Livestream: Kyle Kyle Rittenhouse trial opening statements

50,711 Views | 420 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by going4roses
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

So much of this posturing is necessarily based on an incomplete view of the outcome of the trial. We don't yet have any idea of what the jury deliberations were like but 25 hours is a decent amount of deliberation. OJ was acquitted in 4 hours. Chauvin was convicted in 10 hours. Casey Anthony was acquitted in 11 hours.

We don't know whether a different jury would have convicted on at least one charge and of course we will never know whether a more competent prosecution (with a different unbiased judge) would have been able to make a convincing case beyond a reasonable doubt for at least one charge.

The entire trial was a **** show and not exactly a ringing endorsement for the American criminal justice system. I don't think that the jury decision was necessarily wrong because I wasn't in the room and don't know what they were considering, but not guilty on all counts was not the only reasonable outcome here. There is a reason his legal team was pushing for a mistrial as a backup plan.
they were pushing for a mistrial because the prosecutor was corrupt af. Before the jury even deliberated they were looking for a mistrial with prejudice because what Binger and Lunchbox did. The judge was trying to have his cake and eat it too, if he was found not guilty, he wouldn't have to deal with the motion to dismiss. He would only look at it in case the defendant lost and there was no guarantee he would. So yeah, the defense was worried.
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
At this point you are just telling on yourself.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tequila4kapp said:

dajo9 said:

What happens if the tables are turned and a leftist shoots a right winger in self defense in a street protest?

The police send a hit squad against the leftist, kill him, and the right wing President brags about it.


Your characterization is very unfair.

The leftist (Reinhold) fled from Oregon to Washington, hid in an apartment and when the police arrived (NOT a hit squad - give me an F'ing break) to arrest him he fled to a car brandishing a gun. If he had voluntarily turned himself into the police and gone on trial his attorneys may have received this copy of video and used it in his defense. But since his actions precluded him ever getting a trial the police investigation and subsequent sharing of evidence never happened.

Side note - it would be nice to know if the FBI was flying surveillance drones at the protests. My personal opinion is that is a practice people on the left and right should demand to have more information about. As a general matter just exactly what Federal offenses are potentially going to occur that the FBY is surveilling us?


The hit squad lied. 22 witnesses said the police shot without warning. Reinoehl's gun was found in his pocket.

Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
I agree that you can't conclusively say what would have happened in a hypothetical but neither can you pretend like race isn't a factor. Data certainly suggests that it is.

Quote:

A congressional review of the limited federal homicide data from 20012010 revealed that killings of Black people by White people were ruled justified 35% of the time. Killings of White people by Black people were ruled justifiable in only 3% of cases. Further analysis confirms that White on Black homicides are most likely to be ruled justified, while Black on White homicides are least likely to be ruled justified. In cases involving two male strangers and a firearm, the overall rate of justified homicides is higher, and the racial disparity is also greater. A study by the Marshall Project found that killings of Black men by White people (including private and police killings) were eight times more likely to be found justifiable than any other combination.

MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
I agree that you can't conclusively say what would have happened in a hypothetical but neither can you pretend like race isn't a factor. Data certainly suggests that it is.

Quote:

A congressional review of the limited federal homicide data from 20012010 revealed that killings of Black people by White people were ruled justified 35% of the time. Killings of White people by Black people were ruled justifiable in only 3% of cases. Further analysis confirms that White on Black homicides are most likely to be ruled justified, while Black on White homicides are least likely to be ruled justified. In cases involving two male strangers and a firearm, the overall rate of justified homicides is higher, and the racial disparity is also greater. A study by the Marshall Project found that killings of Black men by White people (including private and police killings) were eight times more likely to be found justifiable than any other combination.


I'm not going to get into a statistics war here because it would be inconvenient and end up with ppl just arguing. But I think when it comes to self defense, you have to look at each case individually, as rarely are they the same in regards to evidence. Is Rittenhouse not guilty if there isn't a dozen camera angles? I doubt it. It would have been his word vs the mob.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
I agree that you can't conclusively say what would have happened in a hypothetical but neither can you pretend like race isn't a factor. Data certainly suggests that it is.

Quote:

A congressional review of the limited federal homicide data from 20012010 revealed that killings of Black people by White people were ruled justified 35% of the time. Killings of White people by Black people were ruled justifiable in only 3% of cases. Further analysis confirms that White on Black homicides are most likely to be ruled justified, while Black on White homicides are least likely to be ruled justified. In cases involving two male strangers and a firearm, the overall rate of justified homicides is higher, and the racial disparity is also greater. A study by the Marshall Project found that killings of Black men by White people (including private and police killings) were eight times more likely to be found justifiable than any other combination.


