Unit2Sucks said:

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movielover said:

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Yale MacMillian Center

Frustrated by refusals to give Russia security guarantees & implement Minsk 2, Putin recognizes pseudo-states in Donbas and invades Ukraine

"Frustrated by the continuing refusal of the U.S. and NATO to provide Russia the security guarantees it requested in December and by the refusal of Ukraine to fully implement the measures agreed by the Russian, Ukrainian, French and German leaders at Minsk in February 2015 to end the conflict between Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine that began in the spring of 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin went on television at 6 a.m. this morning, local time, and announced a "special military operation" in that region. ..."

"...In his address to the Russian people, Putin said the purpose of the "operation" was to protect people in Donbas (Donbass in Russian) "who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev (Kyiv in Ukrainian) regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation." "

"...More than anything else, it was the refusal of Ukraine to implement the provisions of Minsk 2 especially the provision that would give the predominantly Russian-speaking regions a special constitutional status that caused Russia to threaten military action against Ukraine. Time after time in recent weeks, Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei V. Lavrov made it clear in meetings and press conferences that the key to resolving the situation in and around Ukraine was the full implementation of Minsk 2,..."

"...Among the key stumbling blocks [at Minsk 2, 12th hour negotiations] were Kyiv's refusal to negotiate in the Contact Group with the leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics and its strong opposition to enacting a constitutional reform that would grant those regions a substantial degree of autonomy, ..."

"...Putin said, "Kiev is not complying with the Minsk Agreements and, in particular, is strongly opposed to a direct dialogue with Donetsk and Lugansk. Kiev is essentially sabotaging the agreements on amending the Constitution, on the special status of Donbass, on local elections and on amnesty on all the key items in the Minsk Agreements. ..."

Putin and Macron talk for 2 hours. " "It was emphasized once again that Kiev is only imitating a negotiating process and continues to refuse to implement the Minsk agreements, as well as the agreements reached as part of the Normandy format."

https://macmillan.yale.edu/news/frustrated-refusals-give-russia-security-guarantees-implement-minsk-2-putin-recognizes-pseudo

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Is there any daylight between Putin's propaganda on Minsk 2 and your personal views? You requested multiple times for me to share with you Putin's official view because it appears you were unable to find it yourself. Now that I've done so, it's reasonable for me to ask you to actually tell us what you think.

Do you agree with his view that Russia wasn't a party to Minsk 2?

Do you think that Russia's actions with respect to Minsk 2 matter or is it only Ukraine/Boris Johnson/NATO/CRT/BLM/UNICEF/PETA that matters?

Do you agree with Putin that Ukraine's failure to abide by an agreement that (Putin says) Russia wasn't a party to or bound by?

You obviously think Minsk 2 was an important agreement (or at least enjoy sharing Putin's propaganda which makes it seem that way). I'm asking you what you think. It appears that before I proved to you that Putin claims Russia wasn't a party to Minsk 2 that you had believed the opposite. Now that you have your marching orders and know that Russia's official position is different from what you expected, I imagine that must change how you feel but perhaps it just changes what propaganda you amplify?

I promise to explain to you in detail where I disagree and I won't just use Putin's propaganda to do it (although I did link to Putin's propaganda to show what Putin's official position is). I'll even link the actual Minsk 2 agreement (which you could find if you cared to do anything other than mindlessly parrot agitprop you find).

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He's waiting for Douglas Macgregor to speak about theses issues. After that, Movielover will be able to tell you what he "thinks."

#1 NEW: Victoria Nuland, a key architect of the Iraq War, responds to Elon Musk's tweet stating she is pushing for more war in Ukraine.

"If we don't support the victim in this aggression, then this aggression will be replicated all over the planet."https://t.co/O06bTvQf8i pic.twitter.com/EeIRFOHOlC

— kanekoa.substack.com (@KanekoaTheGreat) February 24, 2023

According to the infographic by Statista, US financial support for Ukraine has already exceeded the annual amount of US military spending on the war in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2010.

Take into account the numbers for Ukraine doesn't include costs for weapons & military equipment pic.twitter.com/mI728d1k0S

— Trollstoy (@Trollstoy88) February 24, 2023

🇺🇸🇨🇳🇺🇦🇷🇺"China has "advanced capabilities", in particular, in the field of ammunition production." - Pentagon

— AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 (@AZgeopolitics) February 24, 2023

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/23/china/china-position-political-settlement-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html

"In a newly released position paper Friday, China's Foreign Ministry called for a resumption of peace talks, an end to unilateral sanctions, and stressed its opposition to the use of nuclear weapons a stance Chinese leader Xi Jinping communicated to Western leaders last year."



https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-02-25-23/index.html

'US President Joe Biden dismissed China's proposed peace plan for the war in Ukraine on Friday, suggesting its implementation would only benefit Russia.

