The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:18p, 1/26/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Firehose is working OT right now to pretend that a Russian military transport that Ukraine shot down was actually full of POWs. Obviously this is a pitiful attempt to save face from the fact that Russian air defenses continue to fail despite shills perennially claiming they are state of the art.

My favorite part of Russia's fake claim about POWs being killed is that many of the "dead" POWs were transferred to Ukraine in previous exchanges, which just shows how utterly incompetent Russia is even at what they do best - laughably false propaganda. Or maybe my favorite part is Russia alternatively claiming the plane was shot down by UFA (which is embarrassing) or that the plane crashed due to incompetence (also embarrassing).



Not sure if related (and haven't seen this elsewhere) but it's possible that UFA is doing a boot and scoot with Patriot air defense systems which would allow them to operate more deeply within Russian air space.

When reading the shills bold claims of success, you should ask yourself why we are 700 days into this 3 day war and Ukraine is able to expand the geographical scope of its attacks within Russia? The answer is obvious but it's not want the Putinista's want you to hear: Russia is nowhere close to as dominant as they claim and their only real path to "victory" is the west abandoning Ukraine.




But fear not Putin stans, all of your predictions about what would happen with energy prices continue to come true.



Here's an interesting thread on Russia's attempt to break through UFA fortifications constructed over the last few months. We will see if Russia is able to have more success with this than UFA had going through Russian fortifications in the last counter-offensive.





1) Your silly source "David O" claimed that Russia had passed a law officially claiming former Russian territories like Alaska:



Not such law was ever passed, I doubt it was even officially voted on. This guy is lying.



2) The Il-76 Russian cargo plane shot down by the Ukrainians was indeed carrying 65 Ukrainian POWs set for a prisoner exchange, a process which has been carried over regularly in this stupid war. Your source above is a lying propagandist.



The reason why that plane was shot down is because the Russians did not expect the Ukrainian army to cynically kill their own POWs, they had their guards down. Perhaps it's just incompetence from the AA missile crew, or miscommunication, or the crew, probably a NATO crew, did this on purpose.

We might not know the circumstances or motivations behind this war crime, but the fact that the Ukrainian authorities covered it up lends to believe that it was a cynical decision. If your story of that Il-76 was carrying a cargo load of S-300s, the explosion would have looked like one giant spontaneous firework show.

3) Lie #3 from yet another junk NATO propaganda source, "Chris O":
Quote:
Ukraine's fortified defences have thwarted Russian advances in places such as Avdiivka and have been expanded across the main sectors of the front.
Avdiivka is falling, Ukrainian troops are surrendering, the city will be in Russian hands this winter.





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movielover
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In reply to bear2034 • 5:32p, 1/26/24
Biden is punishing Abbott for protecting the border from illegal Democrats.
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bear2034
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In reply to movielover • 6:07p, 1/26/24
My guess is the Deep State is allowing illegal immigration to happen to prepare for a future where the majority of us will find it acceptable to be digitally tracked.
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movielover
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In reply to bear2034 • 11:10p, 1/26/24
bear2034 said:
My guess is the Deep State is allowing illegal immigration to happen to prepare for a future where the majority of us will find it acceptable to be digitally tracked.


This isn't a one-Act play. Free $$$, free bennies, then ... Amnesty and flipping 3-4-5 states.
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:18p, 1/27/24


When thinking about reading a Unit2Sucks post about the Ukraine War that the United States lost in spectacular fashion, just save yourself the trouble and reflect on this scene from a highly entertaining film about another scam gone awry.


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oski003
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5:22a, 1/28/24
Ukraine uncovers new reason why it is running out of shells.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:21p, 1/29/24


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Unit2Sucks
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3:27p, 1/29/24
Interesting thread on Russian nazi crossover. I knew that Russia has a not insignificant neo-nazi movement, but assumed it was more like the worldwide radicalized neo-nazi plague rather than stemming from the alliance/betrayal by Nazi germany.



