Shocking❗️
— Based Hungary 🇭🇺 (@HungaryBased) April 28, 2023
Prime Minister Viktor Orbán explains the reason for the war in Europe.
"Complete restructuring of power within Europe" 🇭🇺 pic.twitter.com/j9OtS8le6h
The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread
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Last: 21 hrs ago by bear2034
golden sloth said:Cal88 said:
Good article on the state of industrial warfare in this conflict:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-04-28/ukraine-and-the-pentagon-are-using-ammo-far-faster-than-us-makes-it
...
At this point it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no military solution for Ukraine, and that they are likely to be in a much more difficult negotiation position down the line, not to mention the additional tens or even hundreds of thousands of additional casualties they are likely to sustain this year if this grind of a war keeps going. That is the reality that unfortunately analysts and insiders like the author of the article above are refusing to accept.
No. The reason the Russians are trying to make this a war of attrition is because they are too inept to pull off a western style war of maneuver. They attempted that in the first weeks of the war with their thunder run on Kyiv. Of course that failed miserably.
"Western-style wars of maneuver" only work when you if have near-complete air superiority, such as the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Ukraine started the war with nearly a thousand units of AA equipment, including several hundreds S-300 launchers.
The Russians took a chance early on by raiding Kiev with a small force, with the political goal of putting pressure on the Zelensky government to sign (and abide by) another Minsk-stle agreement. That plan only failed because NATO intervened, notably Boris Johnson, pushing Ukraine to keep fighting. The result is 450,000+ more Ukrainian casualties since then, and counting...
Ukraine is going to be forced to come to the table after its army is exhausted, they would have been better off on all levels had they signed a Minsk III last March instead of being pushed by NATO into a suicidal war of attrition against Russia.
Quote:
They then tried to turn to the only way Russia has ever won a war, and throw waves of their sons and daughters at the the enemy and outlast them. While killing civilians for no real reason other than general bloodlust.
So the Russians are "killing civilians for no real reason", yet the ratio of civilians killed in this war is less than 10%. versus 80%-90% civilians killed in US-led wars like Afghanistan and Iraq?
The territories where Russia is currently fighting are regions where the majority of the local population is pro-Russian, but even in western Ukraine, the Russians have not targeted civilian population Dresden-style, they have targeted infrastructure assets like powerplants and warehouses. The worst cases of urban hits in western Ukraine were from Ukrainian stray AA missiles that have landed on apartment blocks, including the one U2Sucks pulled out at the top of this page:
Ukrainian propaganda again goes with that Russians used Kaliber missiles to hit the residential sector.
— Mats Nilsson (@mazzenilsson) April 28, 2023
In fact #Nikolaev governor Vitaliy Kim admitted that it were again four S-300 that hit the residential sector.https://t.co/gqpG79Ib66
While some Russian TG sources say that… pic.twitter.com/XLrZdCLFPY
...Whereas Ukrainian forces have continuously shelled Donetsk, the largest city in the Donbass, since the mid-2010s, here is the latest installment (not covered anywhere in the MSM):
Ukraine shelling civilians in Donetsk City.
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
Horrified passengers gasp and shriek in terror as their bus drives inches past the vehicle that was subject of Ukrainian shelling.
Killing 7 people, including children.
Why is the western mainstream media so silent about this?
🤔 pic.twitter.com/oc8GI04JGq
golden sloth said:movielover said:
This Swamp creature makes my head hurt, especially after listening to the author of five books, Colonel McGregor.
The term is surge capacity. We (and NATO) had insufficient stock piles to provoke war with Russia, and zero surge capacity. Colonel McGregor says this has been known for decades. They produced no practical answer.
Except NATO did not provoke this war. Russia chose to have this war when they declared Ukrainians as not a real people and subsequently invaded. It's not NATO's fault Russia wants to genocide ukraine and steal their land.
This 1 minute capsule from Mearsheimer's 2015 presentation on the Ukraine conflict is still the most accurate and legitimate analysis of this war:
The best advice to solve the Russia-Ukraine Conflict was given by John J. Mearsheimer in 2015 which nobody listened.
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
"The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked"
pic.twitter.com/JhGF1VZxqM
Russia doesn't want to steal Ukrainian lands or genocide them, they want a neutral state at their border, not a hostile state armed to the gills, same as the US (see Cuba '63, and the Monroe Doctrine) or China (Taiwan). Geopolitics 101.
The guy from the Rogan show that you've panned actually brought some solid points, including actual quotes from leading US policymakers, here is the complete text from that tweet above:
".@ComicDaveSmith shocks@JoeRogan
with a powerful rant about NATO expansion, the 2014 Ukraine coup, and how American policies led to the War in Ukraine, bringing us closer to a potential nuclear World War III:
"It's not like it's just Ron Paul, Noam Chomsky, and Pat Buchanan like the outsiders who were against NATO expansion. But the list of people within the government, within the natural security apparatus, who completely opposed NATO expansion is very impressive and long."
Robert McNamara (Sec. of Defense)
Robert Gates (Sec. of Defense)
William Perry (Sec. of Defense)
George Kennan (American diplomat)
William Burns (CIA Director)
"They all opposed NATO expansion in the strongest possible language and all explicitly because this will provoke a conflict with Russia. There's this great interview that George Kennan gave with Thomas Friedman from the New York Times in the 90s when they were doing the first round of NATO expansion, and he is furious... What are you guys doing? We won the Cold War. Now, you are picking a fight with Russia?
These aren't the Soviets. These aren't the communists. These are the heroes who overthrew them. Why are we picking a fight with them? He's said, and this is a crazy prediction, really ominous. The people who are expanding NATO will keep expanding it and expanding it, and then there will be a Russian reaction, and then when there is the Russian reaction, they are going to say, see, that's proof that we have to keep on expanding it."
CIA Director William Burns warned in a 2008 memo to Condoleezza Rice that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Moscow's "red lines" and could "split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene."
"The same dumb neocons that had this policy to remake the Middle East are the same ones that had this policy to expand NATO to Russia's border. And man, was this just the dumbest, most reckless policy ever. That's now put us in a position where we are closer to a risk of World War III and nuclear war than we have ever been in my life, and for what? To make sure the Donbas region is ruled by Kyiv rather than Moscow? Is that really worth it?"
Chomsky concurs:
Noam Chomsky explaining how US involvement in Ukraine and the expansion of NATO to Russia's border created the War in Ukraine..... pic.twitter.com/xkSKGAQIuJ
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
Ukraine fights back...
