The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

860,271 Views | 9883 Replies | Last: 13 min ago by sycasey
Eastern Oregon Bear
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MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.
MinotStateBeav
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Unit2Sucks
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.
Exactly. There is nothing legitimate about Cucker's questions. He works for the largest news organization in the country. If he had genuine questions, he could start by having his news division investigate. He also knows that he's being played on Russian state TV to falsely reflect Russian sentiment.

Rather than acknowledge that he has been wrong this whole time about Putin, Russia and the conflict in Ukraine, he's resorting to Alex Jones level idiocy.

But since he's an unprincipled hack, he would rather dance for the conspiracy believing idiots that have fueled his rise of late than act with any dignity.
AunBear89
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MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.


I know you don't understand the complex concept of "projection", but your post is a classic example. I'll try to find a definition of "projection" for you that's written at a 2nd grade reading level.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.

Why does the other side of the divide have to be "maybe Putin was justified for invading?"
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.

Why does the other side of the divide have to be "maybe Putin was justified for invading?"
But their ideology demands they disagree with democrats, regardless of the reason.

So if democrats are against murdering civilians, the republicans must ask if it's really happening. And if it's really happening, they must ask whether they should care. And if they should care, is it bad? Maybe it's justified? And on and on.

They've turned "are war crimes against unarmed civilians bad?" into an ideological question because they just can't bear to accept that anything democrats believe could possibly be true.
Sebastabear
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I have reflected on Tucker Carlson's questions. I have also reflected on the injustice of a world where he can't float crackpot theories ungrounded in a shred of evidence and that are clumsy talking points of a murderous autocrats and whine that he's just "asking questions". I have concluded I have my own questions

- What if Tucker Carlson is a cyborg sent from the future by Skynet to prevent John Connor from being born?

- What if the answer to "Who let the dogs out" is "Tucker Carlson"?

- What is the significance of the fact that "Tucker Carlson" is an anagram for "Ant C o c k s Ruler"?

I may have more. Stay tuned. Just asking questions.

Unit2Sucks
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As long as we're just asking questions, why is nobody talking about the real problem? Wind! When you think about what wind is doing to our country, it's just shocking. Enough of this Putin genocide stuff. We need to focus on the real issues. That's why Minot and other patriots will be voting for Trump in every election. He just gets it.


Unit2Sucks
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Oh also, maybe Tucker should just ask some questions about the below piece of propaganda from his employers in Russia.




Sebastabear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Oh also, maybe Tucker should just ask some questions about the below piece of propaganda from his employers in Russia.





Jesus H. Christ. "The further denazification of this mass of the population consists of re-education, which is achieved by ideological repression (suppression) of Nazi attitudes and harsh censorship: not only in the political sphere but also in culture and education . . . "

This is like straight out of the Orwellian handbook. And Tucker Carlson says he's on Putin's side? Insane.
Unit2Sucks
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Sebastabear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

And Tucker Carlson says he's on Putin's side?

Hang on just a second. We don't actually know whose side Cucker is on. He's just asking questions. I mean what if he were on Putin's side? Great question to ask. But it's just a question.
Sebastabear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Sebastabear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

And Tucker Carlson says he's on Putin's side?

Hang on just a second. We don't actually know whose side Cucker is on. He's just asking questions. I mean what if he were on Putin's side? Great question to ask. But it's just a question.
To be fair, that part wasn't framed as a question.

Unit2Sucks
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Sebastabear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Sebastabear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

And Tucker Carlson says he's on Putin's side?

Hang on just a second. We don't actually know whose side Cucker is on. He's just asking questions. I mean what if he were on Putin's side? Great question to ask. But it's just a question.
To be fair, that part wasn't framed as a question.


Yeah, no I know. I was just being sarcastic / echoing the disingenuous tactics used by him and others.

I would note that him saying he's on Putin's side doesn't really mean anything since Carlson isn't a serious person. What I surmise is that he thinks it's good for him personally to ask these questions and hold these views because it increases his popularity and notoriety. I don't for a second believe anything he says at face value.

Here's a message from Adam Kinzinger that I think sums up where the modern Republican party is really at right now.


blungld
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MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
Seriously? F you.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
blungld
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MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
oski003
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blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
You want people to stop using mRNA vaccines. Does that mean it's reasonable to believe you would murder your children and frame Pfizer?