Mediazona (a source that Russian propagandists abuse to pretend like Russian personnel losses are fractional) and Russia itself have now reported on the large number of attacks by Russians on enlistment officers and centers because it turns out they don't actually want to die of trench foot or whatever in Ukraine.



Despite Twitter being ablaze with Russian shills voraciously slurping down Putin's lies about the downed Russian IL-76, after several days Russia still has not been able to provide any evidence to support its claims. And to be clear the claims are ridiculous. Ukraine had no reason or desire to shoot down a plane full of its own POWs.

I will concede it's possible that Russia pulled some sleight of hand and loaded the plane with POWs surreptitiously in order to generate a headline to help prop up this disaster of a war for Putin, but if so they would have been able to prove it instantly. Instead, they have been sharing a list of POWs that includes more than a dozen who were already exchanged with Ukraine, and they have yet to show any evidence of 65+ dead. Reportedly only 5 bodies were taken to the morgue. The last time there was an exchange, Russia had 20 of its own soldiers for 50 POWs, so why would they only have 3 this time? Makes no ense. There are just far too many inconsistencies to take anything Russia says at face value here and they've refused to allow any independent investigation (of course).

Here's an article with a breakdown of Russia's embarrassing empty performance at the UN.

Quote:
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin is lying when he claims that Russian air defense has never taken down its own aircraft, said Ukraine's HUR military intelligence service spokesperson, Andriy Yusov, in an interview with Radio Svoboda on Jan. 29.
Russia came empty-handed to the UN Security Council meeting, failing to provide any details or evidence about supposed Ukrainian prisoners of war aboard the crashed IL-76 military transport aircraft in Belgorod Oblast, Yusov said.

"We were really hoping for some actual facts, not just a bunch of propaganda statements," Yusov said.
"We saw nothing new, so the investigation is ongoing. As for the fate of these people, we must do everything possible to find out it will definitely be done. The topic of an international investigation is definitely on the table for Ukraine."
Putin previously claimed that a Russian air defense system could not have shot down the IL-76, since Russian aircraft are equipped with the friend-or-foe (IFF) system. Yusov commented on Putin's remarks on the IL-76 aircraft, saying that he is "as always, lying."

"There have been repeated cases of 'friendly fire' and the shooting down of Russian aircraft by Russian air defense and anti-missile defense systems in various parts of both the Russian Federation and the occupied territories near the front line," he said.
In other significant news, there is a lot of chatter that Zelensky fired Budanov, Ukraine's intel chief, who Russia has claimed to have killed at least 2 or 3 times by now. There has been credible reporting that he and Zelensky have been at odds at times, so it's possible that he has been dismissed or that this is more dumb Russian propaganda. If he is gone, it would likely be a meaningful loss for Ukraine (unless, like the Russian shills claims, he has died 2 or 3 times already).
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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:28p, 1/29/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Interesting thread on Russian nazi crossover. I knew that Russia has a not insignificant neo-nazi movement, but assumed it was more like the worldwide radicalized neo-nazi plague rather than stemming from the alliance/betrayal by Nazi germany.



Mediazona (a source that Russian propagandists abuse to pretend like Russian personnel losses are fractional) and Russia itself have now reported on the large number of attacks by Russians on enlistment officers and centers because it turns out they don't actually want to die of trench foot or whatever in Ukraine.



Despite Twitter being ablaze with Russian shills voraciously slurping down Putin's lies about the downed Russian IL-76, after several days Russia still has not been able to provide any evidence to support its claims. And to be clear the claims are ridiculous. Ukraine had no reason or desire to shoot down a plane full of its own POWs.

