The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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calbear93
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Cal88 said:

Does digging deeper to find out the truth about a major event constitute "bizarre behavior and baffling motive", or does it just reflect your difficulty in assimilating content and facts that go completely against the narrative you're presented on this conflict?

Because the Ukraine war is not like WW2 or the Civil War, it is a war of choice that has been fed by a false narrative, much like the Vietnam War or the Iraqi invasion.

Ukraine`s current government was set up through a coup backed by the US, we've created the conditions for this war and are feeding it through enormous financial and military support, NATO hawks like Boris Johnson have gone out of our way to scuttle attempts by parties including Ukrainian ones to prevent or stop this war.

This is the statement the Ukrainian officer makes in one of the short videos I`ve posted above, reported here:



"Being at war for more than a year and seeing everything from the inside, I want to tell you dear Ukrainians that not even 1% of the truth of what is happening here is being told to you. You are told and shown want they want you to see, and the reality is not at all like that, Over the last month, I have completely changed my mind and my vision of what is really happening, this war is a big geopolitical game of the powers that be, where Ukraine and Ukrainians are just a bargaining chip."

This has been the very same major point I have been trying to drive here. Do you think that Ukrainian office's statement constitutes bizarre behavior and a baffling motive?



What narrative was I presented with?

Russia is our enemy who, together with China, wants to create a new world order where they are the predominant world influence with the consequential benefit of maximizing their economy and quality of life and power of their leaders. Countries in the EU are our allies, although uncomfortable at times, with most of the countries siding with us over Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine unilaterally. Just like I don't get to punch you in the face because I don't like the way you are behaving, they had no right under our world order to invade a separate sovereign country. They may not agree, but I am not Russian and I don't get paid by the Russians to support their interest over ours. By supporting Ukraine who is our ally, we can weaken Russia and counter both China's and Russia's attempt to replace us as the world leaders. And if Russia succeeds painlessly here, China will have that much more incentive to act accordingly with Taiwan and threaten our allies in Asia (where we have great influence) and make commerce that much more difficult for us in Asia, lowering our quality of life and our access to semiconductors that are now in everything.

So, what am I missing? You want to play some moral game as if there is any moral in deranged, egotistical leaders sending solders to die or kill and rape.

We have to choose sides. You choose Russia over U.S. I choose U.S. If this were happening to Belarus who chose to be our enemy, I wouldn't give a ***** Ukraine is our ally and weakening Russia supports our interest.
dimitrig
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

I think the war in Ukraine is like the old story about blind men trying to describe an elephant. Everyone has their own piece of the puzzle but no one is seeing the overall picture. Anyone who thinks they know what is happening in Ukraine is deluding themselves. Especially the armchair military analysts sitting thousands of miles away.

What is very clear is that we are more than a year in and Russia hasn't achieved anything. That much is clear.

Unit2Sucks
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

I think the war in Ukraine is like the old story about blind men trying to describe an elephant. Everyone has their own piece of the puzzle but no one is seeing the overall picture. Anyone who thinks they know what is happening in Ukraine is deluding themselves. Especially the armchair military analysts sitting thousands of miles away.
I think you are being too kind. These people aren't deluding themselves, they are purposefully trying to delude everyone else. It's quite obvious when you do some digging and see that 100% of their lies and judgments favor Putin's agenda. I have had them on ignore for a while but I know the drill - there is zero chance that they have said anything to criticize Putin or Russia's role in this war. They've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar lying so many times that it would be completely irrational to take anything they say at face value or to pretend that they are acting in good faith here. They are Baghdad Bob without the paycheck.

I would agree that most of us don't know what's going on over there, but betting against the liars has historically been a pretty smart move and I have no doubt that it is here as well.
MinotStateBeav
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

I think the war in Ukraine is like the old story about blind men trying to describe an elephant. Everyone has their own piece of the puzzle but no one is seeing the overall picture. Anyone who thinks they know what is happening in Ukraine is deluding themselves. Especially the armchair military analysts sitting thousands of miles away.

