The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

946,363 Views | 10324 Replies | Last: 2 hrs ago by bearister
Unit2Sucks
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Russia continues to prove how its Potemkin Village military is vulnerable, which is why its attempt to erase Ukraine from the map and history books has been such an embarrassing debacle for Putin and the Kremlin. The propaganda propagated by useful idiots can only go so far to mask the failure.

We're now 15 months into the war and Russia is further from winning then it was in the first 3 days - when Putin was dumb enough to think they could take Kiev.

Russia's electronic warfare is proving more capable of defeating Russian drones than Ukrainian ones.



Russia's military may seem large, but much of it is deployed across the country. In addition to fighting the war, the military has to serve as a national police force to keep the population in check and to secure their borders. In case anyone thought the Belgorod raid was just a stroke of luck, see below. It's just evidence of complete incompetence and under resourcing. It's why Russia can never win this war.



More evidence that some Russians are able to see past the propaganda that the shills continue to fall for.



Eastern Oregon Bear
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BearHunter said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:


So you're suggesting that the US should be just the Atlantic coast east of the Appalachians and the rest of the country belongs to the Native Americans?
Now you know. It's time to act and move out of Eastern Oregon and ask the French permission to move to Canada.
I guess no one heard me say "After you, Minot." Besides, I'm on good terms with the local tribes. One of them treated me to a salmon lunch a couple of months back after a meeting. Tribe is their chosen term, by the way, not mine.
movielover
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DiabloWags said:

Cal88 said:

DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:


That won't stop the useful idiots and shills from continuing to spread the Kremlin's false gospel of course.
Unfortunately true.

It's terribly sad (in my opinion) that the owner of Bearinsider doesnt appear to have a problem with Russian propaganda being spewed on his platform 24/7.

Quite frankly, I think it's embarrassing.


It is the proponents of censorship and redbaiters that should be embarrassed here, clearly.

Admittedly, you've never even been to Russia.
Yet you're the "expert" in all things Russian.



More germaine. There is allegedly proof that Hunter Biden displayed his [large] narcissism to Russian hookers; but I've seen no proof he went to Ukraine, or did any actual work for them.
movielover
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

DiabloWags said:

Putin said an old map proves Ukraine isnt a real country.
Never mind, that the document in fact shows the area near Kyiv labeled as "Ukraine"



A composite image show Russian President Vladimir Putin (right) examining a 17th-century map of eastern Europe with Valery Zorkin, a Russian justice official. The inset shows a part of the document labeled "Ukraine".Kremlin/Bibliothque Nationale de France

Putin claimed a 400-year-old map proved Ukraine isn't a real country, not noticing it has 'Ukraine' written on it (yahoo.com)


400-year old map of North America...



So you're suggesting that the US should be just the Atlantic coast east of the Appalachians and the rest of the country belongs to the Native Americans?

Just putting things in perspective, when it comes to colonialism and 400 year old maps.
Missing the point (probably deliberately). Putin's argument about Ukraine is historical, that it has no historical basis as its own entity. The historical maps disprove that.

No one in the USA is trying to argue that it is a sovereign nation because of how things were 400 years ago, so there's no point in showing this map.

That map showed a small local enclave of "Ukraine - land of the cossacks" wedged between Volhynie and Podolie, two southeastern provinces of the Polish-Lithuanian empire at its greatest extent in the early/mid 17th century. It wasn't quite Texas-sized 1991 Ukraine. I believe that region was then conquered by Russia later that century, as well as the northern shores of the Black Sea and Crimea, which were then mostly inhabited by Tatars.

The area was subsequently colonized by Russians, who founded most of the cities in the area including Odessa, Melitopol, Mariupol etc., and dubbed Novorossyia (New Russia) and incorporated into the Russian Empire in 1764.



That enclave labelled as Ukraine on that 17th century map was the western edge of the Cossack populations, their range extended several thousand kms eastwards from there across the Cuacasus all the way to the Urals. Most Cossacks spoke Russian, including the Don Cossacks, who inhabited the Donbass.
Arguing about maps is really besides the point

The only relevant question is this: does Ukraine have right to exist as an independent sovereign entity, completely separate from Russia? Yes or No.



Yes.

The related question: if Russia trained and armed 400,000 troops and stationed them in Ensenada, Nogales, and Juarez, would we sit by and do nothing?

Today, maybe not. President Biden is allowing China and Mexico to flood our nation with fentanyl and illegal immigrants, including cartel members.
movielover
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Cal88:



BearHunter
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Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

Russia continues to prove how its Potemkin Village military is vulnerable, which is why its attempt to erase Ukraine from the map and history books has been such an embarrassing debacle for Putin and the Kremlin. The propaganda propagated by useful idiots can only go so far to mask the failure.

We're now 15 months into the war and Russia is further from winning then it was in the first 3 days - when Putin was dumb enough to think they could take Kiev.