I will concede it's possible that Russia pulled some sleight of hand and loaded the plane with POWs surreptitiously in order to generate a headline to help prop up this disaster of a war for Putin, but if so they would have been able to prove it instantly. Instead, they have been sharing a list of POWs that includes more than a dozen who were already exchanged with Ukraine, and they have yet to show any evidence of 65+ dead. Reportedly only 5 bodies were taken to the morgue. The last time there was an exchange, Russia had 20 of its own soldiers for 50 POWs, so why would they only have 3 this time? Makes no ense. There are just far too many inconsistencies to take anything Russia says at face value here and they've refused to allow any independent investigation (of course).

Here's an article with a breakdown of Russia's embarrassing empty performance at the UN.

Quote:
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin is lying when he claims that Russian air defense has never taken down its own aircraft, said Ukraine's HUR military intelligence service spokesperson, Andriy Yusov, in an interview with Radio Svoboda on Jan. 29.
Russia came empty-handed to the UN Security Council meeting, failing to provide any details or evidence about supposed Ukrainian prisoners of war aboard the crashed IL-76 military transport aircraft in Belgorod Oblast, Yusov said.

"We were really hoping for some actual facts, not just a bunch of propaganda statements," Yusov said.
"We saw nothing new, so the investigation is ongoing. As for the fate of these people, we must do everything possible to find out it will definitely be done. The topic of an international investigation is definitely on the table for Ukraine."
Putin previously claimed that a Russian air defense system could not have shot down the IL-76, since Russian aircraft are equipped with the friend-or-foe (IFF) system. Yusov commented on Putin's remarks on the IL-76 aircraft, saying that he is "as always, lying."

"There have been repeated cases of 'friendly fire' and the shooting down of Russian aircraft by Russian air defense and anti-missile defense systems in various parts of both the Russian Federation and the occupied territories near the front line," he said.
In other significant news, there is a lot of chatter that Zelensky fired Budanov, Ukraine's intel chief, who Russia has claimed to have killed at least 2 or 3 times by now. There has been credible reporting that he and Zelensky have been at odds at times, so it's possible that he has been dismissed or that this is more dumb Russian propaganda. If he is gone, it would likely be a meaningful loss for Ukraine (unless, like the Russian shills claims, he has died 2 or 3 times already).


This is solid propaganda, Unit2. I salute you. Someone remembered that the USSR was initially allied with Germany and found a way to connect it to events of today. This is fantastic.
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Unit2Sucks
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7:51a, 1/30/24
UFA shot down another state of the art Russian fighter, making it 25 SU-34s they've lost in this war (more than 10% of their stock). I guess that makes Russia stronger for reasons.



Russian update on Avdiivka, the small inconsequential, strategically meaningless village that Russia has been throwing meat wave after meat wave into, and still hasn't been able to take. According to the shills, they've been 2 weeks from taking it for like 6 months or more. This is supposed to be one of these morale-boosting wins to help propel Putin's fake election.



In very related news, UK MOD posting about the large increase in Russian casualties in 2023. Sacrificing young men for a stupid war apparently makes Russia stronger.



Russian propagandists reminding everyone that they want to genocide Ukraine.



And just lol.


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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:03a, 1/30/24
Unit2Sucks said:
UFA shot down another state of the art Russian fighter, making it 25 SU-34s they've lost in this war (more than 10% of their stock). I guess that makes Russia stronger for reasons.



Russian update on Avdiivka, the small inconsequential, strategically meaningless village that Russia has been throwing meat wave after meat wave into, and still hasn't been able to take. According to the shills, they've been 2 weeks from taking it for like 6 months or more. This is supposed to be one of these morale-boosting wins to help propel Putin's fake election.



In very related news, UK MOD posting about the large increase in Russian casualties in 2023. Sacrificing young men for a stupid war apparently makes Russia stronger.



Russian propagandists reminding everyone that they want to genocide Ukraine.



And just lol.




Solid propaganda: pretending to be surprised that Russia has lost 10% of a type of plane and that there are casualties almost two years into a war.