Russian official: Ukrainian drones strike Crimea oil depot
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-official-ukrainian-drones-strike-crimea-oil-depot/ar-AA1avA5D?li=BBnb7Kz
Russian official: Ukrainian drones strike Crimea oil depot
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-official-ukrainian-drones-strike-crimea-oil-depot/ar-AA1avA5D?li=BBnb7Kz
European sanctions on Russian oil are extremely effective. 🥴
— Wall Street Silver (@WallStreetSilv) April 29, 2023
Ht @Jkylebass pic.twitter.com/nEXBpggMwy
I have a few individuals that I like to follow that each have their own lens to view the conflict. I prefer when they engage in panel discussions because there is usually one or two other people that I had not heard from before, but will trust to attempt to provide an objective opinion given the fact they are on these panels with other people whose opinions I respect. It is also less sensationalism, and overreactive to whatever the most recent news is.Big C said:golden sloth said:movielover said:.@ComicDaveSmith shocks @JoeRogan with a powerful rant about NATO expansion, the 2014 Ukraine coup, and how American policies led to the War in Ukraine, bringing us closer to a potential nuclear World War III:
— KanekoaTheGreat (@KanekoaTheGreat) April 28, 2023
"It's not like it's just Ron Paul, Noam Chomsky, and Pat Buchanan… pic.twitter.com/nNxhdik9Ol
Yea, I'm not looking towards comedians for any sort of insights on geopolitics. That is like asking a 5 year old how to finance a house. It's pure stupidity.
Serious question: Who are some people to whom you are looking for insights on geopolitics?
Ian Bremmer - Discusses more of the diplomatic elements and the backroom negotiating between countries.
Peter Zeihan - Has more of a geographical determinist perspective. He believes this is still Russia's war to lose. and here is a presentation he did in January to the Ag community in Kansas City.
Alex Stubbs - Former Prime Minister of Finland turned Professor - He has actually interacted with most of the relevant parties and has actual diplomatic experience rather than others that stay in their offices, develop theories, and give lectures.
George Friedman - Not as active, but another geopolitical voice.
Michael Kofman - He is a military analyst and not a geopolitical strategist, but he has an objective and forthright opinion of how the war is going.
As for the news sources, Reuters is my go to, I don't believe any internet rumors until I see it here, but I like to branch out to Al-Jazeera and Wion to receive perspectives from non-western sources.
Of course, certain voices will say these are all stooges of the western military industrial complexes.
I get all my Putin's War information from this board but I only believe facts on the ground
The Russians didn't take a chance, they thought Ukraine would roll over. They thought Ukrainians liked Russia (they don't), and Russia didn't fail because NATO intervened (which, why would a country not be allowed to help another country who is being invaded?), Russia failed because they failed to keep Hostomel airport in tact, and failed to provide adequate logistics for their invasion force. Russia was not going to set up a Minsk III accord, that is a lie, Putin wanted to set up a puppet government or annex more territory.Cal88 said:golden sloth said:Cal88 said:
Good article on the state of industrial warfare in this conflict:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-04-28/ukraine-and-the-pentagon-are-using-ammo-far-faster-than-us-makes-it
...
At this point it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no military solution for Ukraine, and that they are likely to be in a much more difficult negotiation position down the line, not to mention the additional tens or even hundreds of thousands of additional casualties they are likely to sustain this year if this grind of a war keeps going. That is the reality that unfortunately analysts and insiders like the author of the article above are refusing to accept.
No. The reason the Russians are trying to make this a war of attrition is because they are too inept to pull off a western style war of maneuver. They attempted that in the first weeks of the war with their thunder run on Kyiv. Of course that failed miserably.
"Western-style wars of maneuver" only work when you if have near-complete air superiority, such as the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Ukraine started the war with nearly a thousand units of AA equipment, including several hundreds S-300 launchers.
The Russians took a chance early on by raiding Kiev with a small force, with the political goal of putting pressure on the Zelensky government to sign (and abide by) another Minsk-stle agreement. That plan only failed because NATO intervened, notably Boris Johnson, pushing Ukraine to keep fighting. The result is 450,000+ more Ukrainian casualties since then, and counting...
Ukraine is going to be forced to come to the table after its army is exhausted, they would have been better off on all levels had they signed a Minsk III last March instead of being pushed by NATO into a suicidal war of attrition against Russia.Quote:
They then tried to turn to the only way Russia has ever won a war, and throw waves of their sons and daughters at the the enemy and outlast them. While killing civilians for no real reason other than general bloodlust.
So the Russians are "killing civilians for no real reason", yet the ratio of civilians killed in this war is less than 10%. versus 80%-90% civilians killed in US-led wars like Afghanistan and Iraq?
The territories where Russia is currently fighting are regions where the majority of the local population is pro-Russian, but even in western Ukraine, the Russians have not targeted civilian population Dresden-style, they have targeted infrastructure assets like powerplants and warehouses. The worst cases of urban hits in western Ukraine were from Ukrainian stray AA missiles that have landed on apartment blocks, including the one U2Sucks pulled out at the top of this page:Ukrainian propaganda again goes with that Russians used Kaliber missiles to hit the residential sector.
— Mats Nilsson (@mazzenilsson) April 28, 2023
In fact #Nikolaev governor Vitaliy Kim admitted that it were again four S-300 that hit the residential sector.https://t.co/gqpG79Ib66
While some Russian TG sources say that… pic.twitter.com/XLrZdCLFPY
...Whereas Ukrainian forces have continuously shelled Donetsk, the largest city in the Donbass, since the mid-2010s, here is the latest installment (not covered anywhere in the MSM):Ukraine shelling civilians in Donetsk City.
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
Horrified passengers gasp and shriek in terror as their bus drives inches past the vehicle that was subject of Ukrainian shelling.
Killing 7 people, including children.
Why is the western mainstream media so silent about this?
🤔 pic.twitter.com/oc8GI04JGq
An attack on the power grid in the middle of winter is an attack on civilians. Murdering people in Bucha is genocide. Forcing 12 milliion ukrainians to displace is atrocious.
No, that one minute clip is not most accurate and legitimate analysis of the war.Cal88 said:golden sloth said:movielover said:
This Swamp creature makes my head hurt, especially after listening to the author of five books, Colonel McGregor.