Russia's military may seem large, but much of it is deployed across the country. In addition to fighting the war, the military has to serve as a national police force to keep the population in check and to secure their borders. In case anyone thought the Belgorod raid was just a stroke of luck, see below. It's just evidence of complete incompetence and under resourcing. It's why Russia can never win this war.



Ukraine started the war with this population pyramid, and a population of around 40 million:



One of the main characteristics of their population, before the war even started, was that they had an extreme dearth of young military-aged men, both because young people have been leaving the country for better opportunities in Poland or Russia, and because the 90s were a particularly harsh period economically and socially, with few families being formed and a collapse in fertility rates, with the fertility rate in Ukraine dropping to 1.0 in 2000. So the social collapse observed in the mid-90s to 00s now translates to a huge demographic hole in young men and women.

And that was before the war even started, since then, after losing 20% of its territory and having had about 13 million more people leave the country, Ukraine's population is down from 40M in 2021 to around 15M-18M today. Most of the people who have left tended to be young people, or families with kids. That is why you see a lot of older men among the ranks of their military.

Bottom line, Ukraine's human resources are close to being tapped out. The men who are/were ideologically driven to fight have already served and retired or died, with close to half a million Ukrainian military casualties. Contrary to what U2S affirms, it is the Ukrainians who actually have been holding back a significant number of troops as internal and military police to keep a lid on dissent and potential unrest, especially in cities like Odessa, Kharkov or Dnipro which are majority Russophone. As well they have to spread some of these ideologically committed troops among their ranks to insure compliance by unmotivated conscripts, lest those kinds of events become more common:

Cal88
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"During his work with the Ukrainian soldiers he pointed out in that they trained in Germany repeatedly bragged and showed videos of brutal tortures and executions of Russian prisoners of war, confirming Ukrainian involvement in war crimes.

Although dozens of German officers saw these videos, they were ordered not to disclose what they saw in oder to avoid ruining Ukraine's "reputation".

Many German officers do not want to lose their official posts they do not make the facts of the Ukrainian war crimes public.

Ukrainian soldiers according to the report have showed great interest in the archives of the Nazi SS torture programs & repeatedly asked their German trainees to be familiarized with the archives of the "special methods" used against the Soviet captives during the WW2.

Apparently Marlow is one of the few generals in the west who will not step over his honor and will not accept the policy of concealing war crimes even if it will cost him his position or rank.

He is convinced that the torture facts must be investigated, and the officers should be allowed to speak up on what they saw during their work with the Ukrainians..

Even though Marlow submitted a formal application to Duscha Gmel - the federal prosecutor at the Federal Court of Justice, and a copy to the German Ministry of Defense back in February of 2023, he still did not receive any official response from the authorities.

golden sloth
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BearHunter said:



Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."


So why did ethnic Russians just raid Belgorod (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe because ethnic Russians can see through Putin's lies and want no part of them.
golden sloth
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Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Russia continues to prove how its Potemkin Village military is vulnerable, which is why its attempt to erase Ukraine from the map and history books has been such an embarrassing debacle for Putin and the Kremlin. The propaganda propagated by useful idiots can only go so far to mask the failure.

We're now 15 months into the war and Russia is further from winning then it was in the first 3 days - when Putin was dumb enough to think they could take Kiev.


Russia's military may seem large, but much of it is deployed across the country. In addition to fighting the war, the military has to serve as a national police force to keep the population in check and to secure their borders. In case anyone thought the Belgorod raid was just a stroke of luck, see below. It's just evidence of complete incompetence and under resourcing. It's why Russia can never win this war.



Ukraine started the war with this population pyramid, and a population of around 40 million:



One of the main characteristics of their population, before the war even started, was that they had an extreme dearth of young military-aged men, both because young people have been leaving the country for better opportunities in Poland or Russia, and because the 90s were a particularly harsh period economically and socially, with few families being formed and a collapse in fertility rates, with the fertility rate in Ukraine dropping to 1.0 in 2000. So the social collapse observed in the mid-90s to 00s now translates to a huge demographic hole in young men and women.

And that was before the war even started, since then, after losing 20% of its territory and having had about 13 million more people leave the country, Ukraine's population is down from 40M in 2021 to around 15M-18M today. Most of the people who have left tended to be young people, or families with kids. That is why you see a lot of older men among the ranks of their military.

Bottom line, Ukraine's human resources are close to being tapped out. The men who are/were ideologically driven to fight have already served and retired or died, with close to half a million Ukrainian military casualties. Contrary to what U2S affirms, it is the Ukrainians who actually have been holding back a significant number of troops as internal and military police to keep a lid on dissent and potential unrest, especially in cities like Odessa, Kharkov or Dnipro which are majority Russophone. As well they have to spread some of these ideologically committed troops among their ranks to insure compliance by unmotivated conscripts, lest those kinds of events become more common:




More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.
movielover
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But... but... I thought madman Putin wanted to conquer Poland... then all of Europe?
Cal88
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golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."