I guess Russia isn't invincible.
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movielover
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7:42p, 1/30/24
U2S = aka Dances with Propogandists
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calpoly
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In reply to oski003 • 8:08p, 1/30/24
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
UFA shot down another state of the art Russian fighter, making it 25 SU-34s they've lost in this war (more than 10% of their stock). I guess that makes Russia stronger for reasons.



Russian update on Avdiivka, the small inconsequential, strategically meaningless village that Russia has been throwing meat wave after meat wave into, and still hasn't been able to take. According to the shills, they've been 2 weeks from taking it for like 6 months or more. This is supposed to be one of these morale-boosting wins to help propel Putin's fake election.



In very related news, UK MOD posting about the large increase in Russian casualties in 2023. Sacrificing young men for a stupid war apparently makes Russia stronger.



Russian propagandists reminding everyone that they want to genocide Ukraine.



And just lol.




Solid propaganda: pretending to be surprised that Russia has lost 10% of a type of plane and that there are casualties almost two years into a war.

I guess Russia isn't invincible.
The village idiot speaks again!
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blungld
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7:34a, 1/31/24
It's almost like the cleaning up the Nazis in Ukraine was a lie. It's almost like they just want to eradicate ALL Ukrainians, their country, and convert who they can into Russians. But yeah, this isn't an invasion, genocide, or an attack. No, it's a humanitarian effort provoked by Ukraine. I am morally aghast at Americans who side with Putin. How does one become so devout in their tribe that they justify crimes against humanity in order to "be right" and stay convinced they themselves are the good guys?

Every wave of terror has it's bourgeois spectators underpinning the horror with their detached tacit support through justifications, loyalty, and silence. Come on Putin enablers, more memes and tweets making massacre okay!
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
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dimitrig
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In reply to blungld • 2:10p, 1/31/24
blungld said:
It's almost like the cleaning up the Nazis in Ukraine was a lie. It's almost like they just want to eradicate ALL Ukrainians, their country, and convert who they can into Russians. But yeah, this isn't an invasion, genocide, or an attack. No, it's a humanitarian effort provoked by Ukraine. I am morally aghast at Americans who side with Putin. How does one become so devout in their tribe that they justify crimes against humanity in order to "be right" and stay convinced they themselves are the good guys?

Every wave of terror has its bourgeois spectators underpinning the horror with their detached tacit support through justifications, loyalty, and silence. Come on Putin enablers, more memes and tweets making massacre okay!


How does one become so devout in their tribe that they justify crimes against humanity in order to "be right" and stay convinced they themselves are the good guys?

I ask myself about the pro-Israel people all the time.

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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to blungld • 3:55p, 1/31/24
blungld said:
It's almost like the cleaning up the Nazis in Ukraine was a lie. It's almost like they just want to eradicate ALL Ukrainians
A good way to prevent the eradication of Ukrainian men was for Zelensky to agree to peace terms with Russia, but the U.S, and Britain scuttled that. Feel free to lay the blame where it belongs for that if you ever manage to get off your high horse.
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bear2034
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4:03p, 1/31/24
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blungld
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In reply to Lets Go Brandon 3 • 6:26p, 1/31/24
Yeah, being anti the Russian invasion is such a high horse sanctimonious. Why can't people like me lower our standards to be on board with Putin?

How about asking yourself to get off your low horse instead?
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
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bearister
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7:05p, 1/31/24
For those that believe there was a just reason for Russia to invade the Ukraine:

1. Can you provide a scenario where you think it would be justified for the United States to invade another country?

2. Can you provide a scenario where it would be justified for Israel to invade another country?

3. Do you believe it would be justified for China to invade Taiwan? If yes, why?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
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oski003
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In reply to blungld • 7:05p, 1/31/24
blungld said:
Yeah, being anti the Russian invasion is such a high horse sanctimonious. Why can't people like me lower our standards to be on board with Putin?

How about asking yourself to get off your low horse instead?