The term is surge capacity. We (and NATO) had insufficient stock piles to provoke war with Russia, and zero surge capacity. Colonel McGregor says this has been known for decades. They produced no practical answer.
Except NATO did not provoke this war. Russia chose to have this war when they declared Ukrainians as not a real people and subsequently invaded. It's not NATO's fault Russia wants to genocide ukraine and steal their land.
This 1 minute capsule from Mearsheimer's 2015 presentation on the Ukraine conflict is still the most accurate and legitimate analysis of this war:The best advice to solve the Russia-Ukraine Conflict was given by John J. Mearsheimer in 2015 which nobody listened.
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
"The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked"
pic.twitter.com/JhGF1VZxqM
Russia doesn't want to steal Ukrainian lands or genocide them, they want a neutral state at their border, not a hostile state armed to the gills, same as the US (see Cuba '63, and the Monroe Doctrine) or China (Taiwan). Geopolitics 101.
The guy from the Rogan show that you've panned actually brought some solid points, including actual quotes from leading US policymakers, here is the complete text from that tweet above:
".@ComicDaveSmith shocks@JoeRogan
with a powerful rant about NATO expansion, the 2014 Ukraine coup, and how American policies led to the War in Ukraine, bringing us closer to a potential nuclear World War III:
"It's not like it's just Ron Paul, Noam Chomsky, and Pat Buchanan like the outsiders who were against NATO expansion. But the list of people within the government, within the natural security apparatus, who completely opposed NATO expansion is very impressive and long."
Robert McNamara (Sec. of Defense)
Robert Gates (Sec. of Defense)
William Perry (Sec. of Defense)
George Kennan (American diplomat)
William Burns (CIA Director)
"They all opposed NATO expansion in the strongest possible language and all explicitly because this will provoke a conflict with Russia. There's this great interview that George Kennan gave with Thomas Friedman from the New York Times in the 90s when they were doing the first round of NATO expansion, and he is furious... What are you guys doing? We won the Cold War. Now, you are picking a fight with Russia?
These aren't the Soviets. These aren't the communists. These are the heroes who overthrew them. Why are we picking a fight with them? He's said, and this is a crazy prediction, really ominous. The people who are expanding NATO will keep expanding it and expanding it, and then there will be a Russian reaction, and then when there is the Russian reaction, they are going to say, see, that's proof that we have to keep on expanding it."
CIA Director William Burns warned in a 2008 memo to Condoleezza Rice that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Moscow's "red lines" and could "split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene."
"The same dumb neocons that had this policy to remake the Middle East are the same ones that had this policy to expand NATO to Russia's border. And man, was this just the dumbest, most reckless policy ever. That's now put us in a position where we are closer to a risk of World War III and nuclear war than we have ever been in my life, and for what? To make sure the Donbas region is ruled by Kyiv rather than Moscow? Is that really worth it?"
Chomsky concurs:Noam Chomsky explaining how US involvement in Ukraine and the expansion of NATO to Russia's border created the War in Ukraine..... pic.twitter.com/xkSKGAQIuJ
— Richard (@ricwe123) April 28, 2023
The key point is that Russia does not get to impose the security policy of their choice on to Ukraine. Russia does not have that right. They are not special, they do not get to tell other countries what to do. Finlandization is a form of oppression as it prevented Finland from having total autonomy and self-control. Russia does not get to control other countries autonomy.
Alex Stubbs on Mearsheimer's argument.
golden sloth said:I have a few individuals that I like to follow that each have their own lens to view the conflict. I prefer when they engage in panel discussions because there is usually one or two other people that I had not heard from before, but will trust to attempt to provide an objective opinion given the fact they are on these panels with other people whose opinions I respect. It is also less sensationalism, and overreactive to whatever the most recent news is.Big C said:golden sloth said:movielover said:.@ComicDaveSmith shocks @JoeRogan with a powerful rant about NATO expansion, the 2014 Ukraine coup, and how American policies led to the War in Ukraine, bringing us closer to a potential nuclear World War III:
— KanekoaTheGreat (@KanekoaTheGreat) April 28, 2023
"It's not like it's just Ron Paul, Noam Chomsky, and Pat Buchanan… pic.twitter.com/nNxhdik9Ol
Yea, I'm not looking towards comedians for any sort of insights on geopolitics. That is like asking a 5 year old how to finance a house. It's pure stupidity.
Serious question: Who are some people to whom you are looking for insights on geopolitics?
Ian Bremmer - Discusses more of the diplomatic elements and the backroom negotiating between countries.
Peter Zeihan - Has more of a geographical determinist perspective. He believes this is still Russia's war to lose. and here is a presentation he did in January to the Ag community in Kansas City.
Alex Stubbs - Former Prime Minister of Finland turned Professor - He has actually interacted with most of the relevant parties and has actual diplomatic experience rather than others that stay in their offices, develop theories, and give lectures.
George Friedman - Not as active, but another geopolitical voice.
Michael Kofman - He is a military analyst and not a geopolitical strategist, but he has an objective and forthright opinion of how the war is going.
As for the news sources, Reuters is my go to, I don't believe any internet rumors until I see it here, but I like to branch out to Al-Jazeera and Wion to receive perspectives from non-western sources.
Of course, certain voices will say these are all stooges of the western military industrial complexes.
Thanks, I will check these out, if I get some time. Yes, if your sources all agree, you run the risk of somebody saying you have picked sources that reinforce your own opinions. Note that I am not saying that, as I have no idea. Could very well be that you chose them because they are the most credible.
golden sloth said:The Russians didn't take a chance, they thought Ukraine would roll over. They thought Ukrainians liked Russia (they don't), and Russia didn't fail because NATO intervened (which, why would a country not be allowed to help another country who is being invaded?), Russia failed because they failed to keep Hostomel airport in tact, and failed to provide adequate logistics for their invasion force. Russia was not going to set up a Minsk III accord, that is a lie, Putin wanted to set up a puppet government or annex more territory.Cal88 said:Quote:
They then tried to turn to the only way Russia has ever won a war, and throw waves of their sons and daughters at the the enemy and outlast them. While killing civilians for no real reason other than general bloodlust.
So the Russians are "killing civilians for no real reason", yet the ratio of civilians killed in this war is less than 10%. versus 80%-90% civilians killed in US-led wars like Afghanistan and Iraq?
