The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 7:24p, 2/21/23
Unit2Sucks said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Trump says State Department behind Maidan


If this were true, wouldn't Trump's disclosure be a major breach of classified information? I know Trump and his acolytes like to claim that just by pretending to have thought about something during his presidency he can declassify, but here we are 2+ years after he left office and no one can seriously think that it's okay for him to release classified information when he believes it suits him politically.

As I said during the but her emails fake scandal and for years after, there was no doubt in my mind that Trump would be the worst steward of our nation's secrets than any other president in history. Despite his many claims "you know what we used to do with spies" and his tough talk about cracking down on people who misuse classified information, he has proven himself to be every bit as bad as I suspected. He has taken hundreds of classified docs, refused to give them back and even recently still had a laptop full of classified materials. If what he is saying is true, this would probably be the most egregious breach yet of classified information.

I don't know whether the US was involved in Maidan or not. I know US people (Manafort specifically) was involved in helping Russia install their puppet government led by Yanukovich which is what led to Maidan. Yanukovich was part of the massively corrupt Ukrainian regime (with corruption a natural part of any Russian puppet state) and that he was elected in part because he promised to improve relations with the EU and West but in reality he was a Russian stooge installed by oligarchs to do Putin's bidding. I also know that the Russian shills love to talk about Maidan and never want to talk about the fact that Yanukovich was a puppet for Putin who is currently still in exile in Russia.

Of course there is always the possibility that he's full of sh(t. I mean after all he lies about everything. Honestly before this claim I would have assumed we were involve in Maidan and now I'm not so sure. But if it's true, he should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent of the law.

Not sure if you actually watched the video, but in it Trump doesn't say anything about Maidan that hasn't been said a thousand times in the Russia-fan Twitter accounts we constantly see posted here: NATO backed, Victoria Nuland, blah blah. He provides no specifics or indication that this is based on classified documents. I'd wager he literally did read it on Twitter and that's all the knowledge he has on the matter.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to sycasey • 7:57p, 2/21/23
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Trump says State Department behind Maidan


If this were true, wouldn't Trump's disclosure be a major breach of classified information? I know Trump and his acolytes like to claim that just by pretending to have thought about something during his presidency he can declassify, but here we are 2+ years after he left office and no one can seriously think that it's okay for him to release classified information when he believes it suits him politically.

As I said during the but her emails fake scandal and for years after, there was no doubt in my mind that Trump would be the worst steward of our nation's secrets than any other president in history. Despite his many claims "you know what we used to do with spies" and his tough talk about cracking down on people who misuse classified information, he has proven himself to be every bit as bad as I suspected. He has taken hundreds of classified docs, refused to give them back and even recently still had a laptop full of classified materials. If what he is saying is true, this would probably be the most egregious breach yet of classified information.

I don't know whether the US was involved in Maidan or not. I know US people (Manafort specifically) was involved in helping Russia install their puppet government led by Yanukovich which is what led to Maidan. Yanukovich was part of the massively corrupt Ukrainian regime (with corruption a natural part of any Russian puppet state) and that he was elected in part because he promised to improve relations with the EU and West but in reality he was a Russian stooge installed by oligarchs to do Putin's bidding. I also know that the Russian shills love to talk about Maidan and never want to talk about the fact that Yanukovich was a puppet for Putin who is currently still in exile in Russia.

Of course there is always the possibility that he's full of sh(t. I mean after all he lies about everything. Honestly before this claim I would have assumed we were involve in Maidan and now I'm not so sure. But if it's true, he should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent of the law.

Not sure if you actually watched the video, but in it Trump doesn't say anything about Maidan that hasn't been said a thousand times in the Russia-fan Twitter accounts we constantly see posted here: NATO backed, Victoria Nuland, blah blah. He provides no specifics or indication that this is based on classified documents. I'd wager he literally did read it on Twitter and that's all the knowledge he has on the matter.