"If Putin is applauding it, so how could it be any good?" Biden said in an interview with ABC News. "I'm not being facetious. I'm being deadly earnest."
"I've seen nothing in the plan that would indicate that there is something that would be beneficial to anyone other than Russia if the Chinese plan were followed," Biden said.
Beyond his criticism of the peace plan, Biden outright rejected the notion of China negotiating peace in the war, calling it irrational.

"The idea that China is going to be negotiating the outcome of a war that is a totally unjust war for Ukraine is just not rational," Biden said.'

Happy birthday to President Zelensky, the world's richest method actor 💙💛 pic.twitter.com/5HRANnbSpF

— Львiв Tyler (@LvivTyler) January 25, 2023

movielover said:

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Happy birthday to President Zelensky, the world's richest method actor 💙💛 pic.twitter.com/5HRANnbSpF

— Львiв Tyler (@LvivTyler) January 25, 2023

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Trump is the world's richest game show host.

What a class act:





Also, I think Giuliani dressing in drag in public is now illegal in 15 states although it should probably be banned in all 50.

sycasey said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Trump says State Department behind Maidan

Holy Shlit - Trump just publicly confirmed the US State Dept was behind the Maidan Uprising in Ukrainepic.twitter.com/mSmlhLVUE9

— Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) February 21, 2023

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If this were true, wouldn't Trump's disclosure be a major breach of classified information? I know Trump and his acolytes like to claim that just by pretending to have thought about something during his presidency he can declassify, but here we are 2+ years after he left office and no one can seriously think that it's okay for him to release classified information when he believes it suits him politically.

As I said during the but her emails fake scandal and for years after, there was no doubt in my mind that Trump would be the worst steward of our nation's secrets than any other president in history. Despite his many claims "you know what we used to do with spies" and his tough talk about cracking down on people who misuse classified information, he has proven himself to be every bit as bad as I suspected. He has taken hundreds of classified docs, refused to give them back and even recently still had a laptop full of classified materials. If what he is saying is true, this would probably be the most egregious breach yet of classified information.

I don't know whether the US was involved in Maidan or not. I know US people (Manafort specifically) was involved in helping Russia install their puppet government led by Yanukovich which is what led to Maidan. Yanukovich was part of the massively corrupt Ukrainian regime (with corruption a natural part of any Russian puppet state) and that he was elected in part because he promised to improve relations with the EU and West but in reality he was a Russian stooge installed by oligarchs to do Putin's bidding. I also know that the Russian shills love to talk about Maidan and never want to talk about the fact that Yanukovich was a puppet for Putin who is currently still in exile in Russia.

Of course there is always the possibility that he's full of sh(t. I mean after all he lies about everything. Honestly before this claim I would have assumed we were involve in Maidan and now I'm not so sure. But if it's true, he should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent of the law.

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Not sure if you actually watched the video, but in it Trump doesn't say anything about Maidan that hasn't been said a thousand times in the Russia-fan Twitter accounts we constantly see posted here: NATO backed, Victoria Nuland, blah blah. He provides no specifics or indication that this is based on classified documents. I'd wager he literally did read it on Twitter and that's all the knowledge he has on the matter.

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Trump gets the same talking points that cal88 gets

movielover said:

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I admit I bought into the first Gulf War. How 'experienced' military said the ME would unfold, didn't.

Then Colin Powell and the State Dept / MIC lies surfaced. I wasn't for the second war.

Now I notice how everybody is Hitler. Sadaam. Bashar al-Assad. Putin. It's old. President Trump unleashed our energy supplies, and we were energy independent. Obviously, some people don't want that.

Now China is going to play statesman?

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We became energy independent under Obama

Azov Brigade

Rip Oleh ✨ https://t.co/QUZwT38AAN

— NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) February 22, 2023

pic.twitter.com/H4IVsqS2dM

— Srebrni Letač (@SrebrniLeta3) February 25, 2023

Bakhmut pincer 25.02.2023 pic.twitter.com/4sJTPu9ra4

— Trollstoy (@Trollstoy88) February 25, 2023

sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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Do you think John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs or Noam Chomsky should also "be ashamed" of having the same position as mine?