I think everyone here is against the Russian invasion, except maybe Cal88. You project more than simply being against the invasion.
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Cal88
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In reply to blungld • 7:05p, 1/31/24
blungld said:
It's almost like the cleaning up the Nazis in Ukraine was a lie. It's almost like they just want to eradicate ALL Ukrainians, their country, and convert who they can into Russians. But yeah, this isn't an invasion, genocide, or an attack. No, it's a humanitarian effort provoked by Ukraine. I am morally aghast at Americans who side with Putin. How does one become so devout in their tribe that they justify crimes against humanity in order to "be right" and stay convinced they themselves are the good guys?

Every wave of terror has it's bourgeois spectators underpinning the horror with their detached tacit support through justifications, loyalty, and silence. Come on Putin enablers, more memes and tweets making massacre okay!

1- The nazi element in Ukraine is real. The type of nationalism that is pushed by the post-Maidan government is based on 1930s OUN-UPA dogmas. Hundreds of sites in central and western Ukraine have been renamed after Bandera and other Ukrainian SS leaders. That is an undeniable fact.

https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/03/08/wdtz-m08.html

The reason this particularly bothers eastern Ukrainians is that they fought on the other side in WW2, they view this ideology as an existential threat.

2- Ukraine is over 1/3 Russophone or ethnic Russian. The Kiev government has been forcibly Ukrainizing them, stripping their language and minority rights. This has precipitated the 2014 civil war that ignited in eastern and sounthern Ukriane.

3- Instead of stabilizing the situation and finding a compromise the way many multiethnic countries have like Spain, Canada, Czechoslovakia have, NATO and US neocons have used this issue to foment a war in order to weaken Russia, regardless of the fact that Ukraine would suffer greatly from its consequence.

4- Ukraine never had a fighting chance to defeat Russia on the battlefront, There never was a military solution to the Donbass problem if Russia intervened on their behalf. Knowing this, egging them on to fight Russia instead of trying to work out a compromise, as was done in the aforementioned countries, is downright criminal.

5- Ukraine has been a dictatorship, political dissidents are arrested, tortured or just eliminated, Gonzalo Lira wasn't an isolated case. They've gone as far as executing one of their official peace negotiators because he was deemed too soft on Russia.
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Unit2Sucks
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10:37p, 1/31/24
Even though Putin still hasn't managed to take a small village after months of waves of mutilation of his own troops, he's still campaigning on it.


Maybe he needs to find newer tanks.


But the troops know what a killing field it's been for them.



And as for people who pretend that Putin is just a peace-loving guy who is doing all of this out of the kindness of his heart, he wants you to know that he's planning to go beyond Ukraine.


Looks like Ukraine is attacking Crimea again. Surprisingly WWIII hasn't broken out and we don't see 100 millon dead yet. Weird right? It's almost like Putin has already escalated as much as he can and is using everything he has to fight Ukraine.


Don't worry guys, Russia is just getting stronger.

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Big C
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In reply to bearister • 10:47p, 1/31/24
bearister said:
For those that believe there was a just reason for Russia to invade the Ukraine:

1. Can you provide a scenario where you think it would be justified for the United States to invade another country?

2. Can you provide a scenario where it would be justified for Israel to invade another country?

3. Do you believe it would be justified for China to invade Taiwan? If yes, why?

1. riches for the taking

2. no, we got Israel the country they have now (at considerable cost to us over the past many decades); that's enough.. in fact, they should show us some gratitude by being quite a bit more surgical in their Operation Kill Hamas... Biden has been telling them this now for months; long past time to take his advice

3. hell no, i'm sick of China... wait, maybe they could invade Russia from the other side, to give Ukraine a little break; it'd be worth it just to see the look on Putin's face

oops, i just read the top line: this question wasn't even for me
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blungld
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:34a, 2/1/24
Cal88 said:
1- The nazi element in Ukraine is real. The type of nationalism that is pushed by the post-Maidan government is based on 1930s OUN-UPA dogmas. Hundreds of sites in central and western Ukraine have been renamed after Bandera and other Ukrainian SS leaders. That is an undeniable fact.

https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/03/08/wdtz-m08.html

The reason this particularly bothers eastern Ukrainians is that they fought on the other side in WW2, they view this ideology as an existential threat.