No serious person would look at the atrocities in Bucha and across Ukraine and believe that Zelensky did it in order to incentivize Nato. It's preposterous and idiotic. I doubt Zelensky would be able to convince the farmers fighting for Ukraine to rape, torture and murder their brothers and sisters but supposing Zelensky was that much of a monster, you think it could happen without people finding out?

This is batsh%t crazy stuff. Do you really believe these things are possible? Do you think they are probable? Do you think they are questions worth asking when there is no reason to believe they are true?
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
You want people to stop using mRNA vaccines. Does that mean it's reasonable to believe you would murder your children and frame Pfizer?

No serious person would look at the atrocities in Bucha and across Ukraine and believe that Zelensky did it in order to incentivize Nato. It's preposterous and idiotic. I doubt Zelensky would be able to convince the farmers fighting for Ukraine to rape, torture and murder their brothers and sisters but supposing Zelensky was that much of a monster, you think it could happen without people finding out?

This is batsh%t crazy stuff. Do you really believe these things are possible? Do you think they are probable? Do you think they are questions worth asking when there is no reason to believe they are true?
Let's keep this about Russia please. Please also stop seeing everything in black and white all or nothing terms.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
You want people to stop using mRNA vaccines. Does that mean it's reasonable to believe you would murder your children and frame Pfizer?

No serious person would look at the atrocities in Bucha and across Ukraine and believe that Zelensky did it in order to incentivize Nato. It's preposterous and idiotic. I doubt Zelensky would be able to convince the farmers fighting for Ukraine to rape, torture and murder their brothers and sisters but supposing Zelensky was that much of a monster, you think it could happen without people finding out?

This is batsh%t crazy stuff. Do you really believe these things are possible? Do you think they are probable? Do you think they are questions worth asking when there is no reason to believe they are true?
Let's keep this about Russia please. Please also stop seeing everything in black and white all or nothing terms.

Thanks for confirming that you partially support Russia's war crimes in Bucha and throughout Ukraine. Simple old me thought I could just unilaterally condemn genocide but you've made it clear that you don't believe that's reasonable.

Can you give us some of the reasons you partially support Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the war crimes committed by the military there? I think it would be helpful if we all better understood your position.
Sebastabear
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Quote:

I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable . . .
It's so improbable as to essentially be science fiction. But even setting that aside, there needs to be some shred of evidence . . . like literally any . . . before one should start "asking questions" about alleged atrocities committed on Ukrainians against their own citizens. And that's of course without getting into the satellite imagery posted just today showing these bodies lying in these exact locations in these towns for weeks while the Russians were fully in control. Because of course it makes total sense for the Ukrainian underground to have spent the last several weeks executing their own people and leaving them lying around rather than, you know, killing Russians . . . right?

All of the evidence and all of the facts and all of the logic shows Russia did this. Saying otherwise is to buy into the spin from an authoritarian regime that has shut down the free press and outlawed the word "war" being uttered in their country, punishable by 15 years in prison. I mean give me a break.

sycasey
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
Zelensky already largely has NATO support, so making up an outlandish lie that requires CORPSES lying on the ground in one of his own cities is indeed a wildly improbable thing for him to do.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.

Why does the other side of the divide have to be "maybe Putin was justified for invading?"
Tucker Carlson may very well be a Russian asset, but calling for more information about the alleged massacre in Bucha is the only reasonable course of action.

The reasoning is simple: the timeline doesn't add up.

Wed, 3/30: Russian troops left Bucha (according to the Russian Defense Ministry);

Thu, 3/31: Anatolii Fedoruk, mayor of Bucha, announces a "Day of Liberation of Bucha"; "This day will go down in the glorious history of Bucha and the entire Bucha community as a day of liberation by the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Russian occupiers."

Fri, 4/1: "Ekaterina Ukraintsiva, representing the [Bucha] town council authority, appeared on an information video on the Bucha Live Telegram page wearing military fatigues and seated in front of a Ukrainian flag to announce 'the cleansing of the city.' She informed residents that the arrival of the Azov battalion did not mean that liberation was complete [but it was, the Russians had fully withdrawn], and that a 'complete sweep' had to be performed."

Sat, 4/2:
++ NYT reports completion of Russian withdrawal from Bucha, "leaving behind dead soldiers and burned vehicles", with no mention of a massacre;

++ Left Bank, a U.S./EU-funded Ukrainian language site, announces: "Special forces [Azov Battalion] have begun a clearing operation in the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region, which has been liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The city is being cleared from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian forces."

