The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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movielover
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 7:24p, 2/4/23
Unit2Sucks said:
movielover said:

Yes, Ritter spanked his pud in an over-18 chat room. Interesting that he was targeted.


Interesting that you choose to lie to defend a convicted repeat pedophile groomer.

It wasn't so long ago you still pretended to care about groomers. What else are you only pretending to care about? Do you ever wonder how you got here?


APRIL 28, 2022

Responsible Stateceaft: "Sen. Paul opened his comments by saying that "while there is no justification for Putin's war on Ukraine, it does not follow that there's no explanation for the invasion." Yet during his testimony, Sec. Blinken seemingly rejected the need for any further exploration of Russia's motivations, instead asserting the same, dangerous combination of over-certainty and incuriousness about the "the other side" that has fueled so many disastrous U.S. foreign policy decisions."

"...Yet Blinken's assertion appears to be at odds with what Derek Chollet, counselor to the Secretary of State, recently told War On the Rocks' Ryan Edwards: that the U.S. refused to discuss the possibility of Ukraine's NATO membership during diplomatic efforts leading up to the war, and treated Ukraine's NATO membership as a "non-issue" during talks with Russia."

"...In the weeks leading up to the invasion, Putin himself expressed frustration that Russia's NATO concerns were being ignored, saying that "we need to resolve this question now … (and) we hope very much our concern will be heard by our partners and taken seriously." But don't just take Putin's word for it in 2008, then-U.S. Ambassador to Russia (and current CIA Director) William Burns wrote in a State Dept. memo that: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players…I have yet to find anyone who view Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/04/28/did-the-us-really-take-russias-nato-concerns-very-seriously/

P.S. There are serious allegations that Joe and Hunter Biden did far worse to young family members.
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movielover
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8:38p, 2/4/23
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dajo9
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In reply to movielover • 8:44a, 2/5/23
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd
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movielover
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In reply to dajo9 • 10:24a, 2/5/23
Facts are stubborn things.
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dajo9
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In reply to movielover • 10:39a, 2/5/23
movielover said:
Facts are stubborn things.


Let me know when you put some facts out there
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sycasey
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In reply to dajo9 • 10:48a, 2/5/23
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd

It's amazing how quickly the far right joined the far left in being proudly anti-American. At least the far left tries to be vaguely in support of some kind of help for the average worker. The far right just seems to care about stumping for authoritarians.
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Cal88
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11:02a, 2/5/23
More ongoing mobilization pain in Ukraine, spurred by the horrendously high turnover in the Donbass front, where fresh untrained, under-equipped Ukrainian conscripts are taking heavy losses. Reportedly new recruits are lasting just a few hours on the front:



Ukraine is being emptied out of its men:



The Zelensky government has tightened its enforcement of forced mobilization:



Scenes of men being plucked off the street are commonplace across Ukraine:

















Men who were previously deferred, like this blind Ukrainian man, are now getting draft notices:



15 year old boys are now prevented from leaving the country, in anticipation that they will be sent to the "meat grinder" front when they turn 16:



Ukrainians are resourceful:



That's the true state of things in Ukraine, after the loss of 450,000 men killed in action or wounded, most Ukrainian men don't want to be cannon fodder for Zelensky's government.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 11:05a, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd

It's amazing how quickly the far right joined the far left in being proudly anti-American. At least the far left tries to be vaguely in support of some kind of help for the average worker. The far right just seems to care about stumping for authoritarians.

It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.
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movielover
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11:44a, 2/5/23
The Political Hobbyist - The man who predicted the Ukrainian war.

Professor John Mearsheimer from the University of Chicago. Apparently America made some poor decisions in 2008.

Here he is interviewed by Hungarian hosts; the first 2 minutes gives a brief summary.

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Cal88
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2:17p, 2/5/23
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:58p, 2/5/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd

It's amazing how quickly the far right joined the far left in being proudly anti-American. At least the far left tries to be vaguely in support of some kind of help for the average worker. The far right just seems to care about stumping for authoritarians.

