The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

946,157 Views | 10324 Replies | Last: 4 hrs ago by BearGoggles
dimitrig
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It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



bearister
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…that's because he is still alive in it.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Goldener Bar
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tequila4kapp
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder

Authored by Dave DeCamp via Antiwar.com

The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.

Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as "mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital."

Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.

One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. "Bakhmut will teach you," Yudin was told.

The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.

The men's accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.

The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn't want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.

Despite Kyiv's Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-sent-poor-untrained-men-bakhmut-meat-grinde

Russia admits to sending 50,000 untrained prisoners into battle in this same article and that at least 10,000 of them died.
And they are offering expedited citizenship to Cuban military and their families if the Cuban fights in Ukraine for a year.
tequila4kapp
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BearHunter said:



Looks like the NYT is transitioning from denial to acceptance.
What a stupid article. Germany was officially two countries at that point. Ukraine is a single country under siege from an oppressor.
dimitrig
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tequila4kapp said:

dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder

Authored by Dave DeCamp via Antiwar.com

The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.

Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as "mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital."

Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.

One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. "Bakhmut will teach you," Yudin was told.

The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.

The men's accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.

The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn't want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.

Despite Kyiv's Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-sent-poor-untrained-men-bakhmut-meat-grinde

Russia admits to sending 50,000 untrained prisoners into battle in this same article and that at least 10,000 of them died.
And they are offering expedited citizenship to Cuban military and their families if the Cuban fights in Ukraine for a year.



I think we found a solution to our southern border problem. Fight in Ukraine for a year and your entire family gets amnesty whether you return or not.



BearHunter
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dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?
dajo9
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BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?


You're talking about the Bedtime for Bonzo actor
Cal88
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A few differences between these two actors, Reagan:

-was the governor or a large state before he was President

-did not dance half naked in stilleto heels and latex tights

-was not entirely created and promoted by a corrupt oligarch

-did not leverage his political position to accumulate a 9 figure fortune
Cal88
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dimitrig said:

tequila4kapp said:



And they are offering expedited citizenship to Cuban military and their families if the Cuban fights in Ukraine for a year.

I think we found a solution to our southern border problem. Fight in Ukraine for a year and your entire family gets amnesty whether you return or not.


To the last Ukrainian Mexican?
DiabloWags
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Did Merkel Pave the Way for the War in Ukraine?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-merkel-pave-the-way-for-the-war-in-ukraine-4abef297
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
movielover
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Cal88 said:

A few differences between these two actors, Reagan:

-was the governor or a large state before he was President

-did not dance half naked in stilleto heels and latex tights

-was not entirely created and promoted by a corrupt oligarch

-did not leverage his political position to accumulate a 9 figure fortune


- spoke the native language
Goldener Bar
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BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?

tequila4kapp
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BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?
(personal moment: queue the "I'm happy I'm not a Republican anymore" line)

The America First crowd is really really missing the boat on this one. If you believe Putin when he says he wants to reunify the old USSR then connect the dots. We can either support Ukraine with military aid (only) now or let this go but then be legally obligated to support NATO members when they are inevitably invaded - and that obligation will likely involve American boots on the ground. So money now or money and dead Americans later…this is the easiest choice ever.
oski003
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tequila4kapp said:

BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?
(personal moment: queue the "I'm happy I'm not a Republican anymore" line)

The America First crowd is really really missing the boat on this one. If you believe Putin when he says he wants to reunify the old USSR then connect the dots. We can either support Ukraine with military aid (only) now or let this go but then be legally obligated to support NATO members when they are inevitably invaded - and that obligation will likely involve American boots on the ground. So money now or money and dead Americans later…this is the easiest choice ever.

Or, we help broker a peace (as opposed to preventing such) that allows Russia to keep Crimea and allow autonomy in the Donbass. If Russia violates this treaty, which you claim is inevitable, the world brings the hammer.
tequila4kapp
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oski003 said:

tequila4kapp said:

BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?
(personal moment: queue the "I'm happy I'm not a Republican anymore" line)

The America First crowd is really really missing the boat on this one. If you believe Putin when he says he wants to reunify the old USSR then connect the dots. We can either support Ukraine with military aid (only) now or let this go but then be legally obligated to support NATO members when they are inevitably invaded - and that obligation will likely involve American boots on the ground. So money now or money and dead Americans later…this is the easiest choice ever.