The territories where Russia is currently fighting are regions where the majority of the local population is pro-Russian, but even in western Ukraine, the Russians have not targeted civilian population Dresden-style, they have targeted infrastructure assets like powerplants and warehouses. The worst cases of urban hits in western Ukraine were from Ukrainian stray AA missiles that have landed on apartment blocks, including the one U2Sucks pulled out at the top of this page:
...Whereas Ukrainian forces have continuously shelled Donetsk, the largest city in the Donbass, since the mid-2010s, here is the latest installment (not covered anywhere in the MSM):
Crimeans and Donbass Ukrainians do like Russia, because most of them are ethnically and culturally Russian. although they do have their own cultural identity as Russophone Donbass Ukrainians, the ties with Kiev have been severely strained due to that central government regarding them as 2nd class citizens. That is the reason the Donbass rebel armies have held out for 8 years against the Kiev govt army.
The concept of nationhood and national identities in an old continent like Europe and a very large, multiethnic country like Ukraine is foreign to most Americans. If you impose on a cultural minority a ban on the use of their native language, you are asking for a civil war. In the rest of Europe, this basic aspect is well understood and well managed in countries like Spain, Belgium, Switzerland etc.
Ukraine forfeited its legitimacy over the Donbass by going against these basic norms and waging a civil war on the locals.Ukrainian president Poroshenko is on record claiming in a speech that he will bomb the Donbass into submission, and that Donbass children will grow up hiding in bomb shelters. How do you think the locals feel about this??
Russia would have accepted a Minsk III type agreement last March, and would still accept a plan today along the Chinese peace proposal where they annex the Donbass and have a Korean-style stalemate/frozen borders with a neutral Ukraine. This is a peace plan that any sane realist would promote, knowing that the alternative is hundreds of thousands more deaths and further loss of territory for Ukraine. The longer this war of attrition goes, the weaker will Ukraine's position be.
Quote:
An attack on the power grid in the middle of winter is an attack on civilians. Murdering people in Bucha is genocide. Forcing 12 milliion ukrainians to displace is atrocious.
Ukraine has had a long history of ethnic cleansings, that reached its most savage climax in the 1930s-40s where OUN/UPA ultranationalists under Stepan Bandera slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles and ethnic Russians in western Ukraine.
This highly toxic local strain of nationalism has been kept alive by surviving, exiled Ukrainian nazis, sponsored by the CIA, who promoted it because it suits its Great Game geopolitical battle against Russia in a framework of Wolfowitz Doctrine unipolar hegemony.
Ukrainian nazi Yaroslav Stetsko, successor of Bandera, honored by GHW Bush
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/53242
https://mronline.org/2022/09/14/ukraine/
Life in Kiev, Lviv or Odessa is still relatively normal, private cars can fill up at the gas station and the supermarkets are well-stocked. The Russians could easily stop that, but they haven't targeted civilian infrastructure en masse, the main goal of hitting the power grid was to disrupt railway shipping of weapons, the reail grid being electric (standard across Europe). The other goal is to exhaust Ukrainain AA capacities.
The massacre in Bucha was done by Ukrainian militias, the Safari paramilitary squad to be specific, they've made an example of those locals who they deemed to be collaborators. A lor of the victims had white armbands, designating Russian-friendlies, and some had Russian military rations, which was proof enough of them being collaborators for the Safari militiamen, getting them a death sentence.
https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/oped/is-the-truth-about-bucha-too-inconvenient-to-be-discovered--3773388
I understand that you will completely reject this and there won't be any common ground to discuss the facts around Bucha, this being an emotionally charged event. However, any rational observer will have to acknowlefge at the very least that many stories about Russian atrocities turned out to be complete fabrications, like the alleged murder-rapes of Ukrainian children, stories that were actually concocted and propagated by high-level Ukrainian officials, stories that were so badly over the top that some of these officials had to resign:
https://babel.ua/en/news/80573-ue-investigation-former-ombudswoman-lyudmila-denisova-told-fictional-stories-about-rape-to-help-ukraine
Quote:
UE investigation: Former ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova told fictional stories about rape to "help Ukraine"
Date:11:38, 27 june 2022
Former Verkhovna Rada Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova, while in office, made up scary stories about the rape of children by the Russian occupiers.
This conclusion was reached by Ukrayinska Pravda during its own investigation, which was published on June 27. The publication told the non-public side of Denisovas release.
...During the interrogation, as Ukrainian Pravda found out, Denisova admitted to the police that she had heard stories from her daughter, and she told that she told them to her mother "over a cup of tea", and Denisova allegedly explained that she told terrible stories because she wanted to win for Ukraine.
Cal88 said:
The massacre in Bucha was done by Ukrainian militias,
I really didn't think you would go there, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. There is satellite footage of the bodies lying dead in the streets well before Ukraine took the city. There are eyewitness accounts of civilians who saw it happen. Your argument is ludicrous and disgusting.
No wonder all of Russia's neighbors are afraid of them and prefer the NATO / EU.
So you just admitted that Ukraine does not have a right to sovereignty or self-determination.Cal88 said:golden sloth said:The Russians didn't take a chance, they thought Ukraine would roll over. They thought Ukrainians liked Russia (they don't), and Russia didn't fail because NATO intervened (which, why would a country not be allowed to help another country who is being invaded?), Russia failed because they failed to keep Hostomel airport in tact, and failed to provide adequate logistics for their invasion force. Russia was not going to set up a Minsk III accord, that is a lie, Putin wanted to set up a puppet government or annex more territory.Cal88 said:Quote:
They then tried to turn to the only way Russia has ever won a war, and throw waves of their sons and daughters at the the enemy and outlast them. While killing civilians for no real reason other than general bloodlust.
So the Russians are "killing civilians for no real reason", yet the ratio of civilians killed in this war is less than 10%. versus 80%-90% civilians killed in US-led wars like Afghanistan and Iraq?
The territories where Russia is currently fighting are regions where the majority of the local population is pro-Russian, but even in western Ukraine, the Russians have not targeted civilian population Dresden-style, they have targeted infrastructure assets like powerplants and warehouses. The worst cases of urban hits in western Ukraine were from Ukrainian stray AA missiles that have landed on apartment blocks, including the one U2Sucks pulled out at the top of this page:
...Whereas Ukrainian forces have continuously shelled Donetsk, the largest city in the Donbass, since the mid-2010s, here is the latest installment (not covered anywhere in the MSM):
Crimeans and Donbass Ukrainians do like Russia, because most of them are ethnically and culturally Russian. although they do have their own cultural identity as Russophone Donbass Ukrainians, the ties with Kiev have been severely strained due to that central government regarding them as 2nd class citizens. That is the reason the Donbass rebel armies have held out for 8 years against the Kiev govt army.