It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 4:33p, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd

It's amazing how quickly the far right joined the far left in being proudly anti-American. At least the far left tries to be vaguely in support of some kind of help for the average worker. The far right just seems to care about stumping for authoritarians.

It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.





Quote:
America has been involved in declared wars against the United Kingdom (1775 1783 and 1812 1815), Canada (1812 1815), Algeria (1815), Mexico (1836, 1842, 1844, 1846-1848), Japan (1853-1854), Korea (1871 and 1950-1953), Philippines (1898 and 1899-1902), Cuba (1898), Spain (1898), Vietnam (1964-1973), Cambodia (1969-1973), Iraq (1991, and 2003-present), Kuwait (1991), Oman (1991), Afghanistan (1998 and 2001-present). The U.S. also has been involved in World War I (Germany, Austria, Belgium) and World War II (Germany, Austria, Italy, Belgium, Roumania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Morocco, Algeria, Japan, Philippines, Papua New Guinea).

The United States has been involved in some form of military conflicts and actvity in France (1798-1800), French Guiana (1798-1800) Mexico (1818-1819), Cuba (1822-1825 and 1917-1922), Greece (1827, 2014), Indonesia (1832, 1838-1839), Argentina (1833, 1852-1853, 1890)Peru (1835-1836), Uruguay (1855, 1859), Nicaragua (1854, 1857, 1896, 1898, 1912 1925), Panama (1856, 1865, 1988-1989), Lebanon (1858, 1982-1983) Venezuela (1873,1895, 1902), Angola (1860), Puerto Rico (1898), Dominican Republic (1903-1904, 1965), Ethiopia (1993-1994), Syria (1903, 2017), Honduras (1911, 1983-1989), Haiti (1914, 1993-1996), Russia (1918-1922), Croatia (1919), Guatemala (1920), Germany (1948), Taiwan (1950-1955), Thailand (1952), Egypt (1956), Laos (1962-1975), Democratic Republic of Congo (1964), Iran (1980, 1920), El Salvador (1981), Chad (1983), Bolivia (1986), Saudi Arabia (1990), Liberia (1990, 2003), Sierra Lione (1992), Sudan (1992-1993) Macedonia (1993-1994), Bosnia and Herzegovina (1993-1999), Burundi (1994), Albania (1996-1998), Gabon (1997), Republic of Congo (1997), Sudan (1998), Kenya (1998), Tanzania (1998), Serbia (1999-2000), Kosovo (1991-2001), South Sudan (2001), Mauritania (2003), Senegal (2003), Eritrea (2004-2006), Central African Republic (2011), Uganda (2011), Yemen (2012, 2016), Jordan (2013), Niger (2013), Poland (2014), Ukraine (2015), Lithuania (2015), Cameroon (2015).
^partial list
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:01p, 2/5/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
No, I believe the argument is that NATO and the US were the provocateurs for years.

You don't make an offer after talking smack for years, "weaken Russia", "take out Putin", install NATO, train 400k soldiers on their doorstep, etc. And Russia has cr-ploads of land and natural resources. They wanted security. You certainly don't go bomb the Nordstream 2 pipeline!

Why don't we have a negotiator, preferably fluent in Russian, on the ground for the past 2 years?

Our people also sound like a bunch of immature, short sighted, wanna bees playing video games.


The blame America crowd

It's amazing how quickly the far right joined the far left in being proudly anti-American. At least the far left tries to be vaguely in support of some kind of help for the average worker. The far right just seems to care about stumping for authoritarians.

It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 5:49p, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries, it often involves the cover of "R2P", such as in the current occupation of one third of Syria or the invasion of Libya, and more often, this imperialism is based exploiting local divisions to foment ethnic, religious or national strife, such as the sponsoring of separatist jihadis in Chechnya, or the backing of regimes that are hostile to the target country.