2- Ukraine is over 1/3 Russophone or ethnic Russian. The Kiev government has been forcibly Ukrainizing them, stripping their language and minority rights. This has precipitated the 2014 civil war that ignited in eastern and sounthern Ukriane.

3- Instead of stabilizing the situation and finding a compromise the way many multiethnic countries have like Spain, Canada, Czechoslovakia have, NATO and US neocons have used this issue to foment a war in order to weaken Russia, regardless of the fact that Ukraine would suffer greatly from its consequence.

4- Ukraine never had a fighting chance to defeat Russia on the battlefront, There never was a military solution to the Donbass problem if Russia intervened on their behalf. Knowing this, egging them on to fight Russia instead of trying to work out a compromise, as was done in the aforementioned countries, is downright criminal.

5- Ukraine has been a dictatorship, political dissidents are arrested, tortured or just eliminated, Gonzalo Lira wasn't an isolated case. They've gone as far as executing one of their official peace negotiators because he was deemed too soft on Russia.
Cool story bro: Ukraine sucks, Russia is awesome humanitarian state, Go Putin! We get it. We know how you justify things and who you are rooting for. Every war has the sympathizers for the bad guys. I guess you are cool being one of them.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
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Unit2Sucks
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11:56p, 2/1/24
Russia is now stronger than it has ever been as a result of Ukraine sinking another Russian ship. This means Ukraine has destroyed around 20% of the black sea fleet. Think of all of the money Russia saves on maintenance and paying sailors?





Given that Russia still pretends that dead soldiers and sailors are "missing" this should help support Putin's brewery at one of his numerous off books palaces.




And Putin's friend Orban greenlighted another $50B in aid from the EU, once again proving how much better off Russia is than before Putin launched this dumb war of aggression that all of the Putinistas said he would never do (up until the day he did it).


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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:09a, 2/2/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Russia is now stronger than it has ever been as a result of Ukraine sinking another Russian ship. This means Ukraine has destroyed around 20% of the black sea fleet. Think of all of the money Russia saves on maintenance and paying sailors?





Given that Russia still pretends that dead soldiers and sailors are "missing" this should help support Putin's brewery at one of his numerous off books palaces.




And Putin's friend Orban greenlighted another $50B in aid from the EU, once again proving how much better off Russia is than before Putin launched this dumb war of aggression that all of the Putinistas said he would never do (up until the day he did it).




Sure, Hungary received no concessions in return. Lol.

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-releases-funds-to-hungary-in-controversial-move/a-68014763
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Cal88
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In reply to bearister • 5:20p, 2/4/24
bearister said:
For those that believe there was a just reason for Russia to invade the Ukraine:

1. Can you provide a scenario where you think it would be justified for the United States to invade another country?

2. Can you provide a scenario where it would be justified for Israel to invade another country?

3. Do you believe it would be justified for China to invade Taiwan? If yes, why?

Whether or not Russia was justified in invading Ukraine, it was very clear that US and NATO policymakers knew exactly what the conditions for an eventual invasion were, and deliberately crossed these red lines in an attempt to weaken and destabilize Russia:




Same with China/Taiwan. Since the Nixon era, and spanning the tenure of all other US presidents since including Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr and Obama, we know that China has signaled it would invade Taiwan if Taiwan declared its independence. For the first time in 50 years, it now appears as the US is starting to deliberately move away from the One China policy in place since the Nixon era.