Or, we help broker a peace (as opposed to preventing such) that allows Russia to keep Crimea and allow autonomy in the Donbass. If Russia violates this treaty, which you claim is inevitable, the world brings the hammer.
IMO that ship has sailed. This is Hitler and Chamberlain, round 2. Russia got its free pass with Crimea and took the world's turning a blind eye as a sign of weakness which emboldened them to invade Ukraine proper. NOW is the time for the World to bring the hammer…and it is being incredibly restrained in not putting boots on the ground or allowing Ukraine to attack inside Russian territory.
dajo9
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Goldener Bar said:

BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?




Pretty sure Ozzy would target that song at both sides and not just the U.S. / Ukraine side. Try again.
oski003
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Hitler's Non-Aggression Pact with Poland
One of Adolf Hitler's first major foreign policy initiatives after coming to power in 1933 was to sign a non-aggression pact with Poland in January 1934. This move was unpopular with many Germans who supported Hitler but resented the fact that Poland had received the former German provinces of West Prussia, Poznan (Pozna), and Upper Silesia after World War I under the Treaty of Versailles. However, Hitler sought the non-aggression pact in order to neutralize the possibility of a French-Polish military alliance against Germany before Germany had a chance to rearm in the aftermath of the Great War.

Appeasement in Europe
In the mid- and late-1930s, France and especially Great Britain followed a foreign policy of appeasement. In fact, the policy of appeasement was closely associated with British prime minister Neville Chamberlain. The objective of this policy was to maintain peace in Europe by making limited concessions to German demands. In Britain, public opinion tended to favor some revision of the territorial and military provisions of the Versailles treaty. Moreover, neither Britain nor France felt militarily prepared to fight a war against Nazi Germany.


INVASION OF POLAND, FALL 1939
German troops invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, triggering World War II. In response to German aggression, Great Britain and France declared war on Nazi Germany.

KEY FACTS
1
Nazi Germany possessed overwhelming military superiority over Poland. The assault on Poland demonstrated Germany's ability to combine air power and armor in a new kind of mobile warfare.

2
On September 17, 1939, the Soviet Union invaded eastern Poland, sealing Poland's fate. The last operational Polish unit surrendered on October 6.

3
After Poland's defeat in early October 1939, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union divided the country in accordance with a secret protocol to the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact.

More information about this image
CITE SHARE PRINT
TAGSWorld War II warning signs invasion of Poland German-Soviet Pact military campaigns Axis alliance Poland
LANGUAGE English
Hitler's Non-Aggression Pact with Poland
One of Adolf Hitler's first major foreign policy initiatives after coming to power in 1933 was to sign a non-aggression pact with Poland in January 1934. This move was unpopular with many Germans who supported Hitler but resented the fact that Poland had received the former German provinces of West Prussia, Poznan (Pozna), and Upper Silesia after World War I under the Treaty of Versailles. However, Hitler sought the non-aggression pact in order to neutralize the possibility of a French-Polish military alliance against Germany before Germany had a chance to rearm in the aftermath of the Great War.

Appeasement in Europe
In the mid- and late-1930s, France and especially Great Britain followed a foreign policy of appeasement. In fact, the policy of appeasement was closely associated with British prime minister Neville Chamberlain. The objective of this policy was to maintain peace in Europe by making limited concessions to German demands. In Britain, public opinion tended to favor some revision of the territorial and military provisions of the Versailles treaty. Moreover, neither Britain nor France felt militarily prepared to fight a war against Nazi Germany.

German gains, 1936-1938 [LCID: ger76180]
German gains, 1936-1938
US Holocaust Memorial Museum

Britain and France essentially acquiesced as Nazi Germany

revoked the Versailles treaty's limitations on its military (1935);
remilitarized the Rhineland (1936);
and annexed Austria (March 1938).
In response to Hitler's threat to wage war against Czechoslovakia, British and French leaders signed the Munich Agreement in September 1938. This agreement ceded to Germany the Czech border region known as the Sudetenland View This Term in the Glossary in return for Hitler's promise to resolve all future conflicts peacefully.

Despite Hitler's promise at Munich and Anglo-French guarantees to defend Czechoslovakia, the Germans dismantled the Czechoslovak state in March 1939. Britain and France responded by guaranteeing the integrity of the Polish state. This did not deter Hitler, who was determined not to be dissuaded from war by either threats or concessions. On April 28, 1939, he announced Germany's withdrawal from the non-aggression pact signed with Poland just over five years earlier. Hitler went on to negotiate a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union in August 1939. The German-Soviet Pact, which secretly provided for Poland to be partitioned between the two powers, enabled Germany to attack Poland without the fear of Soviet intervention.