Ukraine is a perfect example of this strategy, its use as a tool to undermine Russia has been advocated by several US policy whitepapers, from Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard to the Rand 2019 paper on "Unbalancing" Russia:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

Quote:
Geopolitical Cost-Imposing Measures

Providing lethal aid to Ukraine would exploit Russia's greatest point of external vulnerability. But any increase in U.S. military arms and advice to Ukraine would need to be carefully calibrated to increase the costs to Russia of sustaining its existing commitment without provoking a much wider conflict in which Russia, by reason of proximity, would have significant advantages.

Russia's response to this measure was well-known and outlined by dozens of policy analysts. People like McCain, Nuland or Lindsay Graham are very happy to push the limits of this policy, using Ukraine to undermine Russia. They are very happy to fight this war to the last Ukrainian.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:16p, 2/5/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 6:58p, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:48p, 2/5/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 7:57p, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.


Edit: Jan 19, 2022, President Biden 'green light': "Biden predicts Russia 'will move in' to Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences"

It's too bad Boris Johnson (NATO / USA) stopped peace talks scheduled in Istanbul with Zelensky. More disastrous moves by Blinken, Biden and Lloyd Austin. And Milley sure comes off dim.
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 8:23p, 2/5/23
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.


It's too bad Boris Johnson (NATO / USA) stopped peace talks scheduled in Istanbul with Zelensky. More disastrous moves by Blinken, Biden and Lloyd Austin. And Milley sure comes off dim.

The extent you guys go to carry water for the people who started the war and continue to do the most killing is truly impressive. I hope you're getting paid for this.
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dimitrig
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In reply to sycasey • 9:46p, 2/5/23
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.


It's too bad Boris Johnson (NATO / USA) stopped peace talks scheduled in Istanbul with Zelensky. More disastrous moves by Blinken, Biden and Lloyd Austin. And Milley sure comes off dim.

The extent you guys go to carry water for the people who started the war and continue to do the most killing is truly impressive. I hope you're getting paid for this.


Reagan Republicans would call people who do this communists.

Look! There's a balloon!


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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to dimitrig • 10:18p, 2/5/23
dimitrig said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.


It's too bad Boris Johnson (NATO / USA) stopped peace talks scheduled in Istanbul with Zelensky. More disastrous moves by Blinken, Biden and Lloyd Austin. And Milley sure comes off dim.

The extent you guys go to carry water for the people who started the war and continue to do the most killing is truly impressive. I hope you're getting paid for this.


Reagan Republicans would call people who do this communists.

Look! There's a balloon!
I'm pretty sure movielover and his pals consider Reagan to be a RINO. After all, Reagan got us into wars, supplied arms to rebels that couldn't win, didn't build a wall along the Mexican border and didn't have a gun fetish. To top it all, he was from Hollywood!
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sycasey
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:44p, 2/5/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
dimitrig said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


It's more like gullible liberal Democrats have now replaced gullible Fox Republicans as the most rabid pro-war segment in America.

Beating back aggressive imperialist regimes is anti-war.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is bliss.
I supported getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also getting Russia out of Ukraine. Unlike you, I don't change my position on imperialist wars and occupation depending on which country is doing it.

Modern imperialism is a bit more subtle than just militarily invading target countries,

Maybe it is, but when one country just goes ahead and invades it becomes remarkably unsubtle. Too bad for you that Putin had to go ahead and do that.

It's not too bad for me, it's too bad for the half million Ukrainians who are bleeding and dying as a result of these policies, whose outcome was entirely predictable.

"We must condemn those who wage war, but even more so, those that make it inevitable"
Montesquieu

It's too bad that Russia's army is killing them, I agree.


It's too bad Boris Johnson (NATO / USA) stopped peace talks scheduled in Istanbul with Zelensky. More disastrous moves by Blinken, Biden and Lloyd Austin. And Milley sure comes off dim.

The extent you guys go to carry water for the people who started the war and continue to do the most killing is truly impressive. I hope you're getting paid for this.


Reagan Republicans would call people who do this communists.