The concept of nationhood and national identities in an old continent like Europe and a very large, multiethnic country like Ukraine is foreign to most Americans. If you impose on a cultural minority a ban on the use of their native language, you are asking for a civil war. In the rest of Europe, this basic aspect is well understood and well managed in countries like Spain, Belgium, Switzerland etc.
Ukraine forfeited its legitimacy over the Donbass by going against these basic norms and waging a civil war on the locals.Ukrainian president Poroshenko is on record claiming in a speech that he will bomb the Donbass into submission, and that Donbass children will grow up hiding in bomb shelters. How do you think the locals feel about this??
Russia would have accepted a Minsk III type agreement last March, and would still accept a plan today along the Chinese peace proposal where they annex the Donbass and have a Korean-style stalemate/frozen borders with a neutral Ukraine. This is a peace plan that any sane realist would promote, knowing that the alternative is hundreds of thousands more deaths and further loss of territory for Ukraine. The longer this war of attrition goes, the weaker will Ukraine's position be.Quote:
An attack on the power grid in the middle of winter is an attack on civilians. Murdering people in Bucha is genocide. Forcing 12 milliion ukrainians to displace is atrocious.
Ukraine has had a long history of ethnic cleansings, that reached its most savage climax in the 1930s-40s where OUN/UPA ultranationalists under Stepan Bandera slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles and ethnic Russians in western Ukraine.
This highly toxic local strain of nationalism has been kept alive by surviving, exiled Ukrainian nazis, sponsored by the CIA, who promoted it because it suits its Great Game geopolitical battle against Russia in a framework of Wolfowitz Doctrine unipolar hegemony.
Ukrainian nazi Yaroslav Stetsko, successor of Bandera, honored by GHW Bush
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/53242
https://mronline.org/2022/09/14/ukraine/
Life in Kiev, Lviv or Odessa is still relatively normal, private cars can fill up at the gas station and the supermarkets are well-stocked. The Russians could easily stop that, but they haven't targeted civilian infrastructure en masse, the main goal of hitting the power grid was to disrupt railway shipping of weapons, the reail grid being electric (standard across Europe). The other goal is to exhaust Ukrainain AA capacities.
The massacre in Bucha was done by Ukrainian militias, the Safari paramilitary squad to be specific, they've made an example of those locals who they deemed to be collaborators. A lor of the victims had white armbands, designating Russian-friendlies, and some had Russian military rations, which was proof enough of them being collaborators for the Safari militiamen, getting them a death sentence.
https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/oped/is-the-truth-about-bucha-too-inconvenient-to-be-discovered--3773388
I understand that you will completely reject this and there won't be any common ground to discuss the facts around Bucha, this being an emotionally charged event. However, any rational observer will have to acknowlefge at the very least that many stories about Russian atrocities turned out to be complete fabrications, like the alleged murder-rapes of Ukrainian children, stories that were actually concocted and propagated by high-level Ukrainian officials, stories that were so badly over the top that some of these officials had to resign:
https://babel.ua/en/news/80573-ue-investigation-former-ombudswoman-lyudmila-denisova-told-fictional-stories-about-rape-to-help-ukraineQuote:
UE investigation: Former ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova told fictional stories about rape to "help Ukraine"
Date:11:38, 27 june 2022
Former Verkhovna Rada Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova, while in office, made up scary stories about the rape of children by the Russian occupiers.
This conclusion was reached by Ukrayinska Pravda during its own investigation, which was published on June 27. The publication told the non-public side of Denisovas release.
...During the interrogation, as Ukrainian Pravda found out, Denisova admitted to the police that she had heard stories from her daughter, and she told that she told them to her mother "over a cup of tea", and Denisova allegedly explained that she told terrible stories because she wanted to win for Ukraine.
And no, rational observers believe Russia has committed war crimes, it is just Russian zealots like yourself that choose to ignore the obvious.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areasQuote:
"The cases we documented amount to unspeakable, deliberate cruelty and violence against Ukrainian civilians," said Hugh Williamson, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. "Rape, murder, and other violent acts against people in the Russian forces' custody should be investigated as war crimes."
Human Rights Watch interviewed 10 people, including witnesses, victims, and local residents of Russia-occupied territories, in person or by telephone. Some people asked to be identified only by their first names or by pseudonyms for their protection.
On March 4, Russian forces in Bucha, about 30 kilometers northwest of Kyiv, rounded up five men and summarily executed one of them. A witness told Human Rights Watch that soldiers forced the five men to kneel on the side of the road, pulled their T-shirts over their heads, and shot one of the men in the back of the head. "He fell [over]," the witness said, "and the women [present at the scene] screamed."
Of course, I fully expect you to dismiss this because you have no integrity or credibility.
sycasey said:Cal88 said:
The massacre in Bucha was done by Ukrainian militias,
I really didn't think you would go there, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. There is satellite footage of the bodies lying dead in the streets well before Ukraine took the city. There are eyewitness accounts of civilians who saw it happen. Your argument is ludicrous and disgusting.
Spare me the indignation, and try to lead an adult conversation, if you can.
The Russians left Bucha on March 30.
The Ukrainian "Safari" paramilitary unit was "clearing up Bucha of saboteurs and Russian accomplices" as early as April 1st,
https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html
The article above, written by a Ukrainian journalist, published on April 2nd, about Bucha, doesn't even mention the Bucha massacre.
Neither did the mayor of Bucha mention anything about the Bucha massacre, while celebrating the liberation of his town in a video filmed in the city center on March 31st, a day after the Russians had left Bucha, see the 2:30 mark in the video here:
https://www.investigaction.net/es/mentira-mediatica-del-dia-bucha-que-sucedio-realmente/
The Bucha massacre was revealed to the public on April 3rd, four days after the Russians have left that town.
Forensic evidence revealed that many of the dead bodies displayed on April 3rd showed definite signs of having been freshly killed in the last 24hrs/48hrs.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:Cal88 said:
The massacre in Bucha was done by Ukrainian militias,
I really didn't think you would go there, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. There is satellite footage of the bodies lying dead in the streets well before Ukraine took the city. There are eyewitness accounts of civilians who saw it happen. Your argument is ludicrous and disgusting.
Spare me the indignation, and try to lead an adult conversation, if you can.