I'm not going to get into a statistics war here because it would be inconvenient and end up with ppl just arguing. But I think when it comes to self defense, you have to look at each case individually, as rarely are they the same in regards to evidence. Is Rittenhouse not guilty if there isn't a dozen camera angles? I doubt it. It would have been his word vs the mob.
Well, if they still got one of the witnesses to admit on the stand that he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before being shot, then self-defense may well have stood up even without video evidence.
going4roses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'll see you one OJ

And how many times has this happen
https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd2kVKoS/
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
I agree that you can't conclusively say what would have happened in a hypothetical but neither can you pretend like race isn't a factor. Data certainly suggests that it is.

Quote:

A congressional review of the limited federal homicide data from 20012010 revealed that killings of Black people by White people were ruled justified 35% of the time. Killings of White people by Black people were ruled justifiable in only 3% of cases. Further analysis confirms that White on Black homicides are most likely to be ruled justified, while Black on White homicides are least likely to be ruled justified. In cases involving two male strangers and a firearm, the overall rate of justified homicides is higher, and the racial disparity is also greater. A study by the Marshall Project found that killings of Black men by White people (including private and police killings) were eight times more likely to be found justifiable than any other combination.


I'm not going to get into a statistics war here because it would be inconvenient and end up with ppl just arguing. But I think when it comes to self defense, you have to look at each case individually, as rarely are they the same in regards to evidence. Is Rittenhouse not guilty if there isn't a dozen camera angles? I doubt it. It would have been his word vs the mob.
Well, if they still got one of the witnesses to admit on the stand that he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before being shot, then self-defense may well have stood up even without video evidence.
The word of a person is never as good as video evidence. A jury may see him as unreliable "It was dark and he wore glasses" or "He has an agenda" that a prosecutor will try to plant. All kinds of issues come up with testimony. I think Binger knew he was pretty screwed with those videos. He had a hell of a time trying to explain it away, and his own witnesses basically proved the defense lol.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.

dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.




Exactly
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.


The way I understand self defense as told by a self defense expert. You can't try to kill somebody if you think they committed a crime. In fact a guy could kill 40 people and run off, you later attempt to kill him, and he shoots you dead, he had a valid self defense claim. The only time that doesn't work is if the person is in THE ACT of committing a crime, ie, a burglar breaks into your house and you can legally shoot them, but if they run away and you shoot them in the back you'll go down for murder. Also Rittenhouse didn't fire the first shots which has been said numerous times already.
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.

No, that's not what I mean.
MinotStateBeav
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.

No, that's not what I mean.
Well what you mean requires removing the 2nd amendment, that's not happening. So you're just pissing in the wind.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Would the government also withhold high definition video evidence from the defense for a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse?

Would the media narrative change for the trial since we will now have 3 white supremacists targeting a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse who was only trying to defend himself?

Would President Biden prematurely declare the hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse innocent while slamming his attackers as white supremacists?
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.

No, that's not what I mean.
Well what you mean requires removing the 2nd amendment, that's not happening. So you're just pissing in the wind.
Patently false. California and several other states prohibit weapons as I've posted upthread.

And as for who shot first, none of the people the kid shot at fired a weapon.

Pretty clear in retrospect that Grosskreutz should have just shot the kid in the head. Would have been legit self defense and saved his arm. Instead he acted responsibly and paid the price.

In any event everyone would have been safer if there were no weapons. In California the cops wouldn't have smiled at armed vigilantes walking down the street during a protest, they would have arrested them.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.

No, that's not what I mean.
Well what you mean requires removing the 2nd amendment, that's not happening.
Yes and no. Some states do ban open carry, which may have prevented or at least de-escalated the scene in Wisconsin.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/A-federal-judge-upholds-California-s-open-carry-15528998.php
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.
I'm on board with this.


I would be on board with less crime regardless of race.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
blungld said:

It is so sad to see so many people bending over backwards to exonerate killing and this kid who is clearly a POS. I get that you want to defend the tribe and make your parsing arguments about guns that distract from the fact that 2 people were killed unnecessarily and the person who did it takes no responsibility and is seemingly proud of it--and god forbid you agree with a liberal in any way, but man. This is what you support? That's the way you want the US to be? These people are your allies? When do you just stand for decency?

No one here is celebrating death and violence, they're celebrating justice.

But for your own purposes, if you play the video backwards, you can plainly see Rittenhouse chasing his attackers.
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearForce2 said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.
I'm on board with this.


I would be on board with less crime regardless of race.


That's a bold stance
BearForce2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

BearForce2 said:


I would be on board with less crime regardless of race.


