Unit2Sucks said:

---

NYT ran an article about Russia's "offensive" that is factually consistent with other reporting and notes how different the results are from the propaganda spread by shills for months. While the pro-Putin crowd is trying to spin this offensive stalemate as a planned win for Putin, it is what it is. Even when it eventually takes Bakhmut, it will have accomplished less than it aimed to do in the first 3 days of this unprovoked war and is still far behind where it was last spring.

---

Russia has not mounted any large offensive, they are keeping large reserves on the margin in anticipation of a Ukrainian offensive, manning defensive positions (especially in in the south, but also on the flanks of Bakhmut) and positioning themselves for a counterattack should Ukraine spread itself too thin.

They are still relying on their artillery advantage, favoring a more static frontline, while still attriting Ukrainian high-value targets like AA systems, cannons, ammo depots etc.

As well the longer this goes, the more Ukraine's artillery capacity is depleted, both in ammunition and in "tubes", as NATO cannons like the M777 are not built to last, they're lighweight systems not meant for a war of attrition, contrary to the Russian equipment.

NATO is now sourcing shells from countries like Pakistan, Morocco, Egypt etc, in low-profile deals as these governments don't want to be publicly seen as supporting NATO, which is a highly unpopular position at home, but these governments and military officials are probably getting huge kickbacks. This however is only a temporary fix, the only mass producer of 155mm shells in the NATO camp today is South Korea, yet their production levels are still too small to come close to matching Russian volumes and Ukrainian needs.

Russia has also turned the table in Vulhedar and other fronts through the use of their 1,500kg gliding bombs, which are knocking down Ukrainian highrise outposts.

⚡️Complete obliteration of Ukrainian positions in Ugledar using precision gliding bombs.

Ukrainians are having a very hard time dealing with these, which Russia started to use intensively in all fronts. pic.twitter.com/5lAbmHhURO

— What's the media hiding? (@narrative_hole) April 4, 2023

In addition to the gliding bombs mentioned above, they've also developed a cheap ingenious gliding strap that turns a 500kg gravity bomb into a sophisticated GPS-guided JDAM. They have tens of thousands of these bombs in storage, they will only be limited by the number of fighter-bomber sorties in using them, they are dropped from altitude by Sukhois from 40km out, well beyond the reach of Ukrainian AA.

❗️Model of the "gliding & correction" kit for FAB-500 M62 bombs -- MPK (Russian acronym)

Produced by NPO Bazalt pic.twitter.com/M1GuNIzCSo

— Tony (@Cyberspec1) April 6, 2023

This is a gamechanger, one that might prompt NATO to unload its cruise missile arsenal. F16s are not going to help much as they will be very vulnerable to both S-300/400 AA and to longer range missile strikes on their air bases. This situation means that Ukraine can no longer afford to keep fighting a static war, as now even their reinforced bunkers and tower positions are getting levelled with the 1.5T Russian barrage.

dimitrig said:

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movielover said:

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This leaked Pentagon planning document for the US proxy war in Ukraine reveals that the ‘spring offensive’ will start mid April (see blue bars on the right) and that war plans are shared with FVEY (Five Eyes) including New Zealand. This Intel provides a big advantage to Russia. https://t.co/hs79atdfDU

— Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom) April 7, 2023

---

When things "leak" they aren't always what they seem.

I can't believe how naive some people, including Elon freaking Musk, can be.

---

There are people within NATO leadership who are not happy with this war and its conduct, knowing that it is a lost cause, fighting to the last Ukrainian, much like in the Vietnam or Afghanistan campaigns.

As such it isn't surprising that documents like these have been leaked...

This is the kind of NATO intel that people like Col. MacGregor have been privy to all along. The KIA loss ratio they report was 71,000 Ukrainian KIAs vs 17,000 Russians, roughly 4 to 1, which I believe might be an understimation of the Ukrainian loss ratio.

The story originated with The New York Times. What does history tell us about our leaks? Here's a theory. Our domestic intelligence interests leak to the NYT. (If it was a State Dept stakeholder interest, it would be published by CNN.)

It is a circular construct. A domestic intelligence community product leaks to social media platforms containing portals controlled by domestic IC. (See Twitter Files.) Then the IC reports on the leak to create their narrative.

What about timing. Why now? Why would the IC plant classified information, then report on the classified information they planted?

Eighteen hours prior, Russian pranksters Vovan and Lexus tricked former French President Francios Hollande into admitting the U.S. government and western alliance were behind all of the events in Ukraine since 2014, with the intention of starting a proxy war against Russia (using Ukraine). They also got Hollande to admit the Minsk Accords were a NATO ruse to militarize Ukraine.