Look! There's a balloon!
I'm pretty sure movielover and his pals consider Reagan to be a RINO. After all, Reagan got us into wars, supplied arms to rebels that couldn't win, didn't build a wall along the Mexican border and didn't have a gun fetish. To top it all, he was from Hollywood!

And he was very pro-immigration!
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movielover
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1:03a, 2/6/23
Israel PM attempted to broker peace.

Arnaud Bertran@RnaudBertrand

" I checked, it's true, at 3:00:32 in the interview ( Bennett says: "the West blocked [the Russia-Ukraine peace agreement] and I thought they're wrong".

"Truly stunning revelation: the two belligerent parties had negotiated peace but the West blocked it."


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Cal88
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5:17a, 2/6/23
Bennett also relayed Zelensky's fear of being assassinated by Putin to Putin himself, who reassured him that taking out Zelensky wasn't in the works. After learning about this from Bennett, Zelensky left his bunker and started making public appearances.

Quote:
'Putin assured me he wouldn't kill Zelensky,' Bennett recalls

"Do you intend to kill Zelensky?" Bennett recalled asking Putin, during an almost five-hour interview he gave to Israel's Channel 12.


https://www.jpost.com/international/article-730603

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Cal88
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6:58a, 2/6/23
From the horse`s mouth: Boris Johnson and other necon warmongers blocked peace negotiations which had a realistic chance of getting ratified early last year:



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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 7:20a, 2/6/23
Unit2Sucks said:
George Packer shows how fake Putin's attempt to pretend like he's the victim of Western aggression. Unlike in WWII, Russia is the aggressor and the parallels with Hitler's moves are obvious.

He also briefly mentions how Putin celebrates Stalin, a terrible mass murderer, but neglects to mention the Russian propaganda criticizing the Ukrainians who celebrate Bandera. Obviously there are shades of conservatives in the US who still idolize Robert E. Lee and even still fight against the removal of Nathan Bedford Forrest statues.

The below is the core of the article and highlights just how foundational Putin's lie is.

Quote:
Putin's purpose in going to Stalingrad was to connect the past war to the present one, and in doing so to rouse Russian pride and warn his enemies of their coming doom. "Unfortunately, we see that the ideology of Nazism in its modern form and manifestation again directly threatens the security of our country," he declared in a speech to a military audience. "Again and again we have to repel the aggression of the collective West. It's incredible but it's a fact: We are again being threatened with German Leopard tanks with crosses on them."

To grasp the enormity of this liethe foundational lie of Russia's war against Ukraineit helps to know something about the history of World War II. During Putin's visit to Stalingrad, I was rereading the classic Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, a CBS radio correspondent who had been based in Berlin in the 1930s. So it was fresh in my mind how Adolf Hitler, in his first move of conquest, annexed Austria in March 1938, claiming it as a historical part of the German Reich, and then held a plebiscite in which 99.75 percent of Austrians officially voted to join Germany. Putin's first move in this war was to annex Crimea in March 2014, claiming it as a historical part of the Russian Empire, and then hold a plebiscite in which 97 percent of Crimeans officially voted to join Russia.


Next for Hitler in 1938 came the annexation of the Sudetenland, the German-speaking region of Czechoslovakia, where local Nazis, on orders from Berlin, instigated phony pretexts for a German takeover. Relentless Nazi propaganda transformed Czechoslovakia, a progressive democracy, into a hellish aggressor, and charged its president, Edvard Benes, with a litany of made-up crimes. "It is unbearable for a world power to know there are racial comrades at its side who are constantly being afflicted with the severest suffering for their sympathy or unity with the whole nation, its destiny and Weltanschauung," the Fuhrer roared. "To the interests of the German Reich belong the protection of those German peoples who are not in a position to secure along our frontiers their political and spiritual freedom by their own efforts."