An adult conversation would involve you addressing the obvious evidence that suggests the Russian military did it, not just zooming right past to more obfuscation. Once again: satellite footage shows the bodies were dead in the streets when Russia still controlled the city. How do you explain that?
There are multiple eyewitness accounts from citizens in Bucha confirming that the Russians were executing people. Are they all lying?
This isn't hard to find. All you have to do is look up "Bucha Massacre" on freakin' Wikipedia. The links are all there.
What do you get out of this? Why make excuses for war crimes? I suspect that if the US military got caught doing anything like this you would not be so forgiving.
4 days passed between the time the Russian troops left Bucha and the revealing of the massacre.
The mayor of Bucha had a celebratory video from the Bucha city hall one day after the Russians left, Were there dozens or even hundreds of bodies strewn across the streets around that city when he recorded that video, and if so, why did he not mention anything about this, which would have been the most important and traumatic event in his life?
Reports on the ground on April 2nd of Ukrainian paramilitary internal police militias (the aptly named Safari militia, along with an Azov militia squad), "cleaning up" the town from "Russian saboteurs and collaborators" - with no mention of massacres or hundreds of dead bodies lying on the streets.
How do you think these militias would approach locals suspected of having fraternized with the enemy?
The basic timeline doesn't jibe at all with the narrative. Wikipedia can't address this.
The mayor of Bucha had a celebratory video from the Bucha city hall one day after the Russians left, Were there dozens or even hundreds of bodies strewn across the streets around that city when he recorded that video, and if so, why did he not mention anything about this, which would have been the most important and traumatic event in his life?
Reports on the ground on April 2nd of Ukrainian paramilitary internal police militias (the aptly named Safari militia, along with an Azov militia squad), "cleaning up" the town from "Russian saboteurs and collaborators" - with no mention of massacres or hundreds of dead bodies lying on the streets.
How do you think these militias would approach locals suspected of having fraternized with the enemy?
The basic timeline doesn't jibe at all with the narrative. Wikipedia can't address this.
Cal88 said:
4 days passed between the time the Russian troops left Bucha and the revealing of the massacre.
The mayor of Bucha had a celebratory video from the Bucha city hall one day after the Russians left, Were there dozens or even hundreds of bodies strewn across the streets around that city when he recorded that video, and if so, why did he not mention anything about this, which would have been the most important and traumatic event in his life?
Reports on the ground on April 2nd of Ukrainian paramilitary internal police militias (the aptly named Safari militia, along with an Azov militia squad), "cleaning up" the town from "Russian saboteurs and collaborators" - with no mention of massacres or hundreds of dead bodies. How do you think these militias would approach locals suspected of having fraternized with the enemy?
The basic timeline doesn't jibe at all with the narrative. Wikipedia can't address this.
I cannot fathom how anyone could think the above speculation trumps photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts. Come on out of the rabbit hole.
The overwhelmingly likely truth is that the Russian military did the massacre in Bucha.
I saw some video to suggest the Russians were shooting civies in Bucha though. I saw a russian BMP mow down an unarmed guy on a bike. Lets not act like the Russian army isn't completely capable of horrible sh*tCal88 said:
4 days passed between the time the Russian troops left Bucha and the revealing of the massacre.
The mayor of Bucha had a celebratory video from the Bucha city hall one day after the Russians left, Were there dozens or even hundreds of bodies strewn across the streets around that city when he recorded that video, and if so, why did he not mention anything about this, which would have been the most important and traumatic event in his life?
Reports on the ground on April 2nd of Ukrainian paramilitary internal police militias (the aptly named Safari militia, along with an Azov militia squad), "cleaning up" the town from "Russian saboteurs and collaborators" - with no mention of massacres or hundreds of dead bodies. How do you think these militias would approach locals suspected of having fraternized with the enemy?
The basic timeline doesn't jibe at all with the narrative. Wikipedia can't address this.
golden sloth said:So you just admitted that Ukraine does not have a right to sovereignty or self-determination.Cal88 said:
I understand that you will completely reject this and there won't be any common ground to discuss the facts around Bucha, this being an emotionally charged event. However, any rational observer will have to acknowlefge at the very least that many stories about Russian atrocities turned out to be complete fabrications, like the alleged murder-rapes of Ukrainian children, stories that were actually concocted and propagated by high-level Ukrainian officials, stories that were so badly over the top that some of these officials had to resign:
https://babel.ua/en/news/80573-ue-investigation-former-ombudswoman-lyudmila-denisova-told-fictional-stories-about-rape-to-help-ukraineQuote:
UE investigation: Former ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova told fictional stories about rape to "help Ukraine"
Date:11:38, 27 june 2022
Former Verkhovna Rada Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova, while in office, made up scary stories about the rape of children by the Russian occupiers.
This conclusion was reached by Ukrayinska Pravda during its own investigation, which was published on June 27. The publication told the non-public side of Denisovas release.
...During the interrogation, as Ukrainian Pravda found out, Denisova admitted to the police that she had heard stories from her daughter, and she told that she told them to her mother "over a cup of tea", and Denisova allegedly explained that she told terrible stories because she wanted to win for Ukraine.
Ukraine's central government does not have the right to bomb and subjugate its minorities. They've been bombing the Donbass for 7 years straight before the Russians invaded. In fact they're still shelling downtown Donetsk to this day, they hit a schoolbus killing many children only this weekend, wasting their HIMARS and precious ammo on civilian targets.
The Kiev government does lose its legitimacy over these regions when it behaves as a violent colonizer against these minorities, period.
Ukrainian president Poroshenko: "our children will go to school, while Donbass children will cower in their basements, and that's how we're going to win this war".
Quote:
And no, rational observers believe Russia has committed war crimes, it is just Russian zealots like yourself that choose to ignore the obvious.https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areasQuote:
.
Of course, I fully expect you to dismiss this because you have no integrity or credibility.
I've provided proof of high-level Ukrainian human rights officials blatantly fabricating stories about Russian atrocities:
Shades of stories of Gaddafi's troops taking viagra to rape civilians in Libya.
Why would a Ukrainian high official like Denisova have to make up stories about Russian rapes, if these events did occur with high frequency?
Why bother pretending like you're talking to a reasonable person who is here to engage in good faith?sycasey said:
I cannot fathom how anyone could think the above speculation trumps photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts. Come on out of the rabbit hole.