++ Photos posted of Bucha massacre, blaming Russian troops [who had already been run outta town] for the killings;

Whenever there are reports of the killings of innocent civilians, it's important to remember that all Ukrainian men aged 18-60 were required by law to stay and fight against Russian forces. Were there really any "innocent civilians"? Or were they compelled, by the declared martial law, to be combatants?

Could the Bucha massacre victims have been pacifists who refused to fight?

It's also important to remember that throughout the entire Ukraine support for U.S./EU/NATO policies vs alignment with Russia was pretty evenly mixed, with the West more U.S.-aligned, and the East more Russia-aligned. Were there Russian sympathizers in Bucha who signaled their surrender to Russian troops?

There are many open questions that need answering. Unfortunately, no investigation is forthcoming.

When Putin started his troop buildup on Ukraine's Eastern border, I urged you guys to believe very little of what you hear from the media on this conflict. I stand by my statement even more so today.

Everything from Western MSM is urging escalation of the conflict on Ukraine's behalf, tighter economic sanctions, and the ouster of Putin. The fact that Russia's defense policy authorizes the first use of nuclear weapons for their own defense doesn't seem to give anyone in Washington a 2nd thought.

Nor does our track record with economic sanctions and their lack of success -- except the unintended consequence of consolidating support for the despot du jour.

As I said before, both Zelensky and Putin have had enough, and are ready to negotiate an end to this ordeal. Then Biden, who's kept the zealots from unbridled escalation thus far, calls Putin a "war criminal", somehow forgetting that the U.S. still refuses to recognize the International Criminal Court in The Hague, and still refuses to ratify the Rome Statute.

The U.S. Neocons believe that they're close to the regime change in Russia that they've wanted all along, and they aren't about to let their agenda get derailed by a peace agreement.

Bottom line: Believe very little of what you hear on Ukraine. Assume that everything that reaches you is propaganda, until proven otherwise. Everyone has an agenda, and they're more committed to their agenda than the truth.

Primary source: Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre, Consortium News


Eastern Oregon Bear
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BI has more people living in Bizarroland than I was expecting. Does the sun really rise in the north and set in the south there? Just asking a question.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.
Zelensky already largely has NATO support, so making up an outlandish lie that requires CORPSES lying on the ground in one of his own cities is indeed a wildly improbable thing for him to do.
Support, yes. Direct military engagement? No. Biden [smartly] doesn't want to start WW3 over a nation that's not a direct strategic interest.

Zelensky is appealing to the entire Western world for a no-fly zone and more substantial military aid, and he's willing to use anything and everything, true or not, to push his agenda.

But seriously -- If the mayor of Bucha gleefully announced a "day of liberation" and the withdrawal of Russian troops on 3/31, then how did those Russian troops execute 'civilians' on 4/2?
BearForce2
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Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

You are free to ask dumb questions, no one is stopping you.
BearForce2
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:


Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Was Hunter BIden's laptop real?
Was Russia Collusion real?
Why do left wing extremists fall for left wing propaganda every time?
BearForce2
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Also completely fair to ask those questions, I don't agree, but I'm not going to shout you down for asking them.
Well, except for them being monumentally stupid and idiotic questions and a total waste of air time that could have been devoted to meaningful questions. I suppose you still think questioning whether the dead school kids ar Sandy Hook were actually crisis actors was a legitimate question too. It's got about as much logic.

Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.

Why does the other side of the divide have to be "maybe Putin was justified for invading?"

Why does the other side constantly lie?
Sebastabear
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BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

Left wing extremists frequently label those they disagree with a Russian asset or troll. Please continue.


Been called many things but my colleagues would die laughing to hear me called a "left wing extremist." I think you should be careful staking out a position where "facts" are the exclusive providence of your enemies, but you do you. And you didn't answer my Tucker playing pinochle with Putin question. I demand an answer.
BearForce2
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blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
Seriously? F you.

You expect him to read your long follow up post after dropping F bombs like Putin on a civilian population?
Sebastabear
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BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

You are free to ask dumb questions, no one is stopping you.


So now you edited your post to say this? Is your algorithm fritzing out again? Is it a dumb question to ask if any person would really make 500 posts on the night of the election?
BearForce2
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Sebastabear said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Tucker asking the disingenuous questions. He's really gunning for Russian media personality of the year.