It isn't all that hard to replace the German Weltanschauung with Ruskiy Mir, or "Russian world"; Hitler the protector of oppressed German speakers with Putin the liberator of oppressed Russian speakers; Edvard Benes with Volodymyr Zelensky; the Sudetenland with the Donbas; Berlin-backed Sudeten Nazis with Moscow-backed Ukrainian separatists. In both cases, incidents in the breakaway regions were ginned up on orders from the neighboring empire, giving it an excuse to invade. In the Reich Chancellery then, as in the Kremlin now, every gesture toward peace negotiations was a sham to buy more time for war. Within six months of the September 1938 Munich Conference where the Sudetenland was surrendered to Germany, Hitler swallowed the rest of Czechoslovakiaand he was just beginning. Eight years after starting a war in Crimea and the Donbas, Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, bringing destruction, murder, rape, occupation, annexation, deportation, threats of annihilation, and many more lies.

History doesn't repeat itself; it rarely even rhymes. Putin's claim that Russia is reliving the defense of Stalingrad shows how misleading and pernicious analogies can be. It's generally wise to resist themthis one above all, for Hitler truly was unique. But as I made my way through Shirer's 1,100-page book, resisting the analogies required much more effort than drawing them.

Putin raises the Nazi ghost as a way not just to discredit his enemies with a false charge, but to immunize himself from having a far more plausible charge flung at him. This is propaganda as projectiona common technique of demagogues. Hitler accused the Czechs and Poles of aggression against Germany as he prepared to invade; Donald Trump accused Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden of corrupting American justice as he turned the executive branch into an instrument of his personal interests. "No puppet!" Trump retorted in a debate after Clinton suggested how Putin regarded him. "You're the puppet!"

Another example of Putin trying to rewrite history through propaganda and pretend like he's defending Russia.



Here's some analysis of why Putin really invaded Ukraine. I guess he really does love it so much he needs to destroy it. What a liberator.



Quote:
This is no coincidence. The Black Sea's unique geography a 'lake' pierced by the strategic Crimean peninsula, which controls access to the Sea of Azov, with only the Bosporus Strait as a 'pressure value' engenders a cauldron of competition. The Kremlin's access to the Black Sea enables power projection and its warm-water ports reside exclusively on Black Sea coastline. This makes control over littoral territory central to Putin's imperialist ambitions, and has led to attempts by the Kremlin to assert dominance and undermine regional stability and Western presence through so-called frozen conflicts, starting in Moldova in 1992 and continuing with the invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014. The Kremlin is now attempting to stifle Ukraine's will and strangle its economy from the sea, where 121 ships containing agricultural exports currently await transit. In short, the story of Black Sea security in which Putin is merely the newest instigator revolves around an enduring struggle for maritime supremacy.



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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:25a, 2/6/23
Unit2Sucks said:

Another example of Putin trying to rewrite history through propaganda and pretend like he's defending Russia.



Here's some analysis of why Putin really invaded Ukraine. I guess he really does love it so much he needs to destroy it. What a liberator.



Quote:
This is no coincidence. The Black Sea's unique geography a 'lake' pierced by the strategic Crimean peninsula, which controls access to the Sea of Azov, with only the Bosporus Strait as a 'pressure value' engenders a cauldron of competition. The Kremlin's access to the Black Sea enables power projection and its warm-water ports reside exclusively on Black Sea coastline. This makes control over littoral territory central to Putin's imperialist ambitions, and has led to attempts by the Kremlin to assert dominance and undermine regional stability and Western presence through so-called frozen conflicts, starting in Moldova in 1992 and continuing with the invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014. The Kremlin is now attempting to stifle Ukraine's will and strangle its economy from the sea, where 121 ships containing agricultural exports currently await transit. In short, the story of Black Sea security in which Putin is merely the newest instigator revolves around an enduring struggle for maritime supremacy.


Your source claims that Ukraine makes up 30% of wheat exports, when in fact it is about 4 times less, 8%

Quote:
Very interesting report. Ukraine produced 75% of traded sunflower oil, 30% of wheat, 20% of maize, almost all exported through the Black Sea, which the West has effectively ceded to Putin. Crimea is key to control of the Black Sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_exports

If they can`t get that one very basic and central aspect about Ukrainian agricultural exports right, what does it say about their "research"?.