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Yes.

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There are very few people about whom I'd say this but Bill Kristol is an utterly amoral monster. His fingerprints are all over the worst American acts of the last 30 years. He hasn't apologized for anything or changed one view, yet Dems never wonder why he's aligned with them. https://t.co/Wb5ghQmYFV

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) February 24, 2023

Cocaine Bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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Do you think John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs or Noam Chomsky should also "be ashamed" of having the same position as mine?

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Yes.

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There are very few people about whom I'd say this but Bill Kristol is an utterly amoral monster. His fingerprints are all over the worst American acts of the last 30 years. He hasn't apologized for anything or changed one view, yet Dems never wonder why he's aligned with them. https://t.co/Wb5ghQmYFV

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) February 24, 2023

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Hi Yogi. This name isn't as original as your past burner accounts.

The best outcome for the West is a long drawn out protracted stalemate. That has more potential for instability in Russia than a quick end either way. Putin started this war. Ukraine will choose whether or not to defend itself. We are there to help Ukraine.

Opinion: How long will Russians tolerate Putin's costly war?


https://news.yahoo.com/opinion-long-russians-tolerate-putins-110056193.html

" Close to a thousand Russian soldiers are dying every day in Ukraine. Victory is nowhere in sight, and tens of thousands or possibly even hundreds of thousands more will die before the war ends.

The economy is sputtering, living standards are progressively declining, young professionals have either left in droves or are planning to do so, and every passing day reduces Russia's prospects of modernization and development."

dajo9 said:

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The best outcome for the West is a long drawn out protracted stalemate. That has more potential for instability in Russia than a quick end either way.

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At least now you neoliberal warmongers are admitting that the war is really all about Russia and has nothing to do with Ukraine.

Cocaine Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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The best outcome for the West is a long drawn out protracted stalemate. That has more potential for instability in Russia than a quick end either way.

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At least now you neoliberal warmongers are admitting that the war is really all about Russia and has nothing to do with Ukraine.

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I'm a liberal. Like FDR who beat the Nazis, Truman who set the Cold War, and JFK who stood up to the Soviet Union.

My enemy here is the leader that attacked America and helped install an authoritarian in America who tried to end our peaceful transfer of power. Putin.

I am an ally of any people that want peace and freedom.

In the US, they are now afraid that "Putin may gain the upper hand" in this rhetoric. And support for more active peacekeeping efforts is growing even in the US itself, where half of those surveyed by sociologists spoke in favor of diplomacy. In Germany,figure is even highe- 58%

— AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 (@AZgeopolitics) February 26, 2023

dajo9 said:

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The best outcome for the West is a long drawn out protracted stalemate. That has more potential for instability in Russia than a quick end either way. Putin started this war. Ukraine will choose whether or not to defend itself. We are there to help Ukraine.

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That`s the worst possible outcome, as a long drawn out war is going to result in the death of hundreds of thousands more mostly Ukrainian soldiers and the destruction of more of Ukraine.

Russia isn't suffering, their economy is chugging along just fine.

World
Russia's Resilient Economy Sees Putin Get the Last Laugh
By Brendan Cole On 2/23/23 at 3:00 AM EST

Quote:

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The collapse of the Russian economy and a run on the banks akin to what happened in 1998 when Russia defaulted on its debt has not materialized.

This was helped in part by Russia's central bank acting quickly to close down markets, hike interest rates to 20 percent and restrict currency exchange. But Russia also had the best part of a decade to steel itself for sanctions following its illegal annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014.

Last month, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) predicted that the Russian economy would rebound slightly this year to 0.3 percent growth and the following year, even achieve higher growth than the U.S., which has led the charge to financially isolate Russia.

Olga Bychkova, an economist at Moody's Analytics, told Newsweek that larger growth in the Russian economy than in the U.S. in 2024 would not be unusual, as following any recession, "emerging economies often grow faster while recovering than advanced economies."

She said that growth would resume in 2024 with modest consumption growth and a marginal recovery in exports as Russia reorients its trading relationships.

"The capacity to expand production in the Russian economy is largely limited by labor market conditions," Bychkova said, with unemployment at a record low and labor shortages increasing in many industries amid the effects of the partial mobilization.

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https://www.newsweek.com/russia-economy-resilient-sanctions-putin-last-laugh-1782655

So Russia's main economic problem going forward is their labor shortage due to record low unemployment...