Those are actually legitimate questions.
What if Tucker Carlson is a Russian asset embedded to destroy American democracy? What if he maintains a dacha in Vladivostok where he plays pinochle with Putin on his days off? I mean those seem like legitimate questions too and honestly far more likely to be true than the "fake corpses planted in a Russian occupied city to make Putin look bad" theory.

You are free to ask dumb questions, no one is stopping you.


So now you edited your post to say this? Is your algorithm fritzing out again? Is it a dumb question to ask if any person would really make 500 posts on the night of the election?

I would post a thousand times daily on rigged elections but BearGreg would get upset. What's wrong with being called a left wing extremist when the right is constantly being labeled right wing extremists, white supremacists, Russian trolls, etc?
Big C
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.

I agree that it's okay to at least consider the possibility that the atrocities are staged, though they are most likely not. The reason I believe there could be a slight possibility is that, were I deciding Ukranian strategies/tactics, I would consider the possibility of taking those who were already killed and staging their bodies to look like atrocities were committed. Why? Because I am fighting an asymmetrical, desperate war against a superior force and all wars are wars of propaganda.

However, there is zero evidence at the present time to believe that the atrocities are anything but real, so that has to be my assumption at this time. Tucker Carlson should say that, when asking the questions. In fact, him using his national forum (to which Russia and Ukraine also have access) to ask the questions seems extremely inappropriate. But then, he is a tool. I hope he loses on this.

Sure, it's okay to ask/consider these questions, but the wording and the context are important, since it seems like the atrocities are likely true. To give both possibilities equal time and consideration is a gross false equivalency.
AunBear89
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Gross false equivalencies are the GQP's thing. It's all they have.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
BearForce2
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BI has more people living in Bizarroland than I was expecting. Does the sun really rise in the north and set in the south there? Just asking a question.

Aren't you within a few hours driving distance from Portland?
oski003
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Big C said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

MinotStateBeav said:


Everything that doesn't follow your ideology becomes stupid and idiotic. It's a problem with democrats currently. They can't picture themselves on the other side of the divide.
Quit playing dumb.

When you ask questions that have no evidence supporting the inquiry and the questions itself has insult and ideology embedded in it, it is no longer a question. It is instead an attack. An accusation. It is not a question in that it does not in any way look to actually have an answer or inquire about truth or to inhabit the space questions do (I am inquiring because there is something I am unsure about so I am asking a question to get information so that I would then know an answer I didn't know before I asked).

The Tucker "questions" seek no information, they do not seek truth or to be educated. They are cynical wink to his audience. They are statements parading as questions. They declare that I will undermine any value held by those I disagree with no matter how absurd, removed from truth, or insulting just to be adversarial and proclaim my tribe.

You absolutely understand this dynamic and the callous lack of civility and earnestness he displays. And you like it. You have shown yourself to not care about truth or social engagement that builds to consensus, understanding, or making life better. You are part of the shLt poster culture that cares not at all about sincere human exchange, just antagonizing others and flexing just how low you will go to adhere to your thinking and annoy others. What a guy!

I'm just asking, is the reason you are such a horrible person because you were sexually abused by a person in your family who is a sexual predator and an alcoholic and has a really low IQ? Again, I'm just asking. Can't conservatives have open and honest conversations without seeing an insult in every harmless question? They are just words.


Zelensky wants NATO to support and defend him, so framing Russia for war atrocities makes sense. I don't necessarily think this is happening, but it's not improbable. I believe your stance on the matter leads you and others to believe the questions aren't genuine.

I agree that it's okay to at least consider the possibility that the atrocities are staged, though they are most likely not. The reason I believe there could be a slight possibility is that, were I deciding Ukranian strategies/tactics, I would consider the possibility of taking those who were already killed and staging their bodies to look like atrocities were committed. Why? Because I am fighting an asymmetrical, desperate war against a superior force and all wars are wars of propaganda.

However, there is zero evidence at the present time to believe that the atrocities are anything but real, so that has to be my assumption at this time. Tucker Carlson should say that, when asking the questions. In fact, him using his national forum (to which Russia and Ukraine also have access) to ask the questions seems extremely inappropriate. But then, he is a tool. I hope he loses on this.

Sure, it's okay to ask/consider these questions, but the wording and the context are important, since it seems like the atrocities are likely true. To give both possibilities equal time and consideration is a gross false equivalency.


I appreciate the reasoned response. Seems to be rare these days as emotion and trolling gets the better of everyone.
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