Invasion and Partition of Poland
On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland. They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany. The SS, in collusion with the German military, staged a phony attack on a German radio station. The Germans falsely accused the Poles of this attack. Hitler then used the action to launch a "retaliatory" campaign against Poland.

Germany launched the unprovoked attack at dawn on September 1, 1939, with an advance force consisting of more than 2,000 tanks supported by nearly 900 bombers and over 400 fighter planes. In all, Germany deployed 60 divisions and nearly 1.5 million men in the invasion. From East Prussia and Germany in the north, and Silesia and Slovakia in the south, German units quickly broke through Polish defenses along the border and advanced on Warsaw in a massive encirclement attack.

Poland mobilized late, and political considerations forced its army into a disadvantageous deployment. The Polish army also lacked modern arms and equipment, had few armored and motorized units, and could deploy little more than 300 planes, most of which the Luftwaffe destroyed in the first few days of the invasion. Despite fighting tenaciously and inflicting serious casualties on the Germans, the Polish army was defeated within weeks. The world adopted a new term to describe Germany's successful war tactic: Blitzkrieg, or "lightning war." The tactic consisted of staging a surprise attack with massive, concentrated forces of fast-moving armored units supported by overwhelming air power.

Britain and France stood by their guarantee of Poland's border and declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939. However, Poland found itself fighting a two front war when the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east on September 17. The Polish government fled the country that same day.

After heavy shelling and bombing, Warsaw officially surrendered to the Germans on September 28, 1939.

In accordance with the secret protocol to their non-aggression pact, Germany and the Soviet Union partitioned Poland on September 29, 1939. The demarcation line was along the Bug River.

The last resistance of Polish units ended on October 6.

The German Occupation of Poland
In October 1939, Germany directly annexed former Polish territories along Germany's eastern border: West Prussia, Poznan (Pozna), Upper Silesia, and the former Free City of Danzig. The remainder of German-occupied Polandincluding the cities of Warsaw, Krakow (Krakw), Radom, and Lublinwas organized as the so-called Generalgouvernement (General Government)under a civilian governor general, the Nazi Party lawyer Hans Frank.

In June 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Soviet-occupied eastern Poland as part of its attack on the Soviet Union. Eventually, Nazi Germany occupied all of prewar Poland. The German occupation of Poland came to an end as the Soviet Red Army View This Term in the Glossary forced the German military to retreat through the country towards Berlin in 1944 and early 1945.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Cal88 said:

A few differences between these two actors, Reagan:

-was the governor or a large state before he was President
The more modern actor was following the path that Trump also used.
Quote:

-did not dance half naked in stilleto heels and latex tights
What happens in Bohemian Grove, stays in Bohemian Grove.
Quote:

-was not entirely created and promoted by a corrupt oligarch
Reagan was created by a group of rich and corrupt Orange County Republican oligarchs.
Quote:

-did not leverage his political position to accumulate a 9 figure fortune
Yeah, Reagan probably had an 8 figure fortune but money was worth more back then. It's not like his B movie roles were all that lucrative. Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if Reagan was worth 9 figures though.
Cal88
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If Reagan had skimmed $100 million from state diesel fuel deals, you would have known about it.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Cal88 said:

If Reagan had skimmed $100 million from state diesel fuel deals, you would have known about it.
There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.
AunBear89
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The Gipper probably would have questions about your fondness for this guy:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

If Reagan had skimmed $100 million from state diesel fuel deals, you would have known about it.


Reagan had the most scandal ridden administration ever. Things the corporate news does not tell you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals
Cal88
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^ Not particularly fond of Charlie there,

Quote:

There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.

Yes indeed, the Clintons perfected that, you don't get to cover your daughter's $3 million wedding on a POTUS salary.
Big C
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Reminds me of a Ukraine story...

In the '90s, my Ukrainian friends (recent refugees) didn't have much good to say about the Ukrainian president, but when the next election rolled around, they said they would vote for him. I found that curious, but they explained: "In our country, we usually vote to reelect our leaders. We figure they use their first term to enrich themselves, but maybe after that, they might actually do what's best for the country."
movielover
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

If Reagan had skimmed $100 million from state diesel fuel deals, you would have known about it.
There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.