The US has already illegally invaded dozens of countries in our lifetime, I can't think of any invasions that are justified, because none of them are anywhere near US borders. we are now currently occupying one third of Syria, and openly stealing its oil and wheat. We are also occupying Iraq against the wishes of its government and people, putting US troops in harms way, and destabilizing the region as this occupation is now being challenged by locals.

In terms of scenarios as per your question, a (far-fetched) one where say a government of Mexico becomes openly hostile to the US, allies itself closely with China and Russia, opens Chinese bases and raises a highly-trained, well equipped 600,000-strong army and declares its intention to acquire nuclear weapons, such a development south of the border would certainly engender a US military invasion.

And that by the way is exactly the scenario that went down in Ukraine, with the added element of a large Russian minority within Ukraine being bombed into submission in 2014-2022.

Quote:
2. Can you provide a scenario where it would be justified for Israel to invade another country?
Israel is the only country in the world whose borders are not defined, and whose territory has grown every year since 1967. It is a settler-colonial European state rooted in 19th century colonial mindset that views the original inhabitants of Palestine as an inferior race, and their race as God's chosen people, with vast long-term territorial ambitions:





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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:46p, 2/4/24
Cal88 said:
Whether or not Russia was justified in invading Ukraine

They weren't.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 5:52p, 2/4/24
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Whether or not Russia was justified in invading Ukraine

They weren't.

Perhaps if you were from the Donbass or Mariupol, or where one of the 50+ protestors in Odessa in 2014 who were burned alive by Bandera nationalists, you might feel differently.



In any case, as I have said above, whether or not it was justified, we know it was provoked, according to the analysis of several experts including that of the current chief of US intelligence or Mearsheimer.
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Cal88
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7:49p, 2/4/24
Jeffrey Sachs answered Bearister's questions, describing US foreign policy pretty well in under 2 minutes:

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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to sycasey • 8:33p, 2/4/24
sycasey said:


They weren't.
It's really not that complicated. Russia, which denied they were gearing up for military action up until the day they invaded their peaceful neighbor (and whose shills denied they had any ill intent), was provoked by Ukraine's very existence and the theoretical threat from NATO. That theoretical threat justifies pro-Putin fans exaggerating and celebrating the death of civilians (including Ukrainians forced into military service to defend their homeland). The war, which they still pretend is a special military operation to de-nazify Ukraine, was obviously justified and any number of Ukrainian deaths at Putin's hands is more than warranted by the theoretical encroachment of NATO.

Israel, on the other hand, decided to go to war with children in Gaza completely without provocation. The murder of over 1,200 civilians by a few lone wolfs, and the taking of several hundred civilian hostages is nothing in comparison to ummmm NATO NATO NATO.

Anyone can see clearly that Russia was far more justified in its invasion of Ukraine than Israel is in defending itself. This has nothing to do with the fact that Putin supports Hamas and Iran and is leveraging the hostilities in Israel to distract from the underwhelming 3 day invasion (that was really a special military operation) and which has still not been successful after more than 700 days. And it's a mere coincidence that so many people who promote Russia's war against its peaceful neighbor also support Hamas. It's all objective realism, so long as your look at things from Putin's point of view.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:47p, 2/4/24
Cal88 said:
In any case, as I have said above, whether or not it was justified
It wasn't.
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to sycasey • 3:02a, 2/5/24
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
In any case, as I have said above, whether or not it was justified
It wasn't.
But it was provoked. Sorry that your bubble of American goodness keeps getting burst by facts.
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Zippergate
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9:00a, 2/5/24
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sycasey
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In reply to Lets Go Brandon 3 • 9:30a, 2/5/24
Genocide Joe said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
In any case, as I have said above, whether or not it was justified
It wasn't.
But it was provoked. Sorry that your bubble of American goodness keeps getting burst by facts.
This response is rich from someone who also constantly argues against the Israeli war on Hamas by saying that it's a disproportionate response to the original Hamas attack. If it's true for Israel, it's extra true for Russia.
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