Elon Musk it going to be more prescient than many realize. He said AI will be most dangerous to elections in its early development. But I think that applies to propaganda as well. We're in the early stages now. I don't think people know what is really happening. Everybody has their sources. AI will likely be the downfall of humanity if we don't have some serious talks about it.
sycasey
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The war in Ukraine is a war of choice. Putin's choice.
movielover
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Look at her Hollywood lips?

movielover
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movielover
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sycasey
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movielover said:



Didn't know you were so in favor of LGBTQ rights, movielover.
movielover
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Another great History Legends production.

Good news for Ukraine first - they may have acquired 500,000 155 M rounds from South Korea, meaning 4-5 months where more soldiers can be killed before there are serious peace talks.

Russia apparently now deploying low cost, self guided Soviet era FAB 500, 3000, and potentially FAB 5000 bombs that have been cheaply modified. These glide bombs look devastating, dumb bombs converted to being precision bombs. An FAB 500 appears devastating, capable of leveling a building and more. Russia allegedly dropping 20 a day now.

Film (propoganda?) seems to show Russian air force flying unimpeded. Russians also possibly using effective radar jamming of Ukraine attacks.

Colonel Douglass McGregor see no statesman in NATO / USA, he believes greed is part of the equation, and foresees Russia going all the way to the Polish border. Anti war rumblings from Germany and France.

Big C
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movielover said:

Another great History Legends production.

Good news for Ukraine first - they may have acquired 500,000 155 M rounds from South Korea, meaning 4-5 months where more soldiers can be killed before there are serious peace talks.

Russia apparently now deploying low cost, self guided Soviet era FAB 500, 3000, and potentially FAB 5000 bombs that have been cheaply modified. These glide bombs look devastating, dumb bombs converted to being precision bombs. An FAB 500 appears devastating, capable of leveling a building and more. Russia allegedly dropping 20 a day now.

Film (propoganda?) seems to show Russian air force flying unimpeded. Russians also possibly using effective radar jamming of Ukraine attacks.

Colonel Douglass McGregor see no statesman in NATO / USA, he believes greed is part of the equation, and foresees Russia going all the way to the Polish border. Anti war rumblings from Germany and France.



How long has it taken for the Rooskies to take itty-bitty Bakhmut -- and they still haven't finished the job. Now those neo-Commies are supposed to get to the Polish border? Gimme a break.

Colonel-Never-General is right about the greed.

This war is b***sh*t. Glad it's far away from here.
BearHunter
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movielover said:



Zelensky and Ukraine Azov Nazis may be anti-LGBTQ+ but I'm sure that wouldn't stop them from drinking American transvestite beer. They love American products and of course, American cash.
Unit2Sucks
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I'm surprised no one is talking about Russia dropping a 1,500kg bomb in Belgorod. Fortunately for Russia, their bomb wasn't very effective and they pretend … er claim that only one person was hurt.



Russia still hasn't taken Bakhmut so while we wait for that to happen, here are a few links.



Despite the shills pretending sanctions have had no impact on Russia's war effort, it's become clear their lack of optics and ball bearing manufacturing capacity is preventing them from replacing thousands of lost tanks.



This guy thinks there are multiple counteroffensives coming. Will likely be demoralizing to Russians seeing as how their winter offensive accomplished nothing, even with moving the goalposts and pretending they never wanted to accomplish anything of value.



This guy says the quiet part out loud: this dumb war has nothing to do with Nazis. This won't stop the useful idiots from continuing to include it in their firehose of falsehoods as being relevant to Putler's motives.



Prigozhin can see that things aren't looking good for. Russian victory any time soon. Anyone else wonder why the shills always predict things will go better for Russia than they actually have?

bearister
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The Ukraine counter-offensive: How Zelensky's forces will hit Russia



https://mol.im/a/11995199
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
movielover
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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movielover said:


What is a modern ammunition plant supposed to look like?
movielover
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Ask South Korea?
Cal88
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Russia produces more tanks and more shells than all of NATO combined.

The problem in the West is that the MIC is entirely private, and profit-driven, so it likes to produce overpriced toys with high margins. Shells are a commodity, an intensive and laborious production process that is best outsourced.. There has been low demand for decades, as most western wars are primarily won vs. third world armies and guerrilla forces through air power.