As the Pelosi, McConnell, Biden & Newsom Families have proven.
Goldener Bar
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dajo9 said:

Goldener Bar said:

BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?


Pretty sure Ozzy would target that song at both sides and not just the U.S. / Ukraine side. Try again.
I 100% support that.
dajo9
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Goldener Bar said:

dajo9 said:

Goldener Bar said:

BearHunter said:

dimitrig said:


It's really bizarre to see all these right wing nut jobs cheer on Russia. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.



Would the Gipper roll over if he saw this?


Pretty sure Ozzy would target that song at both sides and not just the U.S. / Ukraine side. Try again.
I 100% support that.


Ok, but that's not what you posted
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Cal88 said:

^ Not particularly fond of Charlie there,

Quote:

There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.

Yes indeed, the Clintons perfected that, you don't get to cover your daughter's $3 million wedding on a POTUS salary.
I never claimed that only Republicans enriched themselves. I was just pointing out that Reagan was also wealthier than governor and presidential salaries would lead to.
dajo9
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

^ Not particularly fond of Charlie there,

Quote:

There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.

Yes indeed, the Clintons perfected that, you don't get to cover your daughter's $3 million wedding on a POTUS salary.
I never claimed that only Republicans enriched themselves. I was just pointing out that Reagan was also wealthier than governor and presidential salaries would lead to.


IOKIYAR
Cal88
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

^ Not particularly fond of Charlie there,

Quote:

There are far more ways to capitalize on your political power than just skimming money from diesel fuel deals.

Yes indeed, the Clintons perfected that, you don't get to cover your daughter's $3 million wedding on a POTUS salary.
I never claimed that only Republicans enriched themselves. I was just pointing out that Reagan was also wealthier than governor and presidential salaries would lead to.

Reagan's fortune consisted almost entirely of SoCal real estate they bought in the 1970s, mostly a 700 acre ranch north of Santa Barbara, which they bought in 1974, back when rural acreage was dirt cheap in CA, and sold in 96 to acquire their Bel Air mansion in 98.

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/reagans/ronald-reagan/residences-ronald-w-reagan

I would guess that their ranch must have gone for around $100,000 in 74, several million dollars in the late 90s, and would be worth around $20M today.
movielover
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Cal88
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Ukraine is losing 10,000 drones a month to Russian electronic-warfare systems that send fake signals and screw with their navigation, researchers say

  • A new report estimates Ukraine is losing roughly 10,000 drones every month.
  • A sophisticated electronic-warfare system is among Russia's biggest strengths, researchers said.
  • Ukraine "has the initiative" but Russia's army should not be written off, they added.
  • In the early months of the Russia-Ukraine war, Bayraktar TB2 drones were hailed as Ukraine's savior.
  • However, a year later, nearly all of them are believed to have been shot down by Russian forces.

In the early months of the Russia-Ukraine war, Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 drones were hailed as Ukraine's savior and the future of warfare. Multiple reports and videos surfaced of Ukraine using the weapons to strike Russian tanks, armor, and patrol boats. Their popularity even inspired a viral folk song.

However, a little over a year later, the once-prized drones have almost entirely been shot down, and those that remain reduced to reconnaissance duties, according to an expert.

"Electronic warfare is a "critical component" of Russia's tactics and contributing to the staggering losses of Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known as drones, a report released Friday by the UK's Royal United Services Institute found.

The figures which amount to more than 300 drones a day were attributed to three unnamed Ukrainian officers interviewed in April and May.

The report did not specify which models comprised the claimed losses or in what proportion, but James Patton Rogers, a University of Southern Denmark war-studies professor and drone expert, told Insider the majority of those being lost were relatively cheap, small commercial drones used for surveillance. "


https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-losing-10000-drones-month-russia-electronic-warfare-rusi-report-2023-5

https://www.businessinsider.com/turkeys-bayraktar-tb2-drones-ineffective-ukraine-war-2023-5
Goldener Bar
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movielover
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Which explains why the 50,000 drone attack on Russia hasn't happened. Colonel McGregor says these new technologies emerge, and then the opponent adapts.

Tweet ranking countries by number of engineering degrees produced. Russia and China produce about 450,000 per year, and Iran #5. And how many American degrees go to Chinese, Indian, or Persian nationals?

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