No, I won't click on anything that anti-semitist posts. If Trump is just referring to the same old same old, then it isn't news. And like I said, if he's just full of sh(t and not saying anything new, then who cares?

The fact that he was POTUS and had access to classified information means that when he says something like this, it carries weight.

I'm sure he would say he was being sarcastic or that this is harmless hyperbole or whatever but it's dangerous and clearly irresponsible.

I'm sure it's music to the Russian shills' ears either way.
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movielover
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:47p, 2/21/23
Rich, considering you wholeheartedly back a US proxy war that has killed over 300,000 people.
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Ursine
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In reply to sycasey • 9:01p, 2/21/23
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Trump says State Department behind Maidan


If this were true, wouldn't Trump's disclosure be a major breach of classified information? I know Trump and his acolytes like to claim that just by pretending to have thought about something during his presidency he can declassify, but here we are 2+ years after he left office and no one can seriously think that it's okay for him to release classified information when he believes it suits him politically.

As I said during the but her emails fake scandal and for years after, there was no doubt in my mind that Trump would be the worst steward of our nation's secrets than any other president in history. Despite his many claims "you know what we used to do with spies" and his tough talk about cracking down on people who misuse classified information, he has proven himself to be every bit as bad as I suspected. He has taken hundreds of classified docs, refused to give them back and even recently still had a laptop full of classified materials. If what he is saying is true, this would probably be the most egregious breach yet of classified information.

I don't know whether the US was involved in Maidan or not. I know US people (Manafort specifically) was involved in helping Russia install their puppet government led by Yanukovich which is what led to Maidan. Yanukovich was part of the massively corrupt Ukrainian regime (with corruption a natural part of any Russian puppet state) and that he was elected in part because he promised to improve relations with the EU and West but in reality he was a Russian stooge installed by oligarchs to do Putin's bidding. I also know that the Russian shills love to talk about Maidan and never want to talk about the fact that Yanukovich was a puppet for Putin who is currently still in exile in Russia.

Of course there is always the possibility that he's full of sh(t. I mean after all he lies about everything. Honestly before this claim I would have assumed we were involve in Maidan and now I'm not so sure. But if it's true, he should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent of the law.

Not sure if you actually watched the video, but in it Trump doesn't say anything about Maidan that hasn't been said a thousand times in the Russia-fan Twitter accounts we constantly see posted here: NATO backed, Victoria Nuland, blah blah. He provides no specifics or indication that this is based on classified documents. I'd wager he literally did read it on Twitter and that's all the knowledge he has on the matter.
Yeah, that's why the video got removed from Youtube, because it wasn't true.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/05/25/nuland-pyatt-tape-removed-from-youtube-after-8-years/

Everybody already knows that the U.S. backed the coup, so Trump saying it isn't new information, but having a former U.S. president say the dirty part out loud, no matter how much it irks you personally, is still significant. But it's still amusing as hell watching you desperately call everybody who says something about the Ukraine situation that you don't like "Russia fans" or "pro-Putin."

My recommendation to you is to make this your new profile pic and come out of the closet. It must be very hard on you to have to hide your true self from the world. I think once you come out fully as a neoconservative, you'll realize that there are plenty of people who will accept you for what you are without judgment.


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movielover
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10:02p, 2/21/23
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 10:16p, 2/21/23
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.
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movielover
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12:07a, 2/22/23
Developing ...





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Cal88
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 6:54a, 2/22/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's [sic] neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.

In this case it is quite clear that it is NATO's aggressive expansion into Ukraine, combined with their pushing a nationalist ideology that is very hostile to Russia and to the large population of Russian minorities in Ukraine that prompted Russian intervention.

Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

All three Russian military interventions in or near their borders (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine) were prompted by active interventions by NATO, or in the case of Chechnya, the fomenting of jihadi terrorism. Incidentally that is why ISIS elements are fighting as part of the Ukrainian armed forces. Russia is fighting against the Chechnian/Dagestani division of ISIS, which is embedded in the Ukrainian army:









PS; "its", possessive... tsk tsk
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:01a, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:14a, 2/22/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:33a, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:51a, 2/22/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.
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dimitrig
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:11a, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance

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movielover
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In reply to dimitrig • 9:20a, 2/22/23
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.

We're on the record wanting to "weaken Russia", and "remove Putin". The exact opposite is happening.

The Talmud says, "If someone comes to kill you, get up early in the morning to kill him first." (Berakhot 58a; Yoma 85b; Sanhedrin 72a)
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sycasey
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In reply to dimitrig • 9:36a, 2/22/23
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance


No, no, haven't you been listening? NATO made them do it.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 11:10a, 2/22/23
sycasey said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.
Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance

No, no, haven't you been listening? NATO made them do it.

Jeffrey Sachs agrees with you:



Main points Sachs makes:

  • Ukrainians never intended to implement Minsk II
  • NATO flooded Ukraine with billions in hardware and training; massive NATO military buildup in Ukraine
  • Sachs called on NATO to stop the war in mid 2010s
  • It's about NATO - the plan all along to weaken Russia by arming Ukraine, as outlined in many policy whitepapers like BRzezinsky's
  • Europe is the huge loser here, victim of US industrial terrorism (Nordstream)
  • Overwhelming evidence US blew up Nordstream
  • Swedish investigation covered it up, cleaning up the evidence on site
  • Western MSM silent about Nordstream, Sachs contacts within the WP readily acknowledged US did it privately, but did not cover it.
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Cal88
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In reply to dimitrig • 11:39a, 2/22/23
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:


Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance

In 2014, Ukraine sent its tanks, gunship helicopters and jets to crush the rebellion in the Donbass, and its thugs in cities like Mariupol and Odessa to squash peaceful protests against the overthrow of the democratically-elected government through the bloody Maidan color revolution. After 2014, the Kiev regime turned its very large Russophone minority into a domestic enemy by restricting their basic and fundamental right to their own language and religion.

In Odessa, nearly 100 peaceful Russophone anti-Maidan protesters were surrounded by right-wing militias and were literally burned alive, or beaten to death.

In the Donbass, which is a mining and industrial region whose Russian-speaking population has a reputation for being outspoken and courageous, the population rose against Kiev, which sent in its tanks to squash them, much like the Soviets sent their tanks into Budapest and Prague in 56 and 67. Ukrainian president Poroshenko actually boated in a public speech that "the Donbass children will grow up in shelters", because they have been crushing the rebellion and bombing the Donbass since 2014.

The American public doesn't know that these events took place, for the average viewer, war started last year. In fact in eastern Ukraine this is what has really been going on since 2014:

short trailer:


People like Anna Tuv, who lost her arm, her husband, and her daughter when her Donbass village was pilloried by Ukrainian cannons in 2015 didn't matter, neither did the death of 10,000 civilians at the hands of the Kiev army:




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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 11:55a, 2/22/23
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?
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Cal88
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 12:07p, 2/22/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?

Ukraine was the largest NATO land army in the eastern hemisphere.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 12:09p, 2/22/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?


Our arms.
We trained them for 9 years.
Our military satellites, logistics and CIA.
We're sending tanks.
We're paying the military and government over $100 Billion.
We run NATO.
Our advisors and trainers in Poland.
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movielover
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1:49p, 2/22/23
HistoryLegends with another excellent update. While he notes the Ukrainian collapse on the front line, specifically around Bakhmut, he also covers Ukraine success in the south.

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movielover
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2:55p, 2/22/23


Nulandistan?



HistoryLegends claims Ukrainian battalions are only running at 50 - 60% of regular staffing.
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:06p, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's [sic] neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.

In this case it is quite clear that it is NATO's aggressive expansion into Ukraine, combined with their pushing a nationalist ideology that is very hostile to Russia and to the large population of Russian minorities in Ukraine that prompted Russian intervention.

Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

All three Russian military interventions in or near their borders (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine) were prompted by active interventions by NATO, or in the case of Chechnya, the fomenting of jihadi terrorism. Incidentally that is why ISIS elements are fighting as part of the Ukrainian armed forces. Russia is fighting against the Chechnian/Dagestani division of ISIS, which is embedded in the Ukrainian army:









PS; "its", possessive... tsk tsk

Wait - the guy who is very concerned about the antisemitic Nazi Ukrainians is linking to posts by Hassan Mafi? Maybe you weren't really concerned about Jew hating after all?

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BearGoggles
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In reply to movielover • 3:15p, 2/22/23
movielover said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?


Our arms.
We trained them for 9 years.
Our military satellites, logistics and CIA.
We're sending tanks.
We're paying the military and government over $100 Billion.
We run NATO.
Our advisors and trainers in Poland.
Did something happen approximately 9 years ago to cause the US to train and supply Ukrainians?

And Poland is a NATO country in close proximity to Russia (and its proxy Belarus). Of course there are US/NATO troops there.

While we're on the topic, since 1945, how many NATO countries have invaded their neighbors seeking to expand their borders and annex territory by force? Now compare that to Russia and the former Soviet Union.
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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 4:13p, 2/22/23
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's [sic] neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.

In this case it is quite clear that it is NATO's aggressive expansion into Ukraine, combined with their pushing a nationalist ideology that is very hostile to Russia and to the large population of Russian minorities in Ukraine that prompted Russian intervention.

Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

All three Russian military interventions in or near their borders (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine) were prompted by active interventions by NATO, or in the case of Chechnya, the fomenting of jihadi terrorism. Incidentally that is why ISIS elements are fighting as part of the Ukrainian armed forces. Russia is fighting against the Chechnian/Dagestani division of ISIS, which is embedded in the Ukrainian army:









PS; "its", possessive... tsk tsk

Wait - the guy who is very concerned about the antisemitic Nazi Ukrainians is linking to posts by Hassan Mafi? Maybe you weren't really concerned about Jew hating after all?

That was among the top results for a Twitter search on "ISIS Ukraine", I have no idea who this Hassan guy is, but he has captured in that tweet above the Danish TV report that casually featured the soldier with the Isis patch:

https://twitter.com/search?q=isis%20in%20ukraine&src=typed_query

Note that nothing comes up if you do the same image search on Google, the compromising images of embeded ISIS officers within the Ukrainian armed forces, which were there a couple of days ago, have been purged from Google...

Pre-Elon, these images of ISIS troops in Ukraine would have also been burried.
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In reply to BearGoggles • 4:40p, 2/22/23
BearGoggles said:
movielover said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?


Our arms.
We trained them for 9 years.
Our military satellites, logistics and CIA.
We're sending tanks.
We're paying the military and government over $100 Billion.
We run NATO.
Our advisors and trainers in Poland.
Did something happen approximately 9 years ago to cause the US to train and supply Ukrainians?

And Poland is a NATO country in close proximity to Russia (and its proxy Belarus). Of course there are US/NATO troops there.

While we're on the topic, since 1945, how many NATO countries have invaded their neighbors seeking to expand their borders and annex territory by force? Now compare that to Russia and the former Soviet Union.

NATO member Turkey has invaded the territory of NATO members Cyprus and Greece in 74, causing Cyprus to leave NATO.

Turkey has territorial disputes with Greece along its Aegean Sea littoral, and the risk of renewed conflagrations there is very real. Part of the reason Greece has had the highest defense budget spending as a percentage of its GDP in Europe at over 4%.

There are also border disputes in the former Yugoslavia involving NATO members Montenegro, Albania and North Macedonia that could flare up.