As noted by Gonzalo Lira, "Franois Hollande, former president of France, confirms that the 2014 coup d'etat in Ukraine was part of a long-term plan to have Ukraine fight a proxy war against Russia. The Americans have been preparing this war since the Obama administrationit is now confirmed beyond doubt."

This is a bombshell. These statements by the former President are a serious issue for the White House and U.S. Intelligence Community.

Then the IC tells the story of the classified strategy leak to the New York Times and begins restarting a Russian mis / disinformation campaign. Deflection. The leak story has surpassed the Hollande admission.

François Hollande, former president of France, confirms that the 2014 coup d’etat in Ukraine was part of a long-term plan to have Ukraine fight a proxy war against Russia.

The Americans have been preparing this war since the Obama administration—it is now confirmed beyond doubt. https://t.co/SPr1hoqp57

— Gonzalo Lira (@GonzaloLira1968) April 6, 2023

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

movielover said:

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You guys crushing on Putin?

---

Quite the opposite. If he has no personal agency and is just pushed into things like military invasions, he must not be as smart or civilized as his defenders would like to claim.

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Had to post this here lol. Russian soldier got hold of a AT4 (swedish anti-tank) and decided to show us how its fired

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/12fx7t7/a_russian_military_propagandist_attempted_to/

Poor NATO Quality!!!

---

I wonder at what stage in life did Minot decide to become a cheerleader against America

Macron: Europe should not depend on the US and the dollar

Europe has become more dependent on the United States in recent years, but it must strengthen its strategic autonomy and not depend on the extraterritoriality of the dollar. This was stated by French President Emmanuel… pic.twitter.com/DxRklgCH46

— Spriter (@Spriter99880) April 9, 2023

dajo9 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Had to post this here lol. Russian soldier got hold of a AT4 (swedish anti-tank) and decided to show us how its fired

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/12fx7t7/a_russian_military_propagandist_attempted_to/

Poor NATO Quality!!!

---

I wonder at what stage in life did Minot decide to become a cheerleader against America

---

As soon as a Democrat became president.

dajo9 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Had to post this here lol. Russian soldier got hold of a AT4 (swedish anti-tank) and decided to show us how its fired

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/12fx7t7/a_russian_military_propagandist_attempted_to/

Poor NATO Quality!!!

---

I wonder at what stage in life did Minot decide to become a cheerleader against America

---

The day you decided you didn't even watch the link I posted.

BRICS+ is creating a new joint global reserve currency backed by natural resources to replace the USD reserve currency which is backed by NOTHING.

Those who say that global trade will still be in USD in 5 yrs are delusional. US Empire can’t stop the inevitable: Bankruptcy it is.

— Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom) April 9, 2023

BRICS will also soon represent the demographic majority of humanity, once they add the next couple of rounds of expansion with countries like Indonesia, Nigeria, Egypt etc. They also have the majority of world economic growth, as most G7 countries are mature economies in a state of demographic decline. And to make things worse, the G7 are pushing self-imposed "climate emergency" deindustrialization policies, which the rest of the world will not follow.

There are some definite bright spots in the very drastic geopolitical shifts happening right now, for instance the end of the highly destructive Yemen war and the reconstruction of Syria and Iraq through the peace agreements between Iran and Saudi Arabia brokered by China, as well as the rapprochement between Russia and Turkey. The civil wars in Yemen, Syria and Iraq were largely proxy wars between the US/Israel/Saudi and Iran/Russia, the prospect of these wars ending is a tremendous development. Hopefully we will get there soon enough in Ukraine as well...

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

US covert policy in Ukraine has been to prop up Ukrainian Banderite nationalism, since 1947, this is well documented, operation codenamed Aerodynamic. This operation was squashed by the USSR and floundered, until the dissolution of the Soviet Union, when it really took off, culminating in the 2014 Maidan Coup, where newly-formed neo-nazi armed militias like Azov, Svoboda, Right Sector, C14 took over the streets and physically intimidated those that dared oppose their vision for Ukraine, killing dozens of peaceful Russophone protestors in Odessa alone.

The leader of the Aerodynamic project was Yaroslav Stetsko, a close friend and partner of Stepan Bandera. Stetsko oversaw the massacres of tens of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians in 1940s Ukraine.

From CNN (back in the day they did do some decent journalistic work, amazingly) :

Quote:

---

The Ukrainian collaborator Yaroslav Stetsko ...had a knack for organizing the butchers of Jews. On June 30, 1941, as Germany invaded Ukraine, Stetsko welcomed the Nazis, proclaiming the creation of a Ukrainian state which would "work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany under the leadership of Adolf Hitler." As this was happening, members of Stetsko's Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) were slaughtering thousands of Jews across Ukraine.