He's literally never criticized Putin or Russia in any of his thousands of posts on Russia-related matters over his history on BI. His posts are entirely advocacy and not intended to be factual or unbiased. Before I blocked him on the ukraine war thread, his schtick seemed mostly to call anyone criticizing Russia a "Russiaphone" while simultaneously calling Ukraine a nazi-haven and spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories about Zelensky. He will ignore any mention of wrongdoing by Russia, that is unless he can find some Russian propaganda to sling in order to pretend the wrongdoing is really the dastardly Ukrainians' doing.
If you are looking for objectivity or any signal as to what is happening over there, don't waste your time with him, you will never get it.
Sometimes there is still value in demonstrating to everyone else just how bad your opposition's position is.Unit2Sucks said:Why bother pretending like your talking to a reasonable person who is here to engage in good faith?sycasey said:
I cannot fathom how anyone could think the above speculation trumps photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts. Come on out of the rabbit hole.
He's literally never criticized Putin or Russia in any of his thousands of posts on Russia-related matters over his history on BI. His posts are entirely advocacy and not intended to be factual or unbiased. Before I blocked him on the ukraine war thread, his schtick seemed mostly to call anyone criticizing Russia a "Russiaphone" while simultaneously calling Ukraine a nazi-haven and spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories about Zelensky. He will ignore any mention of wrongdoing by Russia, that is unless he can find some Russian propaganda to sling in order to pretend the wrongdoing is really the dastardly Ukrainians' doing.
If you are looking for objectivity or any signal as to what is happening over there, don't waste your time with him, you will never get it.
Unit2Sucks said:Why bother pretending like your talking to a reasonable person who is here to engage in good faith?sycasey said:
I cannot fathom how anyone could think the above speculation trumps photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts. Come on out of the rabbit hole.
He's literally never criticized Putin or Russia in any of his thousands of posts on Russia-related matters over his history on BI. His posts are entirely advocacy and not intended to be factual or unbiased. Before I blocked him on the ukraine war thread, his schtick seemed mostly to call anyone criticizing Russia a "Russiaphone" while simultaneously calling Ukraine a nazi-haven and spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories about Zelensky. He will ignore any mention of wrongdoing by Russia, that is unless he can find some Russian propaganda to sling in order to pretend the wrongdoing is really the dastardly Ukrainians' doing.
If you are looking for objectivity or any signal as to what is happening over there, don't waste your time with him, you will never get it.
Ukraine does have a nazi problem, This is undeniable. Nazi leader Stepan Bandera is formally honored as a founding father, and dozens of his formal Waffen SS minions have been recently formally honored with plaques, statues and street names, in official ceremonies. This is undeniable. These war criminals have been formally enshrined into modern Ukrainian culture. You're the one here who isn't engaging in good faith.on this and other subjects, like Zelensky's level of corruption.
Your signals of what is happening over there included incredibly stupid (and false) statements like Chechnian leader Kadyrov fleeing to Dubai after having been poisoned by Putin. This was all made up, low-grade wartime propaganda that you've relayed here, which you still haven't acknowledged.
MinotStateBeav said:I saw some video to suggest the Russians were shooting civies in Bucha though. I saw a russian BMP mow down an unarmed guy on a bike. Lets not act like the Russian army isn't completely capable of horrible sh*tCal88 said:
4 days passed between the time the Russian troops left Bucha and the revealing of the massacre.
The mayor of Bucha had a celebratory video from the Bucha city hall one day after the Russians left, Were there dozens or even hundreds of bodies strewn across the streets around that city when he recorded that video, and if so, why did he not mention anything about this, which would have been the most important and traumatic event in his life?
Reports on the ground on April 2nd of Ukrainian paramilitary internal police militias (the aptly named Safari militia, along with an Azov militia squad), "cleaning up" the town from "Russian saboteurs and collaborators" - with no mention of massacres or hundreds of dead bodies. How do you think these militias would approach locals suspected of having fraternized with the enemy?
The basic timeline doesn't jibe at all with the narrative. Wikipedia can't address this.
Agree about the cyclist shot in Bucha, also many Wagnerites aren't exactly choir boys, but I haven't seen any large-scale atrocities committed by Russian soldiers, deliberate bombings of civilians as a policy, the way ukraine has carried on shelling Donetsk, or large-scale exactions on civilians as depicted in the mainstream narrative of Bucha, or in previous events like the Mariupol theater bombing.
Independent western reporters stationed in the Donbass like Christelle Ne'ant, Patrick Lancaster, Andrea Rochelli or Alina Lipp from France, UK, Italy and Germany have done a good job documenting the real situation in that region, putting their lives and livelihoods on the line. Rochelli was killed and marked as "liquidated" in the Ukrainian kill list, Lipp persecuted by her country's authorities, They have covered a lot of atrocities in the Donbass and southern Ukraine front, none of their work has been relayed by western MSM.
golden sloth said:
No wonder all of Russia's neighbors are afraid of them and prefer the NATO / EU.
America's vassal states prefer American money, weaponry, military protection, subsidies, and IMF help - to name a few. They have to pinch somewhere to afford generous social payments and kooky energy strategies.
movielover said:golden sloth said:
No wonder all of Russia's neighbors are afraid of them and prefer the NATO / EU.
America's vassal states prefer American money, weaponry, military protection, subsidies, and IMF help - to name a few. They have to pinch somewhere to afford generous social payments and kooky energy strategies.
That's a strange take away. I like how the dichotomy is you are either an American vassal or get absorbed by a more powerful neighbor with malicious intent. As if there is nothing in between.
Kind of says a lot about these guys that this is how they see the world.golden sloth said:movielover said:golden sloth said:
No wonder all of Russia's neighbors are afraid of them and prefer the NATO / EU.
America's vassal states prefer American money, weaponry, military protection, subsidies, and IMF help - to name a few. They have to pinch somewhere to afford generous social payments and kooky energy strategies.
That's a strange take away. I like how the dichotomy is you are either an American vassal or get absorbed by a more powerful neighbor with malicious intent. As if there is nothing in between.
Larry Johnson on the Judge Napolitano program.
- heading for a catastrophe for the US & NATO
- military leaders protecting their futures by lying
- Sr. Generals politically attuned to serve the (political) interests of the White House
- Army General Chris Cavoli, commander of the US European Command, recently testified before the House and, in subtle remarks, diverted from the company line: "much of the Russian military has not been affected by Ukraine."