As well, you can't have idle capacity in the West, so it will take years to scale up production. In Russia however, the Soviets set up huge facilities to produce shells, and those production stations have been reopened and are operating at full bore today.


movielover
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Like the disaster called the Osprey? Costs over $30 Billion and 51 deaths all because of Jimmy Carter's failed rescue mission?

Set up a long-term shell production facility in Puerto Rico, Alaska or Alabama, modest production with idle surge capacity.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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movielover said:

Ask South Korea?
So you don't know either and your alarmist post is based on no knowledge other than some rando on Twitter told you to be outraged.
MinotStateBeav
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PLEASE STOP DOING WARCRIMES IN ONLINE GAMES, IT'S UPSETTING -RED CROSS
https://www.pcgamer.com/please-stop-doing-war-crimes-in-multiplayer-games-its-upsetting-the-red-cross/


Is tea bagging now a warcrime? If So, I wanna be a warcrimer.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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MinotStateBeav said:

PLEASE STOP DOING WARCRIMES IN ONLINE GAMES, IT'S UPSETTING -RED CROSS
https://www.pcgamer.com/please-stop-doing-war-crimes-in-multiplayer-games-its-upsetting-the-red-cross/


Is tea bagging now a warcrime? If So, I wanna be a warcrimer.
So, Minot is into tea bagging? I guess that's not too surprising. In the interests of community decency, I'll say no more than that.
MinotStateBeav
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

PLEASE STOP DOING WARCRIMES IN ONLINE GAMES, IT'S UPSETTING -RED CROSS
https://www.pcgamer.com/please-stop-doing-war-crimes-in-multiplayer-games-its-upsetting-the-red-cross/


Is tea bagging now a warcrime? If So, I wanna be a warcrimer.
So, Minot is into tea bagging? I guess that's not too surprising. In the interests of community decency, I'll say no more than that.

It's a joke dude..relax.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

PLEASE STOP DOING WARCRIMES IN ONLINE GAMES, IT'S UPSETTING -RED CROSS
https://www.pcgamer.com/please-stop-doing-war-crimes-in-multiplayer-games-its-upsetting-the-red-cross/


Is tea bagging now a warcrime? If So, I wanna be a warcrimer.
So, Minot is into tea bagging? I guess that's not too surprising. In the interests of community decency, I'll say no more than that.

It's a joke dude..relax.
Relax, dude. I have no stress about your sexual preferences.
AunBear89
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

PLEASE STOP DOING WARCRIMES IN ONLINE GAMES, IT'S UPSETTING -RED CROSS
https://www.pcgamer.com/please-stop-doing-war-crimes-in-multiplayer-games-its-upsetting-the-red-cross/


Is tea bagging now a warcrime? If So, I wanna be a warcrimer.
So, Minot is into tea bagging? I guess that's not too surprising. In the interests of community decency, I'll say no more than that.

It's a joke dude..relax.
Relax, dude. I have no stress about your sexual preferences.


Yeah, if he gets his kicks by virtually teabagging 15 year old boys in an online video game, that's him living his best life.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
movielover
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The EurAsian Times corroborates Cal88s airforce synopsis.

The EurAsian Times: Russia 'Eliminates' Four Ukrainian Fighter Jets, Menaces Japan By Flying Tu-22 Bomber, Simulating Strikes On Disputed Islands

"Since last year, Russia has been effectively using its Su-35S and Su-30SM2 fighters in pairs, employing the MiG-31BM interceptor with the long-range R-37M air-to-air missile (AAM), and improved its aerial combat and ground attack tactics.

"These have nearly eliminated their own losses while gradually degrading the Ukrainian air force fleet, as discussed in previous analyses in the EurAsian
Times. "

https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-fighters-eliminate-4-ukrainian-aircraft-intimidates-japan/
Cal88
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^Russia has shot down over 400 Ukrainian fixed wing aircrafts, so nearly all the fleet Ukraine started with, plus several hand me downs from FSB allies. About half of these losses came from S300/400 missiles, and half from beyond visual range air to air R37 missiles. By now there must be several Russian pilots with double digit victories, though there is a lot less glory in shooting down enemy aircraft that way.