The main importance of Crimea to Russia is the fact that it's a warm water port, their only one for a country with a practically landlocked large land mass, that aspect has been well understood since the 18th century, spawning wars between Russia and the British/Ottomans, who have had a long-standing doctrine of containing Russia, going back to the Halford Mackinder doctrine. This doctrine is extended today with figures like Boris Johnson actively scuttling peace prospects between Russia and Ukraine.

The basic fact about Crimea is that it has had a heavy majority Russian population for centuries now. Crimeans are very happy to rejoin Russia after having ceded to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1954 for arbitrary Soviet internal reasons. a fact that has been clearly reflected in the referendum and numerous polls conducted by independent western agencies which consistently showed that 85% to 90% Crimean approve of rejoining Russia.

The Kiev government looked at Crimea as a hostile population, much like they look at the Donbass and mostly Russian southern cities like Mariupol or Odessa. That`s why they cut off Crimea`s main water supply in 2014, which severely impaired Crimea`s important agricultural sector. They preferred to divert the water flow into the Black Sea rather than keep it flowing to Crimea... And you think Crimeans love the Kiev regime?!?

Crimea has been booming economically under Russian umbrella, with large infrastructure projects having been undertaken, including a large modern airport that is not the 3rd busiest airport in Russia after Moscow and St Petersburg, new port facilities, new roads, hotels, housing etc. Crimea has become the main internal tourist destination as well as a transport hub and returned a warm weather agricultural breadbasket now that the Russians have restored its water access.

Apparently the only way to change the fact that Crimeans are Russians is to outright depopulate Crimea and deport their population to Russia, policy which a French neoconservative TV station advocated recently:



This kind of shows the level of delusion that is maintained across the western MSM.
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oski003
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8:30a, 2/6/23
https://babylonbee.com/news/us-vows-to-shoot-down-chinese-spy-balloon-the-second-it-crosses-into-ukraine?utm_source=The%20Babylon%20Bee%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email

U.S. The Pentagon officially went ahead with their plan to shoot down the Chinese spy balloon as it was getting too close to Ukraine's borders, sources confirmed Saturday.

"We sent a strong message to China," said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin. "So long as the spy balloon stayed over America, we had peace. But the moment that spy balloon got a little too close to Ukraine - boom! We had to take it out."

General Austin proudly reported that the most high-tech missile defense systems in the world had been waiting to blow up the balloon for days. "Trust me, the Chinese are going to regret floating that balloon within thousands of miles of the Ukraine border. They should have kept that balloon where it was safe, floating over the U.S. and spying on American citizens."

Despite the Pentagon's assurances, many Americans have questioned why the military didn't shoot the balloon down over the U.S. "Were we, like, out of bullets?" asked local Carolina man Nate Maldonado, watching the balloon float overhead. According to sources, yes, we are out of bullets - because we sent them all to Ukraine.
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Cal88
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11:24a, 2/6/23


RIP.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:19p, 2/6/23
Cal88 said:
Unit2Sucks said:

Another example of Putin trying to rewrite history through propaganda and pretend like he's defending Russia.



Here's some analysis of why Putin really invaded Ukraine. I guess he really does love it so much he needs to destroy it. What a liberator.



Quote:
This is no coincidence. The Black Sea's unique geography a 'lake' pierced by the strategic Crimean peninsula, which controls access to the Sea of Azov, with only the Bosporus Strait as a 'pressure value' engenders a cauldron of competition. The Kremlin's access to the Black Sea enables power projection and its warm-water ports reside exclusively on Black Sea coastline. This makes control over littoral territory central to Putin's imperialist ambitions, and has led to attempts by the Kremlin to assert dominance and undermine regional stability and Western presence through so-called frozen conflicts, starting in Moldova in 1992 and continuing with the invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014. The Kremlin is now attempting to stifle Ukraine's will and strangle its economy from the sea, where 121 ships containing agricultural exports currently await transit. In short, the story of Black Sea security in which Putin is merely the newest instigator revolves around an enduring struggle for maritime supremacy.