So why did ethnic Russians just raid Belgorod (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe because ethnic Russians can see through Putin's lies and want no part of them.

The group that was part of the Belgorad raid using US/NATO equipment with support from the Ukrainian army was made up of Russian far right militias, part of a small fringe neo-nazi group, headed by Denis Nikitin who goes by the call name "White Rex". This group has been banned from Russia,.and its leader Nikitin banned from the EU.



Nikitin's ADL file:

https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/denis-kapustin

Quote:

Denis Kapustin (also known as Denis Nikitin) is a Russian neo-Nazi who lived in Germany for many years. He has been involved in the Mixed Martial Arts (MMA ) scene in Europe and has trained young members of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany and others to fight. He also has ties to Azov, the Ukrainian extremist group. Since January 2021, Kapustin has co-hosted a podcast with Rise Above Movement leader Robert Rundo called Active Club Podcast.
Cal88
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golden sloth said:




More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."


So why did ethnic Russians just raid Belgorod (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe because ethnic Russians can see through Putin's lies and want no part of them.

The group that was part of the Belgorad raid using US/NATO equipment with support from the Ukrainian army was made up of Russian far right militias, part of a small fringe neo-nazi group, headed by Denis Nikitin who goes by the call name "White Rex". This group has been banned from Russia,.and its leader Nikitin banned from the EU.



Nikitin's ADL file:

https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/denis-kapustin

Quote:

Denis Kapustin (also known as Denis Nikitin) is a Russian neo-Nazi who lived in Germany for many years. He has been involved in the Mixed Martial Arts (MMA ) scene in Europe and has trained young members of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany and others to fight. He also has ties to Azov, the Ukrainian extremist group. Since January 2021, Kapustin has co-hosted a podcast with Rise Above Movement leader Robert Rundo called Active Club Podcast.

So you're admitting there are neo-Nazis in Russia? Maybe Putin should clean his own house before invading Ukraine.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."


So why did ethnic Russians just raid Belgorod (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe because ethnic Russians can see through Putin's lies and want no part of them.

The group that was part of the Belgorad raid using US/NATO equipment with support from the Ukrainian army was made up of Russian far right militias, part of a small fringe neo-nazi group, headed by Denis Nikitin who goes by the call name "White Rex". This group has been banned from Russia,.and its leader Nikitin banned from the EU.



Nikitin's ADL file:

https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/denis-kapustin

Quote:

Denis Kapustin (also known as Denis Nikitin) is a Russian neo-Nazi who lived in Germany for many years. He has been involved in the Mixed Martial Arts (MMA ) scene in Europe and has trained young members of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany and others to fight. He also has ties to Azov, the Ukrainian extremist group. Since January 2021, Kapustin has co-hosted a podcast with Rise Above Movement leader Robert Rundo called Active Club Podcast.

So you're admitting there are neo-Nazis in Russia? Maybe Putin should clean his own house before invading Ukraine.

You're a bit confused here, perhaps I wasn't very clear, but the Russian neo-nazis have been kicked out from Russia, and they are the ones fighting on the side of the Ukrainian army and NATO here, they have led the Belgorad incursion with NATO's support.

So now Ukraine's coalition includes both Isis and Russian neo-nazis...
movielover
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Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:




More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.


The Globalists / NATO / WEF backup plan is probably dividing up Ukraine. All these over educated frauds with nothing to do.

Colonel Douglass McGregor claims these miscreants planned to divide up Russia and all her wealth after deposing Putin.
golden sloth
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Mearsheimer explained that Russia was interested in taking over areas that have large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, lest they suffer from another "Donbas problem," where a civil war erupted between the aforementioned groups and ethnic Ukrainians.


He noted that Russia was motivated to avoid conquering areas populated by ethnic Ukrainians because "they will fight like wild dogs to resist the Russians, even if the Russian military wins on the battle field."


So why did ethnic Russians just raid Belgorod (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe because ethnic Russians can see through Putin's lies and want no part of them.

The group that was part of the Belgorad raid using US/NATO equipment with support from the Ukrainian army was made up of Russian far right militias, part of a small fringe neo-nazi group, headed by Denis Nikitin who goes by the call name "White Rex". This group has been banned from Russia,.and its leader Nikitin banned from the EU.



Nikitin's ADL file:

https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/denis-kapustin

Quote:

Denis Kapustin (also known as Denis Nikitin) is a Russian neo-Nazi who lived in Germany for many years. He has been involved in the Mixed Martial Arts (MMA ) scene in Europe and has trained young members of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany and others to fight. He also has ties to Azov, the Ukrainian extremist group. Since January 2021, Kapustin has co-hosted a podcast with Rise Above Movement leader Robert Rundo called Active Club Podcast.