That's a bold stance

Not for me but for a leftist, it is.
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Rosenbaum has raped 5 children aged 9 to 11. Good riddance.


Yogi347
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.


And this is the world that ignorant left-wingers live in.




tequila4kapp
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:

It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
I agree that you can't conclusively say what would have happened in a hypothetical but neither can you pretend like race isn't a factor. Data certainly suggests that it is.

Quote:

A congressional review of the limited federal homicide data from 20012010 revealed that killings of Black people by White people were ruled justified 35% of the time. Killings of White people by Black people were ruled justifiable in only 3% of cases. Further analysis confirms that White on Black homicides are most likely to be ruled justified, while Black on White homicides are least likely to be ruled justified. In cases involving two male strangers and a firearm, the overall rate of justified homicides is higher, and the racial disparity is also greater. A study by the Marshall Project found that killings of Black men by White people (including private and police killings) were eight times more likely to be found justifiable than any other combination.

I'm not going to get into a statistics war here because it would be inconvenient and end up with ppl just arguing. But I think when it comes to self defense, you have to look at each case individually, as rarely are they the same in regards to evidence. Is Rittenhouse not guilty if there isn't a dozen camera angles? I doubt it. It would have been his word vs the mob.
Exactly correct. He was incredibly lucky there was so much video and also very lucky to have a well funded defense. Without either the odds greatly increase that he would have been convicted.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

Rosenbaum has raped 5 children aged 9 to 11. Good riddance.





How much alcohol did you have to buy your relatives after election night? Or was that all a lie too?
tequila4kapp
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.


It's been many moons since law school for me (and I'm not a practicing attorney) but the highlighted commentary seems at least potentially right - you are allowed to use as much force is as being used to stop serious bodily injury or death against yourself or another. This is a less sinister explanation for G not being charged with gun offense than the idea the prosecutor is biased / corrupt.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
And Justice For All said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.


And this is the world that ignorant left-wingers live in.







The left is very different from the right
tequila4kapp
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.



Yes this is why I stand by my original take: this whole situation would be better if neither Rittenhouse nor the protesters had been allowed to carry guns.
If the state had done their jobs you mean. They refused to accept federal help, then denied national guard troops, then told the police to stand down and let it happen. THOSE are the guilty parties.

No, that's not what I mean.
Well what you mean requires removing the 2nd amendment, that's not happening. So you're just pissing in the wind.
Patently false. California and several other states prohibit weapons as I've posted upthread.

And as for who shot first, none of the people the kid shot at fired a weapon.

Pretty clear in retrospect that Grosskreutz should have just shot the kid in the head. Would have been legit self defense and saved his arm. Instead he acted responsibly and paid the price.

In any event everyone would have been safer if there were no weapons. In California the cops wouldn't have smiled at armed vigilantes walking down the street during a protest, they would have arrested them.
Rittenhouse passed Grosskreutz in the street like 2 blocks away as he was heading to the police. It was completely irresponsible of Grosskreutz to bring an illegal concealed handgun to the riot, it was irresponsible and illegal of him to be a felon in possession of a firearm and it was irresponsible of him to pursue Rittenhouse those @2 blocks based on rioters yelling that he (R) shot somebody.

Agree re the police. There is video of cops in armored vehicles stopping to give AR15 armed people bottled water and thanking/praising them for being there and "helping". Ridiculous
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Don't lie. You love LOVE L O V E violence. You're constantly posting murder porn on this site. It's probably the only way you get your tiny rocks off.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Yogi347
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

And Justice For All said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.


And this is the world that ignorant left-wingers live in.




The left is very different from the right

When the Washington Post and New York Times voluntarily return their Pulitzers for their Russiagate coverage, then they'll be different
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wonder how Cryin' Kyle would do in a fire fight with opponents equally armed? I think we would see weepy face.




He is definitely Medal of Honor material with an assault rifle vs unarmed, skateboard and pistola.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.




Does this mean that if 10 democrats show up at a rally, and 1000 republicans show up, if some unknown gunshot is heard, the 10 democrats can now down the thousand republicans by claiming self defense?



Excuse me, but the line to vote starts behind this guy.

#NRA'sAmerica
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

Unit2Sucks said:

This is the world that radical white wingers want to live in.




Does this mean that if 10 democrats show up at a rally, and 1000 republicans show up, if some unknown gunshot is heard, the 10 democrats can now down the thousand republicans by claiming self defense?



Excuse me, but the line to vote starts behind this guy.

#NRA'sAmerica


This happened because Rittenhouse heard an unknown gunshot and then fired at people? Hard no.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.