Their military is doing well, contrary to what's reported in the MSM (although it seems that part of the MSM is starting to walk back their rhetoric in an effort to manage the expectations of their audience as reality becomes harder to ignore). Russia can keep their war effort without even calling for more mobilizations, they currently have 200k-250k soldiers still sitting on the sidelines.

Ukraine on the other hand, after starting with an army of 700,000-750,000, is now depleted, having to grab 16 and 60 year old boys/men off the streets. Most of Ukrainian men who wanted to fight Russia are already dead or wounded, the ones that are being pulled into service today have been forcefully taken from their families:

Ukrainian men who wanted to defend the country are already in the army. Everyone else is forced into the army. After 9 years of war if you aren't already in the army, you don't want to be in the army to fight for Ukraine.

Meanwhile Russia only had 1 partial mobilization.

— Global Thinker (@talkrealopinion) February 15, 2023

"winning" pic.twitter.com/NzLQDJ58r1

— most definitely not the FSB (@defnotfsb) February 24, 2023

Hunt for "Ukrainian patriots" who are trying to buy flowers for Valentine's Day in Odesa#Ukraine #Ukrainewar #UkraineRussiaWar #Odesa #Mobilisation #Mobilization #cannonfodder pic.twitter.com/lFvK0CFdcW

— Chronology (@Chronology22) February 14, 2023

🇺🇦 "Voluntary" mobilization in Ukraine due to the shortage of manpower in the ranks of the AFU in the combat zone. This is footage from Mukachevo. pic.twitter.com/Ahl2JiADtl

— 𝚁𝙰𝙶𝙴 𝙰𝙶𝙰𝙸𝙽𝚂𝚃 𝚃𝙷𝙴 𝚅𝙰𝙲𝙲𝙸𝙽𝙴 (@72powpow) February 18, 2023

🇺🇦I continue to cover the mobilization in the most democratic and free country in the world.
The man in the footage, like many other Ukrainians, was happy (of his own free will, of course) to join the #UkrainianArmy and fight for NAT.. freedom!😜#UkraineWar #Ukraine #Ukraina pic.twitter.com/GbWmaIeo0A

— Owari no Ōutsuke no Shinyuu (@outsukenoshinyu) February 24, 2023

Mobilization continues in all parts of Ukraine. This time they're kidnapping a man from Ternopil#Ukraine #Ukrainewar #UkraineRussiaWar #Mobilization #Mobilisation #Ternopil #Cannonfodder pic.twitter.com/kJ8Je35O8j

— Chronology (@Chronology22) February 17, 2023

Ukrainian press gang trying to conscript an 85 year old man:

In the Kharkiv region, the Ukrainian military registration and enlistment office sent militants to hand over a summons to a pensioner who is 85 years old.#Mobilization #Mobilisation #Ukraine #Ukrainewar #UkraineRussiaWar #cannonfodder #Kharkiv pic.twitter.com/9S10Rgk2Gd

— Chronology (@Chronology22) February 20, 2023

In Ukraine, they found a new driver for the Abrams tank.

In fact, if no jokes, then there are more than 10 such videos a day, we just don’t publish them. Forced mobilization in Ukraine continues pic.twitter.com/JofgCHAVd5

— Avia.Pro - 🛡️Foreign Affairs - 📡Geopolitics (@avia_pro) February 21, 2023

Ukraine is run by ideological zealots like her:

In Ukraine, there is a need for a mobilization resource, since there are units at the front that need rotation, but now there is a drop in enthusiasm among people of military age, - representative of the operational command "South" Natalya Gumenyuk

You don't say? pic.twitter.com/Vtw4dwoZq0

— Donbass Devushka (@PeImeniPusha) February 17, 2023

I stand with these women from Ukraine:

Women stop mobilization bus from getting to their village.
They are willing to stand in front of the car blocking it to save their brothers husbands and sons from mobilization into #Ukraine military pic.twitter.com/e5WYszvlPR

— Arthur Morgan (@ArthurM40330824) February 17, 2023

I watched a segment on NHK World about how the Russian propaganda machine is working overdrive and how it is slowly starting to change the narrative of the war. Of course, we see examples of that here on a daily basis.

In the piece they examined several YouTube videos and pointed out how they were faked/staged.

They also went through the comments section and pointed out how many of the comments were tied to known Russian troll farms.

Of course this isn't new and Ukraine does this, too, but I would think that people that went to Cal would be skeptical enough of this sort misinformation that they wouldn't flood this channel with it.