So you're admitting there are neo-Nazis in Russia? Maybe Putin should clean his own house before invading Ukraine.

You're a bit confused here, perhaps I wasn't very clear, but the Russian neo-nazis have been kicked out from Russia, and they are the ones fighting on the side of the Ukrainian army and NATO here, they have led the Belgorad incursion with NATO's support.

So now Ukraine's coalition includes both Isis and Russian neo-nazis...


Yes, Ukraine really is the axis of all evil over the last 100 years. They must be wiped from the face of the earth as Lord Vladimir sayeth. Go with God Russia, and do the lord's work.
golden sloth
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movielover said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:




More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.


The Globalists / NATO / WEF backup plan is probably dividing up Ukraine. All these over educated frauds with nothing to do.

Colonel Douglass McGregor claims these miscreants planned to divide up Russia and all her wealth after deposing Putin.


Damn all those people with an education!
Eastern Oregon Bear
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golden sloth said:

movielover said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:




More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.


The Globalists / NATO / WEF backup plan is probably dividing up Ukraine. All these over educated frauds with nothing to do.

Colonel Douglass McGregor claims these miscreants planned to divide up Russia and all her wealth after deposing Putin.


Damn all those people with an education!
Hmmm... Who do I trust to analyze a complex military and geopolitical situation? Educated people or uneducated people?

Tough call.
Goldener Bar
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

golden sloth said:

movielover said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:

More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.
The Globalists / NATO / WEF backup plan is probably dividing up Ukraine. All these over educated frauds with nothing to do.

Colonel Douglass McGregor claims these miscreants planned to divide up Russia and all her wealth after deposing Putin.


Damn all those people with an education!
Hmmm... Who do I trust to analyze a complex military and geopolitical situation? Educated people or uneducated people?

Tough call.
Education level and trust are not related. Some very intelligent and well educated people are some of the worst liars ever.
dimitrig
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Goldener Bar said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

golden sloth said:

movielover said:

Cal88 said:

golden sloth said:

More status quo from the russian megaphones. Whatever you are doing wrong or bad or is negative about you, accuse your counterpart of the same. That causes people to tune out rather than think about it.

But I will not tune out, and will continue to support the US supporting Ukrainian independence for as long as Ukraine wants.

To the last Ukrainian.
The Globalists / NATO / WEF backup plan is probably dividing up Ukraine. All these over educated frauds with nothing to do.

Colonel Douglass McGregor claims these miscreants planned to divide up Russia and all her wealth after deposing Putin.


Damn all those people with an education!
Hmmm... Who do I trust to analyze a complex military and geopolitical situation? Educated people or uneducated people?

Tough call.
Education level and trust are not related. Some very intelligent and well educated people are some of the worst liars ever.


Like who?






movielover
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Forty woke Generals left Billions of dollars in Military goods in the Afghanistan pullout debacle.

Dunces, bribed, or spineless?
movielover
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Edit.
movielover
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A thread containing various footage of colorful, sad Ukrainian graves and large new cemeteries under construction. Several for Azov and Lvov (?) crews. Eleven pictures and clips.

Cal88
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Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder

Authored by Dave DeCamp via Antiwar.com

The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.

Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as "mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital."

Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.

One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. "Bakhmut will teach you," Yudin was told.

The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.

The men's accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.

The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn't want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.

Despite Kyiv's Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-sent-poor-untrained-men-bakhmut-meat-grinder
movielover
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Opps. More demerits for Obama / Hillary and Blinken.

The Panda (dragon) doesn't play.





movielover
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No bueno para NATO.

movielover
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Henry Kissinger.

dajo9
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movielover said:

Henry Kissinger.




Congratulations to you on being on Henry Kissinger's side. I'm always glad when I'm not on that warmonger's side.
movielover
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dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder

Authored by Dave DeCamp via Antiwar.com

The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.

Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as "mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital."

Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.

One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. "Bakhmut will teach you," Yudin was told.

The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.

The men's accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.

The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn't want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.

Despite Kyiv's Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-sent-poor-untrained-men-bakhmut-meat-grinder


Russia admits to sending 50,000 untrained prisoners into battle in this same article and that at least 10,000 of them died.

dimitrig
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dajo9 said:

movielover said:

Henry Kissinger.




Congratulations to you on being on Henry Kissinger's side. I'm always glad when I'm not on that warmonger's side.


The cheerleading for China and especially Iran is also telling.

movielover
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Not cheerleading; witnessing history and blowback to more Obama / Hillary / Blinken blunders.
dajo9
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movielover said:




I feel like maybe Kissinger did some other things but I just can't quite put my finger on it
BearHunter
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Looks like the NYT is transitioning from denial to acceptance.
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