At the end of the war, Stetsko who had eagerly written about the need to adopt Germany's genocide methods to exterminate Ukraine's Jews decamped for America, where he spent decades running the OUN from the US while traveling in the highest circles of Washington, DC. Both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush celebrated Stetsko as a staunch anti-communist freedom fighter.

---

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/opinions/dark-postscript-america-nazis-golinkin/index.html


Stetko with then ClA chief Poppy Bush

Quote:

---

The newly formed Ukrainian state will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.

The Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army which has been formed on the Ukrainian lands, will continue to fight with the Allied German Army against Moscovite occupation for a sovereign and united State and a new order in the whole world.

Long live the Ukrainian Sovereign United Ukraine!
Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists!
Long live the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian
people STEPAN BANDERA.
SLAVA UKRAINI!"

Yaroslav Stetsko, from the "Act of Restoration of the Ukrainian State"

---

After Stetko's death in 1986, he leadership of the Ukrainian nationalist movement in US exile under the tutorship and funding of the US went to this gentleman here, Mykola Lebed:

Quote:

---

New York - Declassified CIA files reveal that U.S. intelligence officials went to great lengths to protect a Ukrainian fascist leader and suspected Nazi collaborator from prosecution after World War II and set him up in a New York office to wage covert war against the Soviet Union, according to a new report to Congress.

---

After the collapse of the USSR, Russia gradually replaced it as a new Cold War adversary. The Ukrainian nationalism project from DC grew in importance. This brand of radical neo-nazi nationalism continued to be promoted because at its core it defined Ukrainians as European aryans and Russians as asiatic untermensch, an existential enemy whose cultural presence within Ukraine had to be eradicated. As such it was an ideology that suited covert US Cold War 2 interests well by creating instability in Russia's soft underbelly and putting Ukraine on the warpath with Russia.


McCain with neo-nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok



Ukraine: The CIA's 75-year-old Proxy
https://mronline.org/2022/09/14/ukraine/

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

---

Cal alum Eric Li, a Chinese citizen on this subject, said that you can change parties in the US, but you can't change policies, whereas in China you can't change parties but the policies adapt and change, providing economic success to their people.





The US is failing in a number of key sectors, like providing affordable education, healthcare, building infrastructure, addressing urban issues (crime, poverty, broken families etc), maintaining its large middle class and weening itself from the MIC. And on top of that, we have had a loss in liberties that are presumably enshrined into the Constitution.

China has done all these things better over the last two decades. That's why today they are seen as the model for the developing world.

---

That is wrong.

China's housing market is in shambles and is aided by a shrinking population. Their healthcare system completely failed the covid pandemic to the pointt they stopped collecting data. The best and brightest still go abroad for schooling.

But the cherry on top is when you stated that China is preserving the liberties of their citizens better than the USA?

The uighars, the Hong Kong protests, and everyone locked in their house for months on end disagree.

Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

US covert policy in Ukraine has been to prop up Ukrainian Banderite nationalism, since 1947, this is well documented, operation codenamed Aerodynamic. This operation was squashed by the USSR and floundered, until the dissolution of the Soviet Union, when it really took off, culminating in the 2014 Maidan Coup, where newly-formed neo-nazi armed militias like Azov, Svoboda, Right Sector, C14 took over the streets and physically intimidated those that dared oppose their vision for Ukraine, killing dozens of peaceful Russophone protestors in Odessa alone.

The leader of the Aerodynamic project was Yaroslav Stetsko, a close friend and partner of Stepan Bandera. Stetsko oversaw the massacres of tens of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians in 1940s Ukraine.

From CNN (back in the day they did do some decent journalistic work, amazingly) :

Quote:

---

The Ukrainian collaborator Yaroslav Stetsko ...had a knack for organizing the butchers of Jews. On June 30, 1941, as Germany invaded Ukraine, Stetsko welcomed the Nazis, proclaiming the creation of a Ukrainian state which would "work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany under the leadership of Adolf Hitler." As this was happening, members of Stetsko's Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) were slaughtering thousands of Jews across Ukraine.

At the end of the war, Stetsko who had eagerly written about the need to adopt Germany's genocide methods to exterminate Ukraine's Jews decamped for America, where he spent decades running the OUN from the US while traveling in the highest circles of Washington, DC. Both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush celebrated Stetsko as a staunch anti-communist freedom fighter.

---

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/opinions/dark-postscript-america-nazis-golinkin/index.html


Stetko with then ClA chief Poppy Bush

Quote:

---

The newly formed Ukrainian state will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.

The Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army which has been formed on the Ukrainian lands, will continue to fight with the Allied German Army against Moscovite occupation for a sovereign and united State and a new order in the whole world.

Long live the Ukrainian Sovereign United Ukraine!
Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists!
Long live the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian
people STEPAN BANDERA.
SLAVA UKRAINI!"

Yaroslav Stetsko, from the "Act of Restoration of the Ukrainian State"

---

After Stetko's death in 1986, he leadership of the Ukrainian nationalist movement in US exile under the tutorship and funding of the US went to this gentleman here, Mykola Lebed:

Quote:

---

New York - Declassified CIA files reveal that U.S. intelligence officials went to great lengths to protect a Ukrainian fascist leader and suspected Nazi collaborator from prosecution after World War II and set him up in a New York office to wage covert war against the Soviet Union, according to a new report to Congress.

---

After the collapse of the USSR, Russia gradually replaced it as a new Cold War adversary. The Ukrainian nationalism project from DC grew in importance. This brand of radical neo-nazi nationalism continued to be promoted because at its core it defined Ukrainians as European aryans and Russians as asiatic untermensch, an existential enemy whose cultural presence within Ukraine had to be eradicated. As such it was an ideology that suited covert US Cold War 2 interests well by creating instability in Russia's soft underbelly and putting Ukraine on the warpath with Russia.


McCain with neo-nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok



Ukraine: The CIA's 75-year-old Proxy
https://mronline.org/2022/09/14/ukraine/

---

Cool story bro!

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

---

Cal alum Eric Li, a Chinese citizen on this subject, said that you can change parties in the US, but you can't change policies, whereas in China you can't change parties but the policies adapt and change, providing economic success to their people.





The US is failing in a number of key sectors, like providing affordable education, healthcare, building infrastructure, addressing urban issues (crime, poverty, broken families etc), maintaining its large middle class and weening itself from the MIC. And on top of that, we have had a loss in liberties that are presumably enshrined into the Constitution.

China has done all these things better over the last two decades. That's why today they are seen as the model for the developing world.

---

That is wrong.

China's housing market is in shambles and is aided by a shrinking population. Their healthcare system completely failed the covid pandemic to the pointt they stopped collecting data. The best and brightest still go abroad for schooling.

But the cherry on top is when you stated that China is preserving the liberties of their citizens better than the USA?

The uighars, the Hong Kong protests, and everyone locked in their house for months on end disagree.

---

Notice how Cal88 always sticks up for authoritarian countries over liberal democracies.

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

---

Cal alum Eric Li, a Chinese citizen on this subject, said that you can change parties in the US, but you can't change policies, whereas in China you can't change parties but the policies adapt and change, providing economic success to their people.





The US is failing in a number of key sectors, like providing affordable education, healthcare, building infrastructure, addressing urban issues (crime, poverty, broken families etc), maintaining its large middle class and weening itself from the MIC. And on top of that, we have had a loss in liberties that are presumably enshrined into the Constitution.

China has done all these things better over the last two decades. That's why today they are seen as the model for the developing world.

---

That is wrong.

China's housing market is in shambles and is aided by a shrinking population. Their healthcare system completely failed the covid pandemic to the pointt they stopped collecting data. The best and brightest still go abroad for schooling.

But the cherry on top is when you stated that China is preserving the liberties of their citizens better than the USA?

The uighars, the Hong Kong protests, and everyone locked in their house for months on end disagree.

---

Notice how Cal88 always sticks up for authoritarian countries over liberal democracies.

---

Who cares...go after the argument, not the person. If you're just going to attack the poster, why even argue on here?

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

---

Cal alum Eric Li, a Chinese citizen on this subject, said that you can change parties in the US, but you can't change policies, whereas in China you can't change parties but the policies adapt and change, providing economic success to their people.





The US is failing in a number of key sectors, like providing affordable education, healthcare, building infrastructure, addressing urban issues (crime, poverty, broken families etc), maintaining its large middle class and weening itself from the MIC. And on top of that, we have had a loss in liberties that are presumably enshrined into the Constitution.

China has done all these things better over the last two decades. That's why today they are seen as the model for the developing world.

---

That is wrong.

China's housing market is in shambles and is aided by a shrinking population. Their healthcare system completely failed the covid pandemic to the pointt they stopped collecting data. The best and brightest still go abroad for schooling.

But the cherry on top is when you stated that China is preserving the liberties of their citizens better than the USA?

The uighars, the Hong Kong protests, and everyone locked in their house for months on end disagree.

---

Notice how Cal88 always sticks up for authoritarian countries over liberal democracies.