I know we all just can't wait to sign in every day to see what else Colonel McGregor has to say.

When will one of these forced recruits pull a piece and put a cap in a few brothers?

Colonel McGregor actually recently contradicted himself, saying Russia was running low on ammunitions? Or maybe it's CYA as he predicted when the 'big offensive' was going to start, and it didn't happen. Bakhmut is a real bloodbath, very ugly.

Murmurs of potential talks. We'll see. It looks like Russia is selling tons of oil to North Africa?! Domestic use, or gray market resale to Europa?

dimitrig said:

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I watched a segment on NHK World about how the Russian propaganda machine is working overdrive and how it is slowly starting to change the narrative of the war. Of course, we see examples of that here on a daily basis.

In the piece they examined several YouTube videos and pointed out how they were faked/staged.

They also went through the comments section and pointed out how many of the comments were tied to known Russian troll farms.

Of course this isn't new and Ukraine does this, too, but I would think that people that went to Cal would be skeptical enough of this sort misinformation that they wouldn't flood this channel with it.

I know we all just can't wait to sign in every day to see what else Colonel McGregor has to say.

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I see on this forum what looks to be "Russian propaganda", but when I watch my news sources (closer to "MSM"), I also see what seems to be American propaganda, perhaps disguised as Ukranian propaganda. I see that here, too.

So I have to balance the two.

Bottom line, this war is ripping up Ukraine, horribly so, but I like to think they will survive and eventually prosper. But Russia's gotta be suffering too and when you look at their long-term prospects, they are not doing themselves any favors at all with this insane war. It's a lose-lose for them.

Zelensky will let the whole country be devastated before he accepts any compromise like:

- Donbas 100% independent, or part of Russia. (10-15% of Ukraine?)
- Crimea accepted as Russian
- no NATO in Ukraine; Ukraine neutral
- some kind of 100-mile buffer from the Donbas westward, where there are no heavy military weapons

Zelensky also has radical Nazi elements who killed their peace negotiator, so he might have to exit the country.

The longer this goes, the more Russia will demand.

movielover said:

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Colonel McGregor actually recently contradicted himself, saying Russia was running low on ammunitions? Or maybe it's CYA as he predicted when the 'big offensive' was going to start, and it didn't happen. Bakhmut is a real bloodbath, very ugly.

Murmurs of potential talks. We'll see. It looks like Russia is selling tons of oil to North Africa?! Domestic use, or gray market resale to Europa?

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You will know when the Russians run low on ammunition, that's when they will just order more from China and North Korea, who have the two largest stockpiles of conventional ammo in the world. You can bet that the Chinese have been cranking up their production, not just in shells but also in drones and long-range missiles.

Apparently Wagner is now getting all the ammo they want, they are on the verge of completely encircling Bakhmut, having made a big push on the northern side coming near the last remaining road to that city, threatening to trap 5,000+ Ukrainian soldiers (Artyomovsk = Bakhmut in Russian).

It is reported that the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported to Zelensky about the tactical encirclement of Artyomovsk of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the impossibility of evacuating the remaining Ukrainian units. pic.twitter.com/rR3qKTWTXA

— -- GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 -- (@GeromanAT) February 26, 2023

movielover said:

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Zelensky will let the whole country be devastated before he accepts any compromise like:

- Donbas 100% independent, or part of Russia. (10-15% of Ukraine?)
- Crimea accepted as Russian
- no NATO in Ukraine; Ukraine neutral
- some kind of 100-mile buffer from the Donbas westward, where there are no heavy military weapons

Zelensky also has radical Nazi elements who killed their peace negotiator, so he might have to exit the country.

The longer this goes, the more Russia will demand.

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The Chinese peace proposal spells this out, ceding to Russia all the territories it currently holds, and turning the rest of the Dniepr left bank into a demilitarized zone, presumably also under some kind of Russian control, here is the map:



It seems like China and Russia are syncing their positions here. Russia is most likely going to start making pushes across the red zone above this Spring and Summer, when Ukraine will be very low on shells, and Russia will have breached the last line of heavily reinforced Ukrainian defenses in the Donbass. The Russians can start making large territorial gains with relatively fewer losses at that point.

Also this arrangement puts almost all the main cities in Ukraine along the Dniepr (Kiev, Dnipro, Zaporizhie) under Russian military control from the left bank.

Also, this is a plan that can work in the long term as the border will be physically set by the Dniepr river, which is quite wide by European standards.