- ^^^ read between the lines ^^^
- military leaders & War Party (Ds & Rs) are lying to us
- there are no alternate media voices
- the recent Leak reveals we've spent $100 billion to witness a devastating defeat of Ukraine, and we've achieved nothing
- $100B is what we spent in 20 years in Afghanistan
- Saudia Arabia just recognized Hezbollah, a slap in the face to President Biden
- Tucker Carlson, the top anti-war voice, silenced
- the Leak may be a senior leader trying to prepare us for a coming collapse of the narrative / pullout?
https://www.youtube.com/live/hEs-abCcGhc?feature=share
- heading for a catastrophe for the US & NATO
- military leaders protecting their futures by lying
- Sr. Generals politically attuned to serve the (political) interests of the White House
- Army General Chris Cavoli, commander of the US European Command, recently testified before the House and, in subtle remarks, diverted from the company line: "much of the Russian military has not been affected by Ukraine."
- ^^^ read between the lines ^^^
- military leaders & War Party (Ds & Rs) are lying to us
- there are no alternate media voices
- the recent Leak reveals we've spent $100 billion to witness a devastating defeat of Ukraine, and we've achieved nothing
- $100B is what we spent in 20 years in Afghanistan
- Saudia Arabia just recognized Hezbollah, a slap in the face to President Biden
- Tucker Carlson, the top anti-war voice, silenced
- the Leak may be a senior leader trying to prepare us for a coming collapse of the narrative / pullout?
https://www.youtube.com/live/hEs-abCcGhc?feature=share
It's a good thing Ukraine hasn't been telegraphing their plans for months. /s Ammo storage hit?
footage of yesterday's most powerful explosion in Pavlograd was filmed by a surveillance camera pic.twitter.com/qMfVmpAnES
— Spriter (@Spriter99880) May 1, 2023
Once again, your facts don't pass the sniff test. Are you seriously claiming the US only spent 5 million dollars a year in Afghanistan?movielover said:
Larry Johnson on the Judge Napolitano program.
- heading for a catastrophe for the US & NATO
- military leaders protecting their futures by lying
- Sr. Generals politically attuned to serve the (political) interests of the White House
- Army General Chris Cavoli, commander of the US European Command, recently testified before the House and, in subtle remarks, diverted from the company line: "much of the Russian military has not been affected by Ukraine."
- ^^^ read between the lines ^^^
- military leaders & War Party (Ds & Rs) are lying to us
- there are no alternate media voices
- the recent Leak reveals we've spent $100 million to witness a devastating defeat of Ukraine, and we've achieved nothing
- $100M is what we spent in 20 years in Afghanistan
- Saudia Arabia just recognized Hezbollah, a slap in the face to President Biden
- Tucker Carlson, the top anti-war voice, silenced
- the Leak may be a senior leader trying to prepare us for a coming collapse of the narrative / pullout?
https://www.youtube.com/live/hEs-abCcGhc?feature=share
It's $100 Billion per year, over 20 years, $2 trillion total spent in Afghanistan. It was a good gig while it lasted, plenty of people got very rich, while hundreds of thousands died.
The $100 Billion/year bonanza has been transfered from one part of the Grand Chessboard to the other.
Here is the statement by General Cavoli, Commander, United States European Command and Supreme Allied Commander, Europe Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (this was brought to you by my CTRL, C, and V keys) confirming ML's point above, about Russian military having sustained low losses in this war:
"Much of the Russian military has not been affected negatively by this conflict".
On the other hand, top Ukrainian general Sergey Melnik, brigadier general of the Kharkov division, stated that Ukraine has run out of experienced soldiers. This implies that they've gone through the ~400,000 soldiers they have started the war with 14 months ago...
The $100 Billion/year bonanza has been transfered from one part of the Grand Chessboard to the other.
Here is the statement by General Cavoli, Commander, United States European Command and Supreme Allied Commander, Europe Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (this was brought to you by my CTRL, C, and V keys) confirming ML's point above, about Russian military having sustained low losses in this war:
Christopher G. Cavoli on the degradation of Russian forces in reference to the Ukraine conflict. pic.twitter.com/vIMsn2vPL5
— ayden (@squatsons) May 1, 2023
"Much of the Russian military has not been affected negatively by this conflict".
On the other hand, top Ukrainian general Sergey Melnik, brigadier general of the Kharkov division, stated that Ukraine has run out of experienced soldiers. This implies that they've gone through the ~400,000 soldiers they have started the war with 14 months ago...
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-04-24/ukrainian-general-sergei-melnik-only-the-russians-can-change-russia-thats-when-the-war-ends.htmlQuote:
Melnik admits that Ukraine needs more troops, but not only men, also ammunition for artillery and tanks. But soldiers on the front lines need more frequent rotations in the face of an enemy that has more resources: "The problem is that we will never have enough people and equipment. Because those who are professional soldiers, hardened in patriotism, are already exhausted, injured or recovering. Or they have died. That's why we invite people with no military experience and train them."
Typo = $100B, not $100M.
Cal88 said:
It's $100 Billion per year, over 20 years, $2 trillion total spent in Afghanistan. It was a good gig while it lasted, plenty of people got very rich, while hundreds of thousands died.
The $100 Billion/year bonanza has been transfered from one part of the Grand Chessboard to the other.
I believe we have a miscommunication here.
$5 Billion a year in Afghanistan x 20 years = $100
Billion. i.e., AKA one year in Ukraine.
movielover said:
It's a good thing Ukraine hasn't been telegraphing their plans for months. /s Ammo storage hit?footage of yesterday's most powerful explosion in Pavlograd was filmed by a surveillance camera pic.twitter.com/qMfVmpAnES
— Spriter (@Spriter99880) May 1, 2023
I was listening to MacGregor's latest interview on my way home tonight, he said it was a 200 ton ammo depot that blew up there. That would be the equivalent of 5,000 155mm shells, a huge blow, both figuratively and literally. The shockwave travelled a pretty long way to that station from the depot, indicating how intense that explosion was...
Here is the interview (never mind the overdramatic cover picture on there, it's about the most penetrating analysis you can find anywhere on the current military situation in Ukraine ):
I wonder if it ever troubles Putin88 that for all his "intellectualism" the only person who universally agrees and echoes his positions is perhaps the least intelligent and most irrational poster on the board. Either they are one and the same, or he's got to wonder why the better informed and brighter members of the community have serious problems with his sources, methodology, bias, and opinions.
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