---

Who cares...go after the argument, not the person. If you're just going to attack the poster, why even argue on here?

---

Okay. His arguments are usually bad and when they are it's always in one direction. I'm just pointing that out.

Also, who cares about supporting authoritarians over democratic leaders? Not sure how to answer that.

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

So it was the Americans that convinced the Russians they had to De-Nazify Ukraine. It all makes no sense now!

Did the Americans force Russia to illegally annex Crimea? What about invade Georgia? Or put down the Chechen rebellion?

---

The important thing to remember is that Russia has always been forced into every bad thing they appear to have done. They're basically wild animals, just reacting to stimuli. They can't make any decisions for themselves.

At least this appears to be the argument, when you lay it all out.

---

What we are seeing across the Putinverse is a sloppy desperation matched by Putin's descent into the Howard Hughes phase of his life. As Putin falls further and further into his Hitler-in-a-bunker paranoia, Russian disinformation has become even more and more detached from reality. For example, Putin no longer travels by air and only by armored train.

After years of being lied to about the strength of his command-less military, he is unwilling to accept reality so his handlers are forced to paint a pretty picture for him and we are seeing that mirrored across the various disinformation channels that they employ. I have no doubt that they continue to lie about the disproportionate casualties they have taken because they cannot tell him the truth.

We've also seen a shifting narrative play itself out repeatedly during this war. They would have us believe that Russia has purposefully accomplished nothing to date in this war but is about to crack the big one because of some new thing. They've been saying this from basically day one and it hasn't come true yet. The reality is that Russia is trying to win this war but has been unable to for a multitude of reasons. They didn't decide in some sophisticated war room to trot out an incompetent and unprepared military force for 400+ days in order to set the table for some new thing. They promised a big winter offensive but now pretend that there never was a winter offensive and that they were just preparing for UFA's spring offensive. If you go back and look at what the Russian propagandists (now with blue checks!) have been saying about the war the last few months, it's hilarious. They told us Bakhmut was turning in favor of Russia in last fall and then earlier in winter and then again in February (without admitting that it meant that things weren't in Russia's favor before then). And then again in March. And now here we are in April but this time it's real. No seriously! We were told by Ritter Mcgregor that Bakhmut fell a few weeks ago. And so on and so forth.

It's all pointless and unconvincing but they are still delusional enough to think it works. But, here in the real world, Russia is further from winning this war than they were 1 year ago and they have no path to a lasting victory as enemy occupiers.

---

Well said.

Having been born in the early 80's most of my life and all of my critically thinking life occurred after the cold war ended (I vaguely remember seeing the images of the berlin wall and the coup attempt in moscow, though I didnt understand their impact then). The last 30 years has been mostly voided of great power conflict and until recent years the authoritarian regime of Russia aided by the much stronger authoritarian regime of China began to challenge US authority and the pre-eminence of democracy as the government of choice.

Therefore, I am only seeing the true strength of democracy as a form of government in practice now. Yes, its messy and it looks like the US is tearing apart, but the visibility of the issues is its the greatest strength. All the reasons you cited about Putin and the Russian war effort are prevalent in authoritarian regimes and ultimately cause it's own failure. In a democracy short-comings are exposed and addressed this allowing for change and improvement.

---

In Democracies, the flexibility and ability to adapt is a feature, not a bug.

---

Cal alum Eric Li, a Chinese citizen on this subject, said that you can change parties in the US, but you can't change policies, whereas in China you can't change parties but the policies adapt and change, providing economic success to their people.





The US is failing in a number of key sectors, like providing affordable education, healthcare, building infrastructure, addressing urban issues (crime, poverty, broken families etc), maintaining its large middle class and weening itself from the MIC. And on top of that, we have had a loss in liberties that are presumably enshrined into the Constitution.

China has done all these things better over the last two decades. That's why today they are seen as the model for the developing world.

---

That is wrong.

China's housing market is in shambles and is aided by a shrinking population. Their healthcare system completely failed the covid pandemic to the pointt they stopped collecting data. The best and brightest still go abroad for schooling.

But the cherry on top is when you stated that China is preserving the liberties of their citizens better than the USA?

The uighars, the Hong Kong protests, and everyone locked in their house for months on end disagree.

---

Notice how Cal88 always sticks up for authoritarian countries over liberal democracies.

---

Who cares...go after the argument, not the person. If you're just going to attack the poster, why even argue on here?

---

Okay. His arguments are usually bad and when they are it's always in one direction. I'm just pointing that out.

Also, who cares about supporting authoritarians over democratic leaders? Not sure how to answer that.

---

Signed,
Current Year University