Hungary and Poland have land claims over Ukraine, which annexed Polish and Austro-Hungarian territories, often followed by genocidal ethnic cleansing of formerly Polish and other minorities, and Hungary has claims over Roumania, which has gobbled up Hungarian-speaking regions, and Roumania has claims over Moldova.

Western Europe has been very stable, the only reason there haven't been any border disputes there is that the borders there have long been set. These borders are often geographical in nature, most of them haven't moved in centuries, but it's not because NATO has sprinkled magical peace dust over the continent.

Russia has invaded neighbors twice since 1990, once against Georgia, and last year against Ukraine. Both instances featured NATO egging on and arming these two countries along with Russian minorities being attacked.

In that time, the US has invaded, attacked or couped at least a dozen countries.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:21p, 2/22/23
Excellent as always. I'd like to add:

- the USA, with an assist from Norway, allegedly bombed NATO ally Germany's pipeline, jointly owned with Mother Russia. And now Sweden is allegedly helping cover up this act of war.

- NATO-wanna be Ukraine has slaughtered approximately 15,000 ethnic Russians.

From The Gaggle podcast today with 'propogandist' Scott Ritter, a new point was alleged which pertains to a past allegation here.

Some Russian official allegedly (I didn't get the name) laid out a future path:

- defeat Ukraine
- install a Military overseer (?) / head of Ukraine for 2-3 years to DE-Nazify Ukraine**
- then install new leadership as a neutral Ukraine on a short leash (my shorthand)

** for those who say Russia isn't serious about Nazi's, this answers that point.

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6:12p, 2/22/23
China reveals panda face while moving closer to Russia.

Meanwhile...

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6:14p, 2/22/23
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:46p, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's [sic] neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.

In this case it is quite clear that it is NATO's aggressive expansion into Ukraine, combined with their pushing a nationalist ideology that is very hostile to Russia and to the large population of Russian minorities in Ukraine that prompted Russian intervention.

Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

All three Russian military interventions in or near their borders (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine) were prompted by active interventions by NATO, or in the case of Chechnya, the fomenting of jihadi terrorism. Incidentally that is why ISIS elements are fighting as part of the Ukrainian armed forces. Russia is fighting against the Chechnian/Dagestani division of ISIS, which is embedded in the Ukrainian army:









PS; "its", possessive... tsk tsk

Wait - the guy who is very concerned about the antisemitic Nazi Ukrainians is linking to posts by Hassan Mafi? Maybe you weren't really concerned about Jew hating after all?

I have no idea who this Hassan guy is, but

This is your problem. You post whatever crap you can find that supports your position, without any regard to the source.
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:11p, 2/22/23
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
movielover said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?


Our arms.
We trained them for 9 years.
Our military satellites, logistics and CIA.
We're sending tanks.
We're paying the military and government over $100 Billion.
We run NATO.
Our advisors and trainers in Poland.
Did something happen approximately 9 years ago to cause the US to train and supply Ukrainians?

And Poland is a NATO country in close proximity to Russia (and its proxy Belarus). Of course there are US/NATO troops there.

While we're on the topic, since 1945, how many NATO countries have invaded their neighbors seeking to expand their borders and annex territory by force? Now compare that to Russia and the former Soviet Union.

NATO member Turkey has invaded the territory of NATO members Cyprus and Greece in 74, causing Cyprus to leave NATO.

Turkey has territorial disputes with Greece along its Aegean Sea littoral, and the risk of renewed conflagrations there is very real. Part of the reason Greece has had the highest defense budget spending as a percentage of its GDP in Europe at over 4%.

There are also border disputes in the former Yugoslavia involving NATO members Montenegro, Albania and North Macedonia that could flare up.

Hungary and Poland have land claims over Ukraine, which annexed Polish and Austro-Hungarian territories, often followed by genocidal ethnic cleansing of formerly Polish and other minorities, and Hungary has claims over Roumania, which has gobbled up Hungarian-speaking regions, and Roumania has claims over Moldova.