Ukraine s most valuable weapon right now are their remaining S300 launchers, and their NATO equivalents (NASAMS, Patriot), without which any major offensive would get pounded from the air.
Unit2Sucks
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Not sure whether it's yet seeped into the ignored propagandists that populate this thread, but the continued failure of Russia's war effort has predictable led to an escalation of the in-fighting among the various factions. It's exactly what you would expect from a corrupt kleptocracy.

Igor Girkin - war criminal and military blogger who supports the annihilation of Ukraine but is critical of the war effort - has escalated his feud with Prigozhin.

Quote:

Igor Girkin has again criticized Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner mercenary group, as the dispute deepens between the pair over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Girkin, a former Russian commander who has been constantly critical of Vladimir Putin, his commanders and Prigozhin, has condemned the head of the private military company for apparently supporting efforts to freeze the war.

Prigozhin, whose troops are focused on capturing the Donetsk Oblast town of Bakhmut, wrote on his Telegram channel this month that Putin should put a "decisive end" to the invasion and focus on strengthening Moscow's hold on the territories it occupies.

And here's a recent example of him being critical of the Kremlin's plans to increase ammo production.
Quote:

Girkin wrote in a lengthy Telegram post on Saturday that Shoigu's announcement does not go far enough to substantially help Russian forces. He wrote that the "multiple" increases in munitions does not compare to the more significant consumption of them.

"Accordingly, in order for the troops to be able to use this weapon 'not artificially,' it is necessary to increase the output by an order (orders)," Girkin wrote, who also accused Shoigu and other Russian military leaders of being "idiots" who "do not understand what they say and write."

In his post, he added that the Russian population will continue to "swallow" statements from Russian officials that the war is going according to plan "for now." Eventually, he warned, the Russian "electorate" will begin to question why the war continues despite authorities' claims of advancements.

"Although many of the 'deep people' are already asking a simple question: 'If everything is so good and healthy with us, why is the war going on for the 14th month, the losses are high, and the victory is further away than at the beginning?'" he wrote.

Prigozhin of course has been jabbering a lot lately and among the many comments he's made (in addition to questioning the laughably fake nazi justification for the war) is that the Kremlin should just declare victory and try to hold the territory it's claimed, rather than continue to sacrifice more troops for no gains.

Quote:

"For the [Russian] authorities and for society as a whole, today it is necessary to put a decisive end to the special military operation. The ideal option is to announce the end of the special military operation, to inform everyone that Russia has achieved the results that it planned, and in a sense we have actually achieved them," Prigozhin wrote in a blog article posted on Telegram on Friday that was shared and translated by Ukrainian news outlet Pravda.

Girkin has also been under the threat of prosecution for being critical of the war effort, because Russia is a corrupt authoritarian sh(thole with no individual freedoms.



dajo9
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Unit2Sucks said:

Not sure whether it's yet seeped into the ignored propagandists that populate this thread, but the continued failure of Russia's war effort has predictable led to an escalation of the in-fighting among the various factions. It's exactly what you would expect from a corrupt kleptocracy.

Igor Girkin - war criminal and military blogger who supports the annihilation of Ukraine but is critical of the war effort - has escalated his feud with Prigozhin.

Quote:

Igor Girkin has again criticized Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner mercenary group, as the dispute deepens between the pair over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Girkin, a former Russian commander who has been constantly critical of Vladimir Putin, his commanders and Prigozhin, has condemned the head of the private military company for apparently supporting efforts to freeze the war.

Prigozhin, whose troops are focused on capturing the Donetsk Oblast town of Bakhmut, wrote on his Telegram channel this month that Putin should put a "decisive end" to the invasion and focus on strengthening Moscow's hold on the territories it occupies.

And here's a recent example of him being critical of the Kremlin's plans to increase ammo production.
Quote:

Girkin wrote in a lengthy Telegram post on Saturday that Shoigu's announcement does not go far enough to substantially help Russian forces. He wrote that the "multiple" increases in munitions does not compare to the more significant consumption of them.

"Accordingly, in order for the troops to be able to use this weapon 'not artificially,' it is necessary to increase the output by an order (orders)," Girkin wrote, who also accused Shoigu and other Russian military leaders of being "idiots" who "do not understand what they say and write."

In his post, he added that the Russian population will continue to "swallow" statements from Russian officials that the war is going according to plan "for now." Eventually, he warned, the Russian "electorate" will begin to question why the war continues despite authorities' claims of advancements.

