctors, because we can afford it, including paying extra for special access. Less fortunate will pay the price for reduction in medical care. You and I can pay our way through inflationary spikes due to further strain on supply chain and transportation and may even grow our wealth, but those whose wage increase have not kept up with inflation will feel it even more. No police force is being reduced where I live, and I will mostly be safe. It's those already living in high crime areas who will be further victimized.

So, not saying there is a easy way out of this, but I cannot take too much moral pride in claiming something I know is right when I won't be paying the price. Kind of like saying we need to invade a country to prevent genocide when it is others' children who will die for that principle. It may be the right thing to do (e.g., WWII), but it is always easier to stand on principle when we are doing so on someone else' back.