Western Europe has been very stable, the only reason there haven't been any border disputes there is that the borders there have long been set. These borders are often geographical in nature, most of them haven't moved in centuries, but it's not because NATO has sprinkled magical peace dust over the continent.

Russia has invaded neighbors twice since 1990, once against Georgia, and last year against Ukraine. Both instances featured NATO egging on and arming these two countries along with Russian minorities being attacked.

In that time, the US has invaded, attacked or couped at least a dozen countries.
Did history start in 1990? Seems to me Russia invaded and/or dominated a whole host of countries after WWII (East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslolakia, Afghanistan, not to mention the USSR republics that became independent post 1991). But you ignore that history which of course is directly relevant to why Nato exists and why countries want to join Nato.

In term of more recent history, you have conveniently overlooked Russian invasion of Chechnya and the invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Must have slipped your mind.

Yes - the US has invaded and attacked other countries post WWII - notably not any of its neighbors. Fair point. Has the US retained territory and annexed any of its conquered territories? The "marketplace" of independent countries seem to have a lot of clarity on this issue - small independent countries want to join Nato or align with the West, but very few countries are allied with Russia (and those are mostly pariah states like N. Korea, Iran and Syria).
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movielover
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In reply to BearGoggles • 7:34p, 2/22/23
Opps, we forgot Crimea, which has been Russian for many decades prior.
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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 7:50p, 2/22/23
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
movielover said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

How does Finland feel now?

Emphasis on "feel", the policies pushed by their disco queen prime minister are based on superficial feelings driven by propaganda, and do not reflect their own best interests, which lie in an agnostic position maintaining economic relations with Russia, where companies like Nokia can dominate that large Russian market and they get the cheapest energy in the West in return.

Like Germany and the rest of western Europe, they are taking an antagonistic position promoted by NATO that hurts their own economic interests and actually greatly increases the risk of war.

Nothing is ever Russia's fault, got it.

Everything is Russia's fault.

Boris & Natasha, Ivan Drago, Red Dawn etc...

These people are so evil, they even blew up their own pipeline! It would be funny, except half the people on this board actually believe it was the case.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. I think it is very clear who the aggressor is in this instance



So you're OK with Russia setting up military bases and large airstrips in Cuba?

Don't forget, we have 400 military bases around the world, not Russia. We've recently used military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to name a few.
How many of the military bases are in Ukraine?


Our arms.
We trained them for 9 years.
Our military satellites, logistics and CIA.
We're sending tanks.
We're paying the military and government over $100 Billion.
We run NATO.
Our advisors and trainers in Poland.
Did something happen approximately 9 years ago to cause the US to train and supply Ukrainians?

And Poland is a NATO country in close proximity to Russia (and its proxy Belarus). Of course there are US/NATO troops there.

While we're on the topic, since 1945, how many NATO countries have invaded their neighbors seeking to expand their borders and annex territory by force? Now compare that to Russia and the former Soviet Union.

NATO member Turkey has invaded the territory of NATO members Cyprus and Greece in 74, causing Cyprus to leave NATO.

Turkey has territorial disputes with Greece along its Aegean Sea littoral, and the risk of renewed conflagrations there is very real. Part of the reason Greece has had the highest defense budget spending as a percentage of its GDP in Europe at over 4%.

There are also border disputes in the former Yugoslavia involving NATO members Montenegro, Albania and North Macedonia that could flare up.

Hungary and Poland have land claims over Ukraine, which annexed Polish and Austro-Hungarian territories, often followed by genocidal ethnic cleansing of formerly Polish and other minorities, and Hungary has claims over Roumania, which has gobbled up Hungarian-speaking regions, and Roumania has claims over Moldova.

Western Europe has been very stable, the only reason there haven't been any border disputes there is that the borders there have long been set. These borders are often geographical in nature, most of them haven't moved in centuries, but it's not because NATO has sprinkled magical peace dust over the continent.