"Although many of the 'deep people' are already asking a simple question: 'If everything is so good and healthy with us, why is the war going on for the 14th month, the losses are high, and the victory is further away than at the beginning?'" he wrote.

Prigozhin of course has been jabbering a lot lately and among the many comments he's made (in addition to questioning the laughably fake nazi justification for the war) is that the Kremlin should just declare victory and try to hold the territory it's claimed, rather than continue to sacrifice more troops for no gains.

Quote:

"For the [Russian] authorities and for society as a whole, today it is necessary to put a decisive end to the special military operation. The ideal option is to announce the end of the special military operation, to inform everyone that Russia has achieved the results that it planned, and in a sense we have actually achieved them," Prigozhin wrote in a blog article posted on Telegram on Friday that was shared and translated by Ukrainian news outlet Pravda.

Girkin has also been under the threat of prosecution for being critical of the war effort, because Russia is a corrupt authoritarian sh(thole with no individual freedoms.






It's hard to keep declaring the same victory for 6 months
movielover
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Cal88 said:

^Russia has shot down over 400 Ukrainian fixed wing aircrafts, so nearly all the fleet Ukraine started with, plus several hand me downs from FSB allies. About half of these losses came from S300/400 missiles, and half from beyond visual range air to air R37 missiles. By now there must be several Russian pilots with double digit victories, though there is a lot less glory in shooting down enemy aircraft that way.

Ukraine s most valuable weapon right now are their remaining S300 launchers, and their NATO equivalents (NASAMS, Patriot), without which any major offensive would get pounded from the air.


Another article says their planes can target / take out planes 110 kilometers away. Ouch. This is the video game era in real life.

Will we see the hinted at, never seen before attack of 50,000 weaponized Ukranian drones ---> 1,000 at a time? Or propoganda?

Does Russia have a defense system which can shoot most of them down if they are launched in coordinated, overload attacks?
Cal88
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^The Russians have scored a kill from 300km out, from a Mig31 with an R37, and several more in the 200km range. The 110km range is that of the midrange missiles carried by Sukhois 30/35 and 57, mainly the R77. The newest R37s have a range of up to 400km with the first half of their path being guided by the Mig31s radar, which is the biggest ever mounted on a jet fighter, a Mig31 flying over Oakland could shoot down a plane flying over Fresno.

The Ukrainian drone army can only gravity-drop grenade sized bombs ,only effective against personnel, unless they can catch a tank or armored vehicle with its hatch open. As well the lower end commercial quadcopters are easy to jam, so not a game changer.
movielover
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Cal88 said:

^The Russians have scored a kill from 300km out, from a Mig31 with an R37, and several more in the 200km range. The 110km range is that of the midrange missiles carried by Sukhois 30/35 and 57.


Have kills at this distance ever been recorded before in actual combat?
Cal88
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F14s with the Phoenix missiles and F15s with the AMRAAMs have scored kills in the low to mid 100km range iirc, Iranian Tomcats in the Iran Iraq war and Israeli F15s over Lebanon in the early 80s.
golden sloth
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Cal88 said:

^The Russians have scored a kill from 300km out, from a Mig31 with an R37, and several more in the 200km range. The 110km range is that of the midrange missiles carried by Sukhois 30/35 and 57, mainly the R77. The newest R37s have a range of up to 400km with the first half of their path being guided by the Mig31s radar, which is the biggest ever mounted on a jet fighter, a Mig31 flying over Oakland could shoot down a plane flying over Fresno.

The Ukrainian drone army can only gravity-drop grenade sized bombs ,only effective against personnel, unless they can catch a tank or armored vehicle with its hatch open. As well the lower end commercial quadcopters are easy to jam, so not a game changer.


The Russian military is so powerful everyone else should cower in fear! The technological edge and industrial capacity combined with Russia's vast resources and manpower advantage will allow Russia to conquer Ukraine in less than a month. And then the world will know to respect and fear Savior Vladimir Putin!

Russian high command - Dated: February 2022
Cal88
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The Russians are winning too slowly, for the public that ignores the 7 to 1 ratio and is kept from the horrendous reality of Ukrainian losses.

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