Your source claims that Ukraine makes up 30% of wheat exports, when in fact it is about 4 times less, 8%

Quote:
Very interesting report. Ukraine produced 75% of traded sunflower oil, 30% of wheat, 20% of maize, almost all exported through the Black Sea, which the West has effectively ceded to Putin. Crimea is key to control of the Black Sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_exports

If they can`t get that one very basic and central aspect about Ukrainian agricultural exports right, what does it say about their "research"?.

The main importance of Crimea to Russia is the fact that it's a warm water port, their only one for a country with a practically landlocked large land mass, that aspect has been well understood since the 18th century, spawning wars between Russia and the British/Ottomans, who have had a long-standing doctrine of containing Russia, going back to the Halford Mackinder doctrine. This doctrine is extended today with figures like Boris Johnson actively scuttling peace prospects between Russia and Ukraine.

The basic fact about Crimea is that it has had a heavy majority Russian population for centuries now. Crimeans are very happy to rejoin Russia after having ceded to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1954 for arbitrary Soviet internal reasons. a fact that has been clearly reflected in the referendum and numerous polls conducted by independent western agencies which consistently showed that 85% to 90% Crimean approve of rejoining Russia.

The Kiev government looked at Crimea as a hostile population, much like they look at the Donbass and mostly Russian southern cities like Mariupol or Odessa. That`s why they cut off Crimea`s main water supply in 2014, which severely impaired Crimea`s important agricultural sector. They preferred to divert the water flow into the Black Sea rather than keep it flowing to Crimea... And you think Crimeans love the Kiev regime?!?

Crimea has been booming economically under Russian umbrella, with large infrastructure projects having been undertaken, including a large modern airport that is not the 3rd busiest airport in Russia after Moscow and St Petersburg, new port facilities, new roads, hotels, housing etc. Crimea has become the main internal tourist destination as well as a transport hub and returned a warm weather agricultural breadbasket now that the Russians have restored its water access.

Apparently the only way to change the fact that Crimeans are Russians is to outright depopulate Crimea and deport their population to Russia, policy which a French neoconservative TV station advocated recently:



This kind of shows the level of delusion that is maintained across the western MSM.


Edit to a great post:

not the 3rd busiest airport in Russia ->> *now*

These are major developments in a short period of time which makes the Southside of Chicago jealous.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:20p, 2/6/23
Cal88 said:


RIP.


The new Stalingrad?
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movielover
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2:59p, 2/6/23
Mossad's numbers line up with Colonel Douglass McGregor and Scott Ritter numbers.

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dimitrig
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In reply to movielover • 4:14p, 2/6/23
movielover said:
Mossad's numbers line up with Colonel Douglass McGregor and Scott Ritter numbers.



Why did Russia feel the need to kill all those people?
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 4:59p, 2/6/23
movielover said:
Mossad's numbers line up with Colonel Douglass McGregor and Scott Ritter numbers.

The fantasyland reference to the "collapsing Biden" administration starting a war with Russia undercuts everything else he had to say. If he's that divorced from reality, can we believe anything else he says?
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Cal88
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In reply to dimitrig • 6:09p, 2/6/23
dimitrig said:
movielover said:
Mossad's numbers line up with Colonel Douglass McGregor and Scott Ritter numbers.


Why did Russia feel the need to kill all those people?

1- Hostile country with WMDs at its borders
2- Ukraine had been heavily armed by NATO and was set to destroy rebel positions in the Donbass, and reconquer Crimea

We now know that Russia was seeking a peaceful resolution addressing these points, and would have done so with Ukraine had it not been for thee intervention of NATO hardliners who have scuttled peace prospects, per Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, who was at the center of the last round of negociations in March and who stated this fact in a recent long interview.
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