Russia has invaded neighbors twice since 1990, once against Georgia, and last year against Ukraine. Both instances featured NATO egging on and arming these two countries along with Russian minorities being attacked.

In that time, the US has invaded, attacked or couped at least a dozen countries.
Did history start in 1990? Seems to me Russia invaded and/or dominated a whole host of countries after WWII (East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslolakia, Afghanistan, not to mention the USSR republics that became independent post 1991). But you ignore that history which of course is directly relevant to why Nato exists and why countries want to join Nato.

In term of more recent history, you have conveniently overlooked Russian invasion of Chechnya and the invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Must have slipped your mind.

Yes - the US has invaded and attacked other countries post WWII - notably not any of its neighbors. Fair point. Has the US retained territory and annexed any of its conquered territories? The "marketplace" of independent countries seem to have a lot of clarity on this issue - small independent countries want to join Nato or align with the West, but very few countries are allied with Russia (and those are mostly pariah states like N. Korea, Iran and Syria).

Russian history restarts in 1990, time when the Soviet Socialist Republic of Russia became the Russian Federation. Over the course of the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks viewed Russian nationalism as their main enemy, killing off around 20 million Russians, along with millions of Ukrainians during the Holodomor. Still the Soviets have culled more Russians than people of all other origins combined.

A lot of people in the West tend to completely conflate the USSR with Russia, this error is partly based on ignorance of Russian history, and partly on russophobia.

Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation. since 1859. The US backed fanatical salafist jihadis in the 1990s who were the primary opposition to Russia in the Chechen Wars. Since the 00s, the Chechens have turned the page and have had a good relation with the rest of Russia.

Remnants of the Chechen jihadis were integrated into ISIS and AlQaeda, spreading terror and chaos in Syria. And now these elements have been fully integrated into the Ukrainian armed forces...

Quote:
Has the US retained territory and annexed any of its conquered territories?
The US has 800 bases all over the world, no need to annex foreign territories when we militarily control them, especially when that control extends to economic and monetary control. We complain of Russia occupying one fifth of Ukraine when we occupy one third of Syria, the third with all the oil and wheat, "take the oil" paraphrasing Trump, and deprive the rest of the country from these vital resources.

And deny international aid for reconstruction and earthquake relief to Syria through the same kind of sanctions that have killed over half a million Iraqi children in the 1990s.
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In reply to BearGoggles • 7:55p, 2/22/23
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Maybe if Russia didn't have a long history brutal invasions of it's [sic] neighboring countries, they wouldn't looking to get defensive assistance from NATO and other countries. You reap what you sow.

In this case it is quite clear that it is NATO's aggressive expansion into Ukraine, combined with their pushing a nationalist ideology that is very hostile to Russia and to the large population of Russian minorities in Ukraine that prompted Russian intervention.

Countries like Finland and Austria, who have maintained their neutrality for decades, managed to have excellent peaceful relations with Russia throughout the postwar era.

All three Russian military interventions in or near their borders (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine) were prompted by active interventions by NATO, or in the case of Chechnya, the fomenting of jihadi terrorism. Incidentally that is why ISIS elements are fighting as part of the Ukrainian armed forces. Russia is fighting against the Chechnian/Dagestani division of ISIS, which is embedded in the Ukrainian army:









PS; "its", possessive... tsk tsk

Wait - the guy who is very concerned about the antisemitic Nazi Ukrainians is linking to posts by Hassan Mafi? Maybe you weren't really concerned about Jew hating after all?

I have no idea who this Hassan guy is, but
This is your problem. You post whatever crap you can find that supports your position, without any regard to the source.

The source, in this case, a guy from Iran apparently, has no bearing whatsoever on the content, which was a very recent report from a Danish TV program. I could have picked the same Danish TV footage from another source further down the Twitter search results.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:26p, 2/22/23
Colonel Douglass McGregor often